Piracy

[Paul]

this has been a problem for quite some time around africa and asian many ships are taking longer routes around to keep from being attacked; this in return cost consumers like us. my company does tons of import/export business and you have to factor in these type of things when you get into international business.

the problem is the international community hasn't taken a strong enough stance on this shit and has let it go on for too long. they should use those unmanned aircraft like reapers off the cost of of Africa to search and destroy vessels at the cost of the international community. this is just another scenario where world leaders turn a blind eye and wait for americans to step in and clean it up.

[BanginJimmy]

the problem is the international community hasn't taken a strong enough stance on this shit and has let it go on for too long. they should use those unmanned aircraft like reapers off the cost of of Africa to search and destroy vessels at the cost of the international community. this is just another scenario where world leaders turn a blind eye and wait for americans to step in and clean it up.

How mighty Republican of you. And I agree 100%.

[Paul]

How mighty Republican of you. And I agree 100%.

I have a seek & destroy attitude to threats towards American citizens... I think either we go 100% or none at all. Shit like this pisses me off b/c we are great at prancing around the issues if we aren't doing that we like to stick our nose where it doesn't belong.

[Frög]

ok the captain has now been saved by the navy, 3 pirated were shot and a fourth surrendered. and other pirated are outraged that we killed three of them though they wanted to kill an american citizen. this area of the world might get interesting. we have bigger boats than then too.

warships are heading that way and by now I would bet that those ships have some SEALS aboard.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/..._raised_stakes




AMERICA FUCK YEAH

Bring it:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_re_af/piracy

[BanginJimmy]

Those SEALS are some bad asses, but I wonder if SEALS were the Snipers or were they Marine Scout Snipers? I'm not even sure if SEALS have dedicated snipers.

[JITB]

The whole pirate thing isnt as simple as it may seem. From somalias point of view they are protecting their land. Companies have been stealing their resources for years and years without any agreement on profit or sharing anything. just taking and taking, and dumping wastes on their land, and waters. And nothing gets done.. so some of them decided to start doing this to keep the ships out of their waters, just to protect themselves. This was a real big issue back in 08..and i heard about it, but didnt pay any attention. but somehow this story came to light...lol i guess they were bored at CNN or something.

I dont say its right, but there is more to this story..it even goes deeper thru the puntland government, that gets a piece of the ransom. but there isnt a steady government in somalia..so you have private companies that just take advantage of this and do what they want over there, ruined their resources. It started as this, but it has grown to be outrageous..and there are so many pirates out their, and are said to be unstoppable. They have never been known to kill the captains either or the crew.. just want ransom and keep it moving. Thats why the companies have been paying them off.

[BanginJimmy]

The whole pirate thing isnt as simple as it may seem. From somalias point of view they are protecting their land. Companies have been stealing their resources for years and years without any agreement on profit or sharing anything. just taking and taking, and dumping wastes on their land, and waters. And nothing gets done.. so some of them decided to start doing this to keep the ships out of their waters, just to protect themselves. This was a real big issue back in 08..and i heard about it, but didnt pay any attention. but somehow this story came to light...lol i guess they were bored at CNN or something.

I dont say its right, but there is more to this story..it even goes deeper thru the puntland government, that gets a piece of the ransom. but there isnt a steady government in somalia..so you have private companies that just take advantage of this and do what they want over there, ruined their resources. It started as this, but it has grown to be outrageous..and there are so many pirates out their, and are said to be unstoppable. They have never been known to kill the captains either or the crew.. just want ransom and keep it moving. Thats why the companies have been paying them off.

Thats is all fine and good, but still doesnt mean shit to me. Maersk is now saying they are considering armed security on their boats in that region. I hope they go through with it and I hope more companies do the same. On top of that I hope that our govt forces the UN to take a very hard stance on this.

[Paul]

Thats is all fine and good, but still doesnt mean shit to me. Maersk is now saying they are considering armed security on their boats in that region. I hope they go through with it and I hope more companies do the same. On top of that I hope that our govt forces the UN to take a very hard stance on this.

couple of RPGs and put two privatized military guys on each vessel

[BanginJimmy]

couple of RPGs and put two privatized military guys on each vessel

That would work for me. Its not like its hard to get an RPG in Africa. Hell, maybe I will volunteer for a few months of the work. Figure that if Mearsk and a few other companies pool resources they could have continuous coverage on their ships for FAR less than they are paying to pirates. I was thinking a 5 man team on each ship and helicopter support to fly them between the ships as they pass through the most dangerous areas.

[leobond001]

Damn what ever happened to talking. i'm sure if the U.N. sat down and talked with the leaders of the pirate's something can get accomplished.

[Paul]

Damn what ever happened to talking. i'm sure if the U.N. sat down and talked with the leaders of the pirate's something can get accomplished.

talks take too long and are pointless - this is like talking to terrorist - it isn't like we are going to war w/ a country; act now and answer questions later

[Alan®]

And the objective is to preserve ALL life if possible.

And that's the problem. We execute criminals everyday in this country. Those guys are terrorists. Nothing more nothing less. And with that said we kill even more terrorists on a daily basis than we do criminals so who cares if they live.

[BanginJimmy]

Damn what ever happened to talking. i'm sure if the U.N. sat down and talked with the leaders of the pirate's something can get accomplished.

This has to be a joke. I bet you cant think of a single thing that the UN has accomplished in the last 10 years that the US did not make happen with use of its military. They havent even been able to figure out where their own meny went during oil for food.

[JITB]

Thats is all fine and good, but still doesnt mean shit to me. Maersk is now saying they are considering armed security on their boats in that region. I hope they go through with it and I hope more companies do the same. On top of that I hope that our govt forces the UN to take a very hard stance on this.

its not right.. but thats where it comes from.. So its not just as simple as lets go kill em all.. it wont happen. its not gonna happen. seals have been goin after them for years, since early 90's. Once this blows over it will back to usual over there. I mean if we had eastern cities coming to the gulf of mexico and mining our oil/draining out seas of sealife, without us taxing it would be a big problem.

its not just kill em all, and the problem will be solved. You stop the base of the conflict, and go from there. There is no way..i mean NO WAY, that this problem will be solved how its going about. promise!

Im not saying either side is right or wrong, but... to me the way its being handled now isnt gonna fix anything. This type of abuse to a coastal city would not be tolerated on any other place with any type of proper government in place.

[BanginJimmy]

Whose fault is it that they dont have a govt? Ours? Nothing is going to solve that problem short of complete extermination of those that are committing the crimes. That or making it un-profitable for them to risk it. Coddling them, and telling them its not their fault will only make the problem worse.

[.blank cd]

And that's the problem. We execute criminals everyday in this country. Those guys are terrorists. Nothing more nothing less. And with that said we kill even more terrorists on a daily basis than we do criminals so who cares if they live.

LOL. That's a totally different situation there. Criminals we execute here have already committed a capital offense, tried and convicted and sentanced. This is self defense, or defense of another in imminent danger. That's why 3 of them are dead. Same kinda thing that happens here when bad guys take hostages. That's why we have hostage negotiation teams. Only difference is that it wasn't on US soil. That's why we sent the military. And yes the seals have a dedicated sniper team too

[JITB]

Whose fault is it that they dont have a govt? Ours? Nothing is going to solve that problem short of complete extermination of those that are committing the crimes. That or making it un-profitable for them to risk it. Coddling them, and telling them its not their fault will only make the problem worse.

No fault, im not faulting anyone. exterminating all of them isnt even an option. ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! kill kill kill, isnt the solution to everything. It started as people playin robin hood protecting their own land. But it has blew up into a job in somalia. When you have people coming in and taking the only resource that yields any sort of income for the area, its gonna keep happening.

[BanginJimmy]

THE SHIPS THEY ARE ATTACKING ARENT TAKING ANYTHING FROM SOMOLIA THOUGH, THEY ARE SIMPLY TRANSITING THE GULF OF ADEN. THIS IS NOT A ROBIN HOOD SENERIO, THIS IS A CASE OF MERITIME CRIMINALS THAT FOUND A WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT. LAST YEAR ALONE MORE THAN 100M WAS PAID OUT TO THESE THUGS.

AS FAR AS THESE CRIMINALS GO, WHY ISNT KILL KILL KILL AN OPTION?

[JITB]

THE SHIPS THEY ARE ATTACKING ARENT TAKING ANYTHING FROM SOMOLIA THOUGH, THEY ARE SIMPLY TRANSITING THE GULF OF ADEN. THIS IS NOT A ROBIN HOOD SENERIO, THIS IS A CASE OF MERITIME CRIMINALS THAT FOUND A WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT. LAST YEAR ALONE MORE THAN 100M WAS PAID OUT TO THESE THUGS.

AS FAR AS THESE CRIMINALS GO, WHY ISNT KILL KILL KILL AN OPTION?

I SAID IT STARTED AS A ROBIN HOOD TYPE OF THING, BUT HAS GROWN TO THE WAY IT IS NOW. WITH JUST PIRATES ATTACKING EVERY SHIP THAT GOES BY THAT AREA ATLEAST IN A 400 MILE RADIUS.

THERE IS NO WAY, NO COUNTRY IS GONNA FUND THIS WHOLE MISSION TO KILL EVERY PIRATE IN THAT REGION TO STOP THIS. ITS JUST A BIG DEAL NOW. THEY DONT HIDE, THEY DONT HIDE IN CAVES WITH BOXCUTTERS AND VIDEO CAMERAS. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CAMPS AND ITS NO SECRET. SOMALIA IS RAN BY MILITIA GROUPS, AND THESE GROUPS SUPPORT THE PIRATES, AND THE PIRATES DO LIKEWISE. NOONE CARES ABOUT ANYTHING THAT GOES ON UNTIL THE MEDIA GETS A HOLD OF IT. WHOS GONNA FUND THIS MISSION TO KILL THE PIRATES.

[BanginJimmy]

I can tell you that Paul is right, the international community is just waiting for America to do it. When we do, we will probably be talked bad about by those same countries.

[JITB]

I can tell you that Paul is right, the international community is just waiting for America to do it. When we do, we will probably be talked bad about by those same countries.

True, but its just some things that america needs to stay out of. Fighting these militias, will open up a whole new can of worms.. so to me its just not worth it to go in like that gun v. gun in that region.. we got enough people to fight right now...or so they say.

[BanginJimmy]

True, but its just some things that america needs to stay out of. Fighting these militias, will open up a whole new can of worms.. so to me its just not worth it to go in like that gun v. gun in that region.. we got enough people to fight right now...or so they say.

So just act like it never happened and further empower them is your 'solution' to the problem?

[.blank cd]

So just act like it never happened and further empower them is your 'solution' to the problem?

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea. Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

[BanginJimmy]

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea.

This and Vietnam are in no way similar. These pirates represent a threat to Americans on the high seas. Vietnam was a case of stemming the expansion of communism.

Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

so your answer to my question would be yes.

[ahabion]

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea.

Vietnam was a good idea... it got my folks here to America and here I live... so yes Vietnam was good for me

Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

Hrm... well if you're ever endangered oversees, I guess best thing for you to do is just commit suicide because there is no hope for you. Afterall, we wouldn't want to waste military resources.

[preferredduck]

Whose fault is it that they dont have a govt? Ours? Nothing is going to solve that problem short of complete extermination of those that are committing the crimes. That or making it un-profitable for them to risk it. Coddling them, and telling them its not their fault will only make the problem worse.

they have no government correct, and at the airport they ask you what caliber gun you have with you. it's pretty much a lawless place. if people stole oil/land and polluted there than i see them getting pissed and i have seen some videos of hwat has been done to the resources over there and somebody made a quick easy buck. if they have resources they can be used to help the people but if i remember correct the money goes to a selct few locals and thats it. there is more to the root of this problem and there are many things that can be done to prevent it and some muscle may be included. BUT b/c this is an international problem i think all countries should use resources instead of the US going in alone to "save the day".

[JITB]

So just act like it never happened and further empower them is your 'solution' to the problem?

I DIDNT SAY THAT NEVER HAVE

I said, deal with the underlying problem thats causing all this. Which is the abuse of the land by western companies taking advantage of their resources. And not doing the correct thing, which is pay the toll, you want to use the resources use it pay..and dont destroy the area to where the locals cant even live there anymore. you deal with that, and it would make the whole situation alot easier. but like i said before it wont happen. Too much money involved The profit made off the resources of that coast is more than the amount lost from re-routing ships..

IT is a waste to fight in that region against the militants.. we have tried plenty times... its not the best and easiest thing.

[Paul]

True, but its just some things that america needs to stay out of. Fighting these militias, will open up a whole new can of worms.. so to me its just not worth it to go in like that gun v. gun in that region.. we got enough people to fight right now...or so they say.

What is going to happen if we fight back, really? These people are controlled by war lords of a 3rd world country. They deal in drugs, guns, slavery, sex, etc... these people are doing this b/c this is the only way to make money. You arm the ships and allow them to hire privatized military options. First few that are killed will start a backlash probably escalate the frequency of this but then Gov will step in and fuck Somalia's world up.

This isn't like we are messing w/ Iraq/Afghanistan.

Donald Trump was on morning news this morning and they asked him about this situation; i think he is a smart business man.... flat out he was like "you give the ships guns - multi million dollar vessels are being taken over pirates in small motorized boats. guns for guns!"

[Total_Blender]

The crewmen on these ships are not soldiers, and would have to be trained to defend their ships with weapons. Probably more trouble to the shipping companies than its worth.

I think they would probably be better served by a team that provided armed escort through the problem areas.

In Somalia your career options are pretty much

1.) corrupt gov't official
2.) warlord
3.) militia fighter
4.) pirate
5.) drug smuggler

Untill Somalia has any kind of structure other than anarchy, crime will be the only job that pays.

[JITB]

What is going to happen if we fight back, really? These people are controlled by war lords of a 3rd world country. They deal in drugs, guns, slavery, sex, etc... these people are doing this b/c this is the only way to make money. You arm the ships and allow them to hire privatized military options. First few that are killed will start a backlash probably escalate the frequency of this but then Gov will step in and fuck Somalia's world up.

This isn't like we are messing w/ Iraq/Afghanistan.

Donald Trump was on morning news this morning and they asked him about this situation; i think he is a smart business man.... flat out he was like "you give the ships guns - multi million dollar vessels are being taken over pirates in small motorized boats. guns for guns!"

Fighting back as in getting guards on the boats isnt fighting back.. its just defending. but all wont defend themselves. Like i said this is a problem for years now, and hasnt been solved with warfare in the past and i dont see it being solved this time either.

[BanginJimmy]

nukes would solve the problem. Its not like anyone would notice.


I like the idea I heard today. Put 20 or 30 ships in a line and convoy them through with a warship as a escort. 2 convoys a day going in each direction. The amount of time lost would be minimal compared to the threat.

[preferredduck]

nukes would solve the problem. Its not like anyone would notice.


I like the idea I heard today. Put 20 or 30 ships in a line and convoy them through with a warship as a escort. 2 convoys a day going in each direction. The amount of time lost would be minimal compared to the threat.

if somolia was nuked it might take a few hours off the trip if the land mass is gone!!!! the convoy is a good idea b/c a battleship could turn a speedboat to swiss cheese in seconds. even if they put like 3 armed personel on the ships i say one of them gets a rocket launcher and when the speedboat thinks this is going to be easy pickings blow them to hell. but don't warn them of this, after a few of their boats get blown up they will get the idea. france killed several pirates today so i have heard. now if the international navy ships can find the motherships they need to be sunk and turned into an artificail reef.

blender you are right that country is lawless and corrupt and a lot of businesses made a quick buck, ruined and polluted the land and jumped ship. as i said the whole world needs to help out not just the US.

[Paul]

You must have thought Vietnam was a good idea. Fighting these people would be a complete waste of military resources. Gotta pick your battles

This is why privatized military is in business.

[Total_Blender]

This is why privatized military is in business.

I'm amazed the shipping industry hasn't banded together and hired Blackwater (they have a new name now I forget what it is) to go after the pirates. Or at least contracted Blackwater to escort the ships.

[Paul]

I'm amazed the shipping industry hasn't banded together and hired Blackwater (they have a new name now I forget what it is) to go after the pirates. Or at least contracted Blackwater to escort the ships.

i think this will be a future option; i think there are regulations though currently having ships w/ arsenals in international ports/waters.

[BanginJimmy]

i think this will be a future option; i think there are regulations though currently having ships w/ arsenals in international ports/waters.

the law is VERY vague and changes from country to country, but in essence any fixed weapons could classify it as a warship.

As far as armed personnel on the ships, the law is also vague, but most ports will not allow armed men on a merchant ship.


Those 2 reasons are why the convoy idea would probably be the most beneficial to everyone. Get 12 or so countries to 'donate' a warship or 2 to the security of the convoys and have them a 1 month convoy duty.

[Total_Blender]

i think this will be a future option; i think there are regulations though currently having ships w/ arsenals in international ports/waters.

You are right about that. I was thinking they'd use unarmed ships and then have armed choppers that would use the ships as a base. I remember seeing some destroyers and cruisers that have helicopter platforms in Jane's Defense. Helicopters would be faster moving and better to patrol with than boats anyway, and it doesn't take a whole lot of firepower to destroy the fishing vessels or speedboats the pirates are using