i love the rr. if i had the money, id have one. i would rather have one than an s2k anyday. my next car will probably be an s2k though, for the fact i can afford a used one soon.
i love the rr. if i had the money, id have one. i would rather have one than an s2k anyday. my next car will probably be an s2k though, for the fact i can afford a used one soon.
GCO Member
NRA Member
Most people on this site don't ever look up what they post and end up starting a train of false info.Originally Posted by alpine_xj
On the other hand there are Mugen people on this site that, well, i can say they are fans for the wrong reason but they don't know all that much about the company outside of street gear. You know, the ones left over form the JDM craze. I know NAIZBST is an exception to this and prolly knows more than me.
I keep an open eye toward every car and let it prove itself for what it is.
oh...btw.....Lets not forget that car was made for Japan and will never come to the U.S.A. That decision was obviously made by some business person that knew these cars would sell.
I do not think it's worth 60k, nor 40k which is what it sold for. But what most people don't understand is that this isn't a modified economy Civic like what we can get at the dealer. But rather a modified Civic Type R, which already holds a much higher price tag than even an Si. Add rarity and the Mugen badge and of course it'll sell. I wouldn't buy it, but it's still a great car.
Yea I think I'm starting to have a lot of unfounded bias against most JDM companies because of the new JDM fanboy craze. I just don't see the point in dropping unnecessary amounts of money on JDM parts that can be bought for half the price from companies who are trying to establish themselves, and are just as effective. But I prefer cars that aren't **** when you get them, but have massive amounts of potential. I just have that builder's mentality. So even if I could afford an RR and by some miracle could get my hands on one, I'd rather take the 45k and go build up a teg and an mk2 Gti. I respect the cars, but ones like this aren't for me.
Mugen is not just a tuner.
Mugen has a manufactures license. This is on the same level as a RUF, Saleen, Roush, Alpine, AMG, and every other established company that started out small and became a large company. If we travel back in time, Honda was racing at the Isle of Mann before they were making economy cars.
One last thing.
Buddy, that craze began in 2002ish and fazed out in 2006. Or...maybe i just see it that way.
From everything I've seen I would say it's alive and well.
The tuner world exists outside of what you read in mags and what shows up at the Varsity. But things in the car scene usually work the same way they work with everything.
I remember when drifting began. I'm talking about the period 2 to 3 years before Tokyo drift. Back when you didn't get laughed at for being a drifter. Then, the mainstream finds out and it becomes lame.
I admit when drifting kind of started I was a HUGE fan, but it started getting HUGE and I lost interest. Not just because it got big but because of some of the people it brought with it.
I remember being at all the turner field events. I think Batlground had yet to build the orange 240s. It was that silver one Dan was tossing around. OH and Andy with the BMW with no sponcers what so ever.
Those were the days.
^EXACTLY. I actually have loads of video from then I put on DVD at the time I was like sixteen then. I remember the grey Batlground car for sure, I was a HUGE Andy Sapp fan, the white Miata I think that's Doppenlanger or w/e, good stuff for sure!
yeah yeah yeah....how could i forget droptopdrift.....the one with the red rotas.
Hipsi was also very impressive back when he had the sr in there and Tiger Racing were still "local"
The problem is that we're all looking at it from different perspectives.
Some think its a street car that someone may drive and show off (like the GTR now)
Other think its a race-only track car.
Most of us here only care about road applications. From that perspective, this car is absolute trash.
It may be a FWD track star but no hardly anyone here is qualified to comment on that car from that perspective.
Driving pleasure and dynamics isnt something you can put a price tag on easily so hell maybe it is worth 70k, who knows.
To me its a 70k civic - hell no I'm not buying one.
But heck they're all sold, so case closed.
Good times!
And why can't we comment on it from a track star prospective? Also how is it trash for street??
Guess what? I can name many respected magazines that will disagree with you and these mags only care about the car on how it does on the street.
Damn you were fast - edited before I saw your post lol
Oh come on now, you're not gonna tell me you'd actually drive that thing on the street?
Ok maybe "trash" was a bad word. What I meant is that DDing this car is monetary suicide.
The car may be wonderful - but good luck maintaining that car without super deep pockets! 70k is only the tip of the iceberg. That's an ultra high end low production number car you're talking about.
And why not?.....it is in fact a STREET car. It is road legal in Japan. The exact market it was made for. Not the on in the U.S.
WHY ELSE DOES HONDA NOT GIVE US A STANDARD TYPE R MUCH LESS A MUGEN?
You own a Z06 over here so you don't have to worry about a couple things.
Just think about what a person in Japan would have to consider between buying
a car with a 2.0L vs on that will be heavily heavily taxed on its displacement.
And i have already stated that it is not $70 grand.
British magazine EVO: And why the RR got a 5/5 star rating from the best automotive magazine in the world.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS!!!
My first sight of the rarest and probably most desirable Honda Civic on the planet is a flash of blood-red paint and a glint of black wheel spokes a couple of hundred yards away. Even at this range I know it’s the real thing, and up close the Mugen RR is even more striking.
Its owner, Waqar Ahmed, hops out and we shake hands. The driver of the car that followed the Mugen into the lay-by has joined us on the pavement and I shake his hand too. I assume he’s a friend of Waqar’s. Waqar thinks he’s a friend of mine. Turns out he’s a stranger to both of us; he’s simply a Honda enthusiast who wants to know if the car is for sale!
‘It’s mental,’ says Waqar, who collected the car from import specialists Performance Centre Manchester just a few days ago. ‘Everywhere you stop you end up surrounded by people.’ That’s testimony to three things: the irresistible, ground-skimming stance of this limited edition Civic, the desirability of cars that marry the Honda and Mugen names, and the power of the internet.The Civic Mugen RR (be cool and say ‘double R’ rather than sounding like a pirate) went on sale in Japan last September and all 300 examples were snapped up in just ten minutes. This is the only example in the UK and is likely to remain so, as back home RRs are now changing hands at a premium, which is quite something, because while the standard Japanese-market Civic Type-R costs 2.8m yen, this Mugen was 4.8m yen.
That’s quite a hike – about £8K – for what appears, as first glance, to be a gentle massaging of the already impressive JDM Civic Type-R. The more you delve, however, the more thorough you discover the rework has been and the more plausible Mugen’s claim to have built the ultimate front-drive car becomes.
Mugen is well known for offering tuning and styling parts for Hondas, but everything on the RR is unique and will not be on sale separately. Take a chunk out of one of the 18in, seven-spoke forged alloy wheels and you’ll have to prove you own an RR to get another. Ditto the restyled front and rear bumper aprons, which are fashioned from carbonfibre, the vented bonnet in aluminium and the new rear spoiler, also carbon, with additional Gurney flap.
Despite such lightweight parts, to which you can add the carbonfibre-shelled Recaro bucket seats inside, Mugen claims the RR is just 10kg lighter than the cooking Type-R, demonstrating how lean that car already is. You won’t find a substantial power uplift either. In concept form, the RR was said to have a 256bhp, 2.2-litre version of the much-lauded K20A engine, but the production version sticks with the original 2 litres. Mind, with 237bhp it does produce more power than the stock 222bhp unit, thanks to new cams, a tailor-made 4-3-1 exhaust with high-flow catalysts, and a fat tail-pipe either side of the impressive rear diffuser.
Now, we’re big fans of the Japanese-market Civic Type-R, with its 9000rpm in-line four, limited-slip diff and road-legal grooved slicks. The Mugen sets out to be even more focused, but the cynical side of me imagines this being like the difference between a four-blade and a five-blade disposable razor, i.e. largely imagined. However, the Mugen is said to be measurably faster around the Tsukuba circuit in Japan so, with Waqar’s consent, we’re going to see if it can show the same on the West Circuit at the Bedford Autodrome.
First, though, we’re going to find out what the Mugen feels like on the road. Climbing into the lairy red-and-black interior I find the seat is a snug fit across the back even for me, and I’m pretty slim. Above the slot for the radio sits a trio of auxiliary dials, while down on the centre console is a small, simple, aluminium plate lightly embossed with the number 178.
Twist the key, push the red button and, as in the stock Type-R, the 16-valve in-line four fires and settles to an idle that’s light, smooth and rather timid. The short-throw Mugen shift feels wristily notchy and stroking along gently there’s still no hint that the engine has another side. Immediately attention-grabbing on these B-roads is the firmness of the ride. It feels a fraction stiffer than the already tough standard set-up and the RR looks lowered too, though that might be an effect of the lower-slung sills. Certainly it’s a resilient chassis, but while the ride is very tightly controlled it’s never crashy.
The steering is surprisingly light and tugs gently as the Bridgestone RE070s’ large tread-blocks find bumps and cambers, but instantly impressive is the feel of the brake pedal; Mugen has fitted its own grooved discs and braided hoses to the Brembo system and there’s instant, progressive power from the very top of the travel. It’s among the best I’ve ever felt.
Torque is thin down low but that suddenly seems of no consequence as the tacho needle swings through 6000rpm. The note gains weight, the shove in the back hardens to a punch and the whole car seems to pull into focus. Peak power is quoted at 8000rpm but this engine seems to deliver useful urge right up to the limiter, a gnat’s short of 9000rpm. As ever, it’s an engine you have to keep on the boil – it’s still odd to be tacking through a series of unsighted bends at a frantic 6500rpm in second, waiting to nail it when the road opens out.
There are, of course, no such problems at the Bedford Autodrome. I can’t detect much difference between the RR and the Type-R, except that the Mugen feels a bit stiffer, so I’m not expecting to see the Type-R’s 1:31.0 beaten. However, despite feeling a fraction less adjustable and as though its front end is dealing with just about as much power and torque as it can, it takes just a couple of laps for the RR to get down to that time.
The Mugen has only around 500 miles on the clock, but so did the regular Type-R we tested around the new West Circuit a couple of issues ago, so it’s all even. After a couple of laps to cool it down we go for it again and the RR pulls out a 1:29.3. Amazing. Analysing the traces of both cars, the Mugen attains fractionally higher speeds but gains most by carrying more speed into the fastest corners at the end of the lap.
Is the Mugen RR the ultimate front-drive car, then? On lap times, I suspect it has laid down a marker that will stand for a very long time, and making the Civic faster on track was one of Mugen’s objectives, so it’s job done, then. Personally, I prefer the feel of the slightly more compliant regular car on both road and track, but there’s no question, as an object of desire the Mugen RR is untouchable.
Good post EJ and good read!
Wow you're not kidding. They pay taxes based on displacement!
Thought I'd share this about Mugen:
"...Mugen is owned and run by Hirotoshi Honda - the son of Honda founder Soichiro Honda - who has been the major shareholder in Honda since his father's death.
Mugen was founded in 1973 by Hirotoshi Honda and Masao Kimura (who is now managing director). Its purpose was to design and develop racing engines for sale and to develop engines and parts for Honda road cars.
The company has a strong racing heritage as Hirotoshi Honda began building his own racing car in a workshop at his house, shortly before he graduated from Nihon University in 1965. Kimura is a veteran of more than 50 race victories in Honda sportscars and single-seaters and worked for Honda R&D and then Honda Racing Service before he helped Hirotoshi establish Mugen."
Unbiased and tells it like it is. Compare that to if Super Street was writing about this car.
The guy says the car accomplishes what it was designed to do. It is worse on the street than the standard type R which is already fantastic and hard to improve upon both on the track and B roads. But it does pull itself as a better car to attack a corner and if much more of an experience to own as the car will get many looks and that is a big factor for some people. Me included.
You know you are accomplished when it is Mugen that is given the right to build the Supergt race engines vs Honda's very own in house HRC. They also handled F1 duties after Honda left in 1992. They are simply the most accomplished race engineers outside of the actual manufactures like TRD, NISMO, and HRC.
I personally am a FWD enthusiast, I dont know why I just like them. Its easy to go fast with turbos and awd. The cars are more about being as fast a possible from being smooth. The amount of R&D is just amazing, I would LOVE to have a Mugen SI, $30k or not. This car was built to show what Mugen can do with a fwd, this car deserves mad respect. It makes the same power as the s2k, but it makes more torque. Its a 2.0, thats remarkable that they can produce "more power" reliably than the "god sent" F series and for a daily drive-able car.
Honestly this would be the car to have if you had children and was still active in spirited driving. Its the perfect balance in speed, reliability, and economy. I personally like how it looks in all aspects.
EJ, doesnt come in here to put anyone down, he is one of the few that is passionate about motorsport and corrects misinformation.
Last edited by josh green; 09-30-2008 at 07:43 AM.
Thanx man.
looked REALLY bumpy in there. but id drive it
Agreed 100%. I think he spends 20/24 hours in a day researching things no one knows just to show off on IA
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