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Thread: CALLOUT: DYNO CHALLENGE EVAN , MOSELY and KIZDAWAY

  1. #81
    Certified Gearhead chunky's Avatar
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    Let me start by saying the results were surprising, but in a good way.

    First off, the results:


    Evan's car made significantly more power than before, and the SSR header made a few HP more in the upper midrange than the Kiddracing header. The ECU is supposedly tuned for the SSR header, but I think both headers would have a smoother powerband with a better tune. I do not think that peak numbers would change significantly with a better tune.

    Here are the plots of the SSR with the exhaust on:


    The motor made similar power with the 3" exhaust on. However, the bumps in the torque just after the VTEC changeover are present in the plot. Those bumps were cited as an issue on the original test results, but they are still present here. They're related to the nature of the exhaust on Evan's car, not anything to do with how the car was run on the dyno.

    Here's a comparison of the SSR with exhaust vs. open header:


    You can see that with open header, the midrange is smoother, but there's not much change in top end power. This is typically the case with a k-series and a 3" exhaust. That the SSR was run with an exhaust and the kiddracing without an exhaust was cited as a problem with the original test. These results show that there isn't much difference between 3" exhaust and open header for peak power.


    Just to be complete, here are all the pulls made with the Kiddracing header.

    Also, engine tempreature was possibly listed as an issue on the last test. This test, within 3 pulls, the engine was warmed up. The engine had sat for more than an hour prior to making the first pull. By the end of the 2nd pull, it was fully warmed up. It made peak power on the 3rd pull without any special measures to warm up the motor. The runs on the dyno do a pretty good job of warming up the motor. By the 4th pull, power had started to drop, probably due to heat soak starting to take its toll.

    The final point I'd mention is that the tach on Evan's dash is way off. On the previous test, it was mentioned that the SSR wasn't revved out all the way. I can see why that would happen, I had the same problem initially, going off of the tach in the dash. Once I realized that the motor wasn't revving out, I used the tach on Evan's laptop. The day the 1st test was conducted, there was no laptop in use so it would have been hard to tell where to actually stop the pull going off of the tach in the dash.

    Last time the Kiddracing header won by a few HP. This time it lost by less than 1hp peak, and by a 2-3hp margin in places in the midrange. Why the results are so different from last time, I couldn't tell you. There are other variables involved, such as the throttle cable issue, but discussing them takes us too far into speculation. The bottom line is that this test wasn't conducted that much differently than the last. We just tried to account for certain variables that were questioned in relation to the last test. However, it appears that there was some other even bigger variable affecting both the SSR & Kiddracing header last time around. This time around both headers beat their previous numbers by a significant margin, and it had nothing to do with engine temp, whether or not an exhaust was bolted up, or how far the car was revved out.

    Anyhow, I'm glad this is all settled. I hope everyone understands that Mike didn't do anything on purpose to throw the results off. The test procedure last time around wasn't perfect, but the SSR wasn't going to beat the Kiddracing header on that particular day. I'm sure of that. There were enough pulls made on that day to justify that statement. The engine made its peak numbers by the 2nd or 3rd pull. Yesterday, there wasn't any way the Kiddracing was going to beat the SSR. It's a different day, the car has had some miles put on it since the last test, etc etc. I'll never be able to explain why things panned out the way they did last time, nor will I be able to explain why both headers made so much more power this time around. It just demonstrates that you just have to let the dyno do the talking. The dyno just reflects back to you what you strap down to it. Simple as that. There's no way to trick it into making torque bumps or reading more power. If it shows up on the plot, that's what the truth is for that particular day.

    It was a lot of fun, till next time!

  2. #82
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    Thanks chunky that's why I was very hands off yesterday I wanted you guys to do it and come to your own conclusions. I was very satisfied with the results, the methods used, and I will say that this test IMO was muc better than the first.

    I would like to thank mainstream for letting us stay late and dyno, and mosely matt Evan and Luis for showing up to participate.

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  3. #83
    vtec 05dc5s's Avatar
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    Great post Chunky! Ryan discovered last night that you can go to Tools>Environment Options>Advanced RPM filtering(check the box) and get the graphs to show the car revving all the way out. Its a new feature thats availible in the lastest WinPep software. It doesnt do much to affect Evans dyno(just 1hp on his best run) but for another certain car and for my car I was finally able to view my entire graph in rpm as opposed to having to view it in mph.

    The results were extremely suprising to me considering the HUGE power differences from then to now. This time everything was done to make sure all the controls were in place, the cars were warmed up, and that max power from each header was made. I really cant get over how it made so much more this time but its clear that on this test both headers were on par with eachother neither being significantly superior to the other.

    In the end both parties had several of the points being made to eachother that were proven in this test however I am certain that no one expected this particular outcome and thats the reason tests/dynos are done.

    All in all the suprising thing isnt that the SSR made 2hp more than the KRRH this time when the KRRH made 4hp more last time. Whats suprising is that there was more than a 12% power difference this time compared to last.
    Last edited by 05dc5s; 05-26-2010 at 11:47 AM.
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  4. #84
    vtec 05dc5s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vteckidd View Post
    Thanks chunky that's why I was very hands off yesterday I wanted you guys to do it and come to your own conclusions. I was very satisfied with the results, the methods used, and I will say that this test IMO was muc better than the first.

    I would like to thank mainstream for letting us stay late and dyno, and mosely matt Evan and Luis for showing up to participate.

    Pregnant hooters girls ftl
    Twisted Loop Racing

  5. #85
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05dc5s View Post
    I really appreciate you picking up the tab Mike that was hella cool of you.
    Business write off *coughcough*

    lol thanks for coming out we should all get together and hang out again that was fun
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  6. #86
    K series addict Moseley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05dc5s View Post
    I really appreciate you picking up the tab Mike that was hella cool of you.
    x2

    Thanks for putting this together mike. I was also shocked by the raw hp numbers that were made this time. I think it was a great comparison and shows that there's no reason these days to buy an off the shelf SSR or similar header if you can get the kiddracing for less than 1/2 the price. The only reason I'd see to pay 1000-1200 for a race header is if it is a custom unit.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moseley View Post
    x2

    Thanks for putting this together mike. I was also shocked by the raw hp numbers that were made this time. I think it was a great comparison and shows that there's no reason these days to buy an off the shelf SSR or similar header if you can get the kiddracing for less than 1/2 the price. The only reason I'd see to pay 1000-1200 for a race header is if it is a custom unit.
    BOOM HEADSHOT

  8. #88
    vtec 05dc5s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b@d @pple View Post
    BOOM HEADSHOT
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  9. #89
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    Glad everything is better now.

    New rule though, test cars have to be quiet from now on. That shit was loud.
    Main Stream Performance
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  10. #90
    Gods Chariot Vteckidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Main Stream View Post
    Glad everything is better now.

    New rule though, test cars have to be quiet from now on. That shit was loud.
    i called you at 9:52AM, i owe you some monies
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  11. #91
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    Yeah Open header runs were insane... my whole body was vibrating lol... But yeah thanks again to Mike and Chunky for putting in their time and effort to make this happen! It was an extremely fun time and I miss hanging out and doing what we do best, playing with our toys. It was great to see everyone, and I look forward to hanging out again soon! If anything we should make our own private club/meets hahaha!

    Thanks as well to Mainstream for allowing us to use their facilities and being cool as usual! Here's to everyone just having a good time again
    K-What?!?!

  12. #92
    K-BLAM! KIZDAWAY's Avatar
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    best experience with a great group last night. KRRH vs SSR turned out surprising. I wish the krrh was out when I put my car together.
    thanks mike for setting up the whole thing and much more.
    next is to do the same thing but at the track and see these things hook and book!

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by 05dc5s View Post
    rep header>all..lol

  14. #94
    Certified Gearhead chunky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Main Stream View Post
    Glad everything is better now.

    New rule though, test cars have to be quiet from now on. That shit was loud.
    LOL. how do you think I felt sitting inside the car? There was actually so much vibration from open header that the monitor for the dyno computer cut out once.

    Hopefully I'll be back up there before too long to tune my next build.

  15. #95
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    same.
    K-What?!?!

  16. #96
    under construction Da_unknown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejohnson88 View Post
    same.
    this was talking and meeting u yesteray.. guy in the brown
    GECKO SQUAD MEMBER
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    the saga continues....

  17. #97
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    oH UPS guy right? Yeah nice to meet you guys and put faces to names haha!
    K-What?!?!

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