Will the plane take off? v. Mythbusters!!! (VIDEO on Page 38)

[On_Her_Face]

what are you talking about, i use my treadmill to get to your house all the time

[speedminded]

I guess some people are baffled by how they run 20 miles on a treadmill, but after they're done..........they're still there, on the treadmill INSTEAD of in another town.........they haven't gone anywhere. OMGZERS! THE CONFUSION!
What a letdown! Like a broken time machine!

I wonder when airports will sell off their runways and invest in treadmills!!!!!

:lmfao:Yeah, that sounds like a wonderful idea...how about hartsfield-jackson replace their longest 12,000 foot runway with one that acts like a treadmill....the cost of that can't be much more than a small arab country right?

You do realize we've been saying since day one a treadmill the size of a normal runway right? Not a 5 foot long one at the gym.

[On_Her_Face]

Yeah, that sounds like a wonderful idea...how about hartsfield-jackson replace their longest 12,000 foot runway with one that acts like a treadmill....the cost of that can't be much more than a small arab country right?

You do realize we've been saying since day one a treadmill the size of a normal runway right? Not a 5 foot long one at the gym.

oh that explains it :lmfao:

[d993s]

Yeah, that sounds like a wonderful idea...how about hartsfield-jackson replace their longest 12,000 foot runway with one that acts like a treadmill....the cost of that can't be much more than a small arab country right?

You do realize we've been saying since day one a treadmill the size of a normal runway right? Not a 5 foot long one at the gym.

Ok.........and that treadmill will be spinning backwards at the same speed as what the plane normally needs on a runway to take off, right?
Won't work.

[Dietcoke]

Why would the treadmill influence wind under the wing? Holy crap LS2 are you THAT dense?

[On_Her_Face]

Why would the treadmill influence wind under the wing? Holy crap LS2 are you THAT dense?

cause it wont be moving!.. btw when are you coming back so we can have a little showdown

[d993s]

I think we should have all the highways removed and have treadmills everywhere so there would be less traffic and we could travel anywhere in the convenience of our own homes.

[On_Her_Face]

good idear..

[Dietcoke]

HOW will it gain lift? It needs a high velocity of air under it's wings (which it clearly won't have by traveling at a few mph relative to the ground).

Where is the lift coming from? Maybe if you angle the treadmill at 45 degrees and if the engines have enough power to launch it up like a Harrier Jet.

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

No, the ground will be moving relative to the air around it in the case of the treadmill. The air WILL remain stationary, unless treadmills are some new type of enourmous massive fan. You sir, are an idiot.

[VooDooXII]

cause it wont be moving!.. btw when are you coming back so we can have a little showdown

I was thinking the same way too...read what we posted!

[d993s]

Treadmills are the convenient and cost-effective alternative to teleporting.

[speedminded]

I was thinking the same way too...read what we posted!i almost thought he was on the right track until his friend with the ever so humorous and ironic quote for a signature came back in, lol...

"Never fight with stupid people; they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[On_Her_Face]

i am on the right track.

[speedminded]

i am on the right track.Obviously not if you can't comprehend that the treadmill has zero effect on the ability for the plane to propel itself and take off just like any normal runway.

[d993s]

i almost thought he was on the right track until his friend with the ever so humorous and ironic quote for a signature came back in, lol...

"Never fight with stupid people; they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Sometimes I can't help it; it's too funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[On_Her_Face]

Obviously not if you can't comprehend that the treadmill has zero effect on the ability for the plane to propel itself and take off just like any normal runway.

heres my question to you sir, rock paper or scissors

[VooDooXII]

I swear, I've been ignored in damn near every thread I've posted in.





If the jet engine or prop is fired up and propelling the plane forward 10mph and the treadmill is going backwards 10mph then the speed of the wheels is 20mph correct?

Give a little bit more throttle and the plane is going forward 25mph and the treadmill is still matching its speed by going backwards 25mph means the wheels are spinning at 50 mph correct?

Push that throttle some more and get that plane up to 100mph and the treadmill will be going backwards 100mph causing the wheels to be spinning at 200mph correct?

Get the idea here? The plane will always be propelling itself forward right? The treadmill has no effect on the motion of the plane except it will only make the free rolling wheels spin faster..

:headslap:

GOTCHA!

:goodjob:

Because, the wheels reduce the friction between the runway and the plane...so if you assume that the wheel bearings are frictionless, it's like the plane has no wheels.

I get it now...wow. I had trouble visualizing it.

[Dietcoke]

i am on the right track.

No :lmfao:



And your post in the street racing ticket thread, you CAN run a supercharger and turbocharger in unison. Just takes some tuning (though it's somewhat stupid to do so) it's not uncommon with certain make/models of car (cobalt ss, ion redline, pontiac gtp)





Once again, treadmill doesnt effect air flowing around the airplane. It's merely a moving surface. the air remains stationary, as it would if there was no treadmill. Turbines force the plane forward, and it generates lift just like (again) there was no treadmill. :screwy:

[d993s]

Obviously not if you can't comprehend that the treadmill has zero effect on the ability for the plane to propel itself and take off just like any normal runway.



So assuming the treadmill is the same length as a runway, and the treadmill is spinning backwards at the same speed as which the plane would need to take off the ground on a runway, then you still think the plane will actually take flight off the treadmill?

Wow! I didn't know treadmills have their own atmosphere that surrounds them and produces winds with such force that it provides lifting a plane off the ground. Must be one of them new treadmills that crackheads dream up.

[speedminded]

I swear, I've been ignored in damn near every thread I've posted in.lol, it's useless...

Maybe if enough people explain it in enough ways then one of those times it will make sense to those that don't understand, then of course you feel real dumb when the light bulb clicks on but oh well...at least you know you stood up for what you believe even if you didn't know what the hell you're talking about at the time :tongue:

[On_Her_Face]

No :lmfao:



And your post in the street racing ticket thread, you CAN run a supercharger and turbocharger in unison. Just takes some tuning (though it's somewhat stupid to do so) it's not uncommon with certain make/models of car (cobalt ss, ion redline, pontiac gtp)




Once again, treadmill doesnt effect air flowing around the airplane. It's merely a moving surface. the air remains stationary, as it would if there was no treadmill. Turbines force the plane forward, and it generates lift just like (again) there was no treadmill. :screwy:

i know this, i was just making a funny statement, theres a subi set up that has a s/c and a turbo.. :goodjob:

[On_Her_Face]

lol, it's useless...

Maybe if enough people explain it in enough ways then one of those times it will make sense to those that don't understand, then of course you feel real dumb when the light bulb clicks on but oh well...at least you know you stood up for what you believe even if you didn't know what the hell you're talking about at the time :tongue:

no

[speedminded]

So assuming the treadmill is the same length as a runway, and the treadmill is spinning backwards at the same speed as which the plane would need to take off the ground on a runway, then you still think the plane will actually take flight off the treadmill?

Wow! I didn't know treadmills have their own atmosphere that surrounds them and produces winds with such force that it provides lifting a plane off the ground. Must be one of them new treadmills that crackheads dream up.The treadmill is operating against the plane the exact same speed it is traveling forward...key words the plane is traveling forward...

[On_Her_Face]

The treadmill is operating against the plane the exact same speed it is traveling forward...key words the plane is traveling forward...
rock paper or scissors?

[IDCoconut]

some of you guys crack me up....comparing a car on a dyno and a plane with free-wheeling wheels on a treadmill....... :lmfao:. slap a jet with several tons of thrust on the back of your vehicle while on a dyno and see what happens.

you cant' compare a unit propelled by it's wheels with a unit held up by its wheels and propelled via air movement. It doesn't matter if those wheels were moving forward or backward, that ****ing plane is moving which ever direction its propulsion directs the force.

Look at it this way.

The JET ofthe plane is an external force acting on the plane.

now imagine yourself holding a flying shopping cart on a treadmill going 20mph. Your shopping cart wheel is spinning @ 20mph. Now it takes 25mph of forward thrust to create enough lift on your flying shopping cart. So with that said, the cart sitting still @ 0mph, with wheels spinning in reverse because of the treadmill @20mph....you push the cart forward to 25mph. You are the external force acting on your flying shopping cart. Now that your cart is moving 25mph relative to the ground, its wheels are now moving @ 45mph. The flying shopping cart will take off because you propelled it to25mph.

Unless you held onto your flying shopping cart, it will take off.

If you don't see it, you need to think a little harder. The plane doesn't use it's thrust to spin the wheels guys, the thrust is directly used to move the plane forward. As long as the wheels are free-spinning, there is not enough friction present to hold the plane back.

[speedminded]

rock paper or scissors?Where does that come from?

[On_Her_Face]

some of you guys crack me up....comparing a car on a dyno and a plane with free-wheeling wheels on a treadmill....... :lmfao:. slap a jet with several tons of thrust on the back of your vehicle while on a dyno and see what happens.

you cant' compare a unit propelled by it's wheels with a unit held up by its wheels and propelled via air movement. It doesn't matter if those wheels were moving forward or backward, that ****ing plane is moving which ever direction its propulsion directs the force.

Look at it this way.

The JET ofthe plane is an external force acting on the plane.

now imagine yourself holding a flying shopping cart on a treadmill going 20mph. Your shopping cart wheel is spinning @ 20mph. Now it takes 25mph of forward thrust to create enough lift on your flying shopping cart. So with that said, the cart sitting still @ 0mph, with wheels spinning in reverse because of the treadmill @20mph....you push the cart forward to 25mph. You are the external force acting on your flying shopping cart. Now that your cart is moving 25mph relative to the ground, its wheels are now moving @ 45mph. The flying shopping cart will take off because you propelled it to25mph.

Unless you held onto your flying shopping cart, it will take off.

If you don't see it, you need to think a little harder. The plane doesn't use it's thrust to spin the wheels guys, the thrust is directly used to move the plane forward. As long as the wheels are free-spinning, there is not enough friction present to hold the plane back.

i understand this. we shall see on december 12th

[d993s]

Once again, treadmill doesnt effect air flowing around the airplane. It's merely a moving surface. the air remains stationary, as it would if there was no treadmill. Turbines force the plane forward, and it generates lift just like (again) there was no treadmill. :screwy:

WRONG, on a plane lift is generated by airflow under its wings
We ARE talking about a plane............right?

[On_Her_Face]

Where does that come from?
im not sure of the origin of rock, paper, scissors.. but choose one

[d993s]

some of you guys crack me up....comparing a car on a dyno and a plane with free-wheeling wheels on a treadmill....... :lmfao:. slap a jet with several tons of thrust on the back of your vehicle while on a dyno and see what happens.

you cant' compare a unit propelled by it's wheels with a unit held up by its wheels and propelled via air movement. It doesn't matter if those wheels were moving forward or backward, that ****ing plane is moving which ever direction its propulsion directs the force.

Look at it this way.

The JET ofthe plane is an external force acting on the plane.

now imagine yourself holding a flying shopping cart on a treadmill going 20mph. Your shopping cart wheel is spinning @ 20mph. Now it takes 25mph of forward thrust to create enough lift on your flying shopping cart. So with that said, the cart sitting still @ 0mph, with wheels spinning in reverse because of the treadmill @20mph....you push the cart forward to 25mph. You are the external force acting on your flying shopping cart. Now that your cart is moving 25mph relative to the ground, its wheels are now moving @ 45mph. The flying shopping cart will take off because you propelled it to25mph.

Unless you held onto your flying shopping cart, it will take off.

If you don't see it, you need to think a little harder. The plane doesn't use it's thrust to spin the wheels guys, the thrust is directly used to move the plane forward. As long as the wheels are free-spinning, there is not enough friction present to hold the plane back.

So now we have shopping carts that FLY off treadmills.
My next flight to Chicago will be via treadmill! :lmfao:

[speedminded]

WRONG, on a plane lift is generated by airflow under its wings
We ARE talking about a plane............right?Well don't you think if the plane is moving then there will be airflow? However fast the plane is traveling forward is how fast the air speed over and under the wings will be...

If the plane isn't going anywhere then neither is the treadmill ;)

[On_Her_Face]

So now we have shopping carts that FLY off treadmills.
My next flight to Chicago will be via treadmill! :lmfao:

in a shopping cart

[On_Her_Face]

Well don't you think if the plane is moving then there will be airflow? However fast the plane is traveling forward is how fast the air speed over and under the wings will be...

If the plane isn't going anywhere then neither is the treadmill ;)
yes the plane will be moving, i admit it, it will be moving in place. no airflow.

[d993s]

Well don't you think if the plane is moving then there will be airflow? However fast the plane is traveling forward is how fast the air speed over and under the wings will be...

If the plane isn't going anywhere then neither is the treadmill ;)

No, there won't be airflow under its wings unless a magical 150mph headwind came out of God's ass.

[d993s]

in a shopping cart

Or on rollerblades or a skateboard, so I can land safely.
If I wanna fly to Alaska, I'll get on that treadmill with skis on!

[speedminded]

yes the plane will be moving, i admit it, it will be moving in place. no airflow.If the plane isn't going anywhere then it's at 0mph and so is the treadmill. If the plane is going forward, as in engine(s) are winding up and the planes is traveling forward...if you were in a open-top bi-plane you'd feel the wind against your face around your WWII goggles, helmet, and scarf...within a few seconds you're getting up to 40mph, the trees are going past you at 40 mph...the treadmill beneath you is going 40mph in the opposite direction making your wheels spin at 80mph but you are STILL going 40 mph forward...a few more seconds you'll be traveling 60mph, the treadmill is going towards you at 60mph and your wheels are spinning at 120mph....you're still going forward 60mph...the trees and barns are going past you at 60mph.


No, there won't be airflow under its wings unless a magical 150mph headwind came out of God's ass.How on earth will there not be any airflow? Grab a bottle of Grand Platinum if you have to and read above.

[On_Her_Face]

speedminded, this is a real question.. when you see this on tv and ur wrong then what?

[On_Her_Face]

also dont say "i wont be wrong"

just lets say you are wrong

[speedminded]

speedminded, this is a real question.. when you see this on tv and ur wrong then what?I'll put $500 on it right now.

[Kyle]

LS2 Kid, the answer may be "no" but the logic you are using to arrive there is full of holes, I think you are missing the point.

[d993s]

speedminded, this is a real question.. when you see this on tv and ur wrong then what?
I think a swift kick to the temple would be in order.

[On_Her_Face]

I'll put $500 on it right now.

really you would? this isn't worth 500 bucks to me and i said im not totally sure so why would i do this?


LS2 Kid, the answer may be "no" but the logic you are using to arrive there is full of holes, I think you are missing the point.

yes i know i havent explained everything thoroughly.

[speedminded]

really you would? this isn't worth 500 bucks to me and i said im not totally sure so why would i do this?Then you're not confident in your knowledge or your ability to grasp a basic concept, I'm sure Ruiner would put it down too.

[d993s]

If the plane isn't going anywhere then it's at 0mph and so is the treadmill. If the plane is going forward, as in engine(s) are winding up and the planes is traveling forward...if you were in a open-top bi-plane you'd feel the wind against your face around your WWII goggles, helmet, and scarf...within a few seconds you're getting up to 40mph, the trees are going past you at 40 mph...the treadmill beneath you is going 40mph in the opposite direction making your wheels spin at 80mph but you are STILL going 40 mph forward...a few more seconds you'll be traveling 60mph, the treadmill is going towards you at 60mph and your wheels are spinning at 120mph....you're still going forward 60mph...the trees and barns are going past you at 60mph.

How on earth will there not be any airflow? Grab a bottle of Grand Platinum if you have to and read above.

Do you add in your own variables for the sake of winning an argument?

[On_Her_Face]

Then you're not confident in your knowledge or your ability to grasp a basic concept, I'm sure Ruiner would put it down too.
:blah: :blah: :blah: i've already stated that im not confident in my answer (not knowledge) and i have even said if one of you all prove this to me ill stand by my answer till the show. honestly most of my posts in here have been whoring.

and congrads, you scared me with your big bet :goodjob:

[d993s]

I only whored with truth

[On_Her_Face]

and if this were true why wouldn't treadmills be on aircraft carriers

[d993s]

and if this were true why wouldn't treadmills be on aircraft carriers

Because it must first be proved (and approved) by Myth****ers.

[d993s]

It's another conspiracy. Must have something to do with the Kennedy assassination or Area 51. Yes

[speedminded]

Do you add in your own variables for the sake of winning an argument?What variables? There are no variables, none what so ever.

If the plane isn't going anywhere then the treadmill isn't moving, it's that simple. If the plane is indeed going somewhere then it is progressing forward and cutting through the wind and once it gains enough speed creating enough lift it will take off....it is completely irrelevant that the "ground" beneath is moving, it can be moving backwards the same speed the plane is traveling forward or it can be moving backward five times the speed of the plane...the only effect the treadmill has is the speed at which the wheels on the plane turn. It has no effect what so ever on the planes ability to accelerate and take off.


:blah: :blah: :blah: i've already stated that im not confident in my answer (not knowledge) and i have even said if one of you all prove this to me ill stand by my answer till the show. honestly most of my posts in here have been whoring.

and congrads, you scared me with your big bet :goodjob:I think you're close to it clicking, not quite but close...

[On_Her_Face]

even if it can created lift, the wheels wouldn't make it and it would go out with a bang

[MachNU]

so did this epsiode ever come on yet or did i miss it?

[On_Her_Face]

dec. 12th

[speedminded]

and if this were true why wouldn't treadmills be on aircraft carriersThe treadmill is the same length as a runway or whatever length the plane needs to take off.

The whole point of this experiment is to see if people can grasp and understand the idea that the wheels on a plane are free spinning and have no effect what so ever on the forward motion of a plane.

[On_Her_Face]

The treadmill is the same length as a runway or whatever length the plane needs to take off.

The whole point of this experiment is to see if people can grasp and understand the idea that the wheels on a plane are free spinning and have no effect what so ever on the forward motion of a plane.
either way the wheels wont be able to take it

[speedminded]

even if it can created lift, the wheels wouldn't make it and it would go out with a bangWhat speed do you think planes land? Faster than they take off? You think aeronautical equipment is designed to be used at it's extreme limit? The bearing and tires should not have a problem withstanding double what they get put through. AND if the treadmill is spinning backwards the same speed the plane is traveling forward then the wheels are going exactly twice as fast as they would on normal take off BUT the plane is still accelerating and taking off as normal.

[On_Her_Face]

What speed do you think planes land? Faster than they take off? You think aeronautical equipment is designed to be used at it's extreme limit? The bearing and tires should not have a problem withstanding double what they get put through. AND if the treadmill is spinning backwards the same speed the plane is traveling forward then the wheels are going exactly twice as fast as they would on normal take off BUT the plane is still accelerating and taking off as normal.

honestly dude, im too tired to read :lmao:

[d993s]

What variables? There are no variables, none what so ever.

If the plane isn't going anywhere then the treadmill isn't moving, it's that simple. If the plane is indeed going somewhere then it is progressing forward and cutting through the wind and once it gains enough speed creating enough lift it will take off....it is completely irrelevant that the "ground" beneath is moving, it can be moving backwards the same speed the plane is traveling forward or it can be moving backward five times the speed of the plane...the only effect the treadmill has is the speed at which the wheels on the plane turn. It has no effect what so ever on the planes ability to accelerate and take off.


The plane was supposed to be stationary as the ground under the treadmill, therefore NO AIRFLOW UNDER THE WINGS WHICH WOULD BE ESSENTIAL FOR LIFT, NOT FORWARD MOTION!
So, your variable states that if the plane was going faster than the belt on the treadmill, then yes it could take flight, (assuming it had enough power to propel itself to whatever speed it normally needs for takeoff on a runway, + the speed at which the treadmill is spinning at) Agreed, but that's not what the circumstances and plan are. Read the article. It states that the treadmill will spin at the SAME speed as what the plane would normally become airborne on a runway, therefore the plane would be stationary with no airflow under its wings. That's why and how it WOULDN'T lift off. Get it?

[d993s]

The treadmill is the same length as a runway or whatever length the plane needs to take off.

The whole point of this experiment is to see if people can grasp and understand the idea that the wheels on a plane are free spinning and have no effect what so ever on the forward motion of a plane.

Sure, but that still leaves the plane on the treadmill because it's not actually GOING ANYWHERE AS FAR AS DISTANCE IS CONCERNED, AND IT STILL NEEDS AIRFLOW UNDER ITS WINGS TO LIFT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[speedminded]

The plane was supposed to be stationary as the ground under the treadmill, therefore NO AIRFLOW UNDER THE WINGS WHICH WOULD BE ESSENTIAL FOR LIFT, NOT FORWARD MOTION!
So, your variable states that if the plane was going faster than the belt on the treadmill, then yes it could take flight, (assuming it had enough power to propel itself to whatever speed it normally needs for takeoff on a runway, + the speed at which the treadmill is spinning at) Agreed, but that's not what the circumstances and plan are. Read the article. It states that the treadmill will spin at the SAME speed as what the plane would normally become airborne on a runway, therefore the plane would be stationary with no airflow under its wings. That's why and how it WOULDN'T lift off. Get it?Where does it say the plane is stationary? If the plane is stationary then so is the fucking treadmill, as in if the plane is moving 0mph then the treadmill is moving 0mph.

If the plane is MOVING forward at 50mph, as in relation to the surrounding air...as in relation to the ground the treadmill is sitting on...as in relation to the building and trees it's traveling past then the treadmill is going the opposite direction at 50mph. The plane is still moving, it's wheels are just spinning twice as fast.

It's not stationary, it's not traveling in place, the speed of a plane is calculated by the surrounding air...if it's moving at 100mph then the air is going over and under it's wings at 100mph.

[Kyle]

Sure, but that still leaves the plane on the treadmill because it's not actually GOING ANYWHERE AS FAR AS DISTANCE IS CONCERNED, AND IT STILL NEEDS AIRFLOW UNDER ITS WINGS TO LIFT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE plane is not stationary. It's moving forward so there is airflow. The wheels do not effect it taking off. THE WHEELS DO NOT PROPEL THE PLANE. They are free rolling, it doesnt matter which way the wheels spin, the plane is moving forward due to thrust.

[Dietcoke]

WRONG, on a plane lift is generated by airflow under its wings
We ARE talking about a plane............right?

RIGHT, what the hell gives you the idea that a treadmill will effect the air that sits above it. Just because the treadmill is moving backwards, doesnt mean the air in free space is moving backwards as well. And IF that were the case, then the plane would actually generate MORE life.

Dumb.

[IDCoconut]

lol

**** cars & airplanes, treadmills are where its at.

[IDCoconut]

einstein's relativity theory owns you ****s.

[IDCoconut]

I figured out what they are saying. This is why it won't take off.



http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/Aftershock99/airplane.jpg

[Fast Shadow]

and if this were true why wouldn't treadmills be on aircraft carriers

Because what good would it do? You still need 1000 feet of runway whether it's a firm surface or a treadmill.

[Jaimecbr900]

Interesting debate.

I would need more info before I would put my wager down. I have voted, but just from gut feeling about how the Mythbusters are going to do it.

[speedminded]

Because what good would it do? You still need 1000 feet of runway whether it's a firm surface or a treadmill.Try a minimum of 3,000 ft, what most small private airstrips are and that's just barely enough to get a leer jet on...and i wouldn't exactly say "safely" :tongue:

[On_Her_Face]

Because what good would it do? You still need 1000 feet of runway whether it's a firm surface or a treadmill.
*sigh*

[Ruiner]

Interesting debate.

I would need more info before I would put my wager down. I have voted, but just from gut feeling about how the Mythbusters are going to do it.

Shame, J. You should always vote with me. :)

[Jaimecbr900]

Shame, J. You should always vote with me. :)

I normally do, but I just don't see how they're going to get an ultra light to have enough thrust to overcome whatever treadmill they could possibly conjure up.

Like I said, I'm still really pondering the possibilities myself. Maybe I'll change my mind if I see more definite info about it all. As it stands now, there could be a lot of room for interpretation and hair splitting. ;)

[speedminded]

I normally do, but I just don't see how they're going to get an ultra light to have enough thrust to overcome whatever treadmill they could possibly conjure up.Your hands alone could easily overcome that, probably one hand ;)

[DemonEyez]

The plane was supposed to be stationary as the ground under the treadmill, therefore NO AIRFLOW UNDER THE WINGS WHICH WOULD BE ESSENTIAL FOR LIFT, NOT FORWARD MOTION!
So, your variable states that if the plane was going faster than the belt on the treadmill, then yes it could take flight, (assuming it had enough power to propel itself to whatever speed it normally needs for takeoff on a runway, + the speed at which the treadmill is spinning at) Agreed, but that's not what the circumstances and plan are. Read the article. It states that the treadmill will spin at the SAME speed as what the plane would normally become airborne on a runway, therefore the plane would be stationary with no airflow under its wings. That's why and how it WOULDN'T lift off. Get it?

if the treadmill is moving at 100mph or 50000mph it wont matter. it only means the wheels on the plane are moving at that pace also. and the wheels are free spinning.

lets do that again

THE WHEELS ARE FREE SPINNING. Meaning they do not effect the air plane at all. so.. ANY.. and ALL threat generated by the engines on the WINGS of the plane will create thrust for the airplane and propel it forward. Again because the wheels have nothing to do with it and the wheels are the only point of contact with the treadmill.

Thus. treadmill moving forward with the plane, or backwards, or not moving has no effect. The only effect it may have is if it moves perpendicular to the direction the airplane needs to move.

I honestly cannot believe that people have yet to understand this simple concept.

Sigh.

[VooDooXII]

It's not quite as simple to grasp...it's actually sort of difficult to visualize.

Look at it this way. Imagine you're pushing a box that was on wheels with completely frictionless bearings.

Now imagine you were pushing a box that could magically levitate.

It's essentially the same effect. The wheels are there on a plane to help it move on the ground easily...that's it.

[Jecht]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4821/119317575593vt5.jpg

[Jaimecbr900]

Your hands alone could easily overcome that, probably one hand ;)

Yeah, but I have really strong hands.....;) :D

Seriously, if the plane's thrust can overcome the force of the treadmill, it will fly. I just have lots of questions about the details of how this is going to be done though. The rig itself will possibly contaminate the outcome in several ways.

I think it can fly, but I'm not sure that the "Mythbusters" will necessarily be able to show it. Let's see when the episode comes out.

[Jecht]

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/472/aniltr1.gifhttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7963/aniana6.gifhttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2333/anisjp8.gifhttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6456/anieqm9.gifhttp://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5720/anirpm6.gif

[IDCoconut]

Just think of a Sea Plane taking off a flowing river against its flow. It still takes off even if it has to fight the water flow. To say the least, a Sea Plane's floats has a lot more drag than unpowered, free-spinning wheels.

[Jecht]

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6282/119319160769kt6.jpg

[BuBBa DRiFT]

the plane will take off as long as the engine(s) can put out enough power to make the plane reach the lift off speed.

[Jecht]

the plane will take off as long as the engine(s) can put out enough power to make the plane reach the lift off speed.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5030/119319174273cw2.jpg

[BABY J]

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35971298&postcount=595

[VooDooXII]

Just think of a Sea Plane taking off a flowing river against its flow. It still takes off even if it has to fight the water flow. To say the least, a Sea Plane's floats has a lot more drag than unpowered, free-spinning wheels.

Nailed it :goodjob:

[Jecht]

What about a plane with anti-gravity?

[VooDooXII]

What about a plane with anti-gravity?

The hell is up with your posts today???

[d993s]

RIGHT, what the hell gives you the idea that a treadmill will effect the air that sits above it. Just because the treadmill is moving backwards, doesnt mean the air in free space is moving backwards as well. And IF that were the case, then the plane would actually generate MORE life.

Dumb.

Because, genius, you're not actually going anywhere when you're on a treadmill, no matter how fast the treadmill or the planes wheels are spinning. There is no air necessary for lift under the planes wings. Get it?

[On_Her_Face]

i love how there is name calling, that really proves ur point.. btw no lift

[speedminded]

Because, genius, you're not actually going anywhere when you're on a treadmill, no matter how fast the treadmill or the planes wheels are spinning. There is no air necessary for lift under the planes wings. Get it?lolol, dude...WAKE UP!!! You still don't get it. What powers the plane? How does it propel itself? AIR! It forces the air through its turbine or propellor pushing/pulling itself forward. The treadmill under the the FREE ROLLING WHEELS is 100% irrelevent, has NO effect on the speed of the plane or it's ability to propel itself forward what so ever...it will only make the wheels spin faster.

[man]

i love how there is name calling, that really proves ur point.. btw no lift

Wrong cockboy, lol

[d993s]

the plane will take off as long as the engine(s) can put out enough power to make the plane reach the lift off speed.

Exactly. It has to reach takeoff speed regardless of relative to what's below it, whether its on a treadmill, runway, or water. Friction plays a small factor, but more importantly it's the lift necessary for it to elevate, and for that a certain speed is required in proportion to what's below the plane, unless of course we're factoring in a strong headwind which would then simulate a higher speed and allow takeoff at a much slower speed.

[d993s]

lolol, dude...WAKE UP!!! You still don't get it. What powers the plane? How does it propel itself? AIR! It forces the air through its turbine or propellor pushing/pulling itself forward. The treadmill under the the FREE ROLLING WHEELS is 100% irrelevent, has NO effect on the speed of the plane or it's ability to propel itself forward what so ever...it will only make the wheels spin faster.

Dude! You wake up!!! What keeps a plane in the air???? The air under its wings!
If that's not the case, remove the wings, because by your explanation the wings on a plane are not necessary for lift!
Again, we're not talking about a helicopter or Harrier Jet, or a plane with angled engines that create vertical lift!!!!!!!
:lmfao:

[speedminded]

Imagine sitting on a skate board on a treadmill with a rope tied in front of you just like you're a waterskier or wake boarder...you can tie it to the couch or kitchen table, whatever. Now say the treadmill is turned on and you're holding onto the rope, will you fall off the back of the treadmill? You could sit there holding onto the rope with ONE finger and keep from falling off right? Now what if someone came up behind you and gave you a push....would they not be able to push you off the front of the treadmill? The force of their hand against you is no differant than the thrust from an airplanes engine...it doesn't matter that the ground below you is moving towards you because the wheels on a skate board, just like a airplane, are free spinning.

The plane will propel itself forward just like a regular runway, once it gets up to speed enough lift will be created under its wings to take off and fly.

[On_Her_Face]

Wrong cockboy, lol

jump in a fire. lol

[man]

Reading through the description on the website, something doesn't sound right. Sounds like they are gonna see if the plane will take off if it's held stationary on a treadmill that's moving backwards at takeoff speed.

[On_Her_Face]

Imagine sitting on a skate board on a treadmill with a rope tied in front of you just like you're a waterskier or wake boarder...you can tie it to the couch or kitchen table, whatever. Now say the treadmill is turned on and you're holding onto the rope, will you fall off the back of the treadmill? You could sit there holding onto the rope with ONE finger and keep from falling off right? Now what if someone came up behind you and gave you a push....would they not be able to push you off the front of the treadmill? The force of their hand against you is no differant than the thrust from an airplanes engine...it doesn't matter that the ground below you is moving towards you because the wheels on a skate board, just like a airplane, are free spinning.

The plane will propel itself forward just like a regular runway, once it gets up to speed enough lift will be created under its wings to take off and fly.

NO cause the treadmill would speed up to match the speed.

[speedminded]

Exactly. It has to reach takeoff speed regardless of relative to what's below it, whether its on a treadmill, runway, or water. Friction plays a small factor, but more importantly it's the lift necessary for it to elevate, and for that a certain speed is required in proportion to what's below the plane, unless of course we're factoring in a strong headwind which would then simulate a higher speed and allow takeoff at a much slower speed.What is preventing the plane from MOVING forward, just like it is taking off on a runway?

[Ruiner]

Reading through the description on the website, something doesn't sound right. Sounds like they are gonna see if the plane will take off if it's sitting on a treadmill that's moving backwards at takeoff speed.

The plane will have to move forward.

What they will prove is that the treadmill cannot keep the plane from moving forward when it applies the throttle.

[man]

NO cause the treadmill would speed up to match the speed.

Here's a question for you:

If the treadmill matches the speed, and the plane is unable to move forward, will the treadmill ever move?

[Ruiner]

Dude! You wake up!!! What keeps a plane in the air???? The air under its wings!
If that's not the case, remove the wings, because by your explanation the wings on a plane are not necessary for lift!
Again, we're not talking about a helicopter or Harrier Jet, or a plane with angled engines that create vertical lift!!!!!!!
:lmfao:

What he is saying is that the treadmill, even moving backwards, cannot stop the plane from moving forward, accelerating, and eventually reaching take-off speed.

The ONLY thing that the treadmill will do is spin the wheels. Nothing more.

[d993s]

Imagine sitting on a skate board on a treadmill with a rope tied in front of you just like you're a waterskier or wake boarder...you can tie it to the couch or kitchen table, whatever. Now say the treadmill is turned on and you're holding onto the rope, will you fall off the back of the treadmill? You could sit there holding onto the rope with ONE finger and keep from falling off right? Now what if someone came up behind you and gave you a push....would they not be able to push you off the front of the treadmill? The force of their hand against you is no differant than the thrust from an airplanes engine...it doesn't matter that the ground below you is moving towards you because the wheels on a skate board, just like a airplane, are free spinning.

The plane will propel itself forward just like a regular runway, once it gets up to speed enough lift will be created under its wings to take off and fly.

Yes, I agree it will move forward, but they state that the treadmill will be spinning at the same speed at which the plane will lift off on a runway.
In that scenario, it will NOT take off, because a planes engine provide FORWARD thrust, NOT VERTICAL LIFT, so it must rely on lift produced by air under its wings to lift off.

[Ruiner]

Here's a question for you:

If the treadmill matches the speed, and the plane is unable to move forward, will the treadmill ever move?

:lmfao::lmfao:

I always ask that question and it always leaves them stumped.

[man]

The plane will have to move forward.

What they will prove is that the treadmill cannot keep the plane from moving forward when it applies the throttle.

That's what I'm hoping, but something just caught me the wrong way.

[speedminded]

NO cause the treadmill would speed up to match the speed.The treadmill can be going TEN TIMES the speed of the plane and it still won't matter, the wheels will only be spinning 10 times faster.

[On_Her_Face]

Here's a question for you:

If the treadmill matches the speed, and the plane is unable to move forward, will the treadmill ever move?

yep they will both be moving, but not distance wise..

side note: i got a gas mask with a tube connected to it and its the ****, if u know what im sayin :goodjob:

[Ruiner]

Yes, I agree it will move forward, but they state that the treadmill will be spinning at the same speed at which the plane will lift off on a runway.
In that scenario, it will NOT take off, because a planes engine provide FORWARD thrust, NOT VERTICAL LIFT, so it must rely on lift produced by air under its wings to lift off.

The plane will still accelerate to a take-off speed and take off. The only thing that the treadmill will do is spin the wheels.

If a plane is in the air, are the wheels spinning? Nope. If you get out on the wheel strut and manually spin them with your hand while the plane is in flight, will the plane stop mid-air? Nope.

The same concept holds true with the treadmill. It has no real affect on the plane.

[On_Her_Face]

The treadmill can be going TEN TIMES the speed of the plane and it still won't matter, the wheels will only be spinning 10 times faster.

it doesn't matter if the plane is doing 1000 mph there wont be lift cause the plane will be moving in place.

[Ruiner]

yep they will both be moving, but not distance wise..

side note: i got a gas mask with a tube connected to it and its the ****, if u know what im sayin :goodjob:

If the plane is not moving distance wise, it does not have any air speed. Is that a correct assumption given what you are saying?

[d993s]

What he is saying is that the treadmill, even moving backwards, cannot stop the plane from moving forward, accelerating, and eventually reaching take-off speed.

The ONLY thing that the treadmill will do is spin the wheels. Nothing more.

Ok, so then the plane will have to at least DOUBLE its power output, right? (Since the only speed that matters is the speed relative to the ground, which is the only way that air will pass under its wings fast enough to create lift).
Now I'm not sure how much throttle a plane requires for lift-off, but I assume somewhere around 80% or more..........

[speedminded]

Yes, I agree it will move forward, but they state that the treadmill will be spinning at the same speed at which the plane will lift off on a runway.
In that scenario, it will NOT take off, because a planes engine provide FORWARD thrust, NOT VERTICAL LIFT, so it must rely on lift produced by air under its wings to lift off.Lift is automatically created when the plane is motion, the faster the planes goes the more lift that will be created...once it gets up to speed it will leave the ground.

[Ruiner]

it doesn't matter if the plane is doing 1000 mph there wont be lift cause the plane will be moving in place.

HOW can a plane be moving in place?!?!?

A plane is NOT like a car. It is not powered by its wheels. You HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that concept.

[man]

yep they will both be moving, but not distance wise..

side note: i got a gas mask with a tube connected to it and its the ****, if u know what im sayin :goodjob:

LOL, nice

But back on topic. Speed of a plane is based on moving air, therefore the plane would have to be moving for the treadmill to move.

[Ruiner]

Ok, so then the plane will have to at least DOUBLE its power output, right? (Since the only speed that matters is the speed relative to the ground, which is the only way that air will pass under its wings fast enough to create lift).
Now I'm not sure how much throttle a plane requires for lift-off, but I assume somewhere around 80% or more..........

No, the same output. All the treadmill will do is spin the wheels (which are already free-spinnig) faster.

[Ruiner]

LOL, nice

But back on topic. Speed of a plane is based on moving air, therefore the plane would have to be moving for the treadmill to move.

Exactly...

[On_Her_Face]

yes and that is why i believe it wont take off

[speedminded]

Ok, so then the plane will have to at least DOUBLE its power output, right? (Since the only speed that matters is the speed relative to the ground, which is the only way that air will pass under its wings fast enough to create lift).
Now I'm not sure how much throttle a plane requires for lift-off, but I assume somewhere around 80% or more..........Negative, no power increase at all is needed because the wheels are FREE SPINNING....

If the plane is moving forward at 50mph then the treadmill is moving backwards at 50mph....if the plane is going 50mph then the plane is still MOVING forward, as in not stationary. The only differance between a plane going 50mph on a runway and a plane going 50mph on a treadmill is the speed the wheels are spinning....it will be 50+50=100mph. THe plane is still moving forward at 50mph but its wheels are spinning at 100mph.

[Ruiner]

yes and that is why i believe it wont take off

Let's see if I can explain this further...

- You agree that a plane's engines PUSH on the air and that moves a plane forward, yes?
- That the wheels do not power the plane, right?
- The wheels are ONLY there to reduce the friction with the ground, yes?
- That the wheels are free spinning, right?

Do you agree with all of these?

[On_Her_Face]

LOL, nice

But back on topic. Speed of a plane is based on moving air, therefore the plane would have to be moving for the treadmill to move.


ok i do not think it is going to take off and this is why, you are running on a treadmill (yes i know a plane is not powered at the wheels) but lets just say im going on a treadmill with my jet powered farts.. there is no wind blowing in my face and im not moving (distance wise) there for no wind in my face so i can not take off (using my arms as wings)

just my prediction, no need to be hostile fellow IAers

[man]

ok i do not think it is going to take off and this is why, you are running on a treadmill (yes i know a plane is not powered at the wheels) but lets just say im going on a treadmill with my jet powered farts.. there is no wind blowing in my face and im not moving (distance wise) there for no wind in my face so i can not take off (using my arms as wings)

just my prediction, no need to be hostile fellow IAers

That almost works but instead of running, imagine you are on a skateboard.

[speedminded]

ok i do not think it is going to take off and this is why, you are running on a treadmill (yes i know a plane is not powered at the wheels) but lets just say im going on a treadmill with my jet powered farts.. there is no wind blowing in my face and im not moving (distance wise) there for no wind in my face so i can not take off (using my arms as wings)

just my prediction, no need to be hostile fellow IAersYou are powered by your legs that are in direct contact with the ground. If you were on rollerblades then the scenario would be the same.

[Ruiner]

I want to know if he agrees with my statements...

[speedminded]

That almost works but instead of running, imagine you are on a skateboard.or on a skateboard :tongue:

[On_Her_Face]

You are powered by your legs that are in direct contact with the ground. If you were on rollerblades then the scenario would be the same.

re-read my post lol.. im said lets say im not powered by my legs

[On_Her_Face]

I want to know if he agrees with my statements...

which one(s)

[Ruiner]

Look up about 6 or 7 posts. All 4 statements...


which one(s)

[man]

re-read my post lol.. im said lets say im not powered by my legs

but your feet would be a huge friction point on the treadmill. Your feet would be the reason you wouldn't move forward.

[On_Her_Face]

but your feet would be a huge friction point on the treadmill. Your feet would be the reason you wouldn't move forward.

pretend, jet powered bicycle then.. lol

[man]

pretend, jet powered bicycle then.. lol

sure, as long as you take the chain and pedals off.

[On_Her_Face]

Let's see if I can explain this further...

- You agree that a plane's engines PUSH on the air and that moves a plane forward, yes?
- That the wheels do not power the plane, right?
- The wheels are ONLY there to reduce the friction with the ground, yes?
- That the wheels are free spinning, right?

Do you agree with all of these?

yes sir

[VooDooXII]

The only reason the plane would stay in place is if the wind was also pushing against the plane with the same force that the thrust is pushing it forward...but in that case, the plane would lift off anyway.

[On_Her_Face]

well i wish this show would come on earlier lol

[speedminded]

pretend, jet powered bicycle then.. lolanything that has free spinning wheels...could be a shopping cart...doesn't matter.

[d993s]

Ok then, since more facts are made clear (the length of the treadmill is the same length as the runway) then the plane WILL take off.
Not having all the facts from the beginning will usually draw a wrong conclusion.

[Ruiner]

yes sir

Okay, with that said, take out a matchbox car with free spinning wheels. ****, any little car if you have one.

Now, take out a piece of paper and put the car on the paper. The paper will act like the treadmill. Hold onto the car and slowly push it forward...keep your hand on the car. Your hand is like the jet engine that is "pushing" the plane through the air.

Now, while pushing the car foward, pull the paper back at the same speed. Now, pull the paper back FASTER than you are pushing the car forward.

Do you need to push the car any harder? Nope. All that happens when you pull the paper back is that the wheels spin faster. Nothing more. The paper doesn't stop the car form moving forward.

****, push the car and release it while also pulling the paper back. The car will STILL move forward at the same speed that you pushed it.

THAT is why the plane will move forward...

[speedminded]

Ok then, since more facts are made clear (the length of the treadmill is the same length as the runway) then the plane WILL take off.
Not having all the facts from the beggining will usually draw a wrong conclusion.I have said that at least 6 times, directly quoting you OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I told you it is as long as the plane needs to take off, i've said it's at least 3,000 feet long, i've told you it IS NOT 5' long like a treadmill you see in a gym...

[d993s]

I have said that at least 6 times, directly quoting you OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I told you its as long as the plane needs to take off, i've said it's at least 3,000 feet long, i've told you it IS NOT 5' long like a treadmill you see in a gym...

Well somehow I missed it.

[speedminded]

Well somehow I missed it.Would you like the post number of said quotes, even the ones you've quoted me back on?

[On_Her_Face]

Okay, with that said, take out a matchbox car with free spinning wheels. ****, any little car if you have one.

Now, take out a piece of paper and put the car on the paper. The paper will act like the treadmill. Hold onto the car and slowly push it forward...keep your hand on the car. Your hand is like the jet engine that is "pushing" the plane through the air.

Now, while pushing the car foward, pull the paper back at the same speed. Now, pull the paper back FASTER than you are pushing the car forward.

Do you need to push the car any harder? Nope. All that happens when you pull the paper back is that the wheels spin faster. Nothing more. The paper doesn't stop the car form moving forward.

****, push the car and release it while also pulling the paper back. The car will STILL move forward at the same speed that you pushed it.

THAT is why the plane will move forward...

well slap my ass, and call me beth.

they are still gonna **** up and it wont take off.. i guess i see it now

ends the fun in this thread

[d993s]

Would you like the post number of said quotes, even the ones you've quoted me back on?

I obviously overlooked that fact (for some reason, don't know why) which caused me to insist on why it wouldn't work.

[Ruiner]

well slap my ass, and call me beth.

they are still gonna **** up and it wont take off.. i guess i see it now

ends the fun in this thread

Okay, Beth.

Hint - Trust me, it will take off on the show.

[Ruiner]

I obviously overlooked that fact (for some reason, don't know why) which caused me to insist on why it wouldn't work.

As long as you came around now, that's all that matters. :):goodjob:

[speedminded]

I obviously overlooked that fact (for some reason, don't know why) which caused me to insist on why it wouldn't work.If that was the case then the plane would simply taxi off the front of the treadmill and continue about its normal business until it got enough speed to take off.

[d993s]

Okay, Beth.

Hint - Trust me, it will take off on the show.

We can't trust you. You first have to learn more about Porsches. :D

[On_Her_Face]

god damnit school time.. this thread sucks now thanks ruiner :( lol

[Ruiner]

We can't trust you. You first have to learn more about Porsches. :D

Joking, right? What did I mess up on? :???:

[Ruiner]

god damnit school time.. this thread sucks now thanks ruiner :( lol

Sorry.

You can also try to pull your rolling suitcase on one of those "moving walkways" at the airport and experience the same effect.

[d993s]

Joking, right? What did I mess up on? :???:

You didn't really mess up, but you seemed clueless about specifics didn't have any answers about the mods (if any) on your 996TT back in the day at the Varsity. It's ok though, you can always pass it off as "not wanting to disclose info on mods". ;)

[Ruiner]

You didn't really mess up, but you seemed clueless about specifics didn't have any answers about the mods (if any) on your 996TT back in the day at the Varsity. It's ok though, you can always pass it off as "not wanting to disclose info on mods". ;)

I HONESTLY believe that you could not have been talking to me. There WERE some Porsche chip guys that were there many times that had little clue. Maybe it was them.

I can assure you that I knew exactly about the mods, their gains, the upgrade paths, etc since I first bought the car. Remember, I did all of my own work on my previous turbo, the 3000GT VR-4. I make it a point to know everything about my car.

Hell, I installed almost all of my mods. You must have me confused with someone else.

[d993s]

I HONESTLY believe that you could not have been talking to me. There WERE some Porsche chip guys that were there many times that had little clue. Maybe it was them.

I can assure you that I knew exactly about the mods, their gains, the upgrade paths, etc since I first bought the car. Remember, I did all of my own work on my previous turbo, the 3000GT VR-4. I make it a point to know everything about my car.

Hell, I installed almost all of my mods. You must have me confused with someone else.

Maybe. You must have had a friend with a blonde GF that drove your car that night. I guess it's possible.

[d993s]

What's a "Porsche chip guy"?

[speedminded]

Maybe. You must have had a friend with a blonde GF that drove your car that night. I guess it's possible.That was me, i took his girl and the TT out but he doesn't know...until now, thanks man. Sorry i don't know much about watercooled Porsches except how to drive the **** out of both of them.

[Ruiner]

Maybe. You must have had a friend with a blonde GF that drove your car that night. I guess it's possible.

Then it was me, but I can assure you that I did not "know" about my car. :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:I mean, I did my own mods! Perhaps I didn't want to discuss mods? It wasn't for lack of knowledge, though.

I can tell you exactly what the stock boost is vs what I can chip it up to on the stock turbos/fuel system. I can tell you the gains from an exhaust or a 6psi jump in boost. I can tell you how the coilover suspension is tuned or how the headers really don't provide that much hp gain over the stockers.

[Ruiner]

What's a "Porsche chip guy"?

There were some Upsolute reps there at a few meets.

[d993s]

That was me man, i took his girl and the TT out but he doesn't know...until now, thanks. Sorry i don't know much about watercooled Porsches except how to drive the **** out of both of them.

Cool. Did you JDM the **** out of it too?

[d993s]

There were some Upsolute reps there at a few meets.

Got it.

[Ruiner]

However, if you would like to ask me about mods, feel free to ask away. Ask me the same questions that you wanted to know about. No idea why I would seem "clueless" about mods to a car that I owned and helped mod on my own. Dunno...

[d993s]

Then it was me, but I can assure you that I did not "know" about my car. :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:I mean, I did my own mods! Perhaps I didn't want to discuss mods? It wasn't for lack of knowledge, though.

I can tell you exactly what the stock boost is vs what I can chip it up to on the stock turbos/fuel system. I can tell you the gains from an exhaust or a 6psi jump in boost. I can tell you how the coilover suspension is tuned or how the headers really don't provide that much hp gain over the stockers.

You mean reflash.............or did you have a one-of-a-kind OBD1 996TT?

[speedminded]

Cool. Did you JDM the **** out of it too?naw, I did however hang a soshinoya badge in the rear window.

[d993s]

However, if you would like to ask me about mods, feel free to ask away. Ask me the same questions that you wanted to know about. No idea why I would seem "clueless" about mods to a car that I owned and helped mod on my own. Dunno...

Why? Because there are a lot of people who have more $ than skills, and they prefer to take their cars to a shop and say "I want x amount of HP; do it".
That's not very impressive when it comes to "modding" a car.
I have more respect for DIY'ers.

[speedminded]

You mean reflash.............or did you have a one-of-a-kind OBD1 996TT?Helllllloooooo....Flashloader Chip.

*edit*
Here ya go, straight from AWE...

http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=2&PMoI=7&PEI=17&PP=996_tt_chips.cfm&PPT=Chips&IL=GIACChips

[Ruiner]

You mean reflash.............or did you have a one-of-a-kind OBD1 996TT?

Being that ODBII started in '96, no.

Actually, Upsolute didn't just do an ODBII flash like GIAC. Instead, they physically soldered another chip onto the main board if my memory serves me. That is why you had to send it off (physically take the ECU out of the car) to have the work done.

Like I said, I'm not "clueless" about the 996TTs...

[d993s]

Helllllloooooo....Flashloader Chip.

Right, and is that chip physically installed into the DME, or are its contents uploaded?
OBD1=chipped
OBD2=reflash

[speedminded]

Right, and is that chip physically installed into the DME, or are its contents uploaded?
OBD1=chipped
OBD2=reflashhe answered above...either way it's still "chipped", not just a reflash.

[Ruiner]

Why? Because there are a lot of people who have more $ than skills, and they prefer to take their cars to a shop and say "I want x amount of HP; do it".
That's not very impressive when it comes to "modding" a car.
I have more respect for DIY'ers.

You are talking to the wrong person. I am a DIY'er. Where did you get the idea that I wasn't? Remember, I built my 3000GT VR-4.

I put on my own suspension. I changed my own plugs. I changed my own oil/fluids. I put on my own exhaust (and 2 others on cars that belonged to friends). I installed my own SSK. I did all of my own work. I switched out the rear wiper.

Where did you get that idea from?

[speedminded]

You are talking to the wrong person. I am a DIY'er. Where did you get the idea that I wasn't? Remember, I built my 3000GT VR-4.

I put on my own suspension. I changed my own plugs. I changed my own oil/fluids. I put on my own exhaust (and 2 others on cars that belonged to friends). I installed my own SSK. I did all of my own work. I switched out the rear wiper.

Where did you get that idea from?Don't forget even helped me change your tire :tongue:

[Ruiner]

Don't forget even helped me change your tire :tongue:

Ahahahha, that was ****ed up. I had to have gotten that puncture in the ****ing parking lot. Gah.

Yeah, I'm still not sure where he got that I wasn't a "DIYer" on my Porsche. Many people aren't, but the 911 turbo owners that I know are.

Granted, I DID have to take it to someone so that they could corner balance it after I put the suspension on....yikes!

[d993s]

You are talking to the wrong person. I am a DIY'er. Where did you get the idea that I wasn't? Remember, I built my 3000GT VR-4.

I put on my own suspension. I changed my own plugs. I changed my own oil/fluids. I put on my own exhaust (and 2 others on cars that belonged to friends). I installed my own SSK. I did all of my own work. I switched out the rear wiper.

Where did you get that idea from?

I didn't say you weren't a DIY'er. I just stated I have more respect for DIY'ers.
I talked to a guy who claimed he owned the 996TT, and he seemed rather clueless; maybe it was someone else........
And the GIAC "option" for the "chip" installs the chip for multiple programs, as opposed to a usual reflash that's done by uploading software into the DME, without removing it and taking out any chips.

[speedminded]

Ahahahha, that was ****ed up. I had to have gotten that puncture in the ****ing parking lot. Gah.

Yeah, I'm still not sure where he got that I wasn't a "DIYer" on my Porsche. Many people aren't, but the 911 turbo owners that I know are.

Granted, I DID have to take it to someone so that they could corner balance it after I put the suspension on....yikes!WTH, you telling me you don't keep 4 scales at your house?! What kind of Porsche owner are you that doesn't corner balance his car after adding weight like a picnic basket before taking his girl to the park?!!! Jeeeze, sportscar drivers these days :rolleyes:

[Ruiner]

I didn't say you weren't a DIY'er. I just stated I have more respect for DIY'ers.
I talked to a guy who claimed he owned the 996TT, and he seemed rather clueless; maybe it was someone else........
And the GIAC "option" for the "chip" installs the chip for multiple programs, as opposed to a usual reflash that's done by uploading software into the DME, without removing it and taking out any chips.

It installs for multiple options for which you can switch a "key fob" to chose a program depending on your fuel as well.

It flashes..sorry. When I say "chipped" I don't always literally mean a new "chip" in the ECU.

[On_Her_Face]

btw, david did i tell you i might be buying a porsche? :yes:

[d993s]

btw, david did i tell you i might be buying a porsche? :yes:

NO! You're already a cocky little ******!
What were you looking at?
The 996TT is an excellent choice for the $; some have made over 800whp with bolt-ons. You can find stock ones for around $50k.

[speedminded]

NO! You're already a cocky little ******!
What were you looking at?
The 996TT is an excellent choice for the $; some have made over 800whp with bolt-ons. You can find stock ones for around $50k.From 450 to 800hp with bolt-ons? Dyno's please and how many minutes did the car last?

[Ruiner]

NO! You're already a cocky little ******!
What were you looking at?
The 996TT is an excellent choice for the $; some have made over 800whp with bolt-ons. You can find stock ones for around $50k.

800whp = over $60,000 in "bolt on" mods, minimum (labor included). You will have to do the internals as well. That is one hell of a process that will cost you more than what you pay for the car on the used market.

Here is the parts list from the IA 800hp kit:'


Included in this kit:




Custom Garrett turbos machined in KKK housings to ensure no fitment issues.

Custom spring wastegates with custom billet hold downs.

High flow Muffler (loud or street)

100 Cell racing cats (pair)

Custom billet Compressor bypass valves. (pair)

EVO Flo Intake

SS triangle collector stainless steel headers

GIAC Custom software GT700 software

Aluminum intake ducts

High pressure silicone hose kit including "F" hose for BOVs

high capacity fuel pump

SS fuel line, custom fittings and filter

High capacity custom fuel injectors

CNCed billet adapter plate with venturi for custom throttle body

Large throttle body

Modified "Y"pipe (core return)

Race Rods

GT3R oil pump

Aircraft quality head studs

Ported and polished heads

custom valve springs

blueprinted and balanced internal componets

high strength rod bolts

Light Weight flywheel

Custom iA Pressure plate and disc

Enclosed Transport to iA and return home

all labor associated with build and kit

Flashload switch technology is available as an option

iA Clutch Kit

[d993s]

800whp = over $60,000 in "bolt on" mods, minimum (labor included). You will have to do the internals as well. That is one hell of a process that will cost you more than what you pay for the car on the used market.

Here is the parts list from the IA 800hp kit:'


Included in this kit:




Custom Garrett turbos machined in KKK housings to ensure no fitment issues.

Custom spring wastegates with custom billet hold downs.

High flow Muffler (loud or street)

100 Cell racing cats (pair)

Custom billet Compressor bypass valves. (pair)

EVO Flo Intake

SS triangle collector stainless steel headers

GIAC Custom software GT700 software

Aluminum intake ducts

High pressure silicone hose kit including "F" hose for BOVs

high capacity fuel pump

SS fuel line, custom fittings and filter

High capacity custom fuel injectors

CNCed billet adapter plate with venturi for custom throttle body

Large throttle body

Modified "Y"pipe (core return)

Race Rods

GT3R oil pump

Aircraft quality head studs

Ported and polished heads

custom valve springs

blueprinted and balanced internal componets

high strength rod bolts

Light Weight flywheel

Custom iA Pressure plate and disc

Enclosed Transport to iA and return home

all labor associated with build and kit

Flashload switch technology is available as an option

iA Clutch Kit


Sure, that's one way of doing it..........but not essential. Imagine Auto is not the only shop that can do it, most of it is a DIY process for some people.

[speedminded]

800whp = over $60,000 in "bolt on" mods, minimum (labor included). You will have to do the internals as well. That is one hell of a process that will cost you more than what you pay for the car on the used market.

Here is the parts list from the IA 800hp kit:'


Included in this kit:




Custom Garrett turbos machined in KKK housings to ensure no fitment issues.

Custom spring wastegates with custom billet hold downs.

High flow Muffler (loud or street)

100 Cell racing cats (pair)

Custom billet Compressor bypass valves. (pair)

EVO Flo Intake

SS triangle collector stainless steel headers

GIAC Custom software GT700 software

Aluminum intake ducts

High pressure silicone hose kit including "F" hose for BOVs

high capacity fuel pump

SS fuel line, custom fittings and filter

High capacity custom fuel injectors

CNCed billet adapter plate with venturi for custom throttle body

Large throttle body

Modified "Y"pipe (core return)

Race Rods

GT3R oil pump

Aircraft quality head studs

Ported and polished heads

custom valve springs

blueprinted and balanced internal componets

high strength rod bolts

Light Weight flywheel

Custom iA Pressure plate and disc

Enclosed Transport to iA and return home

all labor associated with build and kit

Flashload switch technology is available as an option

iA Clutch Kit
bingo, i know exactly what's involved for 650-700hp and it's MUCH more than just "bolt-ons" ;)

[speedminded]

Sure, that's one way of doing it..........but not essential. Imagine Auto is not the only shop that can do it, most of it is a DIY process for some people.List the "bolt-ons" and show the dyno.

[Ruiner]

Sure, that's one way of doing it..........but not essential. Imagine Auto is not the only shop that can do it, most of it is a DIY process for some people.

Not on a 3.6L flat-6 it isn't....not for that type of horsepower.

[d993s]

List the "bolt-ons" and show the dyno.

I have to do some searching........(will take some time), but it has been done.
Subract the profit that a shop makes off a customer for labor and parts and you get actual cost that a DIY will pay.

[Ruiner]

I have to do some searching........(will take some time), but it has been done.
Subract the profit that a shop makes off a customer for labor and parts and you get actual cost that a DIY will pay.

For 700+awhp, you need to open up the engine and put it back. That, alone, is a 65hr process and you have to have special machines to do the job.

[speedminded]

I have to do some searching........(will take some time), but it has been done.
Subract the profit that a shop makes off a customer for labor and parts and you get actual cost that a DIY will pay.I didn't ask for a cost, didn't say anything about what it would cost...just saying 800whp on a stock engine isn't going to happen unless you expect it to grenade within minutes.

[d993s]

Not on a 3.6L flat-6 it isn't....not for that type of horsepower.

Well your local dealer tells people not change their own O2 sensors..........depends on what you know and what you're willing to do yourself.
Some people pay $1000 to have a bolt-on nitrous kit installed.

[speedminded]

Well your local dealer tells people not change their own O2 sensors..........depends on what you know and what you're willing to do yourself.
Some people pay $1000 to have a bolt-on nitrous kit installed.It has nothing to do with who is doing the work or what they are charging or what was spent on it.

[Ruiner]

It has nothing to do with who is doing the work or what they are charging or what was spent on it.

Correct. Above 600-650awhp, it is typically suggested to go with stronger set of rods/pistons in the 3.6 boxer engine. I know this as I have a friend that owns a shop in Cali that does this very thing...he has tried it on his cars and knows the cut-off point for the stock internals.

[d993s]

For 700+awhp, you need to open up the engine and put it back. That, alone, is a 65hr process and you have to have special machines to do the job.

Yeah right.........just like 8 years ago when a 2JZ couldn't make 600whp on a stock internal motor......or when a 1.8t motor couldn't make 300whp.......
Now they magically can.

I have a weak signal on my wifi card now; I'll look up some info later.

[Ruiner]

Yeah right.........just like 8 years ago when a 2JZ couldn't make 600whp on a stock internal motor......or when a 1.8t motor couldn't make 300whp.......
Now they magically can.

I have a weak signal on my wifi card now; I'll look up some info later.

I know many 996TT owners on 6speedonline who have tried to "push" the limits of the stock internals and bent a few rods... They all seem to fail around 650ish awhp. Some before, some later.

[d993s]

I know many 996TT owners on 6speedonline who have tried to "push" the limits of the stock internals and bent a few rods... They all seem to fail around 650ish awhp. Some before, some later.

Well I know 1 guy makes 850+whp on stock internals, GT3076WG turbos, and 110 octane. Tuning is the key.

[Ruiner]

Well I know 1 guy makes 850+whp on stock internals, GT3076WG turbos, and 110 octane. Tuning is the key.

I'd love to know who he is 'cause he seems to have some miracle 996TT...

[d993s]

I'd love to know who he is 'cause he seems to have some miracle 996TT...

Yeah, that's what a shop would say.......

[speedminded]

Yeah right.........just like 8 years ago when a 2JZ couldn't make 600whp on a stock internal motor......or when a 1.8t motor couldn't make 300whp.......
Now they magically can.

I have a weak signal on my wifi card now; I'll look up some info later.Well please enlighten us as soon as you can, I know people currently building 750whp Porsche's right now and i'm sure they would love to know about these "secrets".

On that note, Cleve's car was a blast to get mutilated by in the mountains...

[Ruiner]

Yeah, that GT2 belongs to Cleve and it has a ton of internal work done to it.

[Ruiner]

Yeah, that's what a shop would say.......

No, 850whp on the stock internals of a 3.6L boxer engine is not going to happen. It was opened up. Otherwise, it will pop very quickly.

[d993s]

Well please enlighten us as soon as you can, I know people currently building 750whp Porsche's right now and i'm sure they would love to know about these "secrets".

On that note, this car was a blast to get mutilated by in the mountains...

No secrets, just bolt-ons and tuning as with any other car. I think he tweaked his GIAC software.

Nice car in the pics!

[speedminded]

Yeah, that GT2 belongs to Cleve and it has a ton of internal work done to it.Yep, shipped out west...colorado maybe? and thinking it was somewhere in the $40k range for the build? The car's been long since sold though :-/

[Ruiner]

Yep, shipped out west...colorado maybe? and thinking it was somewhere in the $40k range for the build? The car's been long since sold though :-/

Stephen Kasper at Imagine Auto built it. It was the GT700 kit (maybe the 750). Kansas...

[On_Her_Face]

i don't know ruiner, but david, d993s, does know his ****, however i do not know german cars very well(i know a little about e36 bimmers)

so i can't really back him up on this one

[IDCoconut]

The more I look at the 996's, the more they're starting to be appealing. The price tags on them compared to the 993's don't hurt either. I'm mainly talking the Turbos.

I bet you a 996 Turbo can take off a treadmill runway. It would need to be on neutral and have jets though....

[Fast Shadow]

800rwhp with bolt ons on a 996TT :lmfao:

I just drove a 1994 930T the other day w/ the 3.6L motor. It had a GT35R at 1 bar and was making 550rwhp on pump. The motor was fully built by Imagine, there's no way it could hold up to that much power otherwise. Now that it's built it can probably take 700rwhp or more.

[speedminded]

800rwhp with bolt ons on a 996TT :lmfao:

I just drove a 1994 930T the other day w/ the 3.6L motor. It had a GT35R at 1 bar and was making 550rwhp on pump. The motor was fully built by Imagine, there's no way it could hold up to that much power otherwise. Now that it's built it can probably take 700rwhp or more.You mean '84? The last year of the 930 was 1989 :slap:

...and all 930's are Turbo ;)

[Julio]

Back on topic..

I dont see the plane going anywhere but sideways.

[On_Her_Face]

it will crash and burn

[Ruiner]

You mean '84? The last year of the 930 was 1989 :slap:

...and all 930's are Turbo ;)

Yeah, the '94 was a 964 (965 if you really want to be specific) turbo like in the movie Bad Boys...

[Ruiner]

Back on topic..

I dont see the plane going anywhere but sideways.

That's a shame...

[bastarling84]

It's the same concept of putting a skateboard on a treadmill. The plane will just sit there while the wheels roll underneath with the jet off. With the jet on, it is going to roll forward and lift. The only problem I foresee is possible steering issues with so much force on the wheels.

[speedminded]

It's the same concept of putting a skateboard on a treadmill. The plane will just sit there while the wheels roll underneath with the jet off. With the jet on, it is going to roll forward and lift. The only problem I foresee is possible steering issues with so much force on the wheels.Planes don't steer with their wheels unless they're taxi'ing at slow speeds...anything over [estimating] say 30 to 60mph and they can use the flaps and aerolons for direction.

[Ruiner]

Planes don't steer with their wheels unless they're taxi'ing at slow speeds...anything over [estimating] say 30 to 60mph and they can use the flaps and aerolons for direction.

Shhhhhhhhhh, don't use logic here.

[bastarling84]

Planes don't steer with their wheels unless they're taxi'ing at slow speeds...anything over [estimating] say 30 to 60mph and they can use the flaps and aerolons for direction.
Oh, well then I guess my argument was worthless. Carry on.

[speedminded]

Not quite...because the component that is providing the force forward (jet turbines) is not in contact with the force that is working against it (the treadmill runway).

It would stay in place if the wind was pushing against it as well, but then again...with enough wind force, the plane would lift off anyway.It's exactly the same as a skateboard on a "tread mill" in a sense of free wheeling wheels and what propels it has nothing to do with the wheels.

[VooDooXII]

It's exactly the same as a skateboard on a "tread mill" in a sense of free wheeling wheels and what propels it has nothing to do with the wheels.

Ahh, never mind...I read his post wrong. :screwy:

[Echonova]

The plane will only take off if it's equipped with NAAWWWSSSSS.

[koukis14]

The plane will only take off if it's equipped with NAAWWWSSSSS.
And V-tech

[3.5altman]

that red head on mythbusters, can get it homie

[Ruiner]

that red head on mythbusters, can get it homie

Kari > *

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/593/kari16io.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari16io.jpg)

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6927/kari27bm.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari27bm.jpg)

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2319/kari39gw.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari39gw.jpg)

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/4050/kari49bq.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari49bq.jpg)

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/6127/kari55gu.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari55gu.jpg)

[VooDooXII]

that red head on mythbusters, can get it homie

:lmao: There have been not one, but two threads on this girl.

...but yea, she's cute.

[Fast Shadow]

You mean '84? The last year of the 930 was 1989 :slap:

...and all 930's are Turbo ;)

I had a brainfart, it was a 964 turbo.

[speedminded]

5 days, who wants to place a "friendly" wager? :D

[BKgen®]

Kari > *

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/593/kari16io.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari16io.jpg)

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6927/kari27bm.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari27bm.jpg)

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2319/kari39gw.th.jpg (http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari39gw.jpg)

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/4050/kari49bq.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari49bq.jpg)

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/6127/kari55gu.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kari55gu.jpg)

reps for troof!

[VooDooXII]

December 12th is edging closer and closer.

[Nittanys1]

nice thanks for the post! I'll be setting a reminder

[speedminded]

December 12th is edging closer and closer.ohh, it is the 12th...i was thinking it was the 10th! :doh:

[Alan®]

i had totally forgot about this ****

[DaX]

Wow, this thread is huge! I'm going to say no, unless the prop-wash (if it's even a puller and not a pusher) is large enough to create lift on the wing. He could always get going and pin the stick back in his stomach and get the front off the ground, but sustained flight? - I'm going to say nah.

[speedminded]

Wow, this thread is huge! I'm going to say no, unless the prop-wash (if it's even a puller and not a pusher) is large enough to create lift on the wing. He could always get going and pin the stick back in his stomach and get the front off the ground, but sustained flight? - I'm going to say nah.lol @ prop wash. Quite an imagination for someone that can't grasp such a simple concept :tongue:

It's already been stated the conveyor belt, which is the length of a normal runway, will be rotating towards the plane the SAME speed as the forward motion of the plane correct? Repeat after me, same speed as the FORWARD MOTION of the airplane. That would mean only one thing, the plane is indeed propelling itself forward, if it wasn't then the conveyor wouldn't be moving either...get it?

Now that you've established the plane IS moving forward, as in if you're inside looking out the windows at the nearby trees or buildings they are moving past you...just as if you're driving a car down the highway. Since the plane is moving foward then there is no reason lift is not being created under the wings once the planes gets up to speed. The only effect the conveyor belt underneath will have is the wheels on the plane will be spinning twice as fast as the forward motion of the plane.

The speed of the plane + the speed of the conyer = the speed/RPM's of the wheels. The plane will always remain propelling itself forward exactly the same as any other runway, only the free spinning wheels will be rotating faster.

[Ruiner]

Oh yes, the time is near. How people cannot grasp this concept is beyond me, though. Oh well...

[Jaimecbr900]

We should all get together that night somewhere to drink beer and eat some wings while watching the show. ;)

[speedminded]

We should all get together that night somewhere to drink beer and eat some wings while watching the show. ;)I second this proposition :goodjob: The IA get's schooled meet :D

[Deke]

eh **** it, I can't wait for this show so hopefully everyone can stop talking about this dumbass topic.

[Bballjamal]

Hell, I just wanna see a conveyor belt as long as a runway lol

[DaX]

Hell, I just wanna see a conveyor belt as long as a runway lol

Yeah, a 2000-5000 foot treadmill? it will be nuts.

Speedminded - if indeed the plane is moving forward WRT the ground and passes the stall speed, then yes, there will be liftoff. I was assuming the plane would be sitting still WRT the earth, but moving WRT the belt. There's no way I'm reading 20+ pages of posts to see what has been discussed before or not.

I'll still stick with my original thought saying NO, just to make it interesting.

[On_Her_Face]

well ruiner i'm going to make a small bet with you, even though i have never met you.. but 10 dollars to the winner at the next varsity meet. you know my take on this matter :D

[Ruiner]

well ruiner i'm going to make a small bet with you, even though i have never met you.. but 10 dollars to the winner at the next varsity meet. you know my take on this matter :D

If you want. Honestly, I'd go with my answer if I was you, but that's your call. :)

[Ruiner]

For all you doubters:

If they can prove that the plane moves forward on a conveyor belt, would you agree that given a long enough belt, it would take off?

yes or no?

[DaX]

If it moves forward on the conveyor belt, yes. If that's the case, then the conveyor belt is as good as it not even being there.

[speedminded]

If it moves forward on the conveyor belt, yes. If that's the case, then the conveyor belt is as good as it not even being there.lol EXACTLY! It's free spinning wheels, it doesn't matter how fast or even what direction the conveyor belt is spinning...the plane will still propel itself forward just as it would any other time.

[On_Her_Face]

For all you doubters:

If they can prove that the plane moves forward on a conveyor belt, would you agree that given a long enough belt, it would take off?

yes or no?

im still taking that bet with you. :yes:

[DaX]

lol EXACTLY! It's free spinning wheels, it doesn't matter how fast or even what direction the conveyor belt is spinning...the plane will still propel itself forward just as it would any other time.

My whole thought process was that they would be matching the speed of the belt with that of the airplane but in the opposite direction, thus canceling out all forward motion. If that was the case you could get away with a conveyor belt as short as the airplane's wheelbase.

I'm still saying no. :D

[Wurm]

dont forget ruiner i got 5 on no

[speedminded]

My whole thought process was that they would be matching the speed of the belt with that of the airplane but in the opposite direction, thus canceling out all forward motion. If that was the case you could get away with a conveyor belt as short as the airplane's wheelbase.

I'm still saying no. :DA planes speed isn't measured at the wheels. Nobody cares how fast the wheels are spinning, it's the speed of the air at which the plane passes through and is measured by the ram pressure through a pitot tube.

[BABY J]

**** won't take off.


~ runs

[Julio]

I have changed my mind... The plane will take off.

[bigdare23]

Decided to talk a few you back to school. I copied from my Thermodynamics textbook.




Gas turbines are particularly suited for aircraft propulsion because of their favorable power-to-weight ratios. The turbojet engine is commonly used for this purpose. As illustrated in Fig. X.XX, this type of engine consists of three main sections: the diffuser, the gas generator, and the nozzle. The diffuser placed before the compressor decelerates the incoming air relative to the engine. A pressure rise known as the ram effect is associated with this deceleration. The gas generator section consists of a compressor, combustor, and turbine, with the same functions as the corresponding components of a stationary gas turbine power plant. In a turbojet engine, the turbine power output need only be sufficient to drive the compressor and auxiliary equipment, however. The gases leave the turbine at a pressure significantly greater than atmospheric and expand through the nozzle to a high velocity before being discharged to the surroundings. The overall change in the velocity of the gases relative to the engine gives rise to the propulsive force, or thrust. Some turbojets are equipped with an afterburner, as shown in Fig X.XX. This is essentially a reheat device in which additional fuel is injected into the gas exiting the turbine and burned, producing a higher temperature at the nozzle inlet than would be achieved otherwise. As a consequence, a greater nozzle exit velocity is attained, resulting in increased thrust.


So read this before you vote, so you wont make yourself look stupid :goodjob:

[Kdanzig]

When is this airing exactly??

[Kyle]

Although I said yes and I am 99.99% sure its right I wannna ask some aerospace engineers what they think. ~knocks on roommates door~

[bigdare23]

My whole thought process was that they would be matching the speed of the belt with that of the airplane but in the opposite direction, thus canceling out all forward motion. If that was the case you could get away with a conveyor belt as short as the airplane's wheelbase.

I'm still saying no. :D


You are semi-correct. Go back to your FBD days. The treadmill will be producing a equal yet opposite force on the wheel due to frictions (rolling motion), but that doesn't include the force of the thrust acting on the plane itself.

[bigdare23]

Let B1 and B2 be two rigid bodies in motion. We define rolling to exist between B1 and B2 if during their motion:
1. A continuous sequence of points on the surface of B1 comes into one-to-one contact with a continuous sequence of points on the surface of B2.

2. At each instant during the interval of the motion, the contacting points have the same velocity vector.


Note that according to this definition there can be no slipping or sliding between the surface B1 and B2 if rolling exists.



So if you label the wheel B1 and the treadmill B2 the point where the wheel touches the treadmill the velocities would be the same. This would cause the plane to remain still on the tread mill. Now, incorporate the thrust. Since the treadmill is moving at a constant velocity, thrust from the engine would force the wheel to overcome the velocity of the treadmill, causing forward motion, and ultimately lead to lift.


I deserves some positive reps ;)

[Ruiner]

My whole thought process was that they would be matching the speed of the belt with that of the airplane but in the opposite direction, thus canceling out all forward motion. If that was the case you could get away with a conveyor belt as short as the airplane's wheelbase.

I'm still saying no. :D

You are saying no, the plane won't advance forward on the treadmill and won't take off?

[Ruiner]

When is this airing exactly??

12th (Wednesday) @ 9pm? Maybe 8pm, but I think 9pm.

[Ruiner]

dont forget ruiner i got 5 on no

On "no" that it won't advance down the treadmill and/or that it won't take off?

Noted

[RandomGuy]

20$ on it'll take off and/or move forward along the conveyor... anyone want to take me up on that?

if you win i'll paypal you the funds immediately

[speedminded]

20$ on it'll take off and/or move forward along the conveyor... anyone want to take me up on that?

if you win i'll paypal you the funds immediatelyMe too but make it $200 and any doubters have to be in agreement 48 hours before the show airs. ;)

[Nittanys1]

i want in that it will take off!!!

[Echonova]

I can't wait for the 12th so this thread will die.