Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see"
V.3
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."
Faith
Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see"
V.3
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."
I have a feeling this will turn into an evolution vs. creation thread
^^ thinking the same
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
Prolly
Faith = wack. So is "religion" (please know the diff between religion and spirituality). It all keys in on the power of the human mind. You can psyche yourself up to belive anything. It's designed to keep MOST of the people happy MOST of the time. Too many unconsistencies.
**waits for the shitstorm, which will bring LIFE to this dead thread**
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
For the "godless" faith keys on the human mind...and is "wack". The godless have only their own weak mind/power to rely on, hense their inconsistent perceptions.
For those that know God faith keys on His mind, power & word as seen in ones life and is quite real.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Those without a spiritual mind cannot concieve faith nor do they understand it....even though they have a faith in their own flawed wisdom.
That's completely untrue. Just because a person does not believe in God or what you believe, that doesn't make them "weak"-minded. But, with your typical Christian and their "power" to be right all the time, that is yet another pre-judgemne they make. Later, QD.Originally Posted by metalman
FOR MORE INFO, CLICK THE PIC!!!
To think that I'm right about what I believe doesn't mean you are being judged. People are so quick to throw out "don't judge me you Christian, you're not supposed to do that" when really you're just judging yourself against us. Not once have I seen anyone here point fingers at anyone, just enlighten you on what we believe.
True true. I am not here to judge you.
That isnt at all what I said, you have misunderstood, or I didnt make it clear.
ALL humans are "weak" minded...period....in comparison to God.
Those who truly know God realize this...those who don't know God often or usually dont, and will rely on their own wisdom instead of a greater wisdom.
Last edited by metalman; 06-02-2006 at 10:19 AM.
don't you have to have FAITH to begin with in order to believe in god or a god?
Almost none. Only a grain of mustard seed....if that much.
Faith is a gift.
haha, that's where we differ in opinion, greatly.
Well opinions aside, thats what Jesus said...and if one were to "challenge" Him on that by testing that...they will find out for sure. Some of us have.
This question is sort of like saying 'how much money do I need to invest'
The answer depends on how much return you want. It only takes a penny.
And like investing, when one recieves that return he will only wish to invest more. Why? Because in THIS system unlike money markets, you never lose.
Another key difference in investing faith as opposed to money is the rate of return.
But those who never invest will never know.
precisely then, you just agreed with what i asked (somewhat rhetorically) earlier, you have to invest FAITH in order to "get some back" and come to believe completely in god.
I have seen people die in the streets while begging and pleading for invisible help from God that never arrives. I think RELIGION is the worst thing to happen to spirituality. God (if there is one) would be too big to fit inside of 1 religion... yet Christianity is one of the most arrogant of all the religions. Honestly I grew up in church and accepted him as Lord and Savior as kid... after spending 8 years in the military and seeing things that most will NEVER believe could happen is when I had doubts, and have had doubts every since. Am I SPIRITUAL? Yes. I think that most things have a good spirit or a bad spirit. But am I religious? No. Why do you speak English? Most likely b/c your parents did --> you are a product of your environment. Look on your kitchen counter and chances are you use the same dish detergent that your mom did. So here's the skinny... you are born in China (by NO fault of your own, and you are a Buddhist). You die and go to hell b/c of that? I am NOT buying the RELIGIOUS separation that exists... if God said "come as you are" then why are Christians trying to "convert" others to Christianity? And even Christians have MANY seprations in their own religion. Ask a Presbyterian why they are Presbyterian and they will most likely not be able to answer. In fact, ask them why they are Presbyterian vs Methodist and chances are they will not even be able to tell you what the difference is. Fickle crowd, and as humans we always will be. There is not a preacher on Earth that has told me anything more than what a good mom and dad can tell me. Don't steal? No shit! I do not need a preacher to tell me good common sense about treating others right. I could go on...
Bottom line, if you were adopted at birth by a Japanese family, chances are greater than not that you'd 1) speak Japanese and 2) be a Buddhist and SWEAR by Buddhism as much as you swear by Christianity today.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Except for one thing...it takes virtually no faith to start with. Only the grain of mustard seed. Ever seen one? You need a strong magnifying glass.
That miniscule amount of faith, demonstrated by ones actions, can bring more then enough "return" to convince one completely, with one "transaction", that God is real.
So how much does it take?? Almost nothing.
God is only looking for a mustard seed worth of faith...which He will reward overwhelmingly....and then some.
lol @ DH for gettin worked up over thisbut it's all good, i understand where ur coming from 100%
oh yeah, most azns are atheist and don't really practice buddhism, and i think japan's other main religion is shintoism
I am not worked up Bro.And I was just thorwing things out there for the sake of debate.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
i tend to disagree based on your previous statement where you made an analogy to investing. you had said you only needed to start with a penny (or the mustard seed), but if you want to keep getting more and more back (which you assume that you will want to), you have to keep investing more.Except for one thing...it takes virtually no faith to start with. Only the grain of mustard seed. Ever seen one? You need a strong magnifying glass.
That miniscule amount of faith, demonstrated by ones actions, can bring more then enough "return" to convince one completely, with one "transaction", that God is real.
So how much does it take?? Almost nothing.
God is only looking for a mustard seed worth of faith...which He will reward overwhelmingly....and then some.
so i guess what i'm saying is, even if all that's needed is a mustard seed, or in reality, an open mind and heart to accept christ, it takes a lot more to become a firm believer with great faith.
it's ok, you can admit it to me, KITT already told me about your views on this anywayI am not worked up Bro.
With your statement you have simply pointed out how the majority of mankind tends to follow "tradition".
Many people who call themselves "Christians" are no exception. Often, the words of men are revered more then the Word of God.
Nevertheless, God calls mankind to cease from following tradition and follow Him. The fact the majority does not respond to that call doesnt in any way disprove that call. It only shows the condition mankind is in.
Fact is, those who hear His voice and who truly follow God have always been a small minority in comparison to humanity overall.
Looking to other humans for our "example" or to show you the way will virtually always fail.
"My sheep hear my voice...they follow (ONLY) Me" - Jesus
The ONLY way that RELIGION (Not, God, or spirituality) can work is if EVERY man that has ever died and WILL die gets at least 1 opportunity to learn about Christ. That is not the case, even w/ all of the technology and missionaries we have today. RELIGION in itself is the 1st step to spiritual prejudiced.... and well, we all know what a GREAT thing prejudice is.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
I see that...but maybe you overlooked something else I said....the rate of return.
Unlike money it doesnt take repeated investments for years or lifetimes, although if one does that the reward will be beyond comprehension, but thats not required.
Furthermore, my illustration is just that, an illustration. It certainly falls short in it's description.
Like I said...those who don't "invest" will not ever know.
with your last statement you ALMOST seem to be making the assumption that i haven't invested...which i can tell you is not the case...no need to get into details but let's just say that you're not speaking to someone who is agnostic and not atheist for a good reason.
God=Jesus=Spirtuality...all are the same thing, regardless of the names mankind attaches to it.The ONLY way that RELIGION (Not, God, or spirituality) can work is if EVERY man that has ever died and WILL die gets at least 1 opportunity to learn about Christ. That is not the case, even w/ all of the technology and missionaries we have today. RELIGION in itself is the 1st step to spiritual prejudiced.... and well, we all know what a GREAT thing prejudice is.
There is NO spirtuality without God.
Of course there's spiritualism...the worshipping of devils.
God is within every human, regardless of whether theyve read or seen a Bible.
They either follow their GOD GIVEN concience (knowlege/sense of right and wrong) or not.
Your condemnation of religions is really a result of how MEN have treated you or other men, NOT a result of there being no Creator God. It also demonstrates how there are man-made religions that use Gods name but really arent "of God".
^^ LOL. You do not even know me... you know nothing of how I have "been treated". LOL --> that's laughable at best.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
I have implied no such thing. Nor have I intended to.
I am only stating what I know to be true. How that applies or doesnt apply to you I have no idea.
Ok. I was being nice at 1st. Now I will play. So are you saying that Christianity and all that it entails is Truth?
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Your argument is quite weak then...and you are double talking...you were the one that brought up prejudice...which as a matter of fact IS how men treat others....whether thats you or mankind in general.^^ LOL. You do not even know me... you know nothing of how I have "been treated". LOL --> that's laughable at best.
I am not playing...this isnt a game...I am for real.
First explain to me what Christianity IS and all that IT entails....then perhaps I can attempt to answer that.
but how can you possibly measure rate of return on FAITH? especially when it almost is guaranteed to vary from individual to individual?
also i disagree with your view that repeated investments over years or a lifetime is not necessary. think of it this way, i learned basic addition and subtraction in kindergarten, if i don't reinvest (by using it, keeping the skills sharp), am i guaranteed to know how to do it when i'm 80 yrs old?
faith as i know it and as i believe is an investment that needs to be made continuously in order to remember the bible's teachings and live by them.
Actually the end result "intrest rate" is the same for all. Its been published.
Also, I dont guarantee anything...God does however.
My argument is weak. Do you know what my argument is? The only thing that I have DEFINITELY said is that RELIGIONS weakens and has weakened true spirituality. I have not otherwise said what I belive in or do not believe in... and that's by design. I play advocate a LOT to see if people know WHY they believe or do not believe a certain thing. The fact is, more times than not, a devout Christian wants you to listen to their views and will not even LISTEN to the views of others... yet they call other people "narrow-minded". Their answer when they get cornered is always the "gray area" of FAITH. "Oh Bob, just have faith"... like it's THAT simple. LOL.
I never said that there is no creator or God. However, siding w/ a religion or condeming another religion, or saying that YOUR God is THE God and every1 else's is wrong put "limitations" on the very God you say is ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING. He is SO ALL POWERFUL that he can only save 1 race (relgion) of people? That says to me that there are, and always was, millions of people who never had a chance at making it to heaven in the 1st place do you not agree. BOTTOM LINE: If your God is as powerful as you say he is, then he is too big to fit inside of "Christianity".
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
i was never contesting the END RESULT, but since this discussion began based on what needed to be invested in order to obtain those end results.
and i never claimed that you could or couldn't guarantee anything so i don't know why that was brought up?
Got you. My bad on the misunderstanding, dude. I know of God. I'm not all that faithful, but I do realize that I am weak-minded in his and others presence. Later, QD.
FOR MORE INFO, CLICK THE PIC!!!
j, if your arguement is that religion weakens, then yes I agree. Following the priciples of a particular group of people is not what God calls us to do. We are to seek Him and His truth and His way, not those of any group on earth. This includes ANY religion.
I don't follow a religion, I follow Jesus. Religion leaves room for fault, God doesn't. I happen to go to a Baptist church, which I do not follow to a "T" your typical Baptist "guidline". This particular church best suited the guidelines God has put in my heart to follow.
If there is one suggestion I could make to those who don't believe or have a hard time believing, its to stop focusing on the religion and focus on God. If you really want to know more, just ask. Take a leap of faith and just ask God "if you're really there, open my eyes to see you". May not get your answer immediately, but you'll get an answer.
Psalm 145:18 "The Lord is close to all who call on him, yes, to all who call on him sincerely."
^^ very well said.
"I'm not a gynecologist... but I'll take a look."
Well said
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