Will the plane take off? v. Mythbusters!!! (VIDEO on Page 38)

[Nittanys1]

ohh it will only get bigger!

[BABY J]

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35967427&postcount=562

[Ruiner]

Back when I had my 911 turbo, I put that up as a bet. NOBODY took it.

What concerns me is that almost half of IA.com are not the brightest. This isn't a hard question, people.

Here is another one:

If a plane is on an indefinitely slippery surface, will it take off? What if that slippery surface is moving? Will it still take off?

[magneto198]

sounds cool, ill watch

[speedminded]

This just in...

The episode, which airs in December, finds Savage and Hyneman tackling a question baffling everyone from bloggers to pilots: If a plane is traveling at takeoff speed on a conveyor belt, and that conveyor belt is matching the speed in reverse, can the plane take off?

``We put the plane on a quarter-mile conveyor belt and tested it out,'' says Savage about the experiment using a pilot and his Ultralight plane. ``I won't tell you what the outcome was, but the pilot and his entire flight club got it wrong.''

[VooDooXII]

If a plane is on an indefinitely slippery surface, will it take off? What if that slippery surface is moving? Will it still take off?

Same concept...because the component responsible for propelling the plane forward is not in contact with the surface it's moving along. It'd be the same as if the plane was hovering.

[BKgen®]

lol this is gonna be the highest rated mythbusters ever. There are gonna be so many ppl watchin this sh*t.

[Wurm]

no that it wont take off ruiner. In theory it should take off but i dont trust human error

[Ruiner]

This just in...

The episode, which airs in December, finds Savage and Hyneman tackling a question baffling everyone from bloggers to pilots: If a plane is traveling at takeoff speed on a conveyor belt, and that conveyor belt is matching the speed in reverse, can the plane take off?

``We put the plane on a quarter-mile conveyor belt and tested it out,'' says Savage about the experiment using a pilot and his Ultralight plane. ``I won't tell you what the outcome was, but the pilot and his entire flight club got it wrong.''

I'm going to bet that they all thought that it "wouldn't" take off. Ahahahha

URL link to this?

[Ruiner]

no that it wont take off ruiner. In theory it should take off but i dont trust human error

Human error? Listen, if someone TRULY knows that it should take off (which it will), then Mythbusters will not get it wrong. I assure you on this. However, good luck!

[speedminded]

I'm going to bet that they all thought that it "wouldn't" take off. Ahahahha

URL link to this?From their local paper... http://www.mercurynews.com/food/ci_7320206?nclick_check=1 (The article is a month old)

[Clegger]

^sign in?

[Jaimecbr900]

My answer is that IF the plane creates enough thrust to overcome the conveyor and get the plane moving forward, then it should fly. IF the conveyor is at a constant speed, then it should be easier for the plane to overcome with enough thrust. IF the conveyor adjusts speed up in accordance to the amount of thrust, then the plane can't move forward and therefore it won't be able to fly.


Too many "IF's", but that's my take on it. :goodjob:

Are we gonna do wings and beer somewhere so the winners can gloat? :D

[speedminded]

My answer is that IF the plane creates enough thrust to overcome the conveyor and get the plane moving forward, then it should fly. IF the conveyor is at a constant speed, then it should be easier for the plane to overcome with enough thrust. IF the conveyor adjusts speed up in accordance to the amount of thrust, then the plane can't move forward and therefore it won't be able to fly.


Too many "IF's", but that's my take on it. :goodjob:

Are we gonna do wings and beer somewhere so the winners can gloat? :DIf you tied a rope to the front of the ultralight and stood on either side of the conveyor belt your hand alone could easily overcome the conveyor with virtually no effort ;)

[BKgen®]

lol, i realize this. Trust me, growing up as a pilot's son, the last thing i need is a lesson about aerodynamics.

here's how the actual problem is worded:


Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?



Notice it says that the conveyor belt is the same size as a typical runway. SO, we know that if the plane were to move forward, there would be plenty of room for it to take off.

Now, i realize that you guys are saying the wheels will roll as the conveyor belt passes by. Well i'm not sure what kind of planes you guys are talking about, but i've never seen one powered by its wheels lol, so the wheels don't matter.

In that case, whether its a moving conveyor belt or a stationary runway, the jet's engines (or the plane's props) will push the plane forward at normal speed as if it were on a regular runway, causing it to get air under its wings.

kthxbye


quoted so i can say i told ya so :D

[Jaimecbr900]

If you tied a rope to the front of the ultralight and stood on either side of the conveyor belt your hand alone could easily overcome the conveyor with virtually no effort ;)

If that's so, then it's going to take off. :goodjob:

[Psycho]

I think the plane is going to move forward on the treadmill just like it would on regular tarmac. The plane isn't going to sit still just because the wheels are moving backward.

[Psycho]

quoted so i can say i told ya so :D
Oh, you already said what I just did.

All that effort for nothing.

[Ruiner]

A. Today is the day, bitches!

B. I created a nice drawing for some of you who might be confused about the rotation of the wheels... The wheels spin the same way! How is that going to hold the plane back?

http://i11.tinypic.com/8evgx6r.jpg

[bigdare23]

I really sat down for 30mins using my Mechanic Engineering knowledge to explain why it would take off.

But my post just got kicked to the side


{shakes head} I give up.

[Ruiner]

1.5hrs til it all goes down! Granted, they'll probably save this one for the end of the ****ing show. :(

9pm on Discovery, fewls! Mythbusters bitches! :)

[Julio]

About ****ing time.

[Ruiner]

About ****ing time.

You are damn right. I hope to see 43 people proven wrong...

[Ruiner]

~30 ****ing minutes...oh fawk yes!

[speedminded]

Why didn't anyone bet me?!

[Johnny Chimpo]

WTF its not in the show.

[Ruiner]

WTF its not in the show.

Just 'cause it isn't in the preview...

http://mythbusters-wiki.discovery.com/page/Episode+94%3A+Air+Plane+Hour

[Nittanys1]

i was wondering the same thing...maybe they will throw a quick answer out there...

[Jaimecbr900]

It doesn't look like it's going to be on tonight's show afterall. I bet I could land that plane though.....:D

[speedminded]

WTF! There is no way they can do it in 9 minutes can they?!

[On_Her_Face]

very very doubtful

[Jimmy B]

make a new poll, can they doo it in 9 min?


lol.... i was looking forward to it too

[On_Her_Face]

lol

[Nittanys1]

myth busted...........

[Jimmy B]

oh well.. mabye next time 43+ people will be proven wrong

[Nittanys1]

lol...when will that be?

[speedminded]

Somebody's gonna fly a plane into the discovery channel headquarters.

[Jaimecbr900]

Somebody's gonna fly a plane into the discovery channel headquarters.

That took off from a long long conveyor belt.....:lmfao: :D

[mocha latte cupcake]

so since i didn't waste the time watching this did it take off yes or no?

[Jimmy B]

That took off from a long long conveyor belt.....:lmfao: :D

jamie, lol +1 hahaah

[Ruiner]

Just so that everyone can see that I didn't make this up....

I did a screen shot from the Discovery.com website showing what is coming on:

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=1.13056.24704.3913.x

http://i4.tinypic.com/6lxngg7.jpg

[BABY J]

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9401967776/m/5841963149

[Ruiner]

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9401967776/m/5841963149

Oh yeah. The OT forum is RAPING them a new one. We have close to 600 members in that OT thread and people are LIVID!

[Fast Shadow]

god, people on the discovery.com mythbusters forum are freaking out over the fact plane on a treadmill didn't air. I mean they're really freaking out. I'm going for a ride in the roflcopter

[Fast Shadow]

I hear that myth was cut because it's being made into a pay per view event. $19.99 to find out if the plane takes off.

[Ruiner]

I think that the internet might just implode any minute now...

[Fast Shadow]

ok, for serious i just heard that the treadmill episode is going to be january 30 because they're going to do the whole show about it. my info comes from someone who knows the show producers.

[Ruiner]

ok, for serious i just heard that the treadmill episode is going to be january 30 because they're going to do the whole show about it. my info comes from someone who knows the show producers.

Actually, that very same info was posted on their fan site. I'll believe it when I see it. Either way, they ****ed up. Discovery.com STILL has it in the show's description.

[Vteckidd]

HAHAHA

Worst thing to happen since the Holocaust. May even be worse. Congrats Discovery. You have perpetrated the Treadmealacaust.

[Ruiner]

HAHAHA

Worst thing to happen since the Holocaust. May even be worse. Congrats Discovery. You have perpetrated the Treadmealacaust.

Yeah, OTers have a way with words...

[Vteckidd]

that has to be the FUNNIEST thread i have seen in YEARS

[Vteckidd]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/gti1311/holyfail.jpg

[Vteckidd]

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj69/sqwurl98/Failboat.jpg

[Autofab]

WTF mate.....!

[On_Her_Face]

:(

[ThaABomb]

As an aerospace engineering student, here's my two cents:


As has been said before, no power is supplied to the wheels of an aircraft, it is propelled by either a propeller or a jet. The conveyor belt supplies a force backwards. If that is the only outside force involved, the plane will be stationary relative to the conveyor belt and will be moving backwards through the air. If the aircraft's propulsion supplies a force in the forward direction, the backward speed of the conveyor belt can be cancelled out with the forward speed of the aircraft. In this case, the conveyor belt will be moving past the airplane at takeoff speed but the speed of the air over the wings will be 0, which means the lift will be 0, so the plane will not take off.

[speedminded]

I'd laugh my ass off if they aired in on January 26th :tongue:

Dear all,

As wbarnhill called out, I thought I should step in to what is rapidly becoming a hornet's nest. I will try to calm things down but I don't hold out much hope!

First up, for those concerned that this story has been cancelled, don't worry, planes on a conveyer belt has been filmed, is spectacular, and will be part of what us Mythbusters refer to as 'episode 97'. Currently that is due to air on January 30th.

Secondly, for those very aggrieved fans feeling "duped" into watching tonight's show, I can only apologise. I'm not sure why the listings / internet advertised that tonight's show contained POCB. I will endeavour to find out an answer but for those conspiracy theorists amongst you, I can assure you that it will have just been an honest mistake. At one point
several months ago, POCB was going to be part of Airplane Hour. Somewhere, someone has mistakenly posted the wrong listing. It will have been a genuine mistake but nonetheless it was a mistake which is unacceptable. As said I will try to find out what went wrong and hope that you will see fit to forgive the team at Discovery.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

[BABY J]

LET'S SPAM HIS MYSPACE!!! LOL

[DemonEyez]

As an aerospace engineering student, here's my two cents:


As has been said before, no power is supplied to the wheels of an aircraft, it is propelled by either a propeller or a jet. The conveyor belt supplies a force backwards. If that is the only outside force involved, the plane will be stationary relative to the conveyor belt and will be moving backwards through the air. If the aircraft's propulsion supplies a force in the forward direction, the backward speed of the conveyor belt can be cancelled out with the forward speed of the aircraft. In this case, the conveyor belt will be moving past the airplane at takeoff speed but the speed of the air over the wings will be 0, which means the lift will be 0, so the plane will not take off.

ouch.. i bet u fail or build something that fails.

your right mostly. but the treadmill would NOT push the airplane back due tot he wheels. the wheels are free moving. Think about it. in a car wheels are tied to axels, etc etc.

what happens if you put the back wheels of a FWD car onto a raised up wheel and spin em.. absolutely nothing

[mocha latte cupcake]

planes need lift.... correct? lift requires air movement correct? and a stationary object spinning its wheels and revving is engine is not generating either correct.... there its all quite simple in my head lol regardless if i'm right or not... to me thats basically about it

[Clegger]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

[DemonEyez]

planes need lift.... correct? lift requires air movement correct? and a stationary object spinning its wheels and revving is engine is not generating either correct.... there its all quite simple in my head lol regardless if i'm right or not... to me thats basically about it

if the car wwas on a treadmill it would go no where. again as the power generated by the motor is applied through the wheels. on a airplane its not, the turbines create the thrust 100% independent from the wheels which is the only point of contact to the treadmill and normally free moving. Unless the pilot has the brakes on the airplane applied.

[ThaABomb]

Even though the wheels can rotate independently of the airplane's motion, there is friction involved that causes the airplane to move backwards. If you don't believe me, put a toy car on a moving treadmill and see if it rolls off.

[Ruiner]

As an aerospace engineering student, here's my two cents:


As has been said before, no power is supplied to the wheels of an aircraft, it is propelled by either a propeller or a jet. The conveyor belt supplies a force backwards. If that is the only outside force involved, the plane will be stationary relative to the conveyor belt and will be moving backwards through the air. If the aircraft's propulsion supplies a force in the forward direction, the backward speed of the conveyor belt can be cancelled out with the forward speed of the aircraft. In this case, the conveyor belt will be moving past the airplane at takeoff speed but the speed of the air over the wings will be 0, which means the lift will be 0, so the plane will not take off.

I weep for your education. When the plane applies the throttle, it WILL move forward. The treadmill will ONLY make the wheels spin faster. What, did you think that we were talking about the plan just sitting there without any power? Remember: the treadmill MATCHES the speed of the plane.

With that said, you are creating a logical paradox. I don't understand how people can come to a conclusion that is a logical paradox. If you think the plane won't take off you realize that you are stuck in a logical impossibility. If you think it won't take off you also think that the plane won't move. If the plane wont move, neither does the treadmill. So how would that work when the plane starts it's engines? it moves and then the treadmill moves and the plane stops? but then the treadmill stops and the plane starts moving again and so on.. it's a paradox, it can not be true.

[Ruiner]

Even though the wheels can rotate independently of the airplane's motion, there is friction involved that causes the airplane to move backwards. If you don't believe me, put a toy car on a moving treadmill and see if it rolls off.

True, but can the plane's engines OVERCOME that small bit of friction?

[Ruiner]

From a mod on their site:



"Adam? Jamie? Dan? Someone step up and tell us what happened tonight."

Dear all,

As wbarnhill called out, I thought I should step in to what is rapidly becoming a hornet's nest. I will try to calm things down but I don't hold out much hope!

First up, for those concerned that this story has been cancelled, don't worry, planes on a conveyer belt has been filmed, is spectacular, and will be part of what us Mythbusters refer to as 'episode 97'. Currently that is due to air on January 30th.

Secondly, for those very aggrieved fans feeling "duped" into watching tonight's show, I can only apologise. I'm not sure why the listings / internet advertised that tonight's show contained POCB. I will endeavour to find out an answer but for those conspiracy theorists amongst you, I can assure you that it will have just been an honest mistake. At one point
several months ago, POCB was going to be part of Airplane Hour. Somewhere, someone has mistakenly posted the wrong listing. It will have been a genuine mistake but nonetheless it was a mistake which is unacceptable. As said I will try to find out what went wrong and hope that you will see fit to forgive the team at Discovery.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

[speedminded]

From a mod on their site:http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=36338299&postcount=557 :tongue:

[speedminded]

Even though the wheels can rotate independently of the airplane's motion, there is friction involved that causes the airplane to move backwards. If you don't believe me, put a toy car on a moving treadmill and see if it rolls off.Take that same car and duct tape a bottle rocket to it's roof with the fuse facing towards the rear of the treadmill...what do you think will happen when it ignites?

[Echonova]

As an aerospace engineering student, here's my two cents:


As has been said before, no power is supplied to the wheels of an aircraft, it is propelled by either a propeller or a jet. The conveyor belt supplies a force backwards. If that is the only outside force involved, the plane will be stationary relative to the conveyor belt and will be moving backwards through the air. If the aircraft's propulsion supplies a force in the forward direction, the backward speed of the conveyor belt can be cancelled out with the forward speed of the aircraft. In this case, the conveyor belt will be moving past the airplane at takeoff speed but the speed of the air over the wings will be 0, which means the lift will be 0, so the plane will not take off. I am smarter than an aerospace engineer.:goodjob:

[IDCoconut]

This **** is still going on?! LOL

As for the aerospace student, think again. Use your head for a second. The ONLY WAY the plane will not take off is if there is a HEADWIND matching the plane's speed in relation to its thrust.

As far as the ground friction, that friction is nothing to 450kN of thrust coming from a 777. Get over yourself.



I am smarter than an aerospace engineer.:goodjob:

Nuh uh. He said he's a student in an aerospace engineering study @ at school, in which if he maintains his belief on this subject, he should STRONGLY re-consider his major.

[speedminded]

As an aerospace engineering student, here's my two cents:


As has been said before, no power is supplied to the wheels of an aircraft, it is propelled by either a propeller or a jet. The conveyor belt supplies a force backwards. If that is the only outside force involved, the plane will be stationary relative to the conveyor belt and will be moving backwards through the air. If the aircraft's propulsion supplies a force in the forward direction, the backward speed of the conveyor belt can be cancelled out with the forward speed of the aircraft. In this case, the conveyor belt will be moving past the airplane at takeoff speed but the speed of the air over the wings will be 0, which means the lift will be 0, so the plane will not take off.*sigh*

Repeat the original question, “If a plane is traveling at takeoff speed on a conveyor belt, and the belt is matching that speed in the opposite direction, can the plane take off?”

Let’s break this sentence down, “If a plane is TRAVELING at takeoff speed...” /Freeze/ What do you suppose traveling at takeoff speed implies? As an aerospace engineering student, how is a planes speed determined? What specific equipment measures said speed of plane?
.
.
.
.
.
Does it have anything to do with the ground or what’s beneath it? *Hint* It’s an airspeed indicator, a pitot tube on the exterior of the plane that measure ram air pressure. Case in point, an airplanes speed has nothing to do with its wheels, nothing at all. You can get all technical and start discussing indicated airspeed vs. calibrated airspeed vs. equivalent airspeed but you don’t have to think that far into it….If the plane was truly standing still and not progressing forward, as in traveling 0mph, then the conveyor would be going what speed? ….0mph.
.
.
.
.
.
With that said, if the plane is moving forward at 100mph then the conveyor belt is moving backwards at 100mph. The only difference between a plane on a runway and a plane on a conveyor belt going the opposite direction is the speed in which the wheels rotate. The 100mph speed of plane + 100mph speed of conveyor belt = speed of wheels to be 200mph….the plane IS STILL TRAVELING FORWARD at 100mph. Whichs means there are 100mph winds moving above and below it's wings and lift will be created when the plane reaches whatever it's required take off speed is.

[ThaABomb]

Personally, I don't think the question is stated very clearly. The question that I THINK is being posed is essentially the same as this question:

Does a car with a spoiler produce downforce when it is on a dyno?

The answer is still no. In both cases, the wheels are spinning but the vehicle is not moving forward relative to the ground or the air. In the airplane case, the the conveyor belt moves backwards beneath the airplane, and because of the forward force applied to the aircraft by its engine, its wheels rotate to match the speed of the conveyor belt, but the plane doesn't move relative to the ground or the air. In the car case, the force of the cars wheels on the dyno rollers accelerate the rollers, so that the speed of the wheels and the speed of the rollers is the same, but the car does not move relative to the ground or the air. In both cases, there is no air flow over the wing/spoiler, so no lift/downforce is produced.

[speedminded]

Personally, I don't think the question is stated very clearly. The question that I THINK is being posed is essentially the same as this question:

Does a car with a spoiler produce downforce when it is on a dyno?

The answer is still no. In both cases, the wheels are spinning but the vehicle is not moving forward relative to the ground or the air. In the airplane case, the the conveyor belt moves backwards beneath the airplane, and because of the forward force applied to the aircraft by its engine, its wheels rotate to match the speed of the conveyor belt, but the plane doesn't move relative to the ground or the air. In the car case, the force of the cars wheels on the dyno rollers accelerate the rollers, so that the speed of the wheels and the speed of the rollers is the same, but the car does not move relative to the ground or the air. In both cases, there is no air flow over the wing/spoiler, so no lift/downforce is produced.You're digging yourself deeper in a hole and clearly shows you have no concept for even basic physics.

1) If the plane is not traveling forward then the conveyor is NOT moving.

2) What is preventing the airplane from propelling itself forward???

3) QUIT FUCKING THINKING ABOUT A GODDAMN CAR, CARS ARE NOT PLANES AND PLANES ARE NOT CARS...THERE IS NO RELATION IN THE WAY THEY TRAVEL OR PROPEL THEMSELVES WHAT SO EVER.

[Echonova]

Personally, I don't think the question is stated very clearly. The question that I THINK is being posed is essentially the same as this question:

Does a car with a spoiler produce downforce when it is on a dyno?

The answer is still no. In both cases, the wheels are spinning but the vehicle is not moving forward relative to the ground or the air. In the airplane case, the the conveyor belt moves backwards beneath the airplane, and because of the forward force applied to the aircraft by its engine, its wheels rotate to match the speed of the conveyor belt, but the plane doesn't move relative to the ground or the air. In the car case, the force of the cars wheels on the dyno rollers accelerate the rollers, so that the speed of the wheels and the speed of the rollers is the same, but the car does not move relative to the ground or the air. In both cases, there is no air flow over the wing/spoiler, so no lift/downforce is produced.Let me break it down in a way you can understand it. With pretty moving pictures...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk&feature=related

[ThaABomb]

First of all, the GROWN MAN in that video was unable to sucessfully pronounce the word "simplified". Second of all, that video did not address the question at all. The question addresses an airplane's ability to take off from a moving treadmill when the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill are the same. That video addresses an airplane's ability to move forward on a treadmill that is moving backwards.

Here we go, from the beginning:

An infinitely long treadmill is at rest on the ground. The treadmill's belt (the part that moves) is stationary. An airplane is at rest on the belt. The belt begins to move backwards. It accelerates to 100 MPH. The airplane is producing no thrust. At this point, it is stationary relative to the belt, and moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to both the ground and the air. The airplane throttles up to match the speed of the belt. It is now moving forward at 100 MPH relative to the belt, which is moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to the ground and the air. The speed of the airplane relative to the ground and the air is the sum of its speed relative to the belt and the speed of the belt relative to the ground.

100 MPH forward (airplane relative to belt) + 100 MPH backward (belt relative to both ground and air) = 0 MPH (airplane relative to ground/air)

If the speed of the airplane through the air is 0, no lift is produced, so the airplane will not take off.


I'm sorry if this comes off as arrogant or cocky. That was never my intention. I was just trying to contribute to an interesting discussion.

[chrisdavis]

First of all, the GROWN MAN in that video was unable to sucessfully pronounce the word "simplified". Second of all, that video did not address the question at all. The question addresses an airplane's ability to take off from a moving treadmill when the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill are the same. That video addresses an airplane's ability to move forward on a treadmill that is moving backwards.

Here we go, from the beginning:

An infinitely long treadmill is at rest on the ground. The treadmill's belt (the part that moves) is stationary. An airplane is at rest on the belt. The belt begins to move backwards. It accelerates to 100 MPH. The airplane is producing no thrust. At this point, it is stationary relative to the belt, and moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to both the ground and the air. The airplane throttles up to match the speed of the belt. It is now moving forward at 100 MPH relative to the belt, which is moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to the ground and the air. The speed of the airplane relative to the ground and the air is the sum of its speed relative to the belt and the speed of the belt relative to the ground.

100 MPH forward (airplane relative to belt) + 100 MPH backward (belt relative to both ground and air) = 0 MPH (airplane relative to ground/air)

If the speed of the airplane through the air is 0, no lift is produced, so the airplane will not take off.


I'm sorry if this comes off as arrogant or cocky. That was never my intention. I was just trying to contribute to an interesting discussion.


The problem with your theory is that you are equating the wheels of the plane with the production of forward momentun instead of the turbines.


If a plane was suspended in the air and the engines were running full throttle do you think the plane would just hang there or would it try to fly forward?

[IDCoconut]

^ding ding ding.

[Ruiner]

For those that say that the plane doesn't move...

Remember: the treadmill MATCHES the speed of the plane.

With that said, you are creating a logical paradox. I don't understand how people can come to a conclusion that is a logical paradox. If you think the plane won't take off you realize that you are stuck in a logical impossibility. If you think it won't take off you also think that the plane won't move. If the plane wont move, neither does the treadmill. So how would that work when the plane starts it's engines? it moves and then the treadmill moves and the plane stops? but then the treadmill stops and the plane starts moving again and so on.. it's a paradox, it can not be true.

[Master Shake]

The problem with your theory is that you are equating the wheels of the plane with the production of forward momentun instead of the turbines.


If a plane was suspended in the air and the engines were running full throttle do you think the plane would just hang there or would it try to fly forward?you gotta think, with the platform moving backwards, it will cause some air movement. if the plane starts to accelerate, matching the speed of the platform, it will be stationary, but there will be some movement over the wings to where it could be enough to lift it up. and plan has turbines, it going to cause the plane to be pushed from the back/sides.

i think it will lift off and be stationary in the air shortly off the ground till the turbines give it enough speed to move forward.

the earth is spinning in circles a lot faster than a plane can move, and we still lift off every day.

[Ruiner]

you gotta think, with the platform moving backwards, it will cause some air movement. if the plane starts to accelerate, matching the speed of the platform, it will be stationary, but there will be some movement over the wings to where it could be enough to lift it up. and plan has turbines, it going to cause the plane to be pushed from the back/sides.

i think it will lift off and be stationary in the air shortly off the ground till the turbines give it enough speed to move forward.

the earth is spinning in circles a lot faster than a plane can move, and we still lift off every day.

What the ****? No! :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

The treadmill creates movement of air over the wings? Ahahahahah

[speedminded]

First of all, the GROWN MAN in that video was unable to sucessfully pronounce the word "simplified". Second of all, that video did not address the question at all. The question addresses an airplane's ability to take off from a moving treadmill when the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill are the same. That video addresses an airplane's ability to move forward on a treadmill that is moving backwards.

Here we go, from the beginning:

An infinitely long treadmill is at rest on the ground. The treadmill's belt (the part that moves) is stationary. An airplane is at rest on the belt. The belt begins to move backwards. It accelerates to 100 MPH. The airplane is producing no thrust. At this point, it is stationary relative to the belt, and moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to both the ground and the air. The airplane throttles up to match the speed of the belt. It is now moving forward at 100 MPH relative to the belt, which is moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to the ground and the air. The speed of the airplane relative to the ground and the air is the sum of its speed relative to the belt and the speed of the belt relative to the ground.

100 MPH forward (airplane relative to belt) + 100 MPH backward (belt relative to both ground and air) = 0 MPH (airplane relative to ground/air)

If the speed of the airplane through the air is 0, no lift is produced, so the airplane will not take off.


I'm sorry if this comes off as arrogant or cocky. That was never my intention. I was just trying to contribute to an interesting discussion.You are something else! Is this a joke? This seriously can't be going through your head with even the most elementary basics of physics. I sure hope your parents don't pay for your school! :2cents:

Did you read my previous post on how a aircraft reads its speed, as in indicated airspeed? It has NOTHING to do with the ground, it's wheels, or anything else that may be beneath it! IT IS A I R S P E E D!

If a planes indicated speed is 5 mph then wind is going over it's wings at 5 mph (as long as there is no tailwind) let's a little table:

Aircraft Speed : Speed of air passing over it's wings [table show with zero (0) tailwind]
5 mph plane speed = 5 mph wind passing wings
10 mph plane speed = 10 mph wind passing wings
20 mph plane speed = 20 mph wind passing wings
30 mph plane speed = 30 mph wind passing wings
40 mph plane speed = 40 mph wind passing wings
50 mph plane speed = 50 mph wind passing wings
60 mph plane speed = 60 mph wind passing wings
70 mph plane speed = 70 mph wind passing wings
80 mph plane speed = 80 mph wind passing wings
90 mph plane speed = 90 mph wind passing wings
100 mph plane speed = 100 mph wind passing wings
110 mph plane speed = 110 mph wind passing wings
120 mph plane speed = 120 mph wind passing wings
130 mph plane speed = 130 mph wind passing wings
140 mph plane speed = 140 mph wind passing wings
150 mph plane speed = 150 mph wind passing wings
160 mph plane speed = 160 mph wind passing wings
170 mph plane speed : 170 mph wind passing wings
180 mph plane speed : 180 mph wind passing wings
190 mph plane speed : 190 mph wind passing wings
200 mph plane speed : 200 mph wind passing wings
210 mph plane speed = 210 mph wind passing wings
220 mph plane speed = 220 mph wind passing wings
230 mph plane speed = 230 mph wind passing wings
240 mph plane speed = 240 mph wind passing wings
250 mph plane speed = 250 mph wind passing wings
260 mph plane speed = 260 mph wind passing wings
270 mph plane speed : 270 mph wind passing wings
280 mph plane speed : 280 mph wind passing wings
290 mph plane speed : 290 mph wind passing wings
300 mph plane speed : 300 mph wind passing wings

Have you figured out the trend yet or should I keep going? (note: this chart is shown with zero tail wind, otherwise subtract the speed of the tail wind from the second number)

So again...if the plane is traveling forward at 100mph and the conveyor belt is matching its speed and rotating backwards towards the plane at 100mph, THEN THE PLANE IS STILL MOVING FORWARD AT 100 MPH, the wheels will just be rotating at 200mph.

[Echonova]

First of all, the GROWN MAN in that video was unable to sucessfully pronounce the word "simplified". Second of all, that video did not address the question at all. The question addresses an airplane's ability to take off from a moving treadmill when the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill are the same. That video addresses an airplane's ability to move forward on a treadmill that is moving backwards.

Here we go, from the beginning:

An infinitely long treadmill is at rest on the ground. The treadmill's belt (the part that moves) is stationary. An airplane is at rest on the belt. The belt begins to move backwards. It accelerates to 100 MPH. The airplane is producing no thrust. At this point, it is stationary relative to the belt, and moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to both the ground and the air. The airplane throttles up to match the speed of the belt. It is now moving forward at 100 MPH relative to the belt, which is moving backwards at 100 MPH relative to the ground and the air. The speed of the airplane relative to the ground and the air is the sum of its speed relative to the belt and the speed of the belt relative to the ground.

100 MPH forward (airplane relative to belt) + 100 MPH backward (belt relative to both ground and air) = 0 MPH (airplane relative to ground/air)

If the speed of the airplane through the air is 0, no lift is produced, so the airplane will not take off.


I'm sorry if this comes off as arrogant or cocky. That was never my intention. I was just trying to contribute to an interesting discussion.Cocky? That's what whoreslounge is for...lol. The purpose of the video was to show that with the treadmill, even running at a speed greater than which the plane could match(the air hog can't match 10mph). Still went forward at the same speed than when the treadmill was turned off. Since the plane still moved forward, why can we not surmise that given enough room it would indeed reach take-off velocity? It is a interesting discussion.

[IDCoconut]

... why can we not surmise that given enough room it would indeed reach take-off velocity?

That's the problem, it won't reach the take off velocity because there's an elephant in the way.

[ThaABomb]

Alright, I think there are several different interpretations of this question floating around, and that is where all the confusion is coming from. If the plane is moving relative to the belt, but is stationary relative to the air, it will not take off (which is the point that I have been attempting to argue, though now it seems like I missed the point of the question). If an airplane is on a belt that is moving backwards, it can overcome the rearward speed of the belt to achieve takeoff speed (relative to the air), and in that case, will take off. However, in the latter case, the airplane isn't "matching" the speed of the belt, which is why I didn't think this was the scenario the question was asking about. The stated the the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill were "matching", which I understood to mean that the plane was not moving through the air. Apparently I misunderstood the question. My apologies.

[Deke]

Alright, I think there are several different interpretations of this question floating around, and that is where all the confusion is coming from. If the plane is moving relative to the belt, but is stationary relative to the air, it will not take off (which is the point that I have been attempting to argue, though now it seems like I missed the point of the question). If an airplane is on a belt that is moving backwards, it can overcome the rearward speed of the belt to achieve takeoff speed (relative to the air), and in that case, will take off. However, in the latter case, the airplane isn't "matching" the speed of the belt, which is why I didn't think this was the scenario the question was asking about. The stated the the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill were "matching", which I understood to mean that the plane was not moving through the air. Apparently I misunderstood the question. My apologies.

Well said. The original question was stated rather ambiguosly. The fact of the matter is, if the wheels are free spinning, and there is any push from propellors/jets it will move forward. This however makes it impossible for the treadmill to match the speed of the wheels. The only way this question would be feasible, and thus proved false, is if the take-off of the plane was driven by the wheels, which we all know isn't the case.

Hence, my extreme hatred of this question

[DirtyMechanic]

Alright, I think there are several different interpretations of this question floating around, and that is where all the confusion is coming from. If the plane is moving relative to the belt, but is stationary relative to the air, it will not take off (which is the point that I have been attempting to argue, though now it seems like I missed the point of the question). If an airplane is on a belt that is moving backwards, it can overcome the rearward speed of the belt to achieve takeoff speed (relative to the air), and in that case, will take off. However, in the latter case, the airplane isn't "matching" the speed of the belt, which is why I didn't think this was the scenario the question was asking about. The stated the the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill were "matching", which I understood to mean that the plane was not moving through the air. Apparently I misunderstood the question. My apologies. what a way to back pedal and not sound like a moron..... Nope you still are.

[speedminded]

Alright, I think there are several different interpretations of this question floating around, and that is where all the confusion is coming from. If the plane is moving relative to the belt, but is stationary relative to the air, it will not take off (which is the point that I have been attempting to argue, though now it seems like I missed the point of the question). If an airplane is on a belt that is moving backwards, it can overcome the rearward speed of the belt to achieve takeoff speed (relative to the air), and in that case, will take off. However, in the latter case, the airplane isn't "matching" the speed of the belt, which is why I didn't think this was the scenario the question was asking about. The stated the the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill were "matching", which I understood to mean that the plane was not moving through the air. Apparently I misunderstood the question. My apologies.No matter how they are worded it's all the same question with the exact same concept..."can a plane take off on a conveyor belt that's moving in the opposite direction (towards it)". Does it matter that the speed is matched... nope. Would it even matter if the conveyor was moving 10 times the speed of the plane, nope. It has nothing to do with the way it was worded, you just automatically assumed it was not moving because it is on a "treadmill/conveyor" and 99.99% of the population can only relate to cars on a dyno or a person on a treadmill.



Well said. The original question was stated rather ambiguosly. The fact of the matter is, if the wheels are free spinning, and there is any push from propellors/jets it will move forward. This however makes it impossible for the treadmill to match the speed of the wheels. The only way this question would be feasible, and thus proved false, is if the take-off of the plane was driven by the wheels, which we all know isn't the case.

Hence, my extreme hatred of this questionNobody says anything EVER about the speed of the wheels. Why hate the question because you relate speed to wheels?

[Ruiner]

Alright, I think there are several different interpretations of this question floating around, and that is where all the confusion is coming from. If the plane is moving relative to the belt, but is stationary relative to the air, it will not take off (which is the point that I have been attempting to argue, though now it seems like I missed the point of the question). If an airplane is on a belt that is moving backwards, it can overcome the rearward speed of the belt to achieve takeoff speed (relative to the air), and in that case, will take off. However, in the latter case, the airplane isn't "matching" the speed of the belt, which is why I didn't think this was the scenario the question was asking about. The stated the the speed of the airplane and the speed of the treadmill were "matching", which I understood to mean that the plane was not moving through the air. Apparently I misunderstood the question. My apologies.

The speed of the plane = its speed through the air. Planes measure their speed via air speed, not wheel speed.

Important: the treadmill matches the speed of the plane

If the plane is not moving relative to the air, it has no speed (in simple terms - let's not talk about headwinds). Thus, if the plane has no speed (no airspeed), neither does the treadmill.

You are creating a logic paradox by saying that the plane is stationary while the treadmill is moving at some speed that is keeping it stationary. The treadmill MATCHES th speed of the plane. If the plane isn't moving, neither is the treadmill.

[Deke]

Nobody says anything EVER about the speed of the wheels. Why hate the question because you relate speed to wheels?

I was simply stating what I believe throws everyone off on this question.

And maybe it wasn't the exact original question posed on IA, but I've heard it elsewhere where the wheel speed is what the treadmill speed is based on.

[Psycho]

As an aerospace engineering student, here's my two cents:


As an aѕѕhole, here's my two cents:

Find a new career path.

[Psycho]

We need to make this interesting. The episode is supposed to air on Jan. 30th. Who ever is wrong should get banned for a week.

[DirtyMechanic]

And maybe it wasn't the exact original question posed on IA, but I've heard it elsewhere where the wheel speed is what the treadmill speed is based on.

Then you might as well say it was a car and not a plane.

[Ruiner]

Here is Adam's explanation for why the plane on a treadmill myth did not air during the "airplane hour" special:

http://dsc.discovery.com/video/?playerId=203711706&categoryId=210013704&lineupId=1283221956&titleId=1347908538

[speedminded]

Here is Adam's explanation for why the plane on a treadmill myth did not air during the "airplane hour" special:

http://dsc.discovery.com/video/?playerId=203711706&categoryId=210013704&lineupId=1283221956&titleId=1347908538lol, oh well.

[DaX]

Here is Adam's explanation for why the plane on a treadmill myth did not air during the "airplane hour" special:

http://dsc.discovery.com/video/?playerId=203711706&categoryId=210013704&lineupId=1283221956&titleId=1347908538

Thanks for posting. :goodjob:

[MaRk2k]

WILl iT TaKE OfF!?

[MaRk2k]

This is probably the best question ever asked on the internet.

[speedminded]

This is probably the best question ever asked on the internet.It's a debate older than religion itself! haha :tongue:

[MaRk2k]

It's a debate older than religion itself! haha :tongue:

lol:lmfao:

[MaRk2k]

WILL IT TAKE OFF YES OR ****ING NO THIS **** IS PISSING ME OFF!

[man]

You are creating a logic paradox by saying that the plane is stationary while the treadmill is moving at some speed that is keeping it stationary. The treadmill MATCHES th speed of the plane. If the plane isn't moving, neither is the treadmill.

Exactly, and since the plane would have to start moving forward for the treadmill to start moving, the myth debunks itself. This is of course one more undeniable fact as to why the plane will take off, no need to repeat the others.

Come on people, how do you not get this?

[_Christian_]

jesus christ people!!! the treadmill will cause friction (wheels), not drag. this many people really dont know how planes work?

[man]

jesus christ people!!! the treadmill will cause friction, not drag. this many people really dont know how planes work?

Drag is friction...

[_Christian_]

Drag is friction...
alright smart ass.

rephrased: The treadmill will cause friction via the wheels and no friction in terms of aerodynamic drag.

[Nismo]

Pa-jow!

[MaRk2k]

I think it would take off but crash Immediately

[kingkong]

I think it would take off but crash Immediately

why would it crash?

[Killswitch Performance]

I didn't read this whole thread, nor do I care that much. But am I wrong in saying..

That the plane will take off. The wheels are not what provide the power, but the jets. And since the jets propel the plane forward, it doesn't matter what is below it. The plane will move forward and take off, right?

Tyler

[Kaiser]

Drag is friction...


Yes, but people don't pay attention to that. The answer is: The treadmill wouldn't move because the wheels on the plane are free-rolling. It doesn't matter what speed the ground is moving at, Indicated Air Speed determines take-off time, and IAS is regardless of groundspeed. If you had a 150 knot tail wind, you'd have issues taking off, and if you have a 150 knot headwind, most private aircraft could take-off without moving, VTOL style. This myth only exists because people think airplanes taxiing moves like a car does.

[Ruiner]

I didn't read this whole thread, nor do I care that much. But am I wrong in saying..

That the plane will take off. The wheels are not what provide the power, but the jets. And since the jets propel the plane forward, it doesn't matter what is below it. The plane will move forward and take off, right?

Tyler

You are 100% correct. The wheels need to be free-rolling as well...

[Thighs]

it will take off. i promise.

100 bucks.

[kingkong]

it will take off. i promise.

100 bucks.


x2

[IDCoconut]

Dude that's that same as saying a 747 will take off without jets...

[Schugg]

im not sure i read it right, but sounds impossible to me. a plane cannot take out with wind resistance/force whatever you want to call it. wind is what cause the plane to be able to lift. the motors have nothing to do with a plane lifting, they just give it the speed to cause enough lift with the wind. but like i said i dont know if i read it right, if a plane is on a conveyor type thing and isnt moving its not getting any wind force to cause lift so its just going sit there with jets at ful thrust trying to take off when it cant

edit: i re-read some of it, but either way, its not going to take off unless it has an actual foward motion. if its just rolling in one spot, going through the actions of taking off it wont. why would mythbusters even waste their time with this.

[IDCoconut]

lol

what gives it forward motion buddy? the thrusters. so if the plane was at full thrust, why would it not move forward? the wheels has a measely effect on the forward thrust of the plan on a conveyor belt matching the plains GROUND SPEED.

[Schugg]

i didnt say anything about wheels, but if the thruster can push it fast enough to go its original ground speed on the converyor that will cause it to be going fast enough on the conveyor, to where you can stand by it off the conveyor, then if they can push it ontop of that to go double its original ground speed thats what it will take to get it to start moving and take off. if it can do that it can take off.

[JConner]

if you people watch this simple video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk&feature=related

you will see that the plane will take off

edit: if you dont understand what the piece of tape is for that holds the plane from falling off the treadmill look at this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYQU99VaAM&feature=related

[JConner]

oh and here is version II of that guys video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE&feature=related

[Schugg]

i error, in my post, it wont have to double its thruster put out force.....i got it now, wheels will just have to spin at twice the original speed. i was getting there, whhhatttttever!

[Killswitch Performance]

oh and here is version II of that guys video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE&feature=related

Cool vid. All he would have had to do was strap a bottle rocket to that sucker. Would have taken off then. ;)

Tyler

[Ruiner]

~2 weeks left...Jan 30th (Wednesday)

:)

[Ruiner]

Sneak peak from the episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBFQOfas60

[Frög]

im just going to watch it to see how they set up the experiment..

HAHAH cant beleive 44% voted "NO" america really is slow..

[Frög]

ahh i see now..

[speedminded]

ahh, novel idea...pull the fabric with a truck so it acts as a conveyor. Told you even the pilot would get it wrong :tongue:

[thepolecat]

It's simple physics. The plane. the plane must have air moving over the wings to create LIFT- Not just have wheels moving really fast.

[speedminded]

It's simple physics. The plane. the plane must have air moving over the wings to create LIFT- Not just have wheels moving really fast.You saying lift won't be created?

[man]

ahh, novel idea...pull the fabric with a truck so it acts as a conveyor. Told you even the pilot would get it wrong :tongue:

LOL @ the pilot.

[umairejaz]

Will fly without a problem. I've written this in my schedule, I really don't want to miss it.

[Echonova]

My prediction: The fabric or the rope holding it will break.

[Evil Goat]

heres my problem with the mythbusters stuff....and i dont care what its going to do, to me its one of those what came first? the chicken or the egg questions...i just dont give a ****, but....

shouldnt the small scale match the large scale? obviously the answers yes...so then why have the small scale on an actual conveyor where the weight of the model plane doesnt press the conveyor belt itself against the underlying supports and then have a large scale where essentially the conveyor is laying flat on the underlying support (the ground) and being pulled that way....just seems to me the plane in the large scale is merely taking off on a run way while someone pulls a bed sheet under it....not that intelligent if you ask me....that doesnt create a conveyor of any type....to match them they should pull the same sheet under the small scale plane as well


i can see where a plan can take off once it overcomes the initial friction of being on a conveyor, but im still confused as to how a plane, sitting stationary if the plane is matching the speed of the belt is going to create lift, and thus take off

[speedminded]

heres my problem with the mythbusters stuff....and i dont care what its going to do, to me its one of those what came first? the chicken or the egg questions...i just dont give a ****, but....

shouldnt the small scale match the large scale? obviously the answers yes...so then why have the small scale on an actual conveyor where the weight of the model plane doesnt press the conveyor belt itself against the underlying supports and then have a large scale where essentially the conveyor is laying flat on the underlying support (the ground) and being pulled that way....just seems to me the plane in the large scale is merely taking off on a run way while someone pulls a bed sheet under it....not that intelligent if you ask me....that doesnt create a conveyor of any type....to match them they should pull the same sheet under the small scale plane as well


i can see where a plan can take off once it overcomes the initial friction of being on a conveyor, but im still confused as to how a plane, sitting stationary if the plane is matching the speed of the belt is going to create lift, and thus take offThere is no initial friction that you yourself pushing that airplane with your own hands couldn't overcome.

How is the fabric being pulled any different than the belt on a conveyor? It's still moving parallel to the ground just as the belt would.

[Nittanys1]

^^^wow here we go again!!!

thanks for the youtube link Ruiner!!!! I cant wait

[Evil Goat]

There is no initial friction that you yourself pushing that airplane with your own hands couldn't overcome.

How is the fabric being pulled any different than the belt on a conveyor? It's still moving parallel to the ground just as the belt would.


now that i compare the two, although they work differently, they work the same...thats an invalid argument i didnt think out

and i probably worded it wrong, its not so much friction i guess, b/c friction is minimal at best and only through the wheels....if the conveyor matches the speed of the plane then the plane has to overcome the speed in order to move forward and create lift...so if the plane and the conveyors speed are matched then how does the plane create lift?

its like running on a treadmill....you can run all day long but you'll never feel a breeze....same concept with a plane correct?

[speedminded]

now that i compare the two, although they work differently, they work the same...thats an invalid argument i didnt think out

and i probably worded it wrong, its not so much friction i guess, b/c friction is minimal at best and only through the wheels....if the conveyor matches the speed of the plane then the plane has to overcome the speed in order to move forward and create lift...so if the plane and the conveyors speed are matched then how does the plane create lift?

its like running on a treadmill....you can run all day long but you'll never feel a breeze....same concept with a plane correct?Re-read the question then listen again to what exactly Adam said...the speed of the plane...a planes speed is measured by air speed, not how fast it's wheels are spinning. If the plane is moving 50mph then it's moving 50mph, it doesn't matter how fast the conveyor is below it.

With that said if the plane is moving at 50mph and the "conveyor belt" is moving the opposite direction at 50mph then the wheels are spinning at 100mph...

[Evil Goat]

very true, and let me be straight forward, im not arguing, i dont know the answer, but its intriguing now, and for someone who can explain it to me would be great....but lets say its a prop plane....the prop is what pulls the plane forward, correct? and i dont care anything about the wheels...the wheels could be spinning 10000000mph for all i care.....if the planes stationary then what produces lift?

-if the plane sits dead and the conveyor is turned on it will not stay stationary
-if the plane matches the speed by pulling itself forward to match the conveyors speed it will be stationary creating no lift
-if the plane does not match, but has less pull than the conveyor it will slowly move backwards
-if the plane overcomes the speed of the conveyor at a speed fast enough to create appropriate lift then obviously its gone

im seeing the logic here (to me anyway, lol), but noone to explain exactly why a plane, that would be stationary from, lets say, my point of view on the ground, would be able to create any lift, let alone substantial enough lift for the plane to take off

[JConner]

haha Neal Boortz was talking about this subject last week sometime and said something about watching Mythbusters for a whole hour a while back when they were supposed to do the experiment and was pissed they never did it! He mentioned that he didnt know when they planned on doing it and I called up and got to tell him live on the air tht it would be happening Jan 30th and chatted for a few seconds. It was cool.

[Evil Goat]

haha Neal Boortz was talking about this subject last week sometime and said something about watching Mythbusters for a whole hour a while back when they were supposed to do the experiment and was pissed they never did it! He mentioned that he didnt know when they planned on doing it and I called up and got to tell him live on the air tht it would be happening Jan 30th and chatted for a few seconds. It was cool.


great story, i wanna hear it again, you got a few minutes?

[Ruiner]

but im still confused as to how a plane, sitting stationary if the plane is matching the speed of the belt is going to create lift, and thus take off

NOBODY is saying that a "stationary" plane is going to take off. :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

What we are saying is that when a plane applies the throttle to the prop, it will MOVE FORWARD on the treadmill, gain speed, and take off (given a long enough treadmill).

[Ruiner]

very true, and let me be straight forward, im not arguing, i dont know the answer, but its intriguing now, and for someone who can explain it to me would be great....but lets say its a prop plane....the prop is what pulls the plane forward, correct? and i dont care anything about the wheels...the wheels could be spinning 10000000mph for all i care.....if the planes stationary then what produces lift?

-if the plane sits dead and the conveyor is turned on it will not stay stationary
-if the plane matches the speed by pulling itself forward to match the conveyors speed it will be stationary creating no lift
-if the plane does not match, but has less pull than the conveyor it will slowly move backwards
-if the plane overcomes the speed of the conveyor at a speed fast enough to create appropriate lift then obviously its gone

im seeing the logic here (to me anyway, lol), but noone to explain exactly why a plane, that would be stationary from, lets say, my point of view on the ground, would be able to create any lift, let alone substantial enough lift for the plane to take off

If the plane has speed, it CANNOT be stationary as a plane's speed is air speed, not ground speed.

The plane WILL not sit stationary. That is what you need to understand. IF the plane is stationary from your point of view, it has NO air speed. If it has NO air speed, the treadmill will have NO speed. The treadmill matches the plane's speed. The plane will MOVE forward through the air (while on the ground) and THAT will create lift. The wheels of the plane will just be spinning faster than normal.

Here, just watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4owlyCOzDiE

Remember, EVEN if a plane is moving on the ground, it is still moving through the air and thus, has air speed.

[Evil Goat]

maybe the question should read "the conveyor will match the speed of the plane to make the plane stationary and then the conveyor will maintain that speed....at this point could the plane accelerate and take off?"

b/c to me the question says the conveyor will match the speed of the plane (it doesnt say the speed matching will ever cease), so if the plane begins to pull away faster so will the conveyor, and as the video proves if both the plane and the conveyor are at the same speed there aint **** happening.

[Ruiner]

maybe the question should read "the conveyor will match the speed of the plane to make the plane stationary and then the conveyor will maintain that speed....at this point could the plane accelerate and take off?"

b/c to me the question says the conveyor will match the speed of the plane (it doesnt say the speed matching will ever cease), so if the plane begins to pull away faster so will the conveyor, and as the video proves if both the plane and the conveyor are at the same speed there aint **** happening.

See, you don't understand... See that bolded part? You are incorrect. The plane and the treadmill ARE NOT the same speed. The plane is not moving while the treadmill is. If the plane is stationary, it has ZERO air speed. Don't think of a plane like a car. It has AIR SPEED...

If the plane is not moving, it has ZERO speed. Thus, if the treadmill is moving and the plane isn't, they ARE NOT matching. LISTEN to what the guy says in the video....just listen.

[Evil Goat]

in that case how do you match the "land speed" of the conveyor to the "air speed" of the plane itself....its like comparing apples and oranges....i see the physics of it, i mean hell fire, when it overcomes the marginal friction it takes off...thats plain as day to a monkey in africa....

[speedminded]

in that case how do you match the "land speed" of the conveyor to the "air speed" of the plane itself....its like comparing apples and oranges....i see the physics of it, i mean hell fire, when it overcomes the marginal friction it takes off...thats plain as day to a monkey in africa....They are making it simple on Mythbusters, you agree that an airplane has a minimum speed it needs to to gain enough lift to take off and achieve flight correct? Say that speed is 50mph, they will be pulling the "conveyor belt" a constant 50mph with the truck in one direction. The airplane engine will be propelling the airplane in the opposite direction of the truck from 0-50mph which means at take off speed the truck and the plane will be moving away from each other at 100mph. In relation to the ground the airplane will be moving at 50mph and in relation to the conveyor belt it will be moving at 100. The speed of the plane plus the speed of the conveyor belt equals the speed the wheels are rotating.

[Thighs]

in that case how do you match the "land speed" of the conveyor to the "air speed" of the plane itself....its like comparing apples and oranges....i see the physics of it, i mean hell fire, when it overcomes the marginal friction it takes off...thats plain as day to a monkey in africa....

i dont appreciate your racist comments mister...

[speedminded]

i dont appreciate your racist comments mister...Should he have said a Giraffe or Zebra...don't think he meant it in a racist since.

[speedminded]

I TOLD YOU .. NO EMAILS ON THE AIRPLANE PROBLEM

Yet you persist. Web Guy tells me there were hundreds of emails from listeners yesterday saying that the airplane on the treadmill won't take off. If I had the means, and if it were legal, I would love to be every one of you that the airplane is going to take off. Can't, though ... being the rule of law type of guy that I am. All I can say is that you're going to be mighty embarrassed when Mythbusters runs their solution at the end of the month.

In a sense, this is rather dismaying. What I'm seeing here is the result of government education. So many people out there sending emails who apparently don't have the ability to think rationally ... to visualize a problem, think it through, and come up with a logical solution.

If you ppl can't noodle out this rather simple problem, please do me a favor and stay away from the polls on election day. You just don't have what it takes.Quote from Neal Boortz

[Jaimecbr900]

I like Boortz most of the time.


The longer I thought about it, the more I convinced myself that it was going to take off. I don't think I ever voted, but that's what I would vote for now. :goodjob:

[Ruiner]

Mach1DrmGrl, I made this thread. Of course it will take off. I was just trying to disprove the guy that made the statement about the treadmill moving but the plane not...yet they would have the same speed.

[Brett]

Quote from Neal Boortz

This is why I love Boortz.

[DirtyMechanic]

ahh Boortz

[Nittanys1]

yeah Boortz

[JConner]

ONLY 6 DAYS left

[Clegger]

Imma laugh so f'n hard when they dont show it LOLOL

[Nismo]

Lol at the idiots who still dont believe it will work. They are the same people that think a boat wont sink in hot water. LOLOL

[JConner]

ahahaha agreed! but they better! so that forums all over the world with government educated people that cannont process this concept of free rolling wheels can finally quit having this debate

[Ruiner]

Imma laugh so f'n hard when they dont show it LOLOL

The ENTIRE episode is dedicated to it. They'll show it.

[Echonova]

But will snakes on a plane on a treadmill take off?
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/zboever/Snakeonaplanonatreadmill.jpg

[Andyc3020]

The wheels have nothing to do with the plane taking off. the props will just pull the plane forward. the wheels will turn fast enough for the plane to move forward fast enough for it to get enough lift to take off. it would have to be a loooong ass tread mill because the plane has to have a runway to take off, not just a treadmill as long as the plane, becasue then it would run right off of it.

the only way it can take off is if it is moving forward fast enough to get lift. or if it has a huge wind source, but then you wouldn't even need a tread mill.

[Ruiner]

The wheels have nothing to do with the plane taking off. the props will just pull the plane forward. the wheels will turn fast enough for the plane to move forward fast enough for it to get enough lift to take off. it would have to be a loooong ass tread mill because the plane has to have a runway to take off, not just a treadmill as long as the plane, becasue then it would run right off of it.

the only way it can take off is if it is moving forward fast enough to get lift. or if it has a huge wind source, but then you wouldn't even need a tread mill.

Correct, correct, and correct.

This Wednesday will separate the men from the boys. :) The plane takes off.

[Leadfoot_mf]

But will snakes on a plane on a treadmill take off?
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/zboever/Snakeonaplanonatreadmill.jpg
i would rather watch this episode :goodjob:
with special guest samuel l jackson

[speedminded]

Suwanee Mythbusters meet posted! Be there!!
http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36467440

[Ruiner]

Strange. It shows that you made a recent post, Speedminded:

Today 11:57 AM
by speedminded Go to last post

[speedminded]

Strange. It shows that you made a recent post, Speedminded:

Today 11:57 AM
by speedminded Go to last postlolol, someone voted on the poll...it gets bumped everytime and marked unread when they do. It took me months to figure that one out but it was years ago :tongue:

[Quattro Kid]

how can it take off without lift? (aka the air flowing over/under thing wings?) which the air will not flow over the wings because the plane will not be moving in a forward motion if the belt is going the same speed as the plane.

that right there sums it off, whoever said it isn't propelled by the wheels is an idiot, of course it isn't propelled by the wheels, it needs lift hence why the plane needs to be MOVING forward if the plane is stationary due to the treadmill matching its speed then there's no lift to make the plane take off

case solved

[speedminded]

that right there sums it off, whoever said it isn't propelled by the wheels is an idiot, of course it isn't propelled by the wheels, it needs lift hence why the plane needs to be MOVING forward if the plane is stationary due to the treadmill matching its speed then there's no lift to make the plane take off

case solvedSo you're saying it won't take off?

[Ruiner]

that right there sums it off, whoever said it isn't propelled by the wheels is an idiot, of course it isn't propelled by the wheels, it needs lift hence why the plane needs to be MOVING forward if the plane is stationary due to the treadmill matching its speed then there's no lift to make the plane take off

case solved

Talk about a contradiction...

Read the bolded part...if the plane is stationary, then it has ZERO speed, right? Thus, if the plane has ZERO speed and the treadmill is matching it....what is the speed of the treadmill?

With that said, what you need to understand is that the treadmill CANNOT stop the plane from going forward. Are you familiar with the term "red herring"? The treadmill is a red herring that is meant to confuse you when in reality, it has no true effect on the plane.

[Humphrizzle]

no chance in hell that will even possibly work.


the only reason a plane takes off is wind, not whether the wheels are turning.

[speedminded]

no chance in hell that will even possibly work.


the only reason a plane takes off is wind, not whether the wheels are turning.err negative, the only reason planes take off is lift. Lift that is created by forward motion of the plane. The plane propels itself forward using thrust by pulling itself through air or forcing the air behind it, depending if it's a jet or propellor driven plane. What's going on with the wheels and what the wheels are touching does not matter one bit.

[Andyc3020]

Talk about a contradiction...

Read the bolded part...if the plane is stationary, then it has ZERO speed, right? Thus, if the plane has ZERO speed and the treadmill is matching it....what is the speed of the treadmill?

With that said, what you need to understand is that the treadmill CANNOT stop the plane from going forward. Are you familiar with the term "red herring"? The treadmill is a red herring that is meant to confuse you when in reality, it has no true effect on the plane.

exactly! it would stop a car because the wheels are what pushes the vehicle forward, but a plane's props are what pushes it forward. its hard to explain.

[Killswitch Performance]

exactly! it would stop a car because the wheels are what pushes the vehicle forward, but a plane's props are what pushes it forward. its hard to explain.

No its not. You just did it.

Tyler

[Andyc3020]

No its not. You just did it.

Tyler
yeah, but it was hard.

[Nismo]

OMFG I still cant believe some people are this dumb. Goto how stuff works.com look up how an airplane engine works. Look how it creates THRUST. Then look how the thrust works. Then you will see that the ground traveling in the opposite direction under wheels which free-spin and have no power too then which are there for only comfort and durability of the plane has no effect on wether the plane can or can not take off.

[.blank cd]

what time does it come on? I wanted to go to the mythbusters meet, but i have a 1080p HDTV at home i can watch it on thats alot closer

[Humphrizzle]

err negative, the only reason planes take off is lift. Lift that is created by forward motion of the plane. The plane propels itself forward using thrust by pulling itself through air or forcing the air behind it, depending if it's a jet or propellor driven plane. What's going on with the wheels and what the wheels are touching does not matter one bit.


this forcing of air is also known as wind.

moving air= wind.

wind is what is needed to create thrust.

[speedminded]

this forcing of air is also known as wind.

moving air= wind.

wind is what is needed to create thrust.huh?! You mean AIR is needed to create thrust...propellors don't work in a vacuum.

[Ruiner]

this forcing of air is also known as wind.

moving air= wind.

wind is what is needed to create thrust.

Actually, the result of thrust is wind, but in reality, you get LIFT because of a pressure difference between the top and bottom of a wing's surface.

With that said, the plane WILL have forward movement on the treadmill thus causing lift. Got it?

[Ruiner]

what time does it come on? I wanted to go to the mythbusters meet, but i have a 1080p HDTV at home i can watch it on thats alot closer

I have 65" of HDTV at home that I just can't pass up. This is going to be great. I'm DVR'ing it as well, so maybe I can convert it to video later on.

[Ruiner]

9pm bitches! Oh yes...some of you ****s are about to be proven wrong.

[1000cckiller]

I have 65" of HDTV at home that I just can't pass up. This is going to be great. I'm DVR'ing it as well, so maybe I can convert it to video later on.me too, and I love it.

[Ruiner]

me too, and I love it.

HDTV goodness is next to none. I can never go back to a standard def TV ever again. Fawk...

[1000cckiller]

HDTV goodness is next to none. I can never go back to a standard def TV ever again. Fawk...I couldn't either. It's such a different experience, everyone should buy one.

[Ruiner]

I couldn't either. It's such a different experience, everyone should buy one.

Dishnetwork has made me value my HD very much so...oh yes.

[1000cckiller]

Dishnetwork has made me value my HD very much so...oh yes.True, it is my relief when my girl pisses me off.

[Ruiner]

True, it is my relief when my girl pisses me off.

Women have the ability to do that...

[1000cckiller]

Women have the ability to do that...You are telling the truth. My girl comes in bitching and I calmly go grab the remote and a beer.

[speedminded]

So everyone agrees it will take off right?!

[Crazy Asian]

Im gonna go with the whole thing is gonna blow up.

[Ruiner]

You are telling the truth. My girl comes in bitching and I calmly go grab the remote and a beer.

If ONLY the pause and/or mute button worked on her...

[1000cckiller]

If ONLY the pause and/or mute button worked on her... :yes:, then I would be in heaven.

[.blank cd]

I have 65" of HDTV at home that I just can't pass up. This is going to be great. I'm DVR'ing it as well, so maybe I can convert it to video later on.I think they got DVRs w/ DVD recorders on them now. Better go cop you one quick :goodjob:

[TicketRedBB6]

What time does it come on tonight?

[.blank cd]

9 o' clock

[Julio]

tonight bitches!

[EJ25RUN]

cant wait :yes: :yes:

[Ruiner]

Holy **** it is on! They are playing around with an RC model right now.

[allmotoronly]

I highly doubt this will work

[chrisdavis]

Holy **** it is on! They are playing around with an RC model right now.

lol Im watching now

[Ruiner]

I highly doubt this will work

The RC plane already took off with the butcher paper acting like a treadmill. Thus, you are wrong. All that is left is a full scale test. That too, however, will take off.

You are wrong....wrong.....WRONG! Ahahahahah

[Crazy Asian]

I knew it, it's gonna fly.

[BKgen®]

lol, i realize this. Trust me, growing up as a pilot's son, the last thing i need is a lesson about aerodynamics.

here's how the actual problem is worded:


Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?



Notice it says that the conveyor belt is the same size as a typical runway. SO, we know that if the plane were to move forward, there would be plenty of room for it to take off.

Now, i realize that you guys are saying the wheels will roll as the conveyor belt passes by. Well i'm not sure what kind of planes you guys are talking about, but i've never seen one powered by its wheels lol, so the wheels don't matter.

In that case, whether its a moving conveyor belt or a stationary runway, the jet's engines (or the plane's props) will push the plane forward at normal speed as if it were on a regular runway, causing it to get air under its wings.

kthxbye


quoted so i can say i told ya so :D


I TOLD YA SO.

[soul]

its bout to show it oin mythbusters right now

[soul]

just showed

[DirtyMechanic]

hurray for morons that thought it wont fly. anyone had any bets on it.

[Ruiner]

The ****ing plane took off! The RC plane took off...the full scale plane took off! Busted! 68 idiots voted no!!

Oh, and I just scored $10 from LS2_Kid!

[umairejaz]

LOL @ the pilot!

[soul]

LoL at all the ****ing idiots that said it wouldnt, i still cant comprehend how you could even come to a conclusion and the reasoning behind saying it wouldnt.

[ATK_Designs]

I'm kinda disappointed that the conveyor belt setup though. I was looking forward to a more "grand" setup.

Anyhow, I'm getting $$ from my coworkers tomorrow on the bets.

I too was once a believer that it didn't take off. But after more ready and analysis with couple engineer friends, scientifically, it can :)

[Nemesis]

If the plane was going the same speed in the opposite direction as the conveyor belt, shouldnt it have stayed stationary during the run?

[ATK_Designs]

If the plane was going the same speed in the opposite direction as the conveyor belt, shouldnt it have stayed stationary during the run?

Two speeds are irrelevant. It's Air(hoovering) speed vs Land speed. The wheels will only spin faster and faster.

[Ruiner]

If the plane was going the same speed in the opposite direction as the conveyor belt, shouldnt it have stayed stationary during the run?

Air speed and conveyor belt speed are different. The conveyor belt acts on the wheels and spins them...the plane's engines act on the air. :)

[EJ25RUN]

:bannana: :bannana: :bannana: :bannana:

[allmotoronly]

The RC plane already took off with the butcher paper acting like a treadmill. Thus, you are wrong. All that is left is a full scale test. That too, however, will take off.

You are wrong....wrong.....WRONG! Ahahahahah

I thought they were saying that the plane would take off just from the conveyor moving (with no prop power). I didn't understand the myth. I realize that the speed the wheels of the plane are going has nothing to do with the prop.

[Crazy Asian]

Air speed and conveyor belt speed are different. The conveyor belt acts on the wheels and spins them...the plane's engines act on the air. :)

yup the wheel is just there.

[BKgen®]

If the plane was going the same speed in the opposite direction as the conveyor belt, shouldnt it have stayed stationary during the run?

DURRR.. didn't you see the RC Silvia demonstration?

[Nittanys1]

yeah i was right!!! ok....so can this thread can be closed now?

[Crazy Asian]

no he was busying studying the effects of a new drug on his lolitas

[Nemesis]

DURRR.. didn't you see the RC Silvia demonstration?

Nope, I actually came about halfway through the episode.

[EJ25RUN]

so yea... umm cockroaches and radiation and stuff

[umairejaz]

^that sh it was TIGHT

[BKgen®]

Congratulations to the following dumbasses:

07civicsi4dr
13Bracer
81911SC
ahmonrah
allmotoronly
AnclyT
andy1
antiv6
Bballjamal
bouncy!
Broke240
Calvin200sx
candy2082002
clean_sol
Complication
CRAMERIZKING
DaX
DieselNuts
dorin48
EBP_EM1
ep9716
Fox351
ftjandra
fucksohc
Fume
GAtegs
GIXXERDK
gtrmonkey
hatch22
Jaimecbr900
JayL
JDM ONLY
jdmjames
Jecht
Josh...
Julio
koukis14
kwillsksu
LS2_KID
Lucky.
luis
Maniaç, Maniac©
MaRk2k
Mik2006
MikeyPrzy
MR.org
NEMESIS LOL retard
oldschoolteg
Oz10
polishammer
Quattro Kid
rdm
rednblack
Retro
Rican219
Schugg
SL65AMG
SpeedMonkey
SrFoEva
TCM
ThaABomb
The Ren
TheDarkRacer
TheProfiteer
ugacivic
Wurm
XanRules
xLSTONEx

[Thighs]

LOL you tards.

[Crazy Asian]

ahahah

[umairejaz]

HAHA owned!

[Nemesis]

****ing a, i cant post

[allmotoronly]

Congratulations to the following dumbasses:

07civicsi4dr
13Bracer
81911SC
ahmonrah
allmotoronly
AnclyT
andy1
antiv6
Bballjamal
bouncy!
Broke240
Calvin200sx
candy2082002
clean_sol
Complication
CRAMERIZKING
DaX
DieselNuts
dorin48
EBP_EM1
ep9716
Fox351
ftjandra
****sohc
Fume
GAtegs
GIXXERDK
gtrmonkey
hatch22
Jaimecbr900
JayL
JDM ONLY
jdmjames
Jecht
Josh...
Julio
koukis14
kwillsksu
LS2_KID
Lucky.
luis
Maniaç, Maniac©
MaRk2k
Mik2006
MikeyPrzy
MR.org
oldschoolteg
Oz10
polishammer
Quattro Kid
rdm
rednblack
Retro
Rican219
Schugg
SL65AMG
SpeedMonkey
SrFoEva
TCM
ThaABomb
The Ren
TheDarkRacer
TheProfiteer
ugacivic
Wurm
XanRules
xLSTONEx

look man I just read the simple explanation of the myth. I thought they were saying the plane would take off just by being on the treadmill (not under prop power). The way other people were talking on other sites, I thought thats what they were getting at. I voted on this like 3 months ago. I never really read up on it until the beginning of the show. I realize that the speed the wheels are going has nothing to do with the prop and the fact that the plane will still take off. I made an A in physics for gods sake!!!!

[Crazy Asian]

no you still fail. LOL

[Ruiner]

I thought they were saying that the plane would take off just from the conveyor moving (with no prop power). I didn't understand the myth. I realize that the speed the wheels of the plane are going has nothing to do with the prop.

Who the **** would think that the plane would not take off w/o the prop moving? WHERE did you get that idea from? Certainly not from this thread.

Here is the original question that I posted in the FIRST post:



A plane is sitting on a long treadmill. The treadmill is linked to where it will match the speed of the plane, but in reverse. The wheels on the plane are free rolling. The plane will start its engines and try to take off like it normally would. The treadmill is as long as a normal runway. Will the plane be able to move forward on the treadmill and take off?

[BKgen®]

I made an A in physics for gods sake!!!!

:rly: :rly: :rly:


I'm hoping this physics class didn't take place before the poll started.

[Nemesis]

wow people take this so seriously

[allmotoronly]

Who the **** would think that the plane would not take off w/o the prop moving?

I dont know, I thought thats what they were getting at. I thought they meant the plane would take uff just because the wheels were moving at the takeoff speed. Thats why I said it would NOT work.

[Ruiner]

I dont know, I thought thats what they were getting at. I thought they meant the plane would take uff just because the wheels were moving at the takeoff speed. Thats why I said it would NOT work.


Umm, did you not read the first post in this thread?



A plane is sitting on a long treadmill. The treadmill is linked to where it will match the speed of the plane, but in reverse. The wheels on the plane are free rolling. The plane will start its engines and try to take off like it normally would. The treadmill is as long as a normal runway. Will the plane be able to move forward on the treadmill and take off?

[allmotoronly]

:rly: :rly: :rly:


I'm hoping this physics class didn't take place before the poll started.

did you read my explanation? I thought they were trying to say the plane would take off just because the wheels were moving at takeoff speed. Thats why i said it would not work that way.

[allmotoronly]

Umm, did you not read the first post in this thread?

how the hell am I supposed to remember, that was like forever ago. I probably just clicked the first link.

[BKgen®]

wow people take this so seriously

i'm adding your name to the list noob LOL

[Ruiner]

did you read my explanation? I thought they were trying to say the plane would take off just because the wheels were moving at takeoff speed. Thats why i said it would not work that way.

No, they said that a PLANE was traveling at take off speed, nothing about the wheels was mentioned other than they are free-rolling.

[Ruiner]

how the hell am I supposed to remember, that was like forever ago. I probably just clicked the first link.

And that is my fault how?

[Nemesis]

i'm adding your name to the list noob LOL


****

[allmotoronly]

No, they said that a PLANE was traveling at take off speed, nothing about the wheels was mentioned other than they are free-rolling.

ok man, I understand that I read it wrong the first time. I didn't re-read it again until just before they did it. Then I understood what the myth was. I thought they meant the wheels were traveling at takeoff speed, not the plane. If I would have read it correctly to begin with, I would have said that it WOULD work.

[allmotoronly]

And that is my fault how?

did I say it was your fault? I said it was MY fault for just skimming it the first time and not reading it completely.

[Jaimecbr900]

Congratulations to the following dumbasses:

07civicsi4dr
13Bracer
81911SC
ahmonrah
allmotoronly
AnclyT
andy1
antiv6
Bballjamal
bouncy!
Broke240
Calvin200sx
candy2082002
clean_sol
Complication
CRAMERIZKING
DaX
DieselNuts
dorin48
EBP_EM1
ep9716
Fox351
ftjandra
fucksohc
Fume
GAtegs
GIXXERDK
gtrmonkey
hatch22
Jaimecbr900
JayL
JDM ONLY
jdmjames
Jecht
Josh...
Julio
koukis14
kwillsksu
LS2_KID
Lucky.
luis
Maniaç, Maniac©
MaRk2k
Mik2006
MikeyPrzy
MR.org
NEMESIS LOL retard
oldschoolteg
Oz10
polishammer
Quattro Kid
rdm
rednblack
Retro
Rican219
Schugg
SL65AMG
SpeedMonkey
SrFoEva
TCM
ThaABomb
The Ren
TheDarkRacer
TheProfiteer
ugacivic
Wurm
XanRules
xLSTONEx

You're the dumbass that can't read. Go back and see where I put in my :2cents: LAST.....:rolleyes:

[BKgen®]

fight in the parking lot after school?

[Nemesis]

hey **** you GKtib LOL

[BKgen®]

You're the dumbass that can't read. Go back and see where I put in my :2cents: LAST.....:rolleyes:

LOL don't take it seriously i was J/K bro.












But really... obviously at one point you said it wouldn't fly :lmao:



i <3 u (no homo)

[Jaimecbr900]

fight in the parking lot after school?

If you can't read and wanna be call people a dumbass while trying to pat yourself on the back, then yes. :rolleyes:

[Crazy Asian]

we love you nem...

[ironchef]

Im suprised the internet hasn't exploded yet.

[allmotoronly]

Im suprised the internet hasn't exploded yet.

lolololollol

[Nemesis]

we love you nem...


You see Im taking these punches like a e-man.

[allmotoronly]

Ok I wonder who all is going to pay the million forza 2 credits you guys were betting each other.