Military
i was watching saving private ryan the other day. you knwo barry pepper (the sniper) right before he shoots the germans in the last scene he would say something to god. and before he shoots the sniper that shot vin deisel he says something like god give me strength.
anyways my point is what do you all (everyone not just christians) feel about this? like asking god for help to kill people
Val for President
maybe hes asking forgiveness for what hes about to do?
LIRL.
anyways.. killing someone in any situation is unjustifiable imo.
i can understand the forgiveness thing, but then that means he knows hes committing a sin.....Originally Posted by babowc
but what i dont understand is the people in the military shooting others and claiming they are religious
Val for President
I can see why he says it, he is fighting for a cause that he thinks is right and finds himself in trouble. I can also see what you mean about how it may be a little wrong because he is commiting a mortal sin. I think that it is okay because if it was real life, maybe he did not chose to be there.
-Aaron-
he may not have chosen to be there but he did choose to pull the trigger, he could have been a chaplin, im just saying
Val for President
If he didn't, he would have been dead.
turn the other cheek?
Val for President
what do you mean?
if your harmed arent you supposed to turn the other cheek?
i.e. instead of shooting, dont
Val for President
I see where ou are coming from. Well, when some people commit themslves to something, like a country, they have to put their lives in the live to survive. Maybe they think, it's better the other people than them.
What do you think?
i agree with that, fuck if i was sent to war i would shoot anyone trying to take my life.
but then again im not religious so its not contrary to my beliefs.
thats why i made this thread to see how everyone felt about this
Val for President
Gotcha. Well although I'm not a strong catholic, I turn to ask god for help when I find myself in trouble or pain, which is what I was taught to do. Like, "...he is sick...we will pray to god for him..." People turn to god when they need help for anything and in this case, it is his life. Capiche?
i understand what your saying, but why would god help him live by killing gods people? food for thought
Val for President
I dont think he is necessarily asking god for the strength to kill specifically.. but the ability to do what needs to be done although it may not be morally right.
Say for instance, someone that robs to feed their child may do the same.. its not a matter of right or wrong, it is just that for that moment that person feels like they have something to accomplish one way or another and need to know that god is with them and will be with them regardless.
I'm not deeply religious by any means, this is just my interpretation.
Thats why there are concientious objectors.
Some justify the killing in their mind...and those moral choices are theirs to make, right or wrong, not unlike abortion and similar other moral questions.
Very interesting topic, Hulud. Very Deep.
For those wondering about what the sniper was saying, it was along the lines of "O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me"
"Be not that far from me, for trouble is near; haste Thee to help me. "
"Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. "
"My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. "
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
thanks i didnt knwo what he said
Val for President
If this were a real circumstance, with you being that sniper, who wouldnt shoot?
I am 99% sure I'd pull that trigger for fear of my own life.
Hard to admit, but its true.
I Being a soldier AND a christian, I find it perfectly fine to ask God for power to commit a sin. Just think for a moment, If God didn't want me to do this He would stop me. Whether from death or my weapon jamming. I believe what I'm doing is justifible and if it isn't I'm ready to go Hell, as long as my wife is safe. I protect lives by ending lives, And when your at war you really don't think about religion, except praying.
- Private 1st Class Cato, 517th Infantry Division
^ ummm, sorry but i don't think GOD allows you to commit a sin and justifiable... well i guess everything is open to interpetation as far as the bible goes but i dont' think that is anywhere in there.
either way, its a sin.
since you dont have free will and allJust think for a moment, If God didn't want me to do this He would stop me.
maybe you should think about what you are preaching.Whether from death or my weapon jamming. I believe what I'm doing is justifible and if it isn't I'm ready to go Hell, as long as my wife is safe. I protect lives by ending lives, And when your at war you really don't think about religion, except praying.
practice what you preach
Val for President
I get home and this is what I see. Let me shed some more light on the conversation.
*These are my thoughts and can be wrong.*
So your saying that God has no power over me? That I'm just this simple man that can over come God? You can live your life without help from God but at any moment God can change what you do if you let Him.
since you dont have free will and all
Its not about preaching, That was just my IDEA on the situation. I could be very wrong or I could be right. Religion is at many differnet levels. How you think and how I think are very different. I live my life every day asking God for advice or help and never once has He steered me wrong.maybe you should think about what you are preaching.
practice what you preach
Peolpe sin every day and go to confession to repent. If you can be truly forgiven in the eyes of God for the sin, wouldn't that be justifing it?
First, thank you for serving our country. You have my respect for that.
Second, its not for me to judge you, so I won't. You should follow your own concience.
That being said, I dont think there is such a thing as a "justifiable sin" in terms of the Bible or the doctrine of Christ. Fact is, you can serve your country without killing anyone. Granted, its not easy but others have done it.
One even won the Congressional Medal of Honor without so much as ever firing a shot. Regardless, I hope God will guide you in your descisions and keep you safe.
Two problems there...
First, catholic confession is not Biblical. One need not ever confess to a sinful human priest to be forgiven of sin. In fact blabbing all ones sins to other humans who have nothing to do with what you may have done wrong should probably be avoided.
Secondly, to knowingly sin with the intent of asking forgivness is something you would have to be judged for by God, so I wont go there.
Only thing I will say is what the Bible says.."thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God... "
When I deploy in a few months I will pull the trigger so yall have the right to have this conversation. I see no problem lettin that round go downrange to keep myself, or my battles alive.
If you ain't Cav, you ain't shit!
no you just think that (if there is a god) if you do something bad god will stop you. from what ive learned about christianity god will not stop you.
never steered you wrong, yet you are murdering? :confused:Its not about preaching, That was just my IDEA on the situation. I could be very wrong or I could be right. Religion is at many differnet levels. How you think and how I think are very different. I live my life every day asking God for advice or help and never once has He steered me wrong.
confession cleanses YOUR concious, not the soulPeolpe sin every day and go to confession to repent. If you can be truly forgiven in the eyes of God for the sin, wouldn't that be justifing it?
but anyways i would like to thank you for protecting and serving our country though, thank you
Val for President
Thank you for serving our country.
As I have stated several times, let each follow his own concience.
Stay safe!
i agree with you, but i dont follow the bible
Val for President
Metalman, I do not tempt our Lord, but simply ask if what I am doing is right.
1 john 1:9 - "If we confess our sins, He [God] is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity." St. John is very plain. He says it flat out.
I hope that covers it and if not I'll awnser more tommorow. And if it helps you I'm not in Iraq anymore, I've been re-stationed in GA. I'm now with the 29th Infantry Regement.
I wasnt judging you or saying you were..I cannot discern the heart, only God can. I was just mentioning a Bible principle.
1 John 1:9 is certainly true.Just goes to show one doesnt need a human priest to be forgiven.
you guys arguing how he's wrong and all.
i am definitely sure any of us would do the same thing if it were threatening our very lives.
i'm a christian and all, but i'd still pull that trigger for fear of my own life.
of course, I wouldnt do anything to be in that circumstance in the first place.. but if it came down to it, ^that'd happen. Most likely.
as i said i would do it too but i dont believe in the bible so im not being hypocritical
Val for President
I'm not religous and don't really know much about the bible. but once in awhile I speak to God. But my feeling on this situation is that if you have to shoot some that is trying to harm people then you are taking only 1 life to save many. I belive that is the right thing to do if you are permitted to do so. and it will not be looked down upon. but will be passed by.
I guess that makes me a hypocrit
but I'd be hardpressed to find anyone who wouldn't do the same.. of course, that doesn't make it justifiable.
It's how humans are. No way around it
but how do you know they are gonna harm others? they are just doing the same as you (you meaning the person in the military)
Val for President
Of course, in the "terrorist's" point of view, we're the "terrorists".
so.. i dont know how that concludes.
they're doing the same thing in their minds as we are, if we were to go to war with some group of people, that is.
but im referring to the other wars like ww2 the german soldiers were just defending their country
Val for President
Its as old as war...still happens today, happened in ancient egypt
yes, i meant the same thing.
in any situation.
not just the current.. iraq vs us situation.
anyhow.. killing is never justifiable by any means. (note: my post before. meaning what i'd do isnt justifiable also.)
This is why i hate organized religion
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