For those that don't like God

[ahabion]

well in that case then i give u credit for owning up to the fact that u don't know and not throwing the usual lame excuses i've heard. +1

christianity is more than a religion for those who believe in it, its an ongoing relationship. Its completely faith based... its hard enough for folks to stay committed to that special person they see everyday but how bout saying committed to that which you dont see?

i had a classmate when i was in school a few yrs back ask me "why do you still believe in that stuff. Religion is only for those who need a reasoning after death. We're beyond that."

my answer to him was, 95% of the world believes that there is more to life than this here on earth, that there is something else beyond life. Even before the Europeans came to america, the natives believed in something... the tribes of africa and asia believe in something... how is it that almost an entire world, "civilized or uncivilized" believes in something, and still say that there is nothing beyond our human life?

[2.0civic]

but it IS a point though.

1) they don't have to disprove anything, nonbelievers aren't the ones with a story about something/someone almighty that is responsible for everything that happens around us.

2) think of it this way, say i believe in the pink purple invisible dragon that baby j mentioned. would nonbelievers REALLY have to disprove that? i mean seriously think about that.

lol, exactly. sorry i didnt see thistil after i posted my last post. Good wording

[ahabion]

you are trying to prove something exists. If there is no FACTUAL evidence of it, then it clearly doesnt exist. as far as christianity goes, it has another major flaw. You can live your life doing shitty deeds but as long as you are "saved" before you die, and "repent" your sins, you get into heaven.

then you're not technically saved then are you? christianity is a lifestyle and longlasting relationship... those who truly believe in christianity live it.

[ahabion]

but it IS a point though.

1) they don't have to disprove anything, nonbelievers aren't the ones with a story about something/someone almighty that is responsible for everything that happens around us.

2) think of it this way, say i believe in the pink purple invisible dragon that baby j mentioned. would nonbelievers REALLY have to disprove that? i mean seriously think about that.

i guess we'll go in a loophole the same way that you cant prove or dissapprove it, wher eyou can say, can you prove that it does exist?

[BABY J]

my point is u can't tell me prayers aren't answered...

and u can't take the bible so literally.. Jesus spoke in parables all the time.. So why wouldn't God? I mean think about it... If God Literally Answered EVERY single prayer... the world would not be in existance. And i don't know the verse so i'm sorry for not quoting actual scripture but it also says in the bible that God has a deaf ear to non believers. until they believe and ask for repentence.

What happened to free will? This is SOO not free will. This is coersion. SO God wants to coerce us into following him... I see. God is on a MAJOR ego trip then huh? "Hey guys, look at me! I'm God... if you say my name I will give you cookies!"

If God wants some1 to blindly FOLLOW him w/out proof of who He is, then what makes him any different than David Koresh??

[ShooterMcGavin]

my answer to him was, 95% of the world believes that there is more to life than this here on earth, that there is something else beyond life.

guess i'm part of that 5% then...

[2.0civic]

then you're not technically saved then are you? christianity is a lifestyle and longlasting relationship... those who truly believe in christianity live it.

thats my point. i used to go to church til i figured out that it was a gathering of fucking hypocrites. not going to say where but i as at a party one night, and saw my old preachers son do a line of coke and the next day, be teaching little kids right and wrong....although thats probably the worst situation ive seen, i see it on a daily basis. Hell, there was a camp thing at the gwinnett civic center last week.....i work at bass pro and we have to get parents to sign a waiver to let you climb the wall.....i caught over 40 people LYING saying they were the kids parents and when i checked id's, most of them didnt share last names or were in different states. WTF happened to thou shall not lie? then they lie over petty shit like that

[ShooterMcGavin]

What happened to free will? This is SOO not free will. This is coersion. SO God wants to coerce us into following him... I see. God is on a MAJOR ego trip then huh? "Hey guys, look at me! I'm God... if you say my name I will give you cookies!"

funny that u said that, ever seen devil's advocate? that just reminded me of pacino's rant at the end about how god is a tease...

[2.0civic]

funny that u said that, ever seen devil's advocate? that just reminded me of pacino's rant at the end about how god is a tease...

i ad to watch that movie about 3 times to finally get it...granted i was in like 5th grade or something then

[2.0civic]

started dying off a bit

[BABY J]

As posted from ME in another thread... then I am done w/ this:

Hmmm... in my mind --> anyone with a love for truth outside of himself/herself has to start with NO belief in God, and THEN look for evidence of such a God. That person needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural/spiritual power. All the people I write e-mails to or talk to about their faith are still often are still stuck at this "searching" stage. Me NOT believing in it puts me at a point where I HAVE ARRIVED, while they are still searching. Hmmm. The belief in a higher power, but NOT in "God" (as we know it) is easy for me.



The "I BELIEVE IN GOD" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "I believe there is no God... at least as we know it. I think we ALL as a people have missed the BIG picture.



Having taken that step in the belief of NOTHING, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love... I love blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards --> and that has to be enough for me. Everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more... some HEAVEN when there can be heaven here on Earth at times. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't "need" heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy, and I get to ENjoy it every day.



Believing there's no God (as it is taught) means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness of other people that I can talk to and look at and touch. That's good; b/c it makes me want to be more thoughtful --> I have to try to treat people right the first time around instead of repinting to "God" later on. Why should GOD 4give me for offendign BOB? Shouldn't BOB forgive me himself?



Believing there's no God stops me from being narrow-minded. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we as people can agree on reality, and I can use this reality to keep learning where we are wrong and could all improve. We can all keep adjusting, so we can REALLY learn to communicate no matter where we are from and what we believe in w/ "God" outta the picture. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less (FUCK YOU). But all obscenity in the world is less insulting than, "It's how I was brought up" and "my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.



Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, my life, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just "testing us"... that suffering is something we all may be able to help others with in the future. I have seen people cry helplessly in the middle of the street for invisible help from God that never arrives. Some God. But if I believe in US, then WE should come to the rescue of that person in the street. CAUSE GOD IS NOT GOING TO!!! A God, if there was one, would want US to help that man... GET A CLUE!!! No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future... but only if WE as PEOPLE, and I mean ALL FUCKING PEOPLE help EACH OTHER!!!



Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and touch/taste that make this life the best life I will ever have... how can "heaven" compare if all of my friends and family will not be there? THIS is likely the best life I will ever have. I SERISOULY doubt the angels can work it like my girl Michelle... LOL.



K, seriously again. If there is a God, I imagine he is laughing at the people who are asking for MORE (heaven, prayers, streets of gold, angels), when he has provided everything that we will ever need RIGHT HERE... each other.

[ahabion]

thats my point. i used to go to church til i figured out that it was a gathering of fucking hypocrites. not going to say where but i as at a party one night, and saw my old preachers son do a line of coke and the next day, be teaching little kids right and wrong....although thats probably the worst situation ive seen, i see it on a daily basis. Hell, there was a camp thing at the gwinnett civic center last week.....i work at bass pro and we have to get parents to sign a waiver to let you climb the wall.....i caught over 40 people LYING saying they were the kids parents and when i checked id's, most of them didnt share last names or were in different states. WTF happened to thou shall not lie? then they lie over petty shit like that

i dont doubt that for a second... in fact, i am a preachers kid LoL... but those are the bad apples like in any community that make christianity like that "oh god, here comes one of them... lets avoid them before they start preaching to us" type of stereotype. Dont look at others to be examples in a Christain lifestyle... look to the bible for that. God knows that my church is full of hypocrites and folks wanting "power" or positions of influence within the church... but you live your life the way that you want, not by them.

[2.0civic]

i dont doubt that for a second... in fact, i am a preachers kid LoL... but those are the bad apples like in any community that make christianity like that "oh god, here comes one of them... lets avoid them before they start preaching to us" type of stereotype. Dont look at others to be examples in a Christain lifestyle... look to the bible for that. God knows that my church is full of hypocrites and folks wanting "power" or positions of influence within the church... but you live your life the way that you want, not by them.

thats one of many reasons i dislike christianity. that would be kinda like me working at kroger, telling you i love my job, and buying publix stock (nonetrily wise, it makes sense to suit YOU but as far as religion aka job in this example, not the better good of the company) i know that was a shitty example of the hypocracy but thats basically all i see

[ahabion]

Nice write up babyj, very well done. What gets me about other religions and christianity inluded, is when they are trying to force feed you their religion. I myself as a christian, really dont like that at all... can you really force feed someone your beliefs and ideals??? like the jehova's witnesses that come knocking at your door... the biblical readers ont he street yelling at how damned you are if you continue in your unholy path... i think thats also what turns others folks off.

[2.0civic]

Nice write up babyj,....the biblical readers ont he street yelling at how damned you are if you continue in your unholy path... i think thats also what turns others folks off.

yup. but im only qouting a small portion cause at a falcons game one time, this guy was telling us that we were all going to hell for not being in church on sunday.....do i need to point out why this was ironically funny

[Jaimecbr900]

Why do these discussions always come full circle back to "show me proof or I don't believe"?????

Why is it that you guys can't do something as simple as look up the DEFINITION of "faith"? No where in the definition of faith does it describe it having "proof". Why is that? Because "proof", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

What is proof to me may not be proof to Baby J. What is proof to Baby J may not be proof to me. Does that CHANGE the fact that I feel something? It shouldn't, and it doesn't.

Blind faith is one thing, and common sense is another (although everyone's common sense threshold is different too).

My point is simple: It is an impossible puzzle to decipher because some people REQUIRE to be struck by a lightning bolt before they believe AND the believers do a very weak attempt in being a lightning rod.

Some people believe, some people don't. It's really that simple. No need to find 5 tails on the cat or reinvent the wheel. There are some people that are NEVER gonna get it.

Ironically enough if there really is no God, what does an Atheist have to loose by worshiping God? Sounds to me like it'd be the surest bet ever in the Universe. If there is no God, no harm done because there is no consequence. If there is, then he/she would of made the right decision.

The real bottom line is that each and everyone of us WILL have to deal with the consequences of our decisions to believe or not believe. Noone can make that decision for you, try as they might. So for ME, I'm placing my faith on something that makes far more sense to ME than we merely appeared after a "bang".

One thing some of you guys are right about is that my decision certainly let's ME sleep better at night. And when it's all said and done, that's really the only one I can ever control......me.

[Jaimecbr900]

yup. but im only qouting a small portion cause at a falcons game one time, this guy was telling us that we were all going to hell for not being in church on sunday.....do i need to point out why this was ironically funny

Because HE wasn't at church either?????

That is funny.

[Jaimecbr900]

BTW, I'm not bashing anyone nor am I trying to convert anyone.

If you ask many people a question, you very well may get very different answers.

Many of you are clearly very intelligent people. It is obvious by the way some of you post. It is actually very nice to see intelligent people that can carry on a debate w/o resorting to unnecessary low blows.

[4dmin]

There isn't anything to like/dislike... i dont' believe in your GOD.

[ISAtlanta300]

thats one of many reasons i dislike christianity. that would be kinda like me working at kroger, telling you i love my job, and buying publix stock (nonetrily wise, it makes sense to suit YOU but as far as religion aka job in this example, not the better good of the company) i know that was a shitty example of the hypocracy but thats basically all i see

Yeah but does that mean then that Kroger itself would be a bad company in your example?

Just like in your example above.. just because the preacher or kid does lines of coke does that make the RELIGION itself bad? Just don't go saying all christians are bad just because of what you observe some do.

[ISAtlanta300]

There isn't anything to like/dislike... i dont' believe in your GOD.

That's ok, He does not believe in you either....

[ahabion]

Yeah but does that mean then that Kroger itself would be a bad company in your example?

Just like in your example above.. just because the preacher or kid does lines of coke does that make the RELIGION itself bad? Just don't go saying all christians are bad just because of what you observe some do.

the thing that really gets him, i'm sure is that there are so many people that would define themselves as Christians. The sad truth to that, is that the bad things we do and say obviously reflect not only us but of what we believe in. So the general public will simply turn themselves off of what we are trying to preach... but whats really sad, is when we dont practice what we preach. and so thats a double neg on us.

Kinda like the Catholics are full of pervert Rabi's and Islamics are full of suicide bombers fighting a Holy War against the Western evil

I personally dont like religion itself either,i think religion is very bad. Its what starts wars and even now, wars are still being fought over religion. Middle East, Vietnam (a religious polical spread of communism vs democracy), WWI and II, the Crusades... on and on... religion is very bad.

[Jaimecbr900]

^^^^Very good post.

[Hulud]

first off, if u think this world today is in "order" then either ur definition of order is a very loose one or maybe u and i aren't living in the same world. if u don't get what i mean, open up cnn.com and just look over the top news stories.

secondly, why can u not see how ppl deny that there's something greater out there? i can easily deny of the existence of something greater, just because we as humans might not be able to COMPREHEND the intricacies of this world, nature and all the living things around us and how we came to be about, does not in any way shape or form give REASON OR PROOF that something "greater" exists.

preach it LOL

[quickdodge®]

ever heard of sarcasm

Wondered if it was. Apologies on my part if that is the case. I don't know you, so I took it the wrong way. Later, QD.

[Hulud]

That's ok, He does not believe in you either....

you are dumb

cause according to your faith, he does

[Crazy Asian]

Wow... Just IMO I like to think your past has your story. The way you were raised up in values or the way you lived. There's goto be a story behind your life that makes you dont believe or believe in God.

[Hulud]

Wow... Just IMO I like to think your past has your story. The way you were raised up in values or the way you lived. There's goto be a story behind your life that makes you dont believe or believe in God.

onpe, i was brought up believing and goin to church every week

i just chose to think for myself

[Crazy Asian]

Ok.

[b@d @pple]

I'm sure they are basing it on the Christianity... they probably hate Him because they were never shown a genuine Fatherly love from their real father and so relate that to their Heavenly Father and deny Him or they want to look cool with their "I hate God, GO DARWIN" bandwagon friends or they are devil worshippers and are the sworn enemy of God... sad to say that they've already lost... a few millenia ago.

you are a fuckin moron.."the darwin bandwagon"..what the fuck are you talking about..all darwin offered was a different possibility of existance..atleast there was some scientific background behind his reasoning..christianity is based on something that you cannot prove..which makes more since

[ISAtlanta300]

you are dumb

cause according to your faith, he does

Sarcasm.... it's not just for dictionaries anymore.....

[Hulud]

Sarcasm.... it's not just for dictionaries anymore.....

sarcasm..... should come with disclaimers

[2.0civic]

Yeah but does that mean then that Kroger itself would be a bad company in your example?

Just like in your example above.. just because the preacher or kid does lines of coke does that make the RELIGION itself bad? Just don't go saying all christians are bad just because of what you observe some do.

just came back to check on this...


but yes, if the job(religion or whatever else you want to apply my example to) is full of lying ass hypocritical people, that is all I personally need to see to steer my ass away. My general point in that was to say basically that if you love christianity and your "god" so much, you wouldnt falter from him and go somewhere else to better yourself. you would stick it out with what you feel is right instead of going for the immediate gratification

the thing that really gets him, i'm sure is that there are so many people that would define themselves as Christians. The sad truth to that, is that the bad things we do and say obviously reflect not only us but of what we believe in. So the general public will simply turn themselves off of what we are trying to preach... but whats really sad, is when we dont practice what we preach. and so thats a double neg on us.

EXACTLY

Its not like it just one or two people out of the how many ever christians there are but its like damn near everyday!! VERY RARELY do i see a christian that will stand by their values and their commandments. The fact that someone can walk by the bible and preach to you bout your wrongdoings but all the while they make mistakes too.

As was said before, it is rather funny how most of these threads always in in "prove this" or "prove that"


One thing that i would like someone who is religious to answer in this thread is how come in the different religions that circle themselves around the christian god, why is the bible taken so many different ways throughout these religions? Like catholics have one set of believes and baptist have a complete other.

[2.0civic]

Sarcasm.... it's not just for dictionaries anymore.....

see, this is the type of shit im talking about...joking or not, instead of saying shit to the effect of god doesnt know you, a christian should help point someone to the "light" instead of being a smartass about the situation

[ahabion]

you are a fuckin moron.."the darwin bandwagon"..what the fuck are you talking about..all darwin offered was a different possibility of existance..atleast there was some scientific background behind his reasoning..christianity is based on something that you cannot prove..which makes more since

agreed that darwin did offer another possibility into how things were to be and there is some scientific background to back up his reasoning... like the iguanas on the galopagos islands and some species of birds, hence came the theory of evolution.

But evolution itself is still a theory, not a fact. True that the iguanas on the the islands lived because those that knew how to swim and those with longer claws survived to breed... those that didnt, of course died (natural selection) But it still doesnt go to show how we came from a gelatinous compound into human beings. Or how dinasaurs became birds or how a cow became a whale and/or vice versa. Bones are being excavated of so called "eve" skeletal structures that suggest that we may have had a "monkey" like evolutionary process, but again, those bones that they are finding are scattered which suggest they could have been deformaties and outcast from their tribes. Drawing the same parallel, with dinasaurs and birds... yes dinasaurs are maybe more closely related to birds, but where is the evolutionary process which suggest that... meaning if we are finding bones of the human evolutionary process, which of course takes millions of years, why are we not finding the other (dinosaurs, cows, whales, etc.) evolutionary processes as well? Its all still theorized and is still open, which the same can be said about a Religious belief in an omnicient being. So i'm not banging on evolutionist/scientologist, just answering the the thread "For those that don't like God..." and the why part of it.

[b@d @pple]

agreed that darwin did offer another possibility into how things were to be and there is some scientific background to back up his reasoning... like the iguanas on the galopagos islands and some species of birds, hence came the theory of evolution.

But evolution itself is still a theory, not a fact. True that the iguanas on the the islands lived because those that knew how to swim and those with longer claws survived to breed... those that didnt, of course died (natural selection) But it still doesnt go to show how we came from a gelatinous compound into human beings. Or how dinasaurs became birds or how a cow became a whale and/or vice versa. Bones are being excavated of so called "eve" skeletal structures that suggest that we may have had a "monkey" like evolutionary process, but again, those bones that they are finding are scattered which suggest they could have been deformaties and outcast from their tribes. Drawing the same parallel, with dinasaurs and birds... yes dinasaurs are maybe more closely related to birds, but where is the evolutionary process which suggest that... meaning if we are finding bones of the human evolutionary process, which of course takes millions of years, why are we not finding the other (dinosaurs, cows, whales, etc.) evolutionary processes as well? Its all still theorized and is still open, which the same can be said about a Religious belief in an omnicient being. So i'm not banging on evolutionist/scientologist, just answering the the thread "For those that don't like God..." and the why part of it.

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."
Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

[ahabion]

Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

That (evolution) is still a hypothesis and conjectures, it has yet to be confirmed. We're 1 or 2 chromosomes closer to frogs than we are to apes. Humans evolving from ape-like ancestors have yet to be proven factual. The same goes for dinosaurs and birds or reptiles for that matter.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Truth is relevant. If you were to draw a line between evolutionists and creationists, and you were that line.. you can argueably say that neither side has any hard evidence to show for it at the beginning of time. Since that time, we've dug out bones of what appears to be an ape-like ancestor from millions of years ago but can we really say from that bit of evidence that we evolved from that? or maybe the apes today evolved from that?

[Hulud]

That (evolution) is still a hypothesis and conjectures, it has yet to be confirmed. We're 1 or 2 chromosomes closer to frogs than we are to apes. Humans evolving from ape-like ancestors have yet to be proven factual. The same goes for dinosaurs and birds or reptiles for that matter

i have a question for you....

so your saying that evolution is wrong because its a theory?

what about god? he cant be proven...

[ahabion]

i have a question for you....

so your saying that evolution is wrong because its a theory?

what about god? he cant be proven...

I never said that evolution was wrong because it is a theory, but it doesnt mean that its right or fact or has been proven.

God in scientific terms is also a theory or hypothesis the same as evolution but it also doesnt mean that its right or factual.

For both, you have historical data (bone carbon records, dna, instant rock, etc and of course the oldest record of history being the Bible itself.) all of which has its probability of flaws and gaps, but its all in what you put your money in or what you want to believe in, find out which way the evidence points to the most for YOU, whether it be evolution or creation.

[4dmin]

That's ok, He does not believe in you either....

h8ter