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you should have gone into it with an open mind :2cents:Quote:
Originally Posted by {X}Echo419
only if you said i want to kill kittensQuote:
it'd be like if I started a thread titled, "20 reasons to shoot a kitten" then had a pic of a guy w/a gun pointed at a kitten and then gave a link to a website with 20 Reasons to shoot a kitten you wouldn't think I liked/wanted to shoot a kitten? :doh:
you're right it is just youQuote:
maybe it's just me
Not to pick on you, I agree with some of the sentimate expressed, BUT I am troubled by one thing. I understand I am going against common church teachings but when I study the Bible carefully I find no such eternal burning hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
Make no mistake, hell IS eternal, but just the effects/results.
Sodom and Gomorrah "suffered the vengance of eternal fire" according to Scripture yet there is no burning there this day, only utter desolation.
It is highly troubling to critics of Christianity that while God is supposed to be merciful and loving he is willing to torture people for eternity. I don't blame them for questioning this. That is why I bring this up.
A couple Bible verses on the subject...
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; (NOT eternal life in torment)but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
**this would be a lie if people were burning forever**
There are many more verses...I won't list them all.
Think about it, use logic even, does anyone in this popular church taught eternal hell die of cancer? Heart disease? Does anyone go blind? Does anyone die accidently? If not it must be safer then the good old USA because people die here by the tens of thousands. Eternal hell must not be such a bad place afterall, at least its safer then the United States, its just warmer.
The teaching of eternal life in hell is a continuation of the first lie recorded in Scripture, "ye shall not surely die"
Fact is the Bible says the wicked are "destroyed", "burned up", "consumed" etc etc....there is an utter end, utter destruction, just like Sodom and Gomorrah. Even in the destruction of evil there is mercy.
Again, I don't question your intent or sincerity.
Ok. First of all I wanna say thank you for not coming across in a judging way.
When you mentioned that "God is supposed to be merciful and loving he is willing to torture people for eternity"- as a Christian, I don't view it that way. He gives us our own free will. We have our entire lives, however long that may be, to choose His path. I also believe that if for some reason in you life span you never hear the teachings of Christ, God won't allow you to go to hell. You have to have heard about it, be at the age of understanding and deny or decide not to accept Him into your heart to go to hell in my opinion.
But here are a few verses to back up the hell that I believe in.
Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Luke 16-22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
Rev. 14-10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Rev. 21-8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Here's the main kicker...
Rev. 20- 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Just showing you "our" facts. And I see what you're saying about it being a "safer" (which is not the best word in my book) place then the U.S. because you never die. But it's a place that you'd rather die then live in that kind of torture/pain. It's not like everyday walking around chatting with people, or people developing cancer...
Once again, just my views as a christian.
And this verse is referring to those who chose to follow Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
A reference to heaven I believe.
To properly understand the Bible teaching on any doctrine one must accept the "sum total" of the entire Book on that particular subject.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
2 Pet 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
The key to undertanding Mark 9:43-8 is also found in Jer. 17....
Jer 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.
Careful study will indicate that in both in the case of Sodom and Jersalem the fire that cannot be quenched simply burns until its divine purpose has been accomplished and then it goes out. Man cannot extinguish or quench the fire of hell, but it does indeed go out when there is nothing left to burn.
As for the rich man and Lazarus, a careful study will show that is is contrary to this verse...Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
If the people in heaven can hear and speak to the people in hell there would most certainly be sorrow and pain, and the former things would not be passed away yet still remain.
So, what is this story about? Where did it come from? Turns out it was a common story of that era, a parable, not a literal story, which makes perfect sense in light of the rest of the Bible.
The Jews had a common story describing death as passing through a valley of darkness and they pictured salvation as fleeing to the security of Abraham's bosom. The Jews also believed that riches were a sign of God's favor and poverty a sign of His displeasure. Surely the poverty of Lazarus was an indication he had committed some grave sin, the Jews thought. But, the rich man in the story, whom the Jews thought blessed of God, ends up in Hell, while the poor man is in heaven. Jesus had reversed the outcome from what the Jews expected. This is why Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in the way he did. It was not intended to convey the exact circumstances of Heaven or Hell, but rather to show to the Jews that they had grave misconceptions about who was saved and who was lost.
These are the main points the parable teaches:
1. Riches gained by greed, dishonesty or oppressing the poor are not a sign of God's favor. Wealth is simply not an indicator of one's salvation.
2. The parable describes a great fixed gulf between the saved and the lost. Jesus clearly communicated that there is no second chance after death. The decision made in life determines our eternal destiny, and it simply cannot be changed after death.
3. Jesus points out that if the Pharisees rejected the clear teachings of God's word regarding salvation, they would also reject such a mighty, supernatural spectacular miracle as one being raised from the dead.
Note that a short while later in John 11:11-14,43,44 Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. As a result the Jews were threatened and attempted to kill Lazarus (John 12:10). They also became so angry with Jesus that they plotted to destroy Him as well. So the words of Jesus in Luke 16:31 were indeed prophetic and fulfilled.
It is indeed interesting to me that you bring up Rev. 20
That Scripture tells WHERE and WHEN & HOW hell takes place.
They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them
Where? The breadth of the earth, not some mysterious place
When? After the 1000 years, not now, not immediately at death
How? It devours the wicked just like the fires of Sodom and Jerusalem.
The Bible is clear throughout the entire Book, when God reveals himself to sinful unrepentant humans theyre consumed....
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
Isa 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
In order to have eternal life you must be saved. There is NO eternal life for the lost. Read Genisis...
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
The Immortality taken from mankind is restored to the righteous in the end, but NOT to the wicked. They are "consumed", "destroyed", "burned up", they "melt", they die the second death which is FINAL.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Keep studying...it took me while to learn these things, you will see the character of God in a new way. :)
that's one thing i don't agree with.... the age of understanding/ or accountaibility is no where in the Bible.... and i don't believe it says anything about.. "if you've never heard of christ your not going to hell"Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
that's my opinion though...
kelly where do u live... we should get together sometime and do some bible study or somethin!
A key to remember....
Satan, the serpent told Eve, "ye shall not surely die" (live forever)
God said "The soul that sinneth it shall die" (NOT live forever)
I don't know about you but I don't put much stock in what Satan says as being anywhere near the truth. ;)
^^^ do u really call living a life in hell life.... ??? i'm sure God doesn't either...
Hell is forever it says it many more times in the Bible besides what kelly posted...
but metalman i applaud u using verses from the bible to show us your points/thoughts... instead of googling random retarded things like some guy who's done a study on hell on the history channel! :goodjob:
All I know that I serve a mighty powerful God because like I have said time and time again, I have truely experienced Him. Not because mommy or daddy told me to... Not because I live in the "bible belt"... But because I have saw Him do great things in the lives of me and the people around me. I have witnessed someone being healed right before my very eyes.
So we can quote bible scriptures back and forth until our fingers fall off, but that isn't proving anything to you. Do you see what I mean?
You all get mad if we can't quote a scripture every single time we say something. But it's because we're speaking from our hearts. I'll tell you right now that I'm no bible scholar in any way. You may, in fact, have more scriptures memorized, but I feel like I have something deeper then a mind full of scriptures. I have a savior who is there with me, beside me, to guide me thru anything that comes my way...
I'm not bashing anyone, it just frustrates me to no limits when other people feel like they can bash us and bash us. But that's ok, it's gonna be worth it.
2 Corinthians- 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
The word "forever" is used numerous times in the Bible for things that have ceased or ended. I would be very cautious in hinging my beliefs upon that word. You may want to study that word further. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer
To be honest, to many churches, removing the teaching of eternal burning hell removes the method they use to motivate people, which is sad. These misguided people don't realize the true character of God and are unable to use His loving mercy to entice others but resort to a method of using fear of eternal torment instead.
It's ETERNAL DEATH... Hello...Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
That'd be fun. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer
I live in North Ga.
It SHOULD prove something to the believer if he/she is truly a believer because the believer is to be bound by that Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
As I said previously, most so called Christians are happy to continue in whatever belief they already have REGARDLESS of what the sum total of Scripture says.
Obviously youre correct in terms of non believers. Spiritual things are spirtually discerned. There is no discernment (light) in darkness. ;)
Indeed. It is DEATH (not life or alive) and it is eternal for sure. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
I agree with that..... too many churches preach hell.. when they should be preaching the love of Jesus...
No, you'll never understand it until you experience it.
As far as knowing my scriptures... I do.
And I'll never be content with my spiritual connection with God... There is always something more... I won't be "content" until I reach heaven and get to worship my savior throughout all eternity.
You obviously know scriptures as do I. The bible is a sacred book to teach us how to live a Christ-like life. Why use it to argue points to someone who is set in their ways anyway?...
Agreed. Although I do think it necessary for us to know the outcome of not living a Christ-like life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer
Thats just the point. The true Christian should never be "set in their ways", they should always be completely willing to accept whatever the Bible teaches as they advance in knowlege of that Word, regardless of what mommy and daddy told them, regardless of what the preacher man said, regardless of the popular opinion, regardless of their former ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
Unless one approches Bible study with humility, not caring what point is proven, but only interested in what the Word truly reveals, and what is true, they will always be stumbling and somewhat confused at least in part.
I realize that the view of hell I have presented will put me in a very small minority of people on the earth. I care not. The only question I care about is...what is true in light of Scripture. Its not MY truth afterall...it doesnt belong to me, my pride should have no place in it. ;)
I was referring to you being set in your ways... I'm not gonna change your mind. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by metalman
And every sunday morning, night and wednesday night I enter worship/ preaching with an open mind and heart so don't think I'm stubborn like that.
I'm truely honestly not.
Wrong. I am bound by the Scripture. If you can show me a rational explanation that is in harmony with ALL Scriptures on the subject of death and hell I am there. We are all subject to the Word. I am no exception. So far you have not, or even attempted to explain some of the plain english from the Bible I have quoted...which is okay, youre not obligated to prove anything to me. Thats my job to study for myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
You have simply stated what you believe and given a couple Scriptures for it.
Nothing wrong with that, its just not that compelling to me. I respect your right to ANY opinion you wish to hold. For me though the evidence has to be given from a sum total of all Scripture. The "contradictions" between Scriptures must be explained. I really care not whose view is proven. Do you?
I realize that most likely the view of eternal burning hell may be a favorite of your church. Youre not alone. Catholics love it. Baptists love it. In fact the majority of the so called Christian world endorses this teaching. Problem for me is that this teaching fails to explain the countless verses that indicate and clearly state otherwise.
It also serves as a motivation for many to reject a God that is only one small step away from tormenting one forever. I dont blame them.
I realize that most likely the view I have presented is probably completely foreign to you. Maybe youve never even heard it before. I also realize that it took me many hours of studying the words and teachings of the entire Bible, greek & hebrew, words like "forever", "soul" "spirit" "hell" etc etc to arrive at any conclusion.
I certainly DO NOT expect to convince you in a matter of a few minutes to see something that took me a long time. I only appeal to you to study further, dont rely on what your church teaches. Have an open mind. Be open to anything the Scripture teaches. If we BOTH do that we'll end up knowing what is true regarding hell and alot of other things as well. :)
True... (I'm penecostal by the way- and no, we don't handle snakes, lol)
I will say though, that somethings aren't as clear as we'd like them to be in the bible. For instance if Adam and Eve were the only couple in the world, did Eve have to reproduce with her offspring? The same with Noah's family...
Or the fact that the bible never mentions Dinosaurs, but we know they existed because we have bones to prove it.
But I'll study up some more and maybe ask my preacher tonight at church and get back to ya. Cool?
Plus one for no snakes. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
Pentecostals love the eternal hell doctrine even more then Baptists. :)
If I were you I'd study for myself. My .02 ;)
Indeed, the Bible can be confusing on some points. To me the answer is multiple..some things arent nessessary for us the created to know. Other things (answers) are in the Book just not discovered by us as individuals.
As to dinosaurs...to me the Bible infers something. God destroyed the world by flood (Noah) because man "worshiped the creature more then the Creator" and because man was evil continually. The Scripture states the God saved "that which he had made" or pairs and sevens etc of that life. That tells me he DIDNT save what he did not make.
Think about it...mans lifespan before the flood was nearly 1000 years. Humans then were much more "pefect" and closer to what Adam was then are we. They were much more perfect in their knowlege and wisdom. Their worship of the creature obviously included manipulating God's creation...making, breeding, cloning whatever..dinasours. When God destroyed
the earth he destroyed those works of men too. ;)
It says "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in day of the coming of the Son...." What are earthly scientists involved in today??? Hmmm cloning...genetic manipulation etc etc ;)
And contrary to popular opinion man and dinasour have been found in the same layer of earth. There are even tracks that appear to be of a large human leading a dinasour.
All very good points. Cept the thing "man and dinasour have been found in the same layer of earth". I'll have to read up on that too.
So what exactly do you believe? Do you believe the bible in it's entireity, parts of it, any of it at all?
Of course, study for yourself. Perhaps I should state it this way...evidences of man and dinasour have been found in the same layers of earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly
In order to accept any of the Bible one must accept all of it. People attempt to disect out the parts they dont want to comply with or can't understand.
They use lame excuses like "I am a new testament christian" or "I am under the new covenant" etc etc. Problem is the Bible clearly states that His principles do not change. 'I am the Lord thy God, I change not' is one very clear verse. That is why I say it is quite clear to me that in order to claim any teaching is true and in accordance with the Bible one must strive to find what is harmony with all of Scripture, not just a few select verses. There is NO adding to or subtracting from it.
See the princple outlined in Deut. 12:29-32
An illustration of that...Jesus, the author of new testament christianity summarized the ten commandments by saying "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart....thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"
The first four commandments are mans duty to God. Love for God.
The last six are mans duty to fellow man. Love for Man.
The commandments were written in stone by the finger of God, upon two tablets of stone. ;) Jesus simply reiterated the law in summary form. He didnt contradict it. He didnt change it. He didnt add to it. He didnt subtract from it.
He didnt do away with it. Which is all in keeping with the Bible description of the law being eternal.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
A warning to those who add or subtract from the Word and do so in Gods name....
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
etc etc....
man.. fuck christianity, really
^^^ Woah speedmonkey, where did you come from? If it bothers you- don't click on it. It's an easy concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedM0nkey
If that is all you have to contribute to these discussions you are better off not reading and posting altogether..... it's getting old, dude...
amen!Quote:
Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300
Seriously... Why even click on it if it's gonna make you that mad?
... it's not that he's that mad... he just wants to make us christians mad... little does he know he's just making himself look retarded..
Well i am 100% sure Jesus is comen soon i am seeing healings and people are getting saved there will be disbelivers but just know Jesus loves you and as in the days of noah (the rains about to fall and when it starts fallen its to late) i hope you all get right before that happens
God Bless
Amen^^^
Six Prophecies That Are Being Filled In THESE Last Days
1. FALSE PROPHETS AND CHRISTS
Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."
In the last several years many have claimed to be the Messiah. Jim Jones and David Koresh are examples of these false christs as well as countless others who are not as newsworthy. These false prophets are a prelude to the ultimate false christ, the antichrist. Many New Age groups, some even NGO's working for the United Nations, are anxiously awaiting the antichrist, preparing the way for his acceptance as the head of the hierarchy of gods and the one who will usher in world peace.
2. WARS
Matthew 24:6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."
Rumors of wars in all areas of the world now occur frequently thanks to instant media coverage and the availability of a multitude of 24-hour news sources.
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
More people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history. As the death toll rises in the Middle East, more and more countries work feverishly to develop devastating weapons of mass destruction. Add to that the expanding threat of terrorism and unpredictable dictators such as Saddam Hussein, and the potential for the outbreak of war exists in nations, kingdoms and places across the globe.
3. FAMINES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
As white, Christian farmers are driven out of Zimbabwe in increasing numbers, and foreigners move in to replace life-sustaining crops with poppies that now supply 25% of the worlds drugs, famine spreads across the African continent. The undernourished are not limited to Africa, however. A large portion of the worlds 5 billion people suffers from a shortage of food.
4. EARTHQUAKES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
The number and intensity of earthquakes this century is at a level higher than any other time in history. A staggering number of seismic events occur around the world daily. The earthquake seismic monitor IRIS shows all major earthquakes for the last year. Indicated by yellow and red circles, the seismic events of the last 15 days provides strong evidence of the fulfillment of Matthew 24:7 in our day. By contrast, in the years from 1890 to 1900 there was only one major earthquake in the world.
5. TRIBULATIONS
Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."
Christians are under attack throughout the world today. (CAN I GET AN AMEN!?!?) In the United States Christians still enjoy freedom to worship God without suffering much more than ridicule, hatred, or discrimination at work and school. However in many other countries such as China, Sudan, Africa, Saudi Arabia, Korea, Russia, and many Muslim nations, Christian suffer much greater persecution and often times death for their faith. During the tribulation this suffering will be worldwide and will continue even to the point of martyrdom. These first 5 signs will increase in intensity and severity as the tribulation approaches, much like the birth pangs or contractions of a pregnant woman worsen as the delivery time approaches.
6. THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."
This prophecy has already been fulfilled through television, radio, missionaries, the translation of the Bible into many languages, and the internet. People all over the world now hear the message of Christ from missionaries who have the means to travel the globe, and via technology that allows us to communicate with people on the other side of the world right from our own homes, churches and offices.
I copied/pasted my main point from this website, but here's some more "good reading"...
http://www.contenderministries.org/p...y/endtimes.php
take it like this.. im satan. here to fuck with you. i will click what i want and tell you that i dont beleive in your jesus bullshit one bit. your online religious talks is what is getting old. SHUT THE FUCK UP
I'll pray for ya ;)
[/pussy] get someQuote:
Originally Posted by SpeedM0nkey
20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity? Haha, I opened it up to start reading and after reading number 1 I closed it and literally started laughing out loud out how ignorant and uninformed it was. Christians are raised in fear? This guy can't be serious.
Ok, I just went through and read all of the headlines. Ummm how can I put this, the claims stated here seem to attack catholics. I honestly couldn't read a single headline and relate it to the Lutheran denomination. I think it's incredibly ignorant to say that all Christians hate homosexuals and science and crap like that. In fact, we recently had a discussion in my church about homosexuality and the fact is, the bible states every sin is equal, yes I know it also states homosexuals will never enter heaven, but we'll leave that up to interpretation.
And science, I could sit here right now and give a detailed summary of Darwin's Origin of Species, I'm halfway through reading it my third time. I could fully explain the big bang theory (not the little kid version) for you also. I am a science freak, as are most of my christian friends and all of my science professors are christian.
I really don't know how any of the authors points are valid, and I could sit here and go through and disprove them one-by-one but I'm not here to try and convert you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by {X}Echo419
fuck you and fuck christianity or any religion for that matter
that 20 list is just a one-sided arguement.
since when does christians only prey on the children? since when is it based on fear?
after jesus came and died for us, its been based on love ever since.
whoever wrote that 20 reasons crap should read the bible a little more carefully.