For the religious (NO ONE FLAME THIS)

[Hulud]

i know this is gonna get ugly with some people who dont know how to hold a civil discussion
(hopefully we will just have the regulars in this one)

with that said, what is your feeling towards homosexual people?

[metalman]

My feelings can be summarized in the following...

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

and....

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?"

[Kelly]

1st Corinthians- 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians live by the bible... And there it is- plain as day.

However, I do not judge. I have friends who are homosexual, all I can do is pray for them.

[1439/2000]

Is metalman really Jesus?

lol

I just don't get them. It used to be classified as a psychological disorder, was in the DSM (not diamond star motors), and it used to be diagnosed and people were sent to treatment facilities for it.

I can definitely see it as a disorder still, and some of them don't want to be gay and they fight it but don't get professional help. Same with being bipolar or schizo. Except schizo is not acceptable in the media now or funny, or great shoppers and dressers.

Why would you get treatment for a disorder thats not viewed as much as a disorder now?

[Hulud]

Is metalman really Jesus?

lol

i think so lol

I just don't get them. It used to be classified as a psychological disorder, was in the DSM (not diamond star motors), and it used to be diagnosed and people were sent to treatment facilities for it.

I can definitely see it as a disorder still, and some of them don't want to be gay and they fight it but don't get professional help. Same with being bipolar or schizo. Except schizo is not acceptable in the media now or funny, or great shoppers and dressers.

Why would you get treatment for a disorder thats not viewed as much as a disorder now?

i didnt really want a scientific debate, i was mainly looking for feelings towards them. but on the science note, i dont think it has anything to do with a "disorder" i feel that if your gay, your gay. you can fight it all you want because society frowns upon it, but your still going to be gay, no treatment will help you.

[1439/2000]

They make me feel uncomfortable.

I've been hit on by tons of gays, and not a militant homophobe or anything, hell, you've seen me. lol But my first reaction is to bow them in the face. It makes me feel....uncomfortable yeah.

But as far as gays that don't want to be flamboyant around me and the uber gay comments, they dont bother me.

[blacknightteg]

i have no bad feelings towards homosexuals what so ever, i know a few people that re gay and they are some of the nicest people. as a matter of fact. one of my dads' best friends is gay. he's cool as hell!

[Hulud]

They make me feel uncomfortable.

why?

I've been hit on by tons of gays, and not a militant homophobe or anything, hell, you've seen me. lol But my first reaction is to bow them in the face. It makes me feel....uncomfortable yeah.

yea ive seen you.
i dont understand though why being hit on by them is uncomfortable?
i mean you just say sorry im not gay

But as far as gays that don't want to be flamboyant around me and the uber gay comments, they dont bother me.

is it cause your embarassed to be seen with the flamboyant ones? jw

[metalman]

It is true I can condemn homosexual behaviour by use of Scripture. I cannot however condemn the person.

I think this point is illustrated in John 8:1-11

I will tell the story in my own words....

One day a group of concerned church leaders, do gooders, and people brought a woman to Jesus who had been caught in the act of adultery. This religious group asked Christ a question.
"Hey Jesus, adultery is a sin, the law says those caught in adultery should be stoned to death, what do you say?"
Jesus didnt answer them. Instead he stooped down and began writing on the ground.
They kept asking him so he stood up and replied "Whoever among you has no sin, let that person throw the first stone"

To their horror the religious leaders and bible thumpers realized Christ had written their sins on the ground. Even the secret sins they thought no one knew. In shame every do gooder left quickly one by one until only Jesus and the woman remained.

Jesus asked her "Where are those that accuse and condemn you? Who are they? Has no one thrown the first stone at you?"

The woman answered "No not one."

Jesus replied "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more, live a better life."

If the spotless, sinless Son of God didnt "throw stones" at a sinner how can we?
Do you feel superior to a homosexual because you have no homosexual feelings? Is adultery somehow a "better" sin then another?
Is one sin really worse then another? Other then blaspheming the Holy Spirit the Bible says all sins are the same.

My conclusion - If you say youre a Christian then do what Christ did. Shut up. Don't condemn. Encourage others to live a better life BY YOUR EXAMPLE.

BTW, this same principle should be followed by the "righteous" anti abortion activists as well. Those people make a mockery of Christainity by shouting at women that theyre going to hell and are baby killers, forcing their morals upon others and all the rest of it..etc etc...
NONE of that is in keeping with Biblical principles. NONE! No wonder athiests don't want any part of that "god".

[Killer]

my personal take... there is nothing wrong with someone that is homosexual... they are a person just like u and i, but homosexuality is wrong... no need for me to quote the bible verses, kelly already did.

[Hulud]

It is true I can condemn homosexual behaviour by use of Scripture. I cannot however condemn the person.

I think this point is illustrated in John 8:1-11

I will tell the story in my own words....

One day a group of concerned church leaders, do gooders, and people brought a woman to Jesus who had been caught in the act of adultery. This religious group asked Christ a question.
"Hey Jesus, adultery is a sin, the law says those caught in adultery should be stoned to death, what do you say?"
Jesus didnt answer them. Instead he stooped down and began writing on the ground.
They kept asking him so he stood up and replied "Whoever among you has no sin, let that person throw the first stone"

To their horror the religious leaders and bible thumpers realized Christ had written their sins on the ground. Even the secret sins they thought no one knew. In shame every do gooder left quickly one by one until only Jesus and the woman remained.

Jesus asked her "Where are those that accuse and condemn you? Who are they? Has no one thrown the first stone at you?"

The woman answered "No not one."

Jesus replied "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more, live a better life."

If the spotless, sinless Son of God didnt "throw stones" at a sinner how can we?
Do you feel superior to a homosexual because you have no homosexual feelings? Is adultery somehow a "better" sin then another?
Is one sin really worse then another? Other then blaspheming the Holy Spirit the Bible says all sins are the same.

My conclusion - If you say youre a Christian then do what Christ did. Shut up. Don't condemn. Encourage others to live a better life BY YOUR EXAMPLE.

BTW, this same principle should be followed by the "righteous" anti abortion activists as well. Those people make a mockery of Christainity by shouting at women that theyre going to hell and are baby killers, forcing their morals upon others and all the rest of it..etc etc...
NONE of that is in keeping with Biblical principles. NONE! No wonder athiests don't want any part of that "god".

you know what?
you are extremely educated on this, i like that

[Kelly]

BTW, this same principle should be followed by the "righteous" anti abortion activists as well. Those people make a mockery of Christainity by shouting at women that theyre going to hell and are baby killers, forcing their morals upon others and all the rest of it..etc etc...
NONE of that is in keeping with Biblical principles. NONE! No wonder athiests don't want any part of that "god".

I agree 100%!!! Very true... It's all about living a Christ-like example.

[1439/2000]

why?

Well, I don't like the idea they may possibly hit on me. "Hey nice ass" Cool. You can't touch it or do whatever you want to it. Mardi Gras 05, a week of defending my asshole pretty much. lol

yea ive seen you.
i dont understand though why being hit on by them is uncomfortable?
i mean you just say sorry im not gay

See above.

is it cause your embarassed to be seen with the flamboyant ones? jw

No, I'm never "seen" with them. I don't hang out with them because they make me uncomfortable, for reasons previously stated.

If you want to be gay, cool, just don't make it a chore to straight people.

Koramo (sp?)from Real World was a good example. You wouldn't know he was gay unless he told you. Not that its something to be ashamed of I guess but WHY advestise what you do in the bedroom? If you like whips and chains and shit in the bedroom, you don't have to wear the dominatrix suit in public to let everyone else know.

[Hulud]

Well, I don't like the idea they may possibly hit on me. "Hey nice ass" Cool. You can't touch it or do whatever you want to it. Mardi Gras 05, a week of defending my asshole pretty much. lol

well then i can kinda see how it makes you uncomfortable, but why prejudge them on how they act? i mean you wouldnt be friends with someone who is flamboyant?

No, I'm never "seen" with them. I don't hang out with them because they make me uncomfortable, for reasons previously stated.

If you want to be gay, cool, just don't make it a chore to straight people.

Koramo (sp?)from Real World was a good example. You wouldn't know he was gay unless he told you.

hows it a chore? i mean because not all gays are flamboyant of course they're gonna hit on you to find out if your gay too.

Not that its something to be ashamed of I guess but WHY advestise what you do in the bedroom? If you like whips and chains and shit in the bedroom, you don't have to wear the dominatrix suit in public to let everyone else know.

but then why advertise you're straight?

[Brett]

My outlook on gay people is the same as straight people. I dont care who someone wants to marry, fuck, or whatever. To me its not a sexual choice that would sway if I like them or not, and I cant ever understand people who hate gays, if you hate gays post up why, Cause id love to hear the logic in this one. Why is it anyones business what someone does if they arent doing it to you, why would you care?

[Hulud]

My outlook on gay people is the same as straight people. I dont care who someone wants to marry, fuck, or whatever. To me its not a sexual choice that would sway if I like them or not, and I cant ever understand people who hate gays, if you hate gays post up why, Cause id love to hear the logic in this one. Why is it anyones business what someone does if they arent doing it to you, why would you care?

[1439/2000]

You don't advertise you're straight, it should be assummed.


Nope, I wouldn't be friends with a flamer, or attention getting person, or a gangster, a whore.

Just lifestyles that wouldn't mix with mine.

[Hulud]

You don't advertise you're straight, it should be assummed.

it should?

Nope, I wouldn't be friends with a flamer, or attention getting person, or a gangster, a whore.

Just lifestyles that wouldn't mix with mine.

ok i see what you're saying, just anyone who wants attention to begin with

[Brett]

why should anyone have to advertise thier sexual choice, why is it anyone but thier business anyways?

[ISAtlanta300]

^^^ though the "hetero" lifestyle is advertised every day. Just look at a billboard, pick up a magazine.. watch a TV ad.... it is all about attracting the opposite sex.

[1439/2000]

^^^ though the "hetero" lifestyle is advertised every day. Just look at a billboard, pick up a magazine.. watch a TV ad.... it is all about attracting the opposite sex.

Because 90% of people are straight.

why should anyone have to advertise thier sexual choice, why is it anyone but thier business anyways?

That's what I said like 4 posts ago.

[BluesClues]

1st Corinthians- 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians live by the bible... And there it is- plain as day.

However, I do not judge. I have friends who are homosexual, all I can do is pray for them.

Yes all this is true. It does not matter to me what anyone's sexuality is. If that is what you choose to be, so be it. I do not judge them, but I have questioned what about people who (girls in general) experiment. They may not be gay, but just want to know what it is like to be with the same sex?

[Kelly]

I don't feel like it's right. However, i'm not the judge.

[BluesClues]

I don't feel like it's right. However, i'm not the judge.

I just wonder if it says anything in the bible about experimenting once or twice (I have not done it yet just a thought)

[Killer]

well that ^^^ that in the bible would still be a sin because it would be adultery... and it's still a homosexual act... like if two guys got together one night... u would still call them gay cause most people just see that as gay, but since guys like the thought of girl on girl action it's morally accepted.. but in my eyes it's wrong either way...

[Kelly]

It wouldn't specifically say anything about "experimenting". It does talk of sexual immoralitys and perversion which I personally think would fit into that category.

Hope that didn't offend anyone... Just my opinion.

[ISAtlanta300]

Because 90% of people are straight.

So what does that have to do with anything? Should we just advertise to whites because the majority in the US is white?




This isn't an "election". Just like some people feel that gays may be 'shoving' their lifestyles down their throats, gays may feel the same way, that all ads and communication are implying "boy and a girl", hence shoving "straightness" down their throats...

[BluesClues]

It wouldn't specifically say anything about "experimenting". It does talk of sexual immoralitys and perversion which I personally think would fit into that category.

Hope that didn't offend anyone... Just my opinion.

I am not offened. I get your point. I was just wondering. I am sure there are other people who wonder the same thing, but are too afraid to say anything.
I would rep you, but I can't rep again for 24 hours. Remind me another day I owe you one, actually a couple.

[Kelly]

Aw, thanks! I appreciate it!

[BluesClues]

No prob!

[rolling_trip]

So what does that have to do with anything? Should we just advertise to whites because the majority in the US is white?

First off that ananogly has nothing to do with the subject, its just a racial stab

This isn't an "election". Just like some people feel that gays may be 'shoving' their lifestyles down their throats, gays may feel the same way, that all ads and communication are implying "boy and a girl", hence shoving "straightness" down their throats...

gays make the decision, or whatever you want to call it, to be homosexual. I guess every hetrosexual should bend their way of life around to make them more comfortable. I have no ill will towards gays, i don't agree with it, because its their life. you may have not intended to come across as you did, if so i appoligize. But the statement above is BS.

[Jaimecbr900]

It is true I can condemn homosexual behaviour by use of Scripture. I cannot however condemn the person.

I think this point is illustrated in John 8:1-11

I will tell the story in my own words....

One day a group of concerned church leaders, do gooders, and people brought a woman to Jesus who had been caught in the act of adultery. This religious group asked Christ a question.
"Hey Jesus, adultery is a sin, the law says those caught in adultery should be stoned to death, what do you say?"
Jesus didnt answer them. Instead he stooped down and began writing on the ground.
They kept asking him so he stood up and replied "Whoever among you has no sin, let that person throw the first stone"

To their horror the religious leaders and bible thumpers realized Christ had written their sins on the ground. Even the secret sins they thought no one knew. In shame every do gooder left quickly one by one until only Jesus and the woman remained.

Jesus asked her "Where are those that accuse and condemn you? Who are they? Has no one thrown the first stone at you?"

The woman answered "No not one."

Jesus replied "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more, live a better life."

If the spotless, sinless Son of God didnt "throw stones" at a sinner how can we?
Do you feel superior to a homosexual because you have no homosexual feelings? Is adultery somehow a "better" sin then another?
Is one sin really worse then another? Other then blaspheming the Holy Spirit the Bible says all sins are the same.

My conclusion - If you say youre a Christian then do what Christ did. Shut up. Don't condemn. Encourage others to live a better life BY YOUR EXAMPLE.

BTW, this same principle should be followed by the "righteous" anti abortion activists as well. Those people make a mockery of Christainity by shouting at women that theyre going to hell and are baby killers, forcing their morals upon others and all the rest of it..etc etc...
NONE of that is in keeping with Biblical principles. NONE! No wonder athiests don't want any part of that "god".

That has to be one of the most well thought out responses I've ever seen in this entire website. Cudos for that. Excellent.

This is one on my long list of short comings. I have a difficult time with this subject. It seems I do end up sort of judging people that are homosexual, either in my mind or out loud sometimes. I'm very opinionated, so I find it difficult to ride the fence on any issue including this one.

I've been called a homophobe lots of times. Many times in this forum as a matter of fact. I have to admit that I don't help my self any when I go off on my rants. It sometimes literally makes me nauseauous (sp?) when I see two men showing homosexual attention towards each other. So I end up manifesting that uncomfortableness into a homophobic rant in rebellion.

After a post like the one above by metalman, I do believe that I have to work on changing my point of view on this subject. I still don't agree with it, but I think I need to be a lot more tolerant to others as human beings rather than force them to see the world thru my eyes. That post really made me think.

Thanks.

[Hulud]

First off that ananogly has nothing to do with the subject, its just a racial stab

actually that analogy was a perfect fit
so what your saying is that racial discrimination is different from sexual discrimination (towards gays)?

gays make the decision, or whatever you want to call it, to be homosexual. I guess every hetrosexual should bend their way of life around to make them more comfortable. I have no ill will towards gays, i don't agree with it, because its their life. you may have not intended to come across as you did, if so i appoligize. But the statement above is BS.

so your going to say that about 90 years of accepted science is wrong?
there have been numerous studies and findings that show its not a choice (almost always, cause there are those attention getters) that biology, enviroment both have a HUGE role in it

[Hulud]

That has to be one of the most well thought out responses I've ever seen in this entire website. Cudos for that. Excellent.

This is one on my long list of short comings. I have a difficult time with this subject. It seems I do end up sort of judging people that are homosexual, either in my mind or out loud sometimes. I'm very opinionated, so I find it difficult to ride the fence on any issue including this one.

I've been called a homophobe lots of times. Many times in this forum as a matter of fact. I have to admit that I don't help my self any when I go off on my rants. It sometimes literally makes me nauseauous (sp?) when I see two men showing homosexual attention towards each other. So I end up manifesting that uncomfortableness into a homophobic rant in rebellion.

After a post like the one above by metalman, I do believe that I have to work on changing my point of view on this subject. I still don't agree with it, but I think I need to be a lot more tolerant to others as human beings rather than force them to see the world thru my eyes. That post really made me think.

Thanks.

WOW, this metalman is amazing. i mean i rarely see someone admit they should change their views on a topic, especially one this touchy

[Jaimecbr900]

WOW, this metalman is amazing. i mean i rarely see someone admit they should change their views on a topic, especially one this touchy

Sometimes you have to admit you stumbled back to move forward.

I'm still an opinionated old fart, but after reading that it made very good sense to me. In a nutshell, he's basically saying "don't hate the playa, hate the game!....." And I agree with that.

I still don't agree with the lifestyle, but I shouldn't crucify the people themselves for my decision. I think I've been guilty of that before. That is what I'd like to be able to change. Not my opinion of it, but how I deal with the person. Everyone is entitled to dignity from other human beings. Being judgemental is not treating someone with dignity, because the only way you can truly be in any position to judge someone is if you're better than them. I certainly am not, so I need to remember that.

I'll have to work on that.

[metalman]

Thanks for the kind words Hulud and Jaimecbr900 but I must say the words are not mine. I only point out what I have read and what makes sense to me. Give the real credit to the Author of those principles.

[Dragonfly5338]

1st Corinthians- 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians live by the bible... And there it is- plain as day.

However, I do not judge. I have friends who are homosexual, all I can do is pray for them.

Gosh lookie there. Drunkards (I've seen all y'all drunk as piss many a times). Sexually immoral. (I'm assuming you've had sex before marriage, hmm?) I'd stop worrying about homosexuals if I were you, and start worrying about you and most of IA, LOL!

Who cares? If someone wants to take it in the butt, let them. It doesn't hurt you or affect your daily life in any way, shape, or form.

And if you're going to quote bible versus as the reason why something is wrong, you can't just put the part you want in bold print and hope everyone overlooks the rest..




And thank you, Jamie. You're the only one I know who seems to be able to hold a religious debate and still be respectful, tolerant and non-judgemental towards others beliefs, while still holding strong to your own. Props to you.

[fight club]

first off, metalman major kudos for an amazing responce.
as the friend of a homosexual, i cannot judge his lifestyle. we have discussed it many times as his situation is rather unique. he is a identical twin, whose twin is straight. so they provide a strong foundation to my belief it is not a choice, nor to do with the environment but something else. be it genes ,whatever. because of this, i cannot hate or be unnerved by it no more than i can if im around any other person differing from myself, as it wasnt a choice not to be like me in all ways.
as a christian, and i use that term lightly as i dont practice a standing religion, the bible tells me its wrong but also not to judge. but to demonstrate the right way, and on that i dont have to be told twice .

[Hulud]

Gosh lookie there. Drunkards (I've seen all y'all drunk as piss many a times). Sexually immoral. (I'm assuming you've had sex before marriage, hmm?) I'd stop worrying about homosexuals if I were you, and start worrying about you and most of IA, LOL!

Who cares? If someone wants to take it in the butt, let them. It doesn't hurt you or affect your daily life in any way, shape, or form.

And if you're going to quote bible versus as the reason why something is wrong, you can't just put the part you want in bold print and hope everyone overlooks the rest..




And thank you, Jamie. You're the only one I know who seems to be able to hold a religious debate and still be respectful, tolerant and non-judgemental towards others beliefs, while still holding strong to your own. Props to you.

val your the best, you ever run for president i will vote for you, btw you ready for chem lab tomorrow?

[Dragonfly5338]

val your the best, you ever run for president i will vote for you, btw you ready for chem lab tomorrow?

yes, hehe. vote for me.