The God Delusion-Richard Dawkins

[metalman]

Again, some here demand 'evidence' of a God when they are in fact living with such evidence within them. The very demand of evidence is laughable. Its all AROUND US.

One can START by considering one minuscule item....say the endocrine system of the human body. The extremely delicate nature of the balance of body chemistry where just one minor detail being off screws up and/or kills the whole thing. Study that awhile.....Then add to that the millions of other lifeforms and THEIR delicate systems, all which must be in harmony with each other for life to continue...how each one fits perfectly within the system...and on and on. Eventually we'll get around to details within the earths foundation that are evidence of instant creation etc but for now just start with the stupidly obvious.

But of course...one might say...this all came about accidentally?? By chance???? Yeahhhhhhhh sure. Now thinking that is some faith if I ever saw it. Talk about faith in the face of evidence otherwise! LOL..

The list of EVIDENCE is virtually endless. One may prefer to read into that evidence what conclusion makes them happy...BUT to suggest that there is no evidence is plainly stupid.....and WISHFUL THINKING put forth by people who prefer that there be no God/Creator and subsequent accountability.

Also...using the fact that man has free moral choice to act as evidence that there is no God is seriously flawed reasoning. That again is another piece of evidence that the Creator God of the Bible just may exist.

Please dont take any of this as an personal attack against anyone who might be atheist. I fully understand the typical reasons that persons often embrace that belief beyond a hope that there is no accountability. In my experience most have a reason...that typically being the misuse of religion and/or distortion of it.

[alpine_aw11]

Again, some here demand 'evidence' of a God when they are in fact living with such evidence within them. The very demand of evidence is laughable. Its all AROUND US.

One can START by considering one minuscule item....say the endocrine system of the human body. The extremely delicate nature of the balance of body chemistry where just one minor detail being off screws up and/or kills the whole thing. Study that awhile.....Then add to that the millions of other lifeforms and THEIR delicate systems, all which must be in harmony with each other for life to continue...how each one fits perfectly within the system...and on and on. Eventually we'll get around to details within the earths foundation that are evidence of instant creation etc but for now just start with the stupidly obvious.

But of course...one might say...this all came about accidentally?? By chance???? Yeahhhhhhhh sure. Now thinking that is some faith if I ever saw it. Talk about faith in the face of evidence otherwise! LOL..

The list of EVIDENCE is virtually endless. One may prefer to read into that evidence what conclusion makes them happy...BUT to suggest that there is no evidence is plainly stupid.....and WISHFUL THINKING put forth by people who prefer that there be no God/Creator and subsequent accountability.

Also...using the fact that man has free moral choice to act as evidence that there is no God is seriously flawed reasoning. That again is another piece of evidence that the Creator God of the Bible just may exist.

Please dont take any of this as an personal attack against anyone who might be atheist. I fully understand the typical reasons that persons often embrace that belief beyond a hope that there is no accountability. In my experience most have a reason...that typically being the misuse of religion and/or distortion of it.

I know what you're getting at, but personally I believe in evolution and that things did in fact grow and change from tiny insignificant organisms to produce what we are today. I have a big problem with the idea that God is the proverbial kid with a magnifying glass standing over an anthill. I do not think the Earth was created with human beings as a part of it, nothing has been found that points to any evidence of human life ever existing until fairly recently, considering the age of the Earth. If there is in fact, a creator, which I've stated is not impossible and I have not ruled it out, I wouldn't like to view it in the aspect that religion has put forth in that the Earth simply popped up with human life included. I don't believe in the Gods of religions because quite simply the way God is presented makes him/her/it to be a childish and maniacal douchebag with no concerns other than fulfilling self interest and power. It's not about accountability, it is about exclusively cherishing the life that we are given and not wasting it on living it to God's standards in fear of our day of judgement. I would rather value the time I am given here than spend it waiting for a supposed eternal life and being accountable for fulfilling God's wishes.

[David88vert]

I know what you're getting at, but personally I believe in evolution and that things did in fact grow and change from tiny insignificant organisms to produce what we are today. I have a big problem with the idea that God is the proverbial kid with a magnifying glass standing over an anthill. I do not think the Earth was created with human beings as a part of it, nothing has been found that points to any evidence of human life ever existing until fairly recently, considering the age of the Earth. If there is in fact, a creator, which I've stated is not impossible and I have not ruled it out, I wouldn't like to view it in the aspect that religion has put forth in that the Earth simply popped up with human life included. I don't believe in the Gods of religions because quite simply the way God is presented makes him/her/it to be a childish and maniacal douchebag with no concerns other than fulfilling self interest and power. It's not about accountability, it is about exclusively cherishing the life that we are given and not wasting it on living it to God's standards in fear of our day of judgement. I would rather value the time I am given here than spend it waiting for a supposed eternal life and being accountable for fulfilling God's wishes.

It's actually easier to disprove evolutionary theory than religion. Evolution involves finite observations, while religion only requires faith. Evolutionary theory as it currently exist is fatally flawed, as many observations poke huge holes in it. Granted, it is still an amazing hypothesis, and was written in a time when we did not have the power to observe and calculate as we do today. I am sure that it will be rewritten again and again as they gather more data. Only with observation and time can they determine if they wish to stick to a theory.

[Maniacc]

It's actually easier to disprove evolutionary theory than religion. Evolution involves finite observations, while religion only requires faith. Evolutionary theory as it currently exist is fatally flawed, as many observations poke huge holes in it. Granted, it is still an amazing hypothesis, and was written in a time when we did not have the power to observe and calculate as we do today. I am sure that it will be rewritten again and again as they gather more data. Only with observation and time can they determine if they wish to stick to a theory.

Theory this theory that.

When it comes to a scientific theory, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory#Science it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or that it's a theory with no evidence to back it up. Evolution, the big bang, they're all events that 'could've' taken place and just because someone says that it covered in flaws doesn't disprove it. Big bang - http://www.deusdiapente.net/science/bbt.php

Lemme add something else.

A lot of people may say that evolution has yet to be observed. Well, so much for THAT argument, eh? http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...n-the-lab.html

I mean, if you guys want to see a monkey give birth to a human.

Then the type of evolution that you guys are looking for just can not be observed. And asking for it would be idiotic.

[David88vert]

A lot of people may say that evolution has yet to be observed. Well, so much for THAT argument, eh? http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...n-the-lab.html

Your example is that of a bacterium having a mutation, not the creation of a new species - they are still bacterium. There is a huge difference between the two. There are lots of mutations in this world, in fact, plenty of humans have them also. But that does not mean that you suddenly can go form homo sapiens to homo erectus. In fact, they can't even map all the genetic differences between the 2 species yet.

Show me a genetic change from one species to another. That is the core belief that one species can give birth to a new improved species. Show me one species that you can definitively show transformation through natural genetic mutation. Science has yet to find an observable link between 2 species as such. Currently, all "links" are not substantiated by genetics. They have yet to show that a naturally occuring genetic mutation improves a species, and can be passed on to future offspring, to the point of creating a new species.

[Maniacc]

Again, some here demand 'evidence' of a God when they are in fact living with such evidence within them. The very demand of evidence is laughable. Its all AROUND US.

One can START by considering one minuscule item....say the endocrine system of the human body. The extremely delicate nature of the balance of body chemistry where just one minor detail being off screws up and/or kills the whole thing. Study that awhile.....Then add to that the millions of other lifeforms and THEIR delicate systems, all which must be in harmony with each other for life to continue...how each one fits perfectly within the system...and on and on. Eventually we'll get around to details within the earths foundation that are evidence of instant creation etc but for now just start with the stupidly obvious.

But of course...one might say...this all came about accidentally?? By chance???? Yeahhhhhhhh sure. Now thinking that is some faith if I ever saw it. Talk about faith in the face of evidence otherwise! LOL..

The list of EVIDENCE is virtually endless. One may prefer to read into that evidence what conclusion makes them happy...BUT to suggest that there is no evidence is plainly stupid.....and WISHFUL THINKING put forth by people who prefer that there be no God/Creator and subsequent accountability.

Also...using the fact that man has free moral choice to act as evidence that there is no God is seriously flawed reasoning. That again is another piece of evidence that the Creator God of the Bible just may exist.

Please dont take any of this as an personal attack against anyone who might be atheist. I fully understand the typical reasons that persons often embrace that belief beyond a hope that there is no accountability. In my experience most have a reason...that typically being the misuse of religion and/or distortion of it.

It'll be pretty retarded to say that everything happened by chance and that everything was created by nothing. I understand why people will argue this. It's dumb and just doesn't make sense. But saying that the 'God' mentioned 'in' the bible was responsible for all of 'this' is also pretty dumb.

[David88vert]

It'll be pretty retarded to say that everything happened by chance and that everything was created by nothing. I understand why people will argue this. It's dumb and just doesn't make sense. But saying that the 'God' mentioned 'in' the bible was responsible for all of 'this' is also pretty dumb.

On this, I understand your point completely. It is not necessarily the Christian God that created everything - if you are using scientific observation.
Any belief in a deity is just that - faith. And that is up to the individual.

[Maniacc]

Your example is that of a bacterium having a mutation, not the creation of a new species - they are still bacterium. There is a huge difference between the two. There are lots of mutations in this world, in fact, plenty of humans have them also. But that does not mean that you suddenly can go form homo sapiens to homo erectus. In fact, they can't even map all the genetic differences between the 2 species yet.

Show me a genetic change from one species to another. That is the core belief that one species can give birth to a new improved species. Show me one species that you can definitively show transformation through natural genetic mutation. Science has yet to find an observable link between 2 species as such. Currently, all "links" are not substantiated by genetics. They have yet to show that a naturally occuring genetic mutation improves a species, and can be passed on to future offspring, to the point of creating a new species.

There was something similar a while back...

http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html.../Feb04/r022004

Basically, they took e coli mutants that couldn't make the disulfide bonds needed to produce their flagella, dumped 'em in a petri dish for a game of Swim or Die. And sure enough, they managed to evolve flagella again, but this time with some other chemical instead of disulfides.

What I got from your post is that you're not going to be satisfied until you actually see an organism evolve into an even more complex organism. Or seeing a monkey walk up-right and show signs of intelligence. I mean dude, you know as well as I do that this requires time!

Just because we can't truly observe it doesn't mean it has mathematical errors. DNA similarities are there. What else do you have that can disprove evolution?