I am a Christian, i do not support Islam.
I am a Christian, i do support Islam.
I am a non-believer and do not support Islam.
I am a non-believer and support Islam.
I am a Muslim or am considering becoming one.
I am not sure how i feel about Islam.
I have a very negative opinion of Islam.
I have a very positive opinion of Islam.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Of course you aren't alone in your views. No one ever is, no matter what topic. There were tons of people that were still for slavery in 1861 - enough to have a civil war.
Every single one of those people protesting have the right to their opinions - that is one of the things that makes America such a great country.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I fail to see how my experience is different from yours. The individual who was a muslim for 30+ years i work with and speak to daily, ive also attended his church and have a lot of conversations regarding religion. I also referenced two brothers i am friends with who are active muslims. They themselves are not extreme, but their parents are. His father is very abusive and dominant. The females in his house are submissive. The two brothers are embarrassed by their actions, but dont speak out to keep the peace. No, i dont see the difference in my sample of life compared to your sample of life.
Then you also have no personal experience.
And you have no thoughts are how easy it is to connect these actions to scripture?
Islam is filth. How is this hate speech? Rape is filth, murder is filth... slavery is filth. This should not offend you unless you are a rapist, murder or slave owner. The crimes of Islam should not be ignored. Peaceful citizens who practice Islam are at least ignorant. There's some teachings from the bible that i follow, but i would never claim christianity as a whole because i cannot accept the crimes or lies of that religion. You cant cherry pick what you want from a religion without accepting the entirety of it. Islam is responsible for a lot of evil in this world. The casual observers of Islam condone these actions even if they dont participate in them.
It doesnt stand alone as an instruction guide. It is one of many instruction guides for evil.
Its way more than that...... this is another example of you minimizing it. Muslims allow child rape, child slavery, they cut the clitoris off young girls, they beat and abuse women sexually, disfigure them, oppress them............. women are pets according to Islam. They have the rights of a common dog.
Nothing i am saying is opinion. Every crime i accuse has multitudes of video evidence. The evidence against Islam is abundant. Watch any of the videos ive posted and then offer an explanation for those actions. I guess you're going to keep falling back on separating the extremist from what you view as "normal" muslims. The text itself is extreme.
"About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad's biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers."
Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy
Moorthy Muthuswamy was born and brought up in India where he was exposed to political Islam and jihad. His journey as a scientist began in 1979 when he enrolled in Birla Institute of Technology and Science, Pilani (India) to pursue a graduate degree in physics.
Even well before the massive flow of funds from the likes of Saudi Arabia, certain attributes of Islam, the author noticed growing up, was driving fellow Indian Muslims into backwardness and violent radicalism. Fiery and hateful political speeches, a main course of the Friday mosque sermons in India have had a history of instigating rioting by Muslim mobs, and consequently, led to countless property damages and the loss of lives.
He came to America in 1984 and went on to receive a doctorate in nuclear physics at Stony Brook University, New York. The author has published well over twenty peer-reviewed papers in nuclear and radiation physics and has held faculty positions in leading American academic institutions. In 1998, as the primary author, Dr. Muthuswamy was the first to show that radiation field aperture optimization technique can be an alternative to the then widely used and yet an inefficient technique known as beamlet-based optimization of radiotherapy beams. The technique proposed by the author has evolved to become a basis of modern implementation of Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy (IMRT).
Increasingly concerned about the escalating Islamic threat to his native India, in the 1990s, Dr. Muthuswamy started to research this topic. Since 1998, he has extensively published on various aspects of political Islam.
Early on, the author observed a startling phenomenon: in every Muslim-majority region of South Asia, since 1947, non-Muslim minority populations had been systematically decimated through deliberate processes, while in India, Muslims grew to become a significant minority. It didn't matter that the Muslims and the non-Muslims alike, shared culture, ethnicity, language, cuisine, and history, in these regions. This hitherto unknown data suggests that India faces an existential threat from political dynamics driven by Islam and that such a dynamics is a modern manifestation of what is commonly described in history texts as "Islamic Conquest."
In his book Defeating Political Islam, the author gives a fascinating narrative of the multi-faceted process now underway to conquer India itself for Islam.
Like most Americans the author too was taken aback by the audacity of the dastardly 9/11 attacks, although not surprised by the intent. These attacks and the subsequent American response made it clear to the author that his adopted country too needs to ramp-up its know-how of the new threat.
The intellectual challenge of solving what is clearly an existential problem, too, has continued to drive his research -- and led to this book. Specifically, the physicist-author designed this book in order to help set forth processes that comprehensively neutralize the radical Islamic threat.
The author resides in America.
Here you go blank...... scientist.... since i know how much you value their studies.
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 09-09-2013 at 12:25 AM.
Your opinion is based upon what others have told you, not on what you have experienced first-hand. I don't see why you cannot understand that very basic concept. By your own words, your opinion is based upon what the media presents you (which is guaranteed to be mostly bad news, as that is what sells), and what people who already are anti-Islam are telling you about it. You haven't gone to weddings, mosques (based on your previous statements - although you state above that he is an active Muslim and you have gone to his church - that conflicts with your earlier statements), been involved in their culture yourself. It's no different that if you live in the 1840's and the media told you that slavery was good, and that a slave told you that life wasn't that bad. If you never stayed in the slave houses, went out to the fields, etc, you would have no personal experience, and would probably think that slaves had a decent life.
In my case, I have been to weddings, I have been to cultural events, I have been involved in religious discussions, I have been and had dinner with Muslim families, I have celebrated holidays with them, etc. Daily submersion into their culture is personal experience.
Like I said, if you can't see the difference, then this topic is pretty much over.
I have plenty of thoughts.
Here is where you seem to lose it. You think that you can pop out a scripture, and then someone else should pop out a conflicting scripture. You seem to think that this is the same as a discussion about science, where there are competing facts that can be discussed.
Religion is not science. It is based upon faith, and thus, opinion. Thinking that the Qur'an will have conflicting verses already shows that you need to study it more before starting this thread, if you wish to have a worthwhile discussion. Perhaps an atheism thread would be more suited to your current knowledge?
I am not offended by your posts. I don't know how many times I have to type that so that it sinks into your head.
"The crimes of Islam should not be ignored." - So, now you believe that a book/religion is the source of crime, and not an individual. A person cannot choose what to do for themselves, and shouldn't be help personally accountable for their own actions? Yet, when a gun is involved, the crime was committed by the individual. This argument makes you seem like you are pulling a "John Kerry", which I do not think suits you.
"Peaceful citizens who practice Islam are at least ignorant." - So, now you think that all 2.6 million Muslims are stupid. Nice....
"Islam is responsible for a lot of evil in this world." - The people that commit the crimes are not responsible for their actions, it's the book! Now substitute the work "Handgun" for "Islam" and repeat your statement. Doesn't sound so good the second time around, does it?
"The casual observers of Islam condone these actions even if they dont participate in them." - So, you believe all Muslims condone rape, murder, and child abuse automatically? Are you saying that your two Muslim friends condone these crimes? If so, then by associating with them, you condone these crimes as well, do you not?
That is your opinion. Exactly what scripture are you thinking should be brought forward to "counter" this claim by you?
This is an example of why this thread is nothing more than a smear campaign against those that follow a religion that you do not like.
And, based upon your previous statements, you talk to people that condone this activity on a daily basis. Have you told them that this is how you feel?
We can discuss those surahs that relate to women if you like. If you can keep the discussion to the surahs, and not go off onto tangents, then you might be surprised at how the discourse would proceed.
So, the acts of a few radicals condemns all that follow a religion to being either idiots or criminals?
By that line of reasoning, then you, as an atheist, are either an idiot of criminal as well.
Alfred Kinsey, Napoleon Bonaparte, Than Shwe, Jeffrey Dahmer, Benito Mussolini, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin - all atheists.
Just taking one of them - Stalin ordered purges within the Soviet Union of any person deemed to be an enemy of the state (i.e. capitalists, theists). In total, estimates of the total number murdered under Stalin’s reign, range from 10 million to 60 million. His government promoted atheism with mass propaganda in school, and held a terror campaign against the religious. He crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938.
Of course, you wouldn't blame atheism for those deaths - you would blame the man who ordered the deaths.
Jeffrey Dahmer: "If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing…" [An interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, Nov. 29, 1994].
No, atheism did not make him do it, and the Qur'an doesn't make people kill either.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I've trumped your every argument and you continue to say the same things over and over about me personally.
I just posted part of a study done by a dr and scientist who lived under the oppression of Islam, who has more experience with it than 100 of you combined. Apply your argument of "you dont know any better" to that.
You entire argument has two parts to it. Deflecting the conversation away from Islam and/or discrediting me personally.
yes. The 2.6 million people who practice Islam are ignorant of all of the evil caused by their religion.
Atheist is a label others created. I prefer to just be called logical. It's not a religion. Nothing persuades me. There's no book. There's no prayer. There's no influence.
I'm going to separate this statement from the background of the author to focus on the important part.
The part that struck me as incorrect right off the bat was, "About seventy-five percent of Muhammad's biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers."
There are 164 verses in the Koran that deal specifically with jihad, not including those where Mohammed voiced his opinion of those that choose not to go on jihad, the rewards form heaven for jihadists (not sure if that is really a word), or where it is used as a generic word for "victory".
The statement claims that 75% of all verses in the Koran are about jihad, but there are more than 219 verses in the Koran.
Here are the 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008
Do you have a different list that shows 75% of the Koran?
BTW - Your doctor isn't the one that came up with the figures. He is just repeating the conclusions of Bill Warner - a well-known crusader against Islam (Citizen Warrior Heroes: Bill Warner).
I'm going to throw you a bone. If you really want to make a point about how Islam deals with no-believers, you need to look at the Qur'an in chronological order. That means that Surah Al-Taubah (Chapter 9) is the next-to-last revelation of Allah to Mohammed - hint, hint. Surah Al-Nasar is the last one, but it is mostly empty verses in regards to non-believers. The Qur'an is arranged from longest to shortest in chapters, not in chronological order, and it has a lot of repetition. Later revelations overwrite earlier ones.
Now, I'll throw out a verse for you to ponder, since you said that you have active Muslim friends, but that all of the Muslims are looking to deceive non-believers.
"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers." - Qur'an 5:51
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I just pointed out the facts about your post about the doctor of physics.
You posted one statement and then some background on him - all stuff that you copied from somewhere without looking into it deeper.
You haven't trumped anything. You are just being delusional if you think that.
You are pulling a blank - ignoring what you don't like.
I don't need to discredit you, you are doing that to yourself, unfortunately.
Let me be clear - I don't care if you hate Islam or not. That's your choice completely.
Last edited by David88vert; 09-09-2013 at 09:15 AM.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
So you think the Dr, Scientist and author of the book below, who lived under the oppression of Islam himself, is simply quoting someone else and not offering his own opinion. Now you're attempting to discredit someone else, who has infinitely more experience with Islam than you do.
No, that is not what I am saying.
I am saying that his figure of 2.6% that "bodes well for the non-believer" was not a calculation that he personally made. He based it upon the calculation of Bill Warner.
I am not saying that it is not his own opinion, as it very well could be that as well. I am not "discrediting him" either - I am simply clarifying fact.
BTW - another fact: The doctor moved to the US in 1984, in case you missed that. I hope that Islam wasn't oppressing him in the US.
His 2.6% came from "Political Islam" - Political Islam // Articles // The "Good" in the Koran
Here is more:
"Bill Warner wanted to know exactly how many verses in the Qur'an are positive for non-Muslims, so he counted them. The answer is 245. That's pretty good. That adds up to 4,018 words in the Qur'an, and comprises 2.6 percent of the total Qur'anic text. " - But There Are Peaceful Passages in the Quran Too - WikiIslam
Now, you were just saying that I was throwing rocks, but yet, you ignored my facts, and only attacked me with unfounded attacks - just like you did earlier in the thread.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers." - Qur'an 5:51
3:28
YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
Your verse warns of becoming friends with an unbeliever. This is the typical fence that religion puts around people. It cautions them that anything on the outside of what they believe, is evil. "guard yourselves from them". Remember, "Allah is the best of deceivers"
Lying and cheating in the Arab world is not really a moral matter but a method of safeguarding honor and status, avoiding shame, and at all times exploiting possibilities, for those with the wits for it, deftly and expeditiously to convert shame into honor on their own account and vice versa for their opponents. If honor so demands, lies and cheating may become absolute imperatives.” [David Pryce-Jones, “The Closed Circle” An interpretation of the Arabs, p4]
Like I stated previously, the earlier writings are overwritten by the later writing. The Qur'an is not in chronological order. The instructions give in Al-i-Imran (chapter 3) occurred long before Al-Maeda (chapter 5). Al-Maeda is one of the last books and in regarded as being on of the last sets of instructions revealed by Allah to Mohammed. I know that it is confusing, and I am not attacking you with this, just trying to give you the insight on how to discuss it.
I agree that some religious instructions attempt to "put fences around believers".
The statement that you bring up, "Allah is the best of deceivers" is actually a good one. Allah is the God of Abraham, which the Christians and Jews believe in as well, yet they do not believe that he can lie or deceive. In this case, Islam takes a very different view of God than the Christians or Jews do - and that is an excellent theological discussion to have.
As for you David Pryce-Jones quote, I have never lived in an Arab country, and do not know the customs practiced there. I know that I do not see that in the ones that I have met here, but then again, they have lived here for quite a while and have adapted to American customs.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Again, I am not "minimizing their opinions". This is something that you keep claiming with no basis.
I am disputing their math. "About seventy-five percent of Muhammad's biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers." That's the quote that you posted from that doctor.
There are 164 verses in the Koran that deal specifically with jihad, not including those where Mohammed voiced his opinion of those that choose not to go on jihad, the rewards form heaven for jihadists (not sure if that is really a word), or where it is used as a generic word for "victory".
The statement claims that 75% of all verses in the Koran are about jihad, which means that the math would show you that only 219 verses would exist in the entire Koran. There are chapters with more verses than that.
Here are the 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008
Do you have a different list of jihad verses that shows 75% of the Koran? That will be a very long list - since the Qur'an is about 6236 verses long, they are claiming that about 4677 are about jihad. Where are these extra 4500 verses about jihad?
If I am missing something, let me know. I just don't see those extra verses.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Since you wanted to make a case that Islam is violent, let's put it in perspective with some facts.
In the current Mexican drug war, more than 60,00 have been killed, with more than 5,000 more missing. Most of this has happened in Mexico, but CNN reported that there were several related killings in Alabama, Texas, and Georgia. Pretty close to home.
Meanwhile, the absolute highest number that I could find was 11,267 deaths at the hands of Muslims extremists - worldwide for 2012. This was from the Blaze, so I figure that you might accept that. Every other report quotes MUCH lower numbers.
Religion (Islamic or other) doesn't seem to tip the scales to one over the other. The desire for more money and power seem to have a lot of influence on people's actions though.
As for the number of terrorist that commit attacks being predominately Muslim, the FBI says "not so". You might need to look out for Jewish terrorists more than Muslims.
Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil | Washington's Blog
Now, to be perfectly clear, I am not stating that "Islam is a religion of peace". I don't want you to try to put words in my mouth.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The order of events as they happened in the Koran is not something i know, so information regarding how to read it is helpful. The wording of the accusation is
75% of Mohammad's biography, the Sira, was about Jihad. 61% of the Koran speaks ill of unbelievers.
They didnt say "75% of the Koran is about Jihad".
Here is a page that you will find quite useful:
Chronological Order of the Qur'an - WikiIslam
Like I mentioned previously, the last chapters written are the one that you want to target. Surah At-Taubah is the one that you will probably be most interested in, as it makes the best foundation for your case with 129 verses that have a lot to say about non-believers.
A biography about him is hardly the same as the Koran - that's what I was missing. That's something being written long after he is dead, and not relevant to the discussion topic of this thread then. I haven't read the Surrah, and only some of the Hadith.
The links to the verses that speak about jihad might be of interested to you though.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The drug war in Mexico is rogue individuals with a clear purpose and they are unanimously alienated from society. The wolf in sheep's clothing is a lot more dangerous than the wolf with larger fangs. The "sheep's clothing" is what makes Islam, in my opinion, the greatest evil facing mankind today. I am against all of them and anyone who commits terrorist acts, but my criteria for assessing threat is a little different. To me, influence is a lot more dangerous than bullets. A politician is more dangerous than a tank, bomb or gun. The statistics you posted do not serve as a comfort for me or disprove anything. There's cases of Islamic terrorist trying to poison our water supply. They claim that they start forest fires. Almost every incident of Islamic terrorism is nameless and faceless with no regard for the target. The goal always seems to be to harm as many people as possible with no concern over who the people are.
This is why its significant to me how negative the Koran is to nonbelievers, in the eyes of extremist, this book has managed to "militarize" everyone outside of the religion. The criteria for being an enemy of Islam is that you do not believe in Islam.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
That is very possible. I've already put forth my role in this conversation as the skeptic. I dont really refute the idea that a portion of muslims, possibly a majority of muslims, live peacefully and intend me no harm. My disdain is for the religion itself, not the people, who in my opinion, have fell victim to it.
Every religion has good aspects to it. I bet a large portion of people would find the satanic commandments agreeable if they were not introduced as the satanic commandments. Every religion is designed to "suck you in". It is within the realm of possibility that some muslims only see the good in Islam and use that good to live good and peaceful lives, the same as i do with religions. My issue with them is why they support a religion that is responsible for a large number of crimes against humanity. You can say that the people you know who are muslims, are not extremist terrorists, but you cant say that the extremist terrorists are not muslims. Some of the crimes of Islam are indefensible. My grievance with peaceful muslims is that even though they may not be participating in those acts, they add numbers to the presence and spread of Islam.
The world i want to live in is on where people decide not to rape, murder, steal or harm others for no other reason than that they realize its wrong. It's scary to me how many people need religion as a crutch to be peaceful and even more alarming how many use religion as a justification to be extreme.
I'm going to read more before posting another scripture. Feel free to post scriptures of your own.
Also, let me try to put this in perspective.
I do not believe in God, any god, from any religion. I view all religions as man made with some designed purpose. Whatever that purpose may be, good or bad, i cant help but start my thought process with the idea that every religion is based on deception. So i have a natural skepticism for everything religious. I view any text of anyone claiming to be a higher power as a lie. Based on that simple truth that every religion starts with deception, my investigation of them is always skeptical.
I dwell more in the realistic function and purpose of religion rather than the spiritual one. When i read the Koran, i question why normal men create a higher power to build authority over a mass of people. Why cant these works just be guidance? why did they ever begin seeking ruling authority? So from that perspective, religion in general is inherently evil. I am not singling out Islam, Islam is just my highest concern regarding religions.
"My issue with them is why they support a religion that is responsible for a large number of crimes against humanity" - So, again, you believe that a book written 1500 years ago is responsible for these crimes, and not the individuals who chose to commit the crimes? Personal responsibility is thrown out the window as soon as you can blame religion? This is not consistent with your views on guns.
"My grievance with peaceful muslims is that even though they may not be participating in those acts, they add numbers to the presence and spread of Islam" - So, you have a problem with people that do not commit any crimes, live their lives in peace and for the betterment of society, just because they choose a religion that you do not like. Religious tolerance - something that this nation was founded upon, but you do not agree with.
"you cant say that the extremist terrorists are not muslims" - I completely disagree with that statement, as do the actual statistics that I posted a link to.
"The world i want to live in is on where people decide not to rape, murder, steal or harm others for no other reason than that they realize its wrong."
Ahhh, a "utopian dreamer". It's great in sci-fi, but will never work in reality. As long as you have humans, you will have all of the crimes above.
Consider the quote from Jeffrey Dahmer, the atheist/serial killer/cannibal - "If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing…" [An interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, Nov. 29, 1994].
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Your opinion - and as long as it works for you, then that's all that matters to you. Others will not have the same opinion, and what they believe works for them.
Here's a question for you though - what makes you think that atheism doesn't start with a deception as well? Perhaps you might consider yourself an agnostic, rather than an atheist.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
And what do we call this lack of religious tolerance?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
It is consistent with my beliefs on personal responsibility. If every gun i purchased came with a handbook instructing me to wage war on those who did not believe in what i did, then that would be a different story. What if i was a member of the KKK for no other reason than i liked being part of a club and enjoyed bon fires. I did not participate in any hateful action that the KKK endorsed. I am still a walking advertisement for a evil organization and i should take personal responsibility for that affiliation.
Yes, this country was founded upon religious tolerance and our good nature is being used against us. We are tolerant of a religion who is not tolerant of our freedom of religion or freedom in general. Islam teaches that treachery is permitted to be victorious over infidels. Nothing about Islam embraces western culture. Their collective goal in having a presence here is to spread their way of life, not embrace ours. This is the disadvantage that every good in the world faces, that the rules we live by are not followed by those who oppose us. It's a simple idea..... you've seen Batman right?
I dont see how my view is utopian. I dont believe people need religion to be good people. I am a walking example of that. If religion is what is holding society together, why doesnt religion govern us?
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 09-09-2013 at 01:45 PM.
So you also believe that Allah is a fictional character created by man for a designed purpose. Which would also mean that you believe the Koran is a lie, or deception, based on your choice of words?
I fail to see where we are in disagreement here. If you believe the stories are lies, like me, then join me in questioning their purpose. That's what you do in the christianity threads. I'm a bit taken back by your inconsistency.
Yes or no question, do you believe in Allah?
Your answer appears evasive. Just looking for clarification. Your emotional responses to this topic does not support the answers you are giving.
You clearly have some connection to Islam, i am trying to find out what it is so that i can put your answers in context. Unlike myself, who is open and honest about my views, whether they be right or wrong, you put a lot of effort into hiding your affiliations, which ironically is also related to the current topic of discussion.
Is it not hilarious how blank applied nearly my EXACT argument against Islam towards Christianity.... yet here he is condemning me for the same logic.
This is definitely one of your best responses.
So, basically, if you hang out with a Muslim, you are guilty by association then? Oops, you said that you have active Muslim friends. Have you told them that they are evil just for being Muslim yet? Have you told them that they are "walking advertisements for a evil organization"? How did they respond to that?
I grew up around some KKK members. They weren't really concerned about race, they talked a lot about the federal government taking over states' rights though, and argued for smaller federal government. I guess that kind of talk made them evil though, right? That's just a sidebar, don't worry about it.
So, you believe that religious tolerance is a bad thing now..... at least, that is what it sounds like you are communicating....
I find it interesting that you believe that this group of people keeps their "grand scheme to deceive" hidden for multiple generations, raising their children in western countries, and to live their entire lives within western cultures. I know quite a few Muslims that were born and raised in the US, and this "truth" that you seem to know has been completely hidden from them. Why would the Muslims hide this "truth" from their own children?
The ones that I have met surely seem to embrace the American way of life.
Have you heard of the "Ramadan Rush"? Tons of rich Arabs descend on London during the summer, racing their supercars around the streets, and living like westerners. They party in clubs, and basically break a lot of the rules. What does Islam have to gain by this behavior?
So, you believe that people don't need religion to be good, but Islam forces them to be bad? You are a good person without religion, but they are automatically bad because they have a religion?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen