My Turbo BMW at Road Atlanta....

[Elbow]

This is the black book of racing so I don't want to go follow you into your rabbit hole... I will clarified a couple of things b4 I leave this alone.

Not because you have tons of money, you can go in and buy a seat...
when those seats become available the teams already have a couple of millionaires in mind, and send out invitations for the "audition" or it's just word of mouth.
You have to be able to meet the race team minimum lap times.
You will never make money out of such a deal as buying a seat in a race team, sponsors income will go only to the team...

Also some times they don't sell the seat, they sell a spot..... In this case you have access to the facilities, fabricators, discounts from parts providers, access to all the development crew, BUT you have to pay out of pocket for your car on top of the buy in for your spot/seat.... So the good thing and bad thing about this is that you own your car, but most of the stuff in your car is proprietary to the Race Team......

So why do race team sell seats/spots????

All comes down to how fast you want to be, and how much money is at hand to get there; sometimes going from 1 to 2 cars in the same race brings 50% more income from the sponsors alone (double exposure, double the chances of podium), and the buy in money for said driver can go to development, it usually ends up there any ways, Why? because usually these pay drivers are a couple of seconds slower that your pro-driver, so you end up investing it into data acquisition system, 1 hire developer driver (to test and teach the pay driver) & 1 engineer (to make sense of all the data and make the car go fast).

In the last company I work for the CEO was a baja driver in his early years, and we had long chats about this subject..... He did his first season as a pay driver, but once he did the numbers he started his own team with his own truck and hire a co-pilot for his second season..... after everything was said and done at the end of the season he broke even, but at least had something to develop, something to show up for....

So Simmon I know a thing or 2 about Motorsports, My family had the Escuderia Torres before you and I were even born, and I've been around the sports here is the U.S.A..... So let's leave this at that, and stop trolling my thread and everyone's thread.

I'm not trolling your thread I'm correcting you. I've been racing since I was five and have been in the sport ever since. I've had my share of race invitations and have had great free opportunities as well (not races). To even get to the point where you will be paid, you WILL pay to race for someone. Unless you're one of a million kids like Lewis Hamilton or someone and have Mercedes behind you from the vagina you will pay to race as you move up, ask any professional driver.

You're mixing up flat out gentlemen drivers and drivers paying to move up. I guess everyone in the TDI Cup is a joke since they have to pay to race those cars. Teams don't get millionaires in mind to drive for them, they look for funded drivers with skill. I'm FAR from even being slightly wealthy or even really stable and I've had plenty of offers. So that comment goes out the window.

In these cases you CAN make money, if you bring along a driver sponsor the money goes to you, in turn you may spend it to the team but you can make money from it.

If you look at a series like Ferrari Challenge THEN you can put your mentality into play. Most are extremely wealthy older millionares with nothing better to do, teams pamper them and treat them like Schumacher in return for WELL over $50,000 a weekend.

If you look at ALMS, Grand Am, F3, etc. MANY of those drivers PAY to race there and still make money off of it. They bring a large sponsor, use that money to buy their seat, and don't really lose much out of their REAL pocket. You're really not seeing this at all. Do some research and find how many drivers are true paid drivers. Obviously big names are but many are not.

So no, I'm not trolling your thread like I said, I am correcting you because you really don't know much about how the sport works from what you just said. Not even many teams can afford to PAY drivers to race for them without factory support. This IS how racing works. You can't just say "it's funny he pays to race" that doesn't mean someone is a bad driver or lacks skill, that means he's your typical racing driver.

[RJ's325ITS]

I'm not trolling your thread I'm correcting you. I've been racing since I was five and have been in the sport ever since. I've had my share of race invitations and have had great free opportunities as well (not races).

Well, if it comes down to that I'm on top since I've raced before, some rally/go-kart/junior league..... yeah I moved to the U.S. and had to start from square one, with 100% more technology, and 100whp more that what I had have b4....

Point is that a PRO driver gets a royalty check, gets sponsor bonus checks, get's a team check. And that is it...

A paid driver gets invitations like you, and if you have money you will make out there, and maybe have 50% return on your overall investment.... Otherwise they end up like me paying to go fast plain and simple....

Bringing a sponsor into a team is not as easy as you think, and it depends on the contract you have......

I have more respect for developing driver at test drivers, the type of drivers that Colombia (my home) has produce throughout the years, drivers that get where they are base on skills, and signing the right contracts.

I Know a couple of drivers that had big sponsors and still didn't last long out there, either their team did not have enough money to develop the car and make it competitive, or just a bad team; these drivers end up loosing their sponsorship (yes the sponsor they brought in).......

I know one that even with all the sponsorship he is getting, he still has to work part-time when he can to pay his bills..... This sport is a meat market and in now days there are only 3 drivers out there:

1. The one w/money buying their seat
2. The one w/the skills financing everything on their own.
3. The Pro driver waiting to be discover (earning a living testing, developing and sorting race cars).

Back to my original post.... The funny thing here is that there is a bunch of "pro" pay drivers out there, and money puts you in the fast track....

[Elbow]

Well, if it comes down to that I'm on top since I've raced before, some rally/go-kart/junior league..... yeah I moved to the U.S. and had to start from square one, with 100% more technology, and 100whp more that what I had have b4....

Point is that a PRO driver gets a royalty check, gets sponsor bonus checks, get's a team check. And that is it...

A paid driver gets invitations like you, and if you have money you will make out there, and maybe have 50% return on your overall investment.... Otherwise they end up like me paying to go fast plain and simple....

Bringing a sponsor into a team is not as easy as you think, and it depends on the contract you have......

I have more respect for developing driver at test drivers, the type of drivers that Colombia (my home) has produce throughout the years, drivers that get where they are base on skills, and signing the right contracts.

I Know a couple of drivers that had big sponsors and still didn't last long out there, either their team did not have enough money to develop the car and make it competitive, or just a bad team; these drivers end up loosing their sponsorship (yes the sponsor they brought in).......

I know one that even with all the sponsorship he is getting, he still has to work part-time when he can to pay his bills..... This sport is a meat market and in now days there are only 3 drivers out there:

1. The one w/money buying their seat
2. The one w/the skills financing everything on their own.
3. The Pro driver waiting to be discover (earning a living testing, developing and sorting race cars).

Back to my original post.... The funny thing here is that there is a bunch of "pro" pay drivers out there, and money puts you in the fast track....

You're on top? I've raced as well. I meant the freebies weren't races but test days/track days. I started racing karts at around five, I've done enduros, shifters, etc. Even some oval. Both MatthewAPM and I also did the Red Bull F1 DS, that alone somehow got me great contacts. What do you mean you started from square one? What were you driving? Do you not have a driver resume?

I still don't get what you're getting at. Are you trying to say a driver who pays for rides will never be PAID to drive? If so that's simply moronic.

Bringing a sponsor to a team is very easy, I've paid to drive almost everything except cars I've owned. I've been VERY close to running some good stuff and it's usually sponsors who flake or lower their budget making it impossible.

The last driver you mention is a once in a lifetime opportunity almost NOBODY gets to have. You rarely go from karts into a free seat testing or not. Most test drivers have years of experience racing and even PAYING to race. Being discovered in motorsport is a dream many dream about but it's a retarded dream. To really be discovered you have to race, whether you're paying to race or running your own funded car. When most people say PAYING drivers their sponsor is paying, it's not hurting their pocket, when I ran karts I barely spent a dime, I used the money to rent a ride and that was that. The same thing can be said all the way down to track days.

Maybe you're looking to make money in racing? You know what they say about that...lol. However I've never considered making a dime or a profit, I'd race for free and work at McDonalds if it came to that.

Now like I said I really can't comprehend what you're saying. Are you saying I have no skill because I pay to rent rides? I've paid to rent track day cars before because it's easier that way. Paying to drive, race, whatever has NO indication on skill levels. Do you have ANY idea how hard it is especially in America to be given an opportunity to race for free? I can't even comprehend the thought of being PAID to do it.

The three type of drivers you are imagining are not exactly the truth. You have people who pay to race as a hobby, rent a car way too fast for them, and get offers from teams who solely run their business off of millionaires aka gentlemen drivers having fun. Results don't matter. Sponsors don't matter. It's all fun. You then have the paying to drive drivers who have talent and are moving up the ladder. These drivers show just as much talent as your "waiting to be discovered driver" but wait, that IS the driver you speak of. These "paying" drivers are waiting to move up the ladder and eventually maybe make a dime off of racing. However it's HIGHLY unlikely to ever be in that spot, even F1 drivers bring funding to a team.