Christians...do you drink?

[metalman]

wasn't trying to change the subject, nor did i say it came from you, just making an observation and asking for your take on it. you quoted examples of how drinking was involved in some bad things happening to ppl in the Bible. i quoted the only 2 examples of birthday celebrations in the bible, both with less than happy endings as well, and asked for your opinion about it. usually you don't have a problem sharing your views

Actually I dont have a problem sharing. But your statement was that the anti-birthday crowd uses the same line of thought to condemn birthday partys as I was to defend the sobriety of Christ and THAT is not correct. The Bible contains abundantly CLEAR instruction with rergard to alcohol. It contains NO such instruction with regard to birthdays. I have noticed in my discussions with you that when faced with an argument that has merit you tend to shift the subject so I simply try to keep the discussion on topic...which in addition to Huluds question is...did Jesus make booze for drunken party goers.

and up to now, you still have yet to explain what ELSE the phrase "too much to drink" could have possibly meant to the Jews during this time period. it just doesn't fit with the explanation you offered. maybe others are getting it and i'm just slow...

It fits it just that youre stuck on the phrase "too much". This is understandable given our modern idea pertaining to "wine". Have you studied into the original text for a closer meaning? Its quite clear to me that one can have too much, or their fill, or be full, from anything whether it be fermented or not.

If you follow your premise of "too much" booze, again we would be faced with the picture that Jesus Christ, who is NOT the author of confusion, and IS the Author of Scriptural principle, would have supplied liquor to those who already had "too much to drink" which would be highly unethical and certianly not in keeping with Scriptures pertaining to stronk drink. The logic here works fine. I am saying there is no way Christ supplied booze to the drunken. In fact this accusation was one His enemies made of him, that He was a drunkard and a winebibber. Not true!

I realize many may remain unconvinced, thats okay, I can accept that.

[trini_gsr]

if i remember right, we've only been in a discussion once or twice before . and like the last time, i think we'll just agree to disagree on this. as i've said a couple times already, your point of view certainly makes sense...it's probably the safest and most sensible view to hold. but there is merit to the other side of the argument. and i think that's been clearly demonstrated. it's up to the believer to decide...whatever leaves him with a clear conscience...

lol...for the record i should say that i like the couple of discussions we've had because it challenges me (and hopefully others) to really think about these subjects on a deeper level, rather than just accepting blindly. a lot of people have discussions about religion, but aren't really willing to change or modify their positions. personally, i'm always willing to learn...and i try to walk away with something from every intelligent discussion...

i'm still kinda new to IA so...i'm sure we'll bump heads again

[metalman]

for the record i should say that i like the couple of discussions we've had because it challenges me (and hopefully others) to really think about these subjects on a deeper level, rather than just accepting blindly. a lot of people have discussions about religion, but aren't really willing to change or modify their positions. personally, i'm always willing to learn...and i try to walk away with something from every intelligent discussion...

i'm still kinda new to IA so...i'm sure we'll bump heads again

I agree. "Bumping heads" as you put, or exchanging thoughtful ideas, can be generally benificial to those that engage in it with any degree of open mind.
I am no exception.