2010 F1 "saved", Max to step down and original 2010 rulebook has been destroyed.

[EJ25RUN]

update on page #2





FOTA teams to launch breakaway series

By jonathan noble Thursday, June 18th 2009, 22:43 GMT

FOTA The Formula One Teams' Association announced on Thursday night that it is setting up a breakaway championship.

Following a four hour meeting at Renault's Enstone factory, the eight members of FOTA - Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW Sauber, Toyota, Brawn, Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso - said they had grown frustrated with the FIA's stance against the organisation, and had no option but to create a series of their own.

"The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship," said a statement issued by FOTA after the meeting.

"These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.

"The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series."

F1 teams were given until Friday evening to remove the conditions attached to the provisional entries they posted earlier this month, or risk being left off the grid in 2010.

FIA president Max Mosley wrote to the teams yesterday offering them some of the concessions that they wanted to see regarding governance of the sport, but made it clear that he was sticking to plans for the introduction of a budget cap.

In his letter, Mosley also urged the teams to sign up to the championship before sorting out the final version of the regulations and a redrafted Concorde Agreement.

In response to that letter, the teams met at Renault's Enstone headquarters on Thursday evening for lengthy talks, where they finally decided that there was no way a compromise deal could be reached with the FIA.

The teams expressed frustration that their efforts to try and improve F1 had been rebuffed by the governing body and the sport's commercial rights holder.

"Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport," said the statement.

"Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport.

"In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives. The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future.

"Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.

"The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA.

"The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise."

The announcement by FOTA looks certain to overshadow the British Grand Prix, which takes place at Silverstone for the final time this weekend and which Mosley is expected to attend tomorrow.

With FOTA's stance now seemingly leaving no room for a deal possible, its likely that more new teams will be added to the FIA's 2010 Formula 1 entry list.

The inclusion of Ferrari, Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso on that roster remains open to debate, however, with the FIA claiming that the teams committed themselves to F1 in a deal agreed several years ago.

[cjhutch]

This year has been extremely boring to me. They really have to find a way to pull the field together because it's basically the Brawn GP show this year. Most of the teams have already given up on racing for the championship and they are working on things for next year.

Have you heard anything else about the US F1 team?

[EJ25RUN]

This year has been extremely boring to me. They really have to find a way to pull the field together because it's basically the Brawn GP show this year. Most of the teams have already given up on racing for the championship and they are working on things for next year.

Have you heard anything else about the US F1 team?

USF1 is signed with Bernie and Max for next year but what's the point when all the names that matter are out.

Williams is a shadow of its former self and Force India is an also-ran. Then theres Campos, and some one else i already forgot about.

This is really F'd up. Its IRL/Cart but on the largest scale possible.

Hopefully FOTA really does listen to the fans and returns to proper circuits instead of selling out to a govt giving a check.

A world championship without the USA or Canada? WTF was Bernie thinking?

[NewGen33]

I can't believe this is happened. The one form of racing I thought could never go belly up is on its way. So Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW Sauber, Toyota, Brawn, Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso are all making their own series. What do you think will be the main difference between the two now and do you think to new series will last?

[Elbow]

I am quite speechless honestly and trying to even think of what I want to say here. Long reply in the morning, this is sad.

[blacknightteg]

wow. just wow. i wonder what is going to happen. thats crazy.

[DinanM3atl]

As said. I don't know what to say and don't know how it will turn out.

[1SICKLEX]

THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/8108488.stm

Here's the interesting part... it looks like they've already gotten all the sponsors to follow FOTA. But, they want to LOWER Ticket prices too!


"It has become clear, however, the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 world championship."

Fota added that its championship would put F1 fans first and boast the best drivers and sponsors.

"This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders," added the statement.

"The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series."


ALSO: The politicing must be fast and furious now with the other teams to get them to join one side or the other:

"The FIA had set a Friday deadline for five teams - Brawn, BMW-Sauber, McLaren, Renault and Toyota - to convert their provisional entries into unconditional ones or risk being excluded."

[DinanM3atl]

My real question is what of the 'new' entrants? What of Williams? What of other teams? We are going to have 2 series for 2010... one full of the 'big guys' and the other the 'little guys' and then maybe the little guys can jump to FOTA series?

Can't USf1, Campos and others say "fuck off" and go to FOTA? I know they signed an entry but what does an 'entry' mean?

[SampaGuy]

Ecclestone is surrounded by like 100 journalists right now at British GP practice and he is trying to get away LOL

[EJ25RUN]

there's talk on Ten-tenths of how there is still 15 hours left before the deadline, but, i feel this is past the point of bluffing or putting fear in Max.

Wiki just posted this....gives people an understanding of the establishment and who turned into who once they folded.

[SampaGuy]

I agree with 1sicklex, I think some good might come out of this! Nothing to be sad about. It will continue with or without the FIA. I guess we will find out tomorrow morning:

The FIA says it is “disappointed but not surprised” by FOTA’s decision to launch a breakaway championship, restating its belief that elements within the teams’ organisation were always intent on scuppering any negotiated solution.

The governing body added that it would not be extending this evening’s deadline for unconditional entries to be submitted and would announce the final 2010 entry list tomorrow morning.

“The FIA cannot permit a financial arms race in the championship nor can the FIA allow FOTA to dictate the rules of Formula 1,” it said.

“The deadline for unconditional entries to the 2010 FIA Formula World Championship will expire this evening.

“The 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship entry list will be announced tomorrow.”

[nsany(atl)]

If Indycar was smart they would speed up their new car to take advantage of this situation and a failing Nascab

[MongolPup]

What a mess.

[Jenson]

Already talking law suite:http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/sp...r-rival-series



This is IRL vs Cart all over again...what is it with open wheel series? FOTA should bail on F1 cars and all build P1 cars for ALMS\ELMS. That way they wouldnt get sued

[EJ25RUN]

Already talking law suite:http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/sp...r-rival-series



This is IRL vs Cart all over again...what is it with open wheel series? FOTA should bail on F1 cars and all build P1 cars for ALMS\ELMS. That way they wouldnt get sued

They'd still get sued. Especially Ferrari and Red Bull.

This made me laugh real hard when i was watching practice....

Bob Warsha
"So what about the deal with engines, will it be an all Cosworth grid?"

Ladies and Gents....F1 will now be called.....GP1.

Max and Bernie.

[Mike Lowrey]

I think this may be the only viable solution. Max and the current governace needs to end. Changing rules on a whim, charging rediculous ticket prices, charging large fees for tracks to hold events, no North American events. These things cannot continue. Max and Bernie are killing/Killed the sport.

The FIA has been bluffing the entire way. They were counting on the FOTA teams breaking apart. The FOTA is still strong and hold most of the cards. What does the FIA have? Some new no-name teams, and a few no-name drivers? w do they think they will survive like this? Where do they think the bulk of the fans are going to go? They will follow their favorite teams, who are in the FOTA.

The FOTA has all the big name teams, the big name drivers. Hell they have a complete grid already! The FIA still need to add 8 new teams just to fill their grid!

Whatever the series that the FOTA begin, I will be watching that one. Not the current F1 series.

The FIA are going to end up with a spec series with no driver and no-name teams. I have no interest in that.



After typing all the above, I do think there is a small chance that Max will see past his own stupidity on this. There seems to be a very small chance, though.

[EJ25RUN]

To add to your post, ^ the biggest single card presented thus far was from Prince Albert of Monaco.

We all know that Monaco is the most important F1 Grand Prix and that it is one of the three most important races in the world.

With that said, Prince Albert stated that Monaco goes where Ferrari goes.

I said this before this all began but it really is the honest case.

Ferrari is Formula 1 and without Ferrari, F1 will not survive.

Also, Dorna has been approached about running the breakaway series.

Dorna is the current rights holders to Motogp.

Can't USf1, Campos and others say "fuck off" and go to FOTA? I know they signed an entry but what does an 'entry' mean?

UPDATE ****

FOTA series could attract new teams

By Jonathan Noble Friday, June 19th 2009, 18:14 GMT

The breakaway championship being put together by the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) could be joined by even more teams, with both Campos Racing and Prodrive among outfits strongly linked with the new series.

While discussions about the rival category have focused on the eight current teams, sources suggest that a number of outfits have opened dialogue to find out more about the new championship.

McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh confirmed that FOTA was willing to accept more entrants to bolster its grid next year - as he was asked specifically about Lola and Prodrive.

"I think that certainly eight teams will be enough, but we would welcome any new teams or existing teams for that matter, and certainly there has been an expression of interest from some of the teams you mentioned," explained Whitmarsh.

"I think a lot of teams want to be racing against the Ferraris, against the Red Bulls, the Brawns and hopefully ourselves.

"Formula 1 has not done a good job in my view at developing a number of teams that compete, at developing a series that the fans want, and there is a lot opportunity to do a better job – to have some fresh energy.

"Whilst inevitably there is some sadness in a day like today, I think you have to be optimistic about the future. And sometimes out of these challengers are new eras and new opportunities, and we have to be positive.

"We've had already in the last few hours quite a lot of interest from some other teams that want to be part of the new series, and we are going to do everything we can to encourage them to be a part of it. Just as FOTA has already demonstrated its assistance to retaining teams and assisting the independent teams – that has to be part of the ethos of any organization."

The relevance of what the fans want was acknowledged by Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner, who apologised on behalf of the teams for the mess the sport found itself in.

"I only sympathize with the public, who must be as F1 fans confused and to a certain degree dismayed with what is currently going on. We have got a wonderful championship this year and Silverstone's last F1 grand prix and to have politics that quite simply are difficult for the general public to comprehend and understand.

"F1 should be about what happens on the track. It is taking up far too much of not only our time but other people's time."

[Mike Lowrey]

No Ferrari
No Monaco
No Siverstone
No US/Canada Gran Prix
No Drivers
No Manufactures
No Individuality (spec engines, etc)


What do the FIA hope to gain here? They are uttery stupid.

[DinanM3atl]

I still want to see USF1 and the other new teams though

I am torn.

[nreggie454]

I am really glad that FOTA didn't back down to Max and Bernie's restrictive demands. F1 was always supposed to be about the pinnacle of racing with the best technology and drivers, not just another spec series with more and more rules every year. I am excited about the new series and hope the best for it.

Granted, I did like the banishment of traction control, but the extra regulations are too much.

[BKgen®]

*sigh*

Are you happy now, Max? Fucking idiot.

[Elbow]

Well...hmm...

I don't know if the new series would be a bad thing if it goes how they say, but it's about history, I mean will it be called FORMULA ONE??

This is a huge mess with a moron that just can't admit defeat.

[DinanM3atl]

I am torn as well. I wanted to see all the new teams and packed grid with new teams and old teams.

Now it might not be the same

[dazn]

All I can say is to FIA, specially Max and Bernie.

Thankfully FOTA has held up so far, Max and Bernie have just gone insane. I hope their GP1 series dies in a slow, painful and humiliating way.

Its gonna be really tough for FOTA to start a new series though. One thing FIA has going for them is that they are already established. The people and resources are already there, not that the major F1 teams dont have their own resources, but its in a different venue. FOTA will have to work swiftly to get something going for next year. New Technical Regulations, Governing Bodies, designing, building and development of new cars and new teams; Finding tracks capable of supporting their races that are not bound to FIA; Marketing, logistics and it goes on and on and on. So much to do and so little time. The first year will probably be a complete mess. I wish them the best of luck because Im sick of max and bernie. Its great to see teams come together like this and stick to their guns(so far).

One good thing about all this is that if both series have a full grid, then its that many more racing jobs .

[2turbo4u]

I don't have much to say, because it already been said. FOTA for the win!

[EJ25RUN]

F1 Live

Rumours that plans for FOTA's breakaway championship are moving forwards abounded on Sunday.

In the paddock of the Silverstone circuit, even a possible name for the series emerged - 'New Formula' - as well as a potential 17-race 2010 calendar.

Former F1 venues including Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Jerez, Imola, Montreal, Indianapolis, Silverstone, Magny Cours and Adelaide were listed on the theoretical calendar, published by the German news agency SID.

Current tracks were also mentioned: Monaco, Silverstone, Monza, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and Suzuka, while potential new venues are Jerez, Portimao, the Lausitzring, Surfer's Paradise and even the Finnish capital Helsinki.

But while some suggest that F1 chief executive Bernie Ecclestone is moving towards the rebel team's plans, he told Britain's Daily Star newspaper on Sunday that he fears for the breakaway.

Despite earlier sympathising with the teams' dislike of the proposed budget cap, he now believes unfettered spending "could be the curse of our sport.”

"It could ruin it. It would be a disaster and they'd destroy the sport," he said.

"I would hate to see any kind of takeover happen because it would be badly managed.
They can't even run their own teams. They can't agree on anything. If the teams owned it they would destroy it," Ecclestone added.

He also scoffed at the leaked FOTA calendar, wondering how the body can compete with the structure operated by his businesses.

"We organise the venues which don't cost the teams a penny," said Ecclestone. "I reckon Ferrari and McLaren need us more than we need them.

"All they have to do is pitch up at a track with their sponsors' names all over their cars in exchange for millions of quid and race in front of a worldwide television audience - which I have set up and keep going.

"The bottom line is they can't afford to set up a rival championship," he added.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

It must be said that nothing is set in stone yet. F1 has not split just yet and there are many months for Max and Bernie to stop their sinking ship. If that happens, the championship the fans want, (the one proposed by FOTA) might not happen.

FOTA is gonna bring the fans (more fans than before) and go to places where F1 belongs. Not 5 seperate GPs in countries that have never had anything to do with motorsport.

[Elbow]

I must say if they go to those tracks I will be 100% supportive of this series.

[1SICKLEX]

I am so there at Indy if it happens!!!!

[Mike Lowrey]

+1,000,000 on the tracks!!!!!


Seems like all the things that are wrong in F1 today would be righted with where the FOTA are heading with this.

1. Teams have more say
2. More consistant rules
3. More tracks throughout the world. Not just a few countries.
4. Better ticket prices
5. North American tracks.


This is truely exciting for me. I would go to 1-2 races a year with the tracks they have listed.

I was lucky to go to Indy before it got tossed from the schedule. I had the time of my life. My wife and friend got pictures with Jenson Button (he was at the local CVS buying candy..lol). We ate dinner 10 feet from Scott Speed. It was a great trip. I hope to do more of these, without going halfway across the globe to do it.

[nreggie454]

LOL@ Bernie saying that FOTA is destroying the sport.

EDIT: WOW

Rumours indicate that a vote could be proposed to oust FIA President Max Mosley - or minimally reduce his power - thus potentially ending the standoff with the rebel teams.

[Elbow]

This political drama is about as good as the real government stuff!

[dazn]

i will support anything that doesnt have anything to do with bernie or max

[Elbow]

X2

[Mike Lowrey]

FIA vs. FOTA breakdown (IMHO)


I am really getting tired of this BS. Max needs to step down and the FIA need to seriously revamp the way they do things. This is how I see it.

1. Bernie is running around giving out contracts for F1 Gran Prix's to the highest bidder to make money for the CVC which is trying to recoup the tons of money it invested in the F1 rights. This is in turn, moving F1 to different track with no history, and no fan base. WTF was up with the turnout in Turkey?! That is an embarrasment. Because of the high fees the promoters must pay to get a race, the fans lose out with ultra high ticket prices.

2. Max is running around spouting cost cutting, but he is responsible for more spending due to last minute on-a-whim rule changes than could possibly be saved with the budget cap. The teams in turn must spend hundred's on millions of dollars to field a competetive car for the team and sponsers, which is wasted when the next line of stupid rules comes down.

3. The FOTA teams want more of the revenue pie, but the CVC refuses due to #1 above. The teams want to be more involved in the governece of the sport. After all, THEY are the ones spending all the money changing the cars, etc. Why should they not have some say in the rules?


We need the bullshit to stop. It very well may have gone too far to get everybody back around the table for talks. If the FOTA teams do create their new series, I hope that they do not end up like CART/Champ Car.


Quote from guardian.co.uk blog:

Mosley's attempt to drive down the costs of formula one by introducing a £40m budget cap can be linked to Ecclestone's need to maintain revenues on behalf of CVC Capital Partners, the private equity firm to which he and a consortium of banks sold formula one's commercial rights three years ago. Ecclestone, still chief executive of the company that now administers the sport's commercial rights on CVC's behalf, has consistently refused to grant the teams more than a 50% share of formula one's gross revenues, estimated at $1bn annually. An enforced slashing of budgets would undermine the teams' call for a bigger share of the pie.

If the budget cap is the ostensible sticking point, the underlying issue is the question of who governs formula one. Having seen off those who called for him to stand down last year following the News of the World's revelations of his sado-masochistic activities, Mosley has been indicating his intention to stand for re-election later this year. The threat of a breakaway is aimed partly at removing him and partly at securing a more equitable division of the spoils.

[thepolecat]

This is really going to hurt our F1 in Schools campaign.

I do like what FOTA is doing, but F1 is so classic- I want them to get back to the heritage of it.

It is so hard for any up and coming team to make it if all major player have unlimited resources and money.

I just love the engineering behind it all.

[cjhutch]

Here is the full proposed schedule with dates

The full FOTA 2010 schedule, as published in The Guardian, is as follows:

7 March Buenos Aires Argentina Last hosted F1 in 1998
21 March Mexico City Mexico Last hosted F1 in 1992
11 April Jerez Spain Last hosted F1 in 1997
25 April Portimao Portugal Never hosted F1
2 May Imola San Marino Last hosted F1 in 2006
23 May Monte Carlo Monaco Current F1 host
6 June Montreal Canada Last hosted F1 in 2008
13 June Indianapolis United States Last hosted F1 in 2007
11 July Silverstone United Kingdom Current F1 host
25 July Magny-Cours France Last hosted F1 in 2008
15 August Laustizring Germany Never hosted F1
29 August Helsinki Finland Never hosted F1
12 September Monza Italy Current F1 host
26 September Abu Dhabi United Arab Emirates Current F1 host
10 October Marina Bay Singapore Current F1 host
24 October Suzuka Japan Last hosted F1 in 2006
7 November Adelaide or Surfers' Paradise Australia Last hosted F1 in 1995/Never hosted F1

[blacknightteg]

i have had the privilege of attending the us gp the first year it came back to the states in 2000 and i will never forget that experience. it was the greatest. i had a BLAST

[Elbow]

Impressive schedule with some real tracks...we'll see what happens.

[EJ25RUN]

Impressive schedule with some real tracks...we'll see what happens.

Where's Spa? Spa matters.

7 March Buenos Aires Argentina Last hosted F1 in 1998 (One of the old GPs so good idea)
21 March Mexico City Mexico Last hosted F1 in 1992 (Not really a good track. Falling apart)
11 April Jerez Spain Last hosted F1 in 1997 (Catalunya is better)
25 April Portimao Portugal Never hosted F1 (Best new Circuit in the world)
2 May Imola San Marino Last hosted F1 in 2006 (Imola has been fixed finally so yay)
23 May Monte Carlo Monaco Current F1 host (Cant have the premier without Cote de Azur)
6 June Montreal Canada Last hosted F1 in 2008 (This is a must)
13 June Indianapolis United States Last hosted F1 in 2007 (Why not Miller Motorsport Park? I hate Indy)
11 July Silverstone United Kingdom Current F1 host (Im not opposed to Donington and this alternating)
25 July Magny-Cours France Last hosted F1 in 2008 (Magny Cours is the worst track on earth) Go back to Dijon or take Paul Ricard from Bernie
15 August Laustizring Germany Never hosted F1 (Rovals suck. Stick with Hockenheim)
29 August Helsinki Finland Never hosted F1 (Good idea to go to Finland)
12 September Monza Italy Current F1 host (Monza is a must)
26 September Abu Dhabi United Arab Emirates Current F1 host (Not a fan of these new cookie cutter tracks)
10 October Marina Bay Singapore Current F1 host (proved interesting last year)
24 October Suzuka Japan Last hosted F1 in 2006 (Suzuka is one of 5 best tracks in the world)
7 November Adelaide or Surfers' Paradise Australia Last hosted F1 in 1995/Never hosted F1 (Surfers is too slow for F1. I think Adelaide would have to be too sanitized for F1.