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Thread: 87-89-91

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    Default 87-89-91

    You pull up to the pump and usually have three choices: Regular, Mid-grade and Premium. Are these grades the equivalent of “good, better and best?” Have you ever been tempted to give your car a “treat” and upgrade? Do you really have to feed your high performance car that outrageously priced Premium grade?

    These questions are not “fuelish,” and the answers are based on something called the octane rating of gasoline. The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. This is meaningful when you recall how a four-stroke, gasoline-fueled engine works. One of the strokes is the compression stroke where the engine compresses a cylinder-full of air and gas into a much smaller volume before igniting it with a sparkplug. The amount of compression is called the compression ratio of the engine. A typical engine might have a compression ratio of 8-to-1. High performance engines generally have a higher compression ratio. Higher octane fuel can better tolerate the greater pressures in high compression engines.

    When gas ignites by compression rather than because of the spark from the sparkplug, it causes a condition known variously as knocking, pinging or pre-ignition. Knocking generally occurs when climbing steep grades, rapidlyaccelerating or driving at unusually high altitudes.

    Knocking can damage an engine, so it is not something you want to have happening. Lower-octane gas (like Regular-grade 87-octane gasoline) can handle the least amount of compression before igniting. So, the compression ratio of your engine determines the octane rating of the gas you must use in the car.

    The gasoline grades have corresponding octane ratings, typically 87 for Regular, 89 for Mid-grade and 91 for Premium with slight variations around the country. Most filling stations sell three grades, but some offer a few more choices between Regular and Premium. Even so, the typical gas station has just two underground storage tanks. Midgrade and other octane ratings are created by blending these two at the pump.

    The basic question we want to answer is, “Should you consider spending the extra money for Premium gas?” The answer is a qualified, “No.” The fact is, for most car and truck engines, Regular grade 87 is fine.

    That’s good news, but what if your owner’s manual recommends Premium grade fuel? The key word is ‘recommends,’ which really means it’s okay to use Regular under most driving conditions. Virtually every expert – even those from oil companies and auto manufacturers – say that using Regular will not harm engines, but you’ll probably not get the ‘advertised’ performance. In other words, you may add a second to the zero-to-60 mph time a reviewer said you should expect from your car. Again, using Regular gas will not damage the modern engines of most of today’s cars.

    Modern engines with advanced computerized engine management systems rapidly adjust their ignition timing at the first indication of knocking. For this reason, using Regular will not void your manufacturer’s warranty unless, in the rare case, your car’s owner’s manual states that Premium grade gasoline is REQUIRED. The owners of high performance engines that require the highest octane are well aware of this fact because high performance was an important factor in choosing their particular cars.

    However, if you own a “classic” car or a vehicle that is 10 years old or older and lacks such stuff as electronic fuel injection, computerized engine management and knock sensors and the owner’s manual specifies Premium grade fuel, DON’T USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN PREMIUM! If your vehicle has a supercharger and you drive aggressively, you might also want to use Premium. In this latter scenario, knock sensors cannot sense the condition fast enough because the supercharger boosts pressure too quickly. Of course, if your engine does experience knocking, no matter what vintage or sophistication, feed it the next higher grade of fuel or bring it in for a diagnosis and possibly a tune-up.
    Using Premium grade fuel in a vehicle designed to operate on Regular is a complete waste of money. It won’t add to performance since the engine is not designed to make use of the higher octane. Don’t believe that bunk about Premium gas doing a better job of keeping an engine clean. All grades of gasoline contain detergents and additives intended to promote clean combustion.

  2. #2
    chicken sangwich 15degvee's Avatar
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    cliffs mofo

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    rubbin' daily HeLLo iM iZzY's Avatar
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    Already knew this but still a good thing to read again.

    +reps.
    BUY MY HATCH <--click the link, cuz.

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    shakin it down Master Shake's Avatar
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    how about postin some info on how to get low-grade gas(87) to be more tolerant to compression like high-grade gas(91).
    dont' hold me to this, but i've "heard" a mothball or 2 per tank will raise the octane level.
    me personally, never tried it.
    anyone else knows info on it, throw it in.

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    Good Info!!

    +reps

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    Senior Member G.C's Avatar
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    If you have a high compression engine, why even risk your engine for few extra dollar at the pump?

    It's not like the difference is extreme. Its only few dollars difference. I would definitely not risk pumping something your owner's manual doesn't recommend just to save few extra dollar.
    :idb:

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    インテグラ K20Z1's Avatar
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    i always use premium...

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    EF Addict Bus Driver J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tran
    how about postin some info on how to get low-grade gas(87) to be more tolerant to compression like high-grade gas(91).
    dont' hold me to this, but i've "heard" a mothball or 2 per tank will raise the octane level.
    me personally, never tried it.
    anyone else knows info on it, throw it in.
    Meth....

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    IA's Blonde Guy Jecht's Avatar
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    The Jetta gets 87, and the Miata always gets whatever premium is (usually 91, but I'll take 93 when I can get it)

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    chicken sangwich 15degvee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.C
    If you have a high compression engine, why even risk your engine for few extra dollar at the pump?

    It's not like the difference is extreme. Its only few dollars difference. I would definitely not risk pumping something your owner's manual doesn't recommend just to save few extra dollar.
    this.

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    chicken sangwich 15degvee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht
    The Jetta gets 87, and the Miata always gets whatever premium is (usually 91, but I'll take 93 when I can get it)
    Hoping that jetta is a 2.0.

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    AmbitiousButRubbish EJ25RUN's Avatar
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    Leaded fuel!

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    good read. repz.
    btw i still will use midgrade lol.

    Save ur engines!
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    shakin it down Master Shake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.C
    If you have a high compression engine, why even risk your engine for few extra dollar at the pump?

    It's not like the difference is extreme. Its only few dollars difference. I would definitely not risk pumping something your owner's manual doesn't recommend just to save few extra dollar.
    i said i've heard, never knew if the shit worked or not. if it does, and shows no effect on the motor, then why not do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bus Driver J
    Meth....

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    resident honda hater redrumracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    Leaded fuel!
    lol people will look at you funny if you run out of gas at the airport and then go get some av gas for your car so you can get to the gas station.

    and i know this cause ive done this lol.

  16. #16
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    You can run 87 in any car almost these days. The ECU will retard the timing to account for the lower octane. So you lose a few hp, but it will not hurt your engine. I ran a lot of 87 when you couldn't find 93 octane anywhere last fall.

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    I have to run at least 91 in my tahoe cause its supercharged and i can feel a difference.. specially in the mpg

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    Im French! Frög's Avatar
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    It is a fact that nearly all automobiles sold in the US since the 1990's are able to smoothly run on regular-grade-87-octane gasoline.


    "cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen"

    That said, I still pump 93

  19. #19
    rolla rollin
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    very good thread! i only run premium in my car just for the fact its better! ill pay more for my car to last longer

  20. #20
    Im French! Frög's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-ROCK
    very good thread! i only run premium in my car just for the fact its better! ill pay more for my car to last longer
    Did you not read the THREAD?!?!?!


  21. #21

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    he's a honda owner frog. What can you expect?

  22. #22

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    I cant wait to get the genesis coupe. They actually tested how much net hp you gain if you use 87-91(93).

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    A.D.I.D.A.S. §treet_§peed's Avatar
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    i used premium in my civic and got around 45mpg. it payed off for my d-series.
    You know better; next time will be a ban.

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    www.jasontbarker.com speedminded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    Leaded fuel!
    I used to rock 100LL in my Z32 300zx. The smell was oh so sweet. :boobies:

    Ran it in my Daytona 955i and hauled it to the track once. First run that week was 0.6 seconds faster than the 10 runs the 2 weeks before. I was consistent within hundreths every time...unless i did something stupid like a 2nd gear wheelie down the 1,320!

    Where's TrueGiant at? lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by §treet_§peed
    i used premium in my civic and got around 45mpg. it payed off for my d-series.
    It's common to get worse gas mileage with premium in older cars...

  25. #25
    Zoom Zoom 87 Turbo II's Avatar
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    87 for me. Some Rx-7 owners even add additaves that lower octane. The Rotary burns fuel so quickly, it likes the lower octane so the gases will start expanding faster. IT runs WORSE on premium. Hwever too low is dangerous, and boosted /Rx-8 high compression applications should use premium. Random rotary octane fuel fact.

    Some N/A Rx-7 race cars use a fuel with an octane of about 80.

    ^^ Yeah, I drew a frame of a man running on each fan blade. That is him running at idle

  26. #26
    Lurks Mostly jacktheraper's Avatar
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    The lower grade fuel usually has a lower ignition temperature and is more combustable. If you are running forced induction of any type it can actually ignite the fuel just by pressure and heat before the engine wants it to. If thats the case, a higher grade fuel is needed. which in turn will be harder to ignite making things better.

    The weird thing is, with a high performance engine, sometimes, not ALL the time. Performance can actually be greater with a lower grade fuel seeing as how it is more combustable.

    If you run high grade gas in a cheap car made for the lowest grade gas, it can have very bad effects. Killing your catalytic converter because of the increase in un burned fuel making it's way in there. Among other things.

    Best to just stick to what your manufacturer says. Preignition will cause more damage to your engine than you could potentially save going with cheaper fuel.

    Don't know why I just spewed all of that info. Guess im bored.

    BTW. Anyone ever read "MAXIMUM BOOST" by Corky Bell?
    I lurk, therefore I am......

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    my store has 4 underground tanks.


    40,000 gallons FTMFW

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