Pregunta?

[Tasuki_Civic]

i had a discussion with a friend about the purpose in life as a chrisitan.


i dont understand why there are so many rules about this religion and all you have to do is ask god for your forgiviness and you will go to heaven.


ive been told from many pple that even if you are a natural born killer for years and get caught. then before you get fried in the pin you ask for forgiviness pple say that you wil still go to heaven.

so whats the point if you have sex before marriage, drink, smoke, and even try to kill yourself and you still go to heaven? just make sure you do it before you die so you wont go to hell.

theres no purpose for all the rules in the religion that stops you from doing all this and its just simple to ask. the only secrect about that is you have to mean what you say when you ask for forgivness.


~~Now dont get on me about this. im only asking what you guys think because ive been told this from MANY pple who are chrisitains~~

[metalman]

You have been somewhat misinformed.

First, there are not "so many rules" in true Christianity. Some churches have added all numbers of man made rules to Gods religion, something Christ admonished His followers against.

Secondly, willful sin and repentance as one willful act gets one no where near heaven.
That is a nonsensical roman catholic notion that has "infected" many so-called christain churches.

Its true that any sin can be forgiven, except one, BUT no one will fool the only perfect Judge when it comes to willful sin and insincere phony repentance.

That being said, it is also true that a murderer or similar wicked person can repent and be forgiven but that act MUST be genuine, not some plan to sneak it in before death. Thats neither logical or Biblical.

True repentance involves more then saying "I am sorry"

God calls for mankind to repent AND turn from ALL sin....immediately.

"Choose ye THIS DAY whom ye will serve...."

"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live."

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."


"Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God..."

[ShooterMcGavin]

it's all based on faith and one's relationship w/god so to speak as those in question and god are the only ones who know if they are truly sorry/repentent for their sins. no way for anyone else to know who actually went to hell and who didn't (such as serial killers and the like that repented for their sins before their death).

[4dmin]

i had a discussion with a friend about the purpose in life as a chrisitan.


i dont understand why there are so many rules about this religion and all you have to do is ask god for your forgiviness and you will go to heaven.


ive been told from many pple that even if you are a natural born killer for years and get caught. then before you get fried in the pin you ask for forgiviness pple say that you wil still go to heaven.

so whats the point if you have sex before marriage, drink, smoke, and even try to kill yourself and you still go to heaven? just make sure you do it before you die so you wont go to hell.

theres no purpose for all the rules in the religion that stops you from doing all this and its just simple to ask. the only secrect about that is you have to mean what you say when you ask for forgivness.


~~Now dont get on me about this. im only asking what you guys think because ive been told this from MANY pple who are chrisitains~~

just think you could be sitting next to hitler in heaven :jerkit:

[ShooterMcGavin]

negatory, he took his own life, no heaven for him.

[4dmin]

negatory, he took his own life, no heaven for him.

yes if that was correct, i've read some conflicting stories on his actual death. ; but again who really knows.

[babygurl]

As Metalman stated, you have to mean that you are sorry for the sins you commited....repentance has to be pure of heart.

And he also stated, that God the perfect Judge knows everything, and that is true.

And as far as the rules, they are guide lines, in life...God also gave us free will to make our own choices....

[metalman]

just think you could be sitting next to hitler in heaven :jerkit:

Actually not. Hitler committed suicide, his last act was a sin, thats not how one gets to heaven.

[metalman]

As Metalman stated, you have to mean that you are sorry for the sins you commited....repentance has to be pure of heart.

And he also stated, that God the perfect Judge knows everything, and that is true.

And as far as the rules, they are guide lines, in life...God also gave us free will to make our own choices....

Thank you for that.

You are very right when you speak of freewill. One "infection" of nonsense among so called Christians its the idea that others must be "pushed", forced by civil law even, to be moral. That is not a Christian principle. Freewill includes the freedom to choose the wrong path, or any path, and the consequenses of that path. That is a true Christian principle.

[4dmin]

Actually not. Hitler committed suicide, his last act was a sin, thats not how one gets to heaven.

umm he was found w/ a gun shot to the head if i'm not mistaken and his mistress died by poison.. so there is speculation on how he died, so it is ver possible someone else shot him. so like i said in the previous post as suggested... who knows? have you been to heaven to check to see? ok.

[Tasuki_Civic]

You have been somewhat misinformed.

First, there are not "so many rules" in true Christianity. Some churches have added all numbers of man made rules to Gods religion, something Christ admonished His followers against.

Secondly, willful sin and repentance as one willful act gets one no where near heaven.
That is a nonsensical roman catholic notion that has "infected" many so-called christain churches.

Its true that any sin can be forgiven, except one, BUT no one will fool the only perfect Judge when it comes to willful sin and insincere phony repentance.

That being said, it is also true that a murderer or similar wicked person can repent and be forgiven but that act MUST be genuine, not some plan to sneak it in before death. Thats neither logical or Biblical.

True repentance involves more then saying "I am sorry"

God calls for mankind to repent AND turn from ALL sin....immediately.

"Choose ye THIS DAY whom ye will serve...."

"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live."

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."


"Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God..."

im not trying to be a smart ass so dont take it as that. but im not looking for someone to quote the bible. i would like your actually insite of it. those who quote books dont have a mind of their own. with messages from the bible you have to de-code them to even understand some of it.

i do understand all the things that you have to be true to your heart when you ask for forgiviness. but ok....hitler for example. you know what he had done. but yet lets say 2 weeks before he died he was true when he meant that he was sorry for the awful things he had done and yadda yadda yadda.........then someone kills him. WILL HE GO TO HEAVEN??

another example. i cannot remember who this killer was, but he apparantly killed over a dozen pple. but the day of his death which he was put in the chair. the pple who were the witnesses saw him pray and ask for forgiveness and the witnesses swore up and down even ( strong belief chirstians) that he went to heaven.

so whats the difference you go to heaven if you ask for forgivness a couple of days before you die? or you will go to heaven no matter what time as long as you ask for forgiviness before you die?


i know i have like 5 questions in one but....is the purpose of life as a christian to live good and pray and always ask for forgivness jus so we can go to heaven? is living a punishment so we can show god that we are loyal and then when we show that we are ( though life) we go to heaven to be with god?

what purpose does it serve to live life? when its a sin to kill one that has hurt you badly or it is a sin to have a child before marrige.

why not live to be one with yourself praise a god and not worship jesus. yes he died for our sins but what does that mean eactly. i thught jesus was a teacher authority didnt like and then they killed him cause he had too much power.( MLK JFK and so on) ( thats just the jist of it, didnt want to go into detailed cause ive already wrote enough)

and how can you actualy believe all the stories like lusapher(sorry cant spell it) the devil and god how they are against each other.why out of all things is he a snake? why not a snail or a bird? jus for that my grandmother hates snake anything!! because of the bible. and they are just as deadly as any other animal? alot of pple say " well thats just how it is" " god made it like that and thats what the book says" but these days pple dont believe everything that is written in a book. and bibbles are re-made every few years. How do you really know what Jesus has really done or said.

like that one guy that was on Oprah that wrote a fiction book and he swore up and down it was still a non-fiction book. pple had an outrage it was all over the news and cnn.

im not against christianity or any religion but alot ...and i mean alot of pple who are believe that any other religion is a fake and is not the true story....they even feel offensive when a person says they are catholic or muslim like they are beneath them.

but isnt there a famous quote " He who wins the war, writes the book"

[ShooterMcGavin]

doesn't matter who swore up and down what the guy ACTED like before he died, no one else knows/knew except him and god.

according to the bible, a christian's time on earth is just a short "pitstop" before making it to heaven where they will enjoy eternal life with god. obviously, to be a good christian, u are supposed to live with good values, morals and do all that a christian is supposed to do.

and don't ask me how i can believe in god and satan (i'm agnostic), it's all based on faith, belief in something that can not be proved scientifically.

[buddha@TeamFX]

In my eyes and what I believe and was taught...You also have to be convicted by god to surender your life to him

[Tasuki_Civic]

doesn't matter who swore up and down what the guy ACTED like before he died, no one else knows/knew except him and god.

according to the bible, a christian's time on earth is just a short "pitstop" before making it to heaven where they will enjoy eternal life with god. obviously, to be a good christian, u are supposed to live with good values, morals and do all that a christian is supposed to do.

and don't ask me how i can believe in god and satan (i'm agnostic), it's all based on faith, belief in something that can not be proved scientifically.

whats faith to you? so what to you believe scientific values? that everything happened over time and there is no god no maker of this world or human kind. or animal?


ooh and i didnt ask you i was talkin to metalman

[Tasuki_Civic]

In my eyes and what I believe and was taught...You also have to be convicted by god to surender your life to him

you have to be found quilty by god inorder to surender you life to him? what do you mean?

[ShooterMcGavin]

whats faith to you? so what to you believe scientific values? that everything happened over time and there is no god no maker of this world or human kind. or animal?


ooh and i didnt ask you i was talkin to metalman

there's a reason i told u i was agnostic (go look it up if u don't know what that is). and if u weren't talkin to me then direct ur post to someone to begin with and stop being a fuckstick about it. plus, why'd u respond with more questions???

[Romeyo07]

Actually not. Hitler committed suicide, his last act was a sin, thats not how one gets to heaven.

sorry but you're wrong. If my last act is sin, I'm still forgiven and covered by His blood. No where in the bible does it state that, and I know you can't prove it.

Reason being, we sin and don't even know it...since there aren't any different levels of sin, my sin of having rage when someone cuts me off in traffic is no different than my sin of commiting suicide. I go home and live my life and act as if nothing happened later. Not once in the bible does it say anything going to hell for commiting suicide. The only thing that sends you to hell is the rejection of Jesus.

[Tasuki_Civic]

doesn't matter who swore up and down what the guy ACTED like before he died, no one else knows/knew except him and god.

according to the bible, a christian's time on earth is just a short "pitstop" before making it to heaven where they will enjoy eternal life with god. obviously, to be a good christian, u are supposed to live with good values, morals and do all that a christian is supposed to do.

and don't ask me how i can believe in god and satan (i'm agnostic), it's all based on faith, belief in something that can not be proved scientifically.

there's a reason i told u i was agnostic (go look it up if u don't know what that is). and if u weren't talkin to me then direct ur post to someone to begin with and stop being a fuckstick about it. plus, why'd u respond with more questions???

shut the hell up you dumb retard im not lookin for a fight or a smartass in this thread. your the one who said

it's all based on faith,

i know what agnostic means and if i didnt i wouldnt have asked you that question. i didnt start the thread for one person ...."IF YOU READ THE THREAD!!!" you would know i was responding to someone else. and also this isnt a thread for you so why would you respond if you are unsure or dont believe in a a higher being. please make yourself useful and stay in the whoreslounge where you belong.

Thank-you

[Tasuki_Civic]

sorry but you're wrong. If my last act is sin, I'm still forgiven and covered by His blood. No where in the bible does it state that, and I know you can't prove it.

Reason being, we sin and don't even know it...since there aren't any different levels of sin, my sin of having rage when someone cuts me off in traffic is no different than my sin of commiting suicide. I go home and live my life and act as if nothing happened later. Not once in the bible does it say anything going to hell for commiting suicide. The only thing that sends you to hell is the rejection of Jesus.

really i didnt know. other plpe have told me differently as if it is in the bible. is that one of the man made rules ...commiting suicide?

[Tasuki_Civic]

i mean thte reason why i made this thread is beacause i would like a better understanding and a little insight. if i go to a church MOST will recite out the book. i want to know what it means. in a way it has to be broken down a little to me because many pple go by what things are and not know why

[Romeyo07]

man made myth...and large debate in Christian society. I was raised to believe the same thing, but have yet to find evidence in the bible where it states that if you die in sin you go to hell. If that's the case, then EVERYONE will go to hell, since we sin without knowing it.

Tasuki, in lamens terms...when someone comes to Christ the next thing you do is absolutely nothing. Don't stop your habits, your way of life, etc. God makes the changes in us, which is why I don't do drugs anymore, swear like a sailor, etc. I'm far from perfect, but its ok. God will only make the changes in you if you truely desire to want to change.

I was tired of the drama with my x, the late night drinking binges, random immorality, etc. I lived the same life many people live now. I just don't feel like doing that stuff anymore. I no longer crave needing to smoke a blunt after a bad day, or cussing out the people who cut me off, etc.

The bible isn't a set of rules, it's a map.

I'm on AIM if you wanna talk: Romeyo07

[Tasuki_Civic]

i gotcha

[Romeyo07]

wow, that was easy

[ShooterMcGavin]

shut the hell up you dumb retard im not lookin for a fight or a smartass in this thread. your the one who said
i know what agnostic means and if i didnt i wouldnt have asked you that question. i didnt start the thread for one person ...."IF YOU READ THE THREAD!!!" you would know i was responding to someone else. and also this isnt a thread for you so why would you respond if you are unsure or dont believe in a a higher being. please make yourself useful and stay in the whoreslounge where you belong.

Thank-you

oooh, dumb retard? what'd you just graduate from the 3rd grade yesterday and copped those terms on your way out? please. i KNOW you didn't start this thread for one person that's why i fuckin posted trying to give you some insight you so desperately craved, if you didn't like it then just ignore it, why try to start some shit by mocking what i had to say? and just because i'm not believer doesn't mean i haven't been around religion for the better part of my life, being exposed to the teachings of the bible. how ignorant of you to think that just because one does not believe, one does not know.

oh and i belong in the whoreslounge? funny coming from you, one who seldom wanders away from the DICK and SHIT posts in the sex and nws sections. with that said, let me end on a verse for you: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

[ShooterMcGavin]

sorry but you're wrong. If my last act is sin, I'm still forgiven and covered by His blood. No where in the bible does it state that, and I know you can't prove it.

Reason being, we sin and don't even know it...since there aren't any different levels of sin, my sin of having rage when someone cuts me off in traffic is no different than my sin of commiting suicide. I go home and live my life and act as if nothing happened later. Not once in the bible does it say anything going to hell for commiting suicide. The only thing that sends you to hell is the rejection of Jesus.

i retract my statement as you are correct on this, i had forgotten the whole "suicide leads to hell" thing comes from catholicism

[Romeyo07]

its a weird situation, on the one hand, you're forgiven of your sins....but on the other if you've truely accepted Jesus, then suicide usually isn't something you'd consider. It's the afternoon and my brain hurts...I'll start thinking again tomorrow.

[ShooterMcGavin]

indeed, still sickening to know that there's a possibility that someone like hitler could indeed be sitting in heaven right now...

[Romeyo07]

what's more sick...if he's really there, or that if he was a Christian (which I don't believe he was), that he's also forgiven.

Should someone not be allowed into heaven simply because their sin was made public? What if Charles Manson became a Christian? Should he not be allowed in because of the things he's done? If this was the case, then no one would go to heaven. When it comes to sin, it's black and white, no gray. All sin is at one level, with no sin greater or lesser than another. We've all done rotten things before, I don't care who you are or how good you think you are. That's the best part about being Christian, is knowing that you're accepted, regardless of your past.

[ShooterMcGavin]

^^^exactly, which in some ways is another contributing factor to me being on the fence. i'm very much a logical type person, i believe in right and wrong and logic tells me that one should be held responsible in every way for doing sick things (murder, rape, etc). to think that they could be excused is something that i can't quite come to grips with, at least not yet.

[Romeyo07]

Its not excused, it's forgiven. You forgive your child from stealing from the cookie jar, but he's still grounded for doing it. It works the same way with God. Though I am forgiven, I do pay the consequence of my actions.

[ShooterMcGavin]

correct, but in the christian religion, those consequences are knowing that u have failed god/jesus. to me, it's hard to believe that some so called christians who have spent their lives doing less than great things are actually "paying for those consequences" in an acceptable manner. however, i regress, as if god finds it acceptable, then it should be good enough for everyone else...

[Romeyo07]

God doesn't put that guilt in us, we put it there ourselves. That's not our pennance. In fact, God wants us to "move on" when we recognize that we've done wrong. When He forgives, He forgets.

I'm not too sure I get you on "to me, it's hard to believe that some so called christians who have spent their lives doing less than great things are actually "paying for those consequences" in an acceptable manner".

Sin in not acceptable, but forgivable. He'll never accept sin, just forgive it. As far as paying for our crimes, that's why we have gov't in place. God wants us to follow the laws of man (i.e. gov't law, etc.)

[ShooterMcGavin]

what i meant by that was, i don't think some have paid for it in our society, according to our laws, in a sufficient manner. not to mention there are ones out there who are able to slip through the net of the law, those who never truly pay for their sins even during the time which they are on earth.

[Romeyo07]

but how do we know that punishment hasn't been handed down to them? A job promotion passed up to someone else, paying a speeding ticket, etc...these are things we probably wont see but do happen. Some say its Karma, some call it just random, or it just might be divine punishment.

[ShooterMcGavin]

that's one way to look at it and i agree for the most part. but what about certain ppl in organized crime? crime/mafia bosses, drug kingpins, etc? i realize over time, many have been brought to "justice" or killed or overthrown or whatever, but certainly there have been many living comfortable extravagant lifestyles as well?

[Romeyo07]

This is true, but I would hardly consider fearing being caught or wacked on a daily basis living a good life. Again, we really don't know what sort of consequences people pay, rich or poor. Wealth means nothing to God, so one's status in society doesn't dictate God's approval. If that were true, he'd hate me

IMO, the hardness of their hearts has pushed God away, and they live thier lives with the possibility of losing it all. Some are luckier than others. The difference between them and us is that God, His Grace and Mercy, is with us all the time, and non existant with them. When I fall, He picks me up...when they do, their recovery is up to them.

[ShooterMcGavin]

i can see your point of view, although i'm not sure that i agree (being that i'm not a believer).

[Romeyo07]

What aren't you sure of? What I said or how it applies to you?

[Tasuki_Civic]

oooh, dumb retard? what'd you just graduate from the 3rd grade yesterday and copped those terms on your way out? please. i KNOW you didn't start this thread for one person that's why i fuckin posted trying to give you some insight you so desperately craved, if you didn't like it then just ignore it, why try to start some shit by mocking what i had to say? and just because i'm not believer doesn't mean i haven't been around religion for the better part of my life, being exposed to the teachings of the bible. how ignorant of you to think that just because one does not believe, one does not know.

oh and i belong in the whoreslounge? funny coming from you, one who seldom wanders away from the DICK and SHIT posts in the sex and nws sections. with that said, let me end on a verse for you: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

im not disregaurding you from not believing. lol please i wouldnt do that to anyone thats terrible to do.

i KNOW you didn't start this thread for one person that's why i fuckin posted trying to give you some insight you so desperately craved,

then what was the purpose of me stating who i was speaking to?? none.and thats your fault for reading it out of text. i didnt say it to be sarcastic or to mock you and be rude. you took it that way. I have nothing agaisnt you its you who has something against me because i talk about men the way you talk about women. Who Cares??!!! i simply asked you a question that i was unsure off you didnt have to snapped back and imply as if im stupid. that was you who lashed out 1st not me.

and leave your quotes to yourself your not teaching anyone aything by doing that.

[ShooterMcGavin]

im not disregaurding you from not believing. lol please i wouldnt do that to anyone thats terrible to do.



then what was the purpose of me stating who i was speaking to?? none.and thats your fault for reading it out of text. i didnt say it to be sarcastic or to mock you and be rude. you took it that way. I have nothing agaisnt you its you who has something against me because i talk about men the way you talk about women. Who Cares??!!! i simply asked you a question that i was unsure off you didnt have to snapped back and imply as if im stupid. that was you who lashed out 1st not me.

and leave your quotes to yourself your not teaching anyone aything by doing that.

look, u snapped first telling me u weren't even talkin to me, like i had no business replying to a public post in a public forum? whatever, suit urself if ignorance is ur thing