Tithes, tides, giving?

[KNHTRDR]

What's the deal? I read in the bible that when you give to the church you give willingly from you heart. but the conversation I had with this guy @ work says it dosent matter if you dont give your 10% tithe you won't get the blessing. So my thing is if you don't have 10% to give and you give from your heart why give if it dosent count for anything? This all started from him saying that if you only brought home $1000 and you rent was the same you still have to give your 10% he says that's not God's problem. I thought it was kinda crazy. can somebody make a lil bit of sense out of the please.

[BTEC]

to summarize what the bible says is. pay ur tithes and trust God to do the rest. if u dnt have faith in God supplying ur needs u better pay ur rent.

[KNHTRDR]

Ok, So is that 10% gross or take home?

[BTEC]

gross

[KNHTRDR]

So don't worry about paying you debts just as long as your giving your 10% It's all good right?

[BTEC]

if u have faith that God will supply ur needs then yeah but if u have any doubt whatsoever, then u might wanna try again when u really trust in God.

[5thgcelica]

if u have faith that God will supply ur needs then yeah but if u have any doubt whatsoever, then u might wanna try again when u really trust in God.

[quickdodge®]

if u dnt have faith in God supplying ur needs u better pay ur rent.

That's why I pay rent. Faith isn't gonna keep me and my family warm in the winter. Paying my bills will. Later, QD.

[BTEC]

That's why I pay rent. Faith isn't gonna keep me and my family warm in the winter. Paying my bills will. Later, QD.

exactly.

[4dmin]

That's why I pay rent. Faith isn't gonna keep me and my family warm in the winter. Paying my bills will. Later, QD.

exactly tithing is a joke... it is designed for the church to make money and further its greed. w/o it you wouldn't see these multi-million dollar facilities being built for churches. alot of churches actually have cards that break down what and how much you should pay... i had a card from one that had break downs from 10-25% of annual income how much you should be paying the church. its basically a nice way for you to buy your way into heaven

[Malana]

I believe we should tithe and that it is necessary. I disagree that you have to do 10% of your gross income. There are more ways to tithe than to give money. You can be his hands and feet. You can give your time and your labor.

It is problematic to me to hear people who are posting on a forum populated by folks who are involved in an expensive hobby say "I'm going to pay my rent first." Pay your rent first that's fine. Even spend a couple hundred a month on your hobby. God wants you to be happy, to follow your bliss.

But, what have you done this week for him? Go to the car show nine weeks out of ten but on that tenth weekend volunteer somewhere. Pick up a hammer and help habitat for humanity build a house. Cook a meal for a soup kitchen. Do something. That's tithing.

[KNHTRDR]

I believe we should tithe and that it is necessary. I disagree that you have to do 10% of your gross income. There are more ways to tithe than to give money. You can be his hands and feet. You can give your time and your labor.

It is problematic to me to hear people who are posting on a forum populated by folks who are involved in an expensive hobby say "I'm going to pay my rent first." Pay your rent first that's fine. Even spend a couple hundred a month on your hobby. God wants you to be happy, to follow your bliss.

But, what have you done this week for him? Go to the car show nine weeks out of ten but on that tenth weekend volunteer somewhere. Pick up a hammer and help habitat for humanity build a house. Cook a meal for a soup kitchen. Do something. That's tithing.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking about but. My co-worker says otherwize. I feel it dosen't matter how you give as long as you are doing it in some way as you stated.

[quickdodge®]

You can give your time and your labor.

I do that every goddamn day of the week. I give my time and my labor to Budweiser so that I can support my family the best I can. Wouldn't "God" be happy that I am taking care of my family?

It is problematic to me to hear people who are posting on a forum populated by folks who are involved in an expensive hobby say "I'm going to pay my rent first." Pay your rent first that's fine. Even spend a couple hundred a month on your hobby. God wants you to be happy, to follow your bliss.

Don't let it be "problematic" to you. It isn't any of your concern, is it?

But, what have you done this week for him?

What has "He" done for me? Tell me what you can prove. Don't give me that "he lets you wake up every day" shit, either. Maybe He did, maybe He didn't. No one will ever know. Later, QD.

[00CIVICSI]

"Tell me what you can prove"


Thats where faith steps in. Faith is everywhere, like in your ghost stuff. Have you actually seen face-to-face a ghost/spirit?

[buddha@TeamFX]

I believe that you should give 10% but if you can't then give what your able to and God will bless you for it...He understands that some people can't literrally afford too...And its not always about money its about helping your fellow neighbor or in your community to make it a better and safer place for you and your family to live...Paying tithes can be in helping your local church cut the grass, help clean, a number of things it is all about putting forth the effort...

[00CIVICSI]

I mean come on, you get it back 100% on your tax's!

[quickdodge®]

"Tell me what you can prove"


Thats where faith steps in. Faith is everywhere, like in your ghost stuff. Have you actually seen face-to-face a ghost/spirit?

Me? No. My wife? Yes. In our own house. I also have examples on video and audio. I have no such video or audio of God. Later, QD.

[metalman]

First of all telling someone else to tithe is in poor judgment. Tithing is a form of personal stewardship between the individual and God. It was not invented by man or churches BUT is used/mis-used by both regularly.

The subject is addressed in the Bible. Simply stated, tithing was ordained by God as a method of supporting the gospel and as a faith excercise. Those who have great faith in God give generously and are generously rewarded. Those of little faith who give but little are rewarded little. Those who give nothing "rob God" according to scripture.

That being said, no one should judge anothers stewardship.

[KNHTRDR]

^Yep.

[00CIVICSI]

"used/mis-used by both regularly"

Almost all church are require to keep records and turn any spending into there state office! In my church every penny is accounted for, Every. Any member can at anytime can ask for those records. Its not like you pay to got to church. They dont blow or mis use it. It goes to charity as well as local situation, like injurys or accidents/illness/ needy folks etc. Like when my wife dislocaled her knee, i dont have ins. so the church agreed together to pay a $2300 bill. Same when my boy got into a motorcycle wreck. Its dumb how people get these image's of preacher rollin in money. Most pastor's have 2 jobs! Unless its a big big church!

[metalman]

"used/mis-used by both regularly"

Almost all church are require to keep records and turn any spending into there state office! In my church every penny is accounted for, Every. Any member can at anytime can ask for those records. Its not like you pay to got to church. They dont blow or mis use it. It goes to charity as well as local situation, like injurys or accidents/illness/ needy folks etc. Like when my wife dislocaled her knee, i dont have ins. so the church agreed together to pay a $2300 bill. Same when my boy got into a motorcycle wreck. Its dumb how people get these image's of preacher rollin in money. Most pastor's have 2 jobs! Unless its a big big church!

What I meant by "mis used" is primarily that they misuse the concept in the way they present it from a Bible standpoint. But make no mistake, many churches mis use the funds too. Your concept of their accountability is not correct in general although perhaps your church MAY be above board. And if they used any tithe funds to pay your bills they DID mis use it unless you are their pastor.

[00CIVICSI]

They dont pay my pays! They just help folks in need. I didnt ask they just did it!

[AtifSajid]

There are some good points in this thread. Muslims have to pay it also..aka zakat. We have to pay a certain amount yearly also, but again its all depends on if you can afford to pay it. Our churches are not flourshing left and right. We dont get the option of government help if we need to construct a Mosque. The entire community pays for the Mosque to get built, and its there duty to keep it up and running. So we all try our best to give Zakat and keep the mosques running. Also or preachers/Imams dont get paid get lump sums of money, and they usually dont have anything to do with the mosque. They preach there and take care of community problems. They may make 35K max per year if that. Those are the lucky ones actually. The crazy thing about it is that many of them have PHD and so forth and are working for nothing in the name of God/Allah.

and again, you have to make sure that you yourself have a roof over your head and food on the table for your family..then you give your respects to your church/mosque..etc.

[Malana]

Wouldn't "God" be happy that I am taking care of my family?

Yes.

Don't let it be "problematic" to you. It isn't any of your concern, is it?

While this is an inventive debate strategy, it is hardly sporting. It comes across like this…

A: I think the sky is red because the sky is the same color as my car and my car is red.

B: I find it problematic that you believe your car to be red. If your car is the same color as the sky, it is probably blue.

A: Don’t let it be “problematic” to you. The color of my car isn’t any of your concern, is it?

My answer can only be “Well… I guess not.” You gave paying the rent first as a negative argument for not tithing in an open forum designed for debate. If you didn’t want anyone to comment or concern themselves then you shouldn’t have put it forth as an argument.

However, I will withdraw my earlier comment in favor of this…

I would find it problematic if a regular churchgoer who was involved in an expensive hobby was using “I’m going to pay my rent first” as an excuse not to tithe. You should pay your rent first. You should spend money on your hobbies whether they are expensive or cheap because he wants us to enjoy this life he has given us.

I do believe that God would rather see you feed your family than enrich the coffers of a yuppie church. However, I’ve seen many of the yuppies who populate those churches say, “Oh… I have to pay my rent or mortgage first… I can’t tithe.” Then they talk about the weekend they spent in Tahoe skiing. I have a problem with that but I would never say anything to anyone about it. Metalman is right… how much you give is between you and God. No one should tell anyone else how much to tithe.

What has "He" done for me? Tell me what you can prove. Don't give me that "he lets you wake up every day" shit, either. Maybe He did, maybe He didn't. No one will ever know. Later, QD.

If you don't believe in him, you don't need to tithe. I have a friend who calls himself an "apathetic agnostic." He says he doesn't care enough to be doubt the existence of God. You seem to be a passionate and concerned agnostic. You are really ticked off that you are skeptical about his existence. That's an okay way to be but I think you need to recognize that no one has forced this on you. This is your choice. There is no reason to be angry.

In Germany, in the ultimate antithesis of no one telling you how much to give, the money to run churches is collected by the state as taxes and then distributed evenly among the denominations based on what the people paying the church taxes report their denomination to be.

You can opt out of paying for religion if you are an atheist or agnostic but you are then barred from ever going to church. You cannot attend a church wedding or funeral. You have declared you don't believe in that stuff and that you will not be using the services of the church. In order to re-up with God, you'd have to pay your back church taxes.

[quickdodge®]

You gave paying the rent first as a negative argument for not tithing in an open forum designed for debate. If you didn’t want anyone to comment or concern themselves then you shouldn’t have put it forth as an argument.

I think you are missing something. I never said anything about not making a comment.

However, I’ve seen many of the yuppies who populate those churches say, “Oh… I have to pay my rent or mortgage first… I can’t tithe.” Then they talk about the weekend they spent in Tahoe skiing.

I don't do that. As I have no need to discuss my financial situation with you, I sure don't spend weekends out.

You are really ticked off that you are skeptical about his existence. That's an okay way to be but I think you need to recognize that no one has forced this on you. This is your choice. There is no reason to be angry.

You blew me away with that shit. With your "college" posting, I can guess that you went to school for psychiatry? If not, how do you come up with the "you are really ticked off..." comment. I'm not "ticked off" at all. I'm not angry, either. Where do you get your "assumptions?"

In Germany, in the ultimate antithesis of no one telling you how much to give, the money to run churches is collected by the state as taxes and then distributed evenly among the denominations based on what the people paying the church taxes report their denomination to be.

You can opt out of paying for religion if you are an atheist or agnostic but you are then barred from ever going to church. You cannot attend a church wedding or funeral. You have declared you don't believe in that stuff and that you will not be using the services of the church. In order to re-up with God, you'd have to pay your back church taxes.

We're not in Germany and no one brought up that country. You really, as in much of your posts, made no sense. Later, QD.

[Malana]

My apologies for giving offense. I will try not to be so offensive and nonsensical in the future.

[quickdodge®]

Giving offense? First off, you made an assumption about me...and without even knowing me or anything about me. Second. You made a totally wrong assumption from nothing. You also failed to give me what you think are your reasons for your assumptions. Later, QD.

[Julio]

I would always love to smack the priest boy when hes walking around collecting money...

Just like if we were in HS.

[ISAtlanta300]

Giving offense? First off, you made an assumption about me...and without even knowing me or anything about me. Second. You made a totally wrong assumption from nothing. You also failed to give me what you think are your reasons for your assumptions. Later, QD.

Damn QD, LOL


btw.. assumptions are usually made by what you portray yourself to be. If a car flys by you fast, you would normally "assume" that it is a fast car, even if it was a honda just topping off at 100 MPH.....

[Malana]

Giving offense? First off, you made an assumption about me...and without even knowing me or anything about me. Second. You made a totally wrong assumption from nothing. You also failed to give me what you think are your reasons for your assumptions. Later, QD.

Correct.



I made an assumption about you based on the available data, namely, your posts to this forum. I did this because I felt you invited me to.



You wrote "What has 'He' done for me? Tell me what you can prove. Don't give me that 'he lets you wake up every day' shit, either. Maybe He did, maybe He didn't. No one will ever know"



To me this asks a question for which there is no way to offer an answer without making an assumption. You seem to make it clear that you will not accept any answer. The use of the word "shit" implies vehemence and bitterness. It sounds angry or "ticked off" if you will. The sentences “I do that every goddamn day of the week.” in the post before and referring to God in quotes as if you consider him to be an imaginary character also come accross as expressions of anger, bitterness, vehemence and skepticism. From this I read you as a very angry agnostic.

Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding and any hurt feelings my assumptions may have caused.

[quickdodge®]

Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding and any hurt feelings my assumptions may have caused.

Hurt my feelings? Lolol. Sorry. I doubt you can. This is the Internet. I find it funny that you think you are qualified to tell me how I am. And not how I seem to be. But I am still curious on something. You sau the word "shit" makes you think of anger. Let's check out this sentence:

I have to take a shit.

Plain, straight to the point sentence. Now. From that, keep in mind I said shit, am I angry because I have to take a shit? Should I have said:

I have to make a bowel movement.

or

There is feces that I must extract from my body.

Would that have given you different feeling towards my inner psyche? Later, QD.

[Malana]

Let's check out this sentence:

I have to take a shit.

Plain, straight to the point sentence. Now. From that, keep in mind I said shit, am I angry because I have to take a shit? Should I have said: <snip>

Would that have given you different feeling towards my inner psyche? Later, QD.

You should say, whatever you want to say.

"I have to take a shit." is crude. When a person is crude, I perceive them as angry, disturbed or just not particuarly nice.

Researchers who study the evolution of language and the psychology of swearing say that cursing is a universal human occupation. Every living and dead language and dialect ever studied which was spoken by whole continents or only an isolated village has profanity. It is also universal that human beings use profanity as a way of venting aggression and stress.

If you are venting agression and stress, it follows that you had some anger and stress pent up inside that needed to come out. Petitio Quaesiti, why are you so ticked off?

[quickdodge®]

So you're whole basis on "assuming" how a person is is by the words they choose to speak. Hmmm, again, wrong. I could assume a few different things about the type of vocabulary you use on here. But I'm not going to. I don't know you and, quite frankly, I don't understand at all what you are about. And just because of that, I won't make assumptions. Later, QD.

[00CIVICSI]

I would always love to smack the priest boy when hes walking around collecting money...

Just like if we were in HS.

WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING ABOUT TITHES?

[Malana]

So you're whole basis on "assuming" how a person is is by the words they choose to speak. Hmmm, again, wrong.

How so? In this venue, the words you chose are all I have to go on to create a mental picture of who you are. It is a characteristic of this medium. Your signature, what threads you chose to respond to and the way you respond give information also. They personify QuickDodge. Whether QuickDodge is the real YOU... I don't know or care. I have no contact with the real person only this persona you have created in this forum.

I could assume a few different things about the type of vocabulary you use on here. But I'm not going to. I don't know you and, quite frankly, I don't understand at all what you are about. And just because of that, I won't make assumptions. Later, QD.

How odd. Is my vocabulary improper? Do you consider not making assumptions about it a kindness? Whatever assumptions you make about me will not affect me in anyway. It doesn't change who I am. My self worth is not derived from what other people think or say about me and... I'm not particularly angry about my lot life. Not today at least...

[ISAtlanta300]

Hurt my feelings? Lolol. Sorry. I doubt you can. This is the Internet. I find it funny that you think you are qualified to tell me how I am. And not how I seem to be. But I am still curious on something. You sau the word "shit" makes you think of anger. Let's check out this sentence:

I have to take a shit.

Plain, straight to the point sentence. Now. From that, keep in mind I said shit, am I angry because I have to take a shit? Should I have said:

I have to make a bowel movement.

or

There is feces that I must extract from my body.

Would that have given you different feeling towards my inner psyche? Later, QD.

Hmmm I would use "I need to go to the bathroom" or "I need to use the restroom"


Does that mean that when you are sitting in a nice restaurant, you really tell the waiter "I need to take a shit !!" LOL LOL

[quickdodge®]

Hmmm I would use "I need to go to the bathroom" or "I need to use the restroom"


Does that mean that when you are sitting in a nice restaurant, you really tell the waiter "I need to take a shit !!" LOL LOL

Now here's someone down to Earth that is easier and more fun to chat with. I agree with your top line, dude. My question with that example, was just to find out how:

"I need to shit."

would make me an angry person. I'd like to see the waitor's reaction to that. Lolol. Later, QD.