An interesting article I read....

[geoff]

Are you sure about this? From what It says in the bible, questioning God is a damnable offense.

I can see why you believe this, understand it was a different time when God Himself was with the Israelites. They heard from Him and experienced Him personally. They then questioned God. It is encouraged in the New Testament to search and find God. " Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1john4:1

[95420A]

Another reason I believe atheism is a religion is because of the fact that some of the folks are constantly trying to force there religious view down my throat. Bout as damn bad as Jehovah's witnesses really. And you are no better than any of nuts from any other religion. It's the "My way is correct and you are all wrong" attitude. Explain what makes you different if you must and I'm sure you will and it will be the same tired arguments. Please pick a new topic because religious discussions are pointless really for both sides. When you from someone they are wrong they automatically go on the defensive and they close themselves off to any new ideas which has been illustrated here.

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[thesammy]

So do even the people who say there is no God agree the bible is largely a historical document? There really is no question when most of those books were written, and by whom.

There have been accounts of "Jesus Christ" in other historical documents. There is evidence found of many of the locations/things spoken about in the bible, even such an odd occurrence as the walls of Jericho, which were found to have fallen outward, like the bible describes, when the walls usually only fell inward due to attack from other nations. There are prophecies in the old testament written by many men, over hundreds of years, who had never seen or heard of one another, and yet one man fulfilled them all?

Whether the things these men wrote were true or not, it's a fact they know when they were written, and who it was written by. That alone is enough to get me thinking.

Someone made a comment to Geoff saying something to the effect of 'sounds like you would have to have had a relationship with God.'
I'm pretty sure Geoff does. It's a whole different world as a follower of Christ, having the holy spirit in you. Christianity isn't a religion, It's a relationship with what we consider our creator. Church isn't a building (as mentioned earlier), it's uniting with our brothers and sisters in fellowship.

The so called facts that science shows for there being no God, can show just as much that there is a God. There is a large movement of scientist that has been moving toward what they are now calling "Intelligent Design" because many scientists cannot find enough proof for their evolutionist theory, and are seeing more and more reason to think we have a creator.

There has never been anything made that did not have a purpose, and we are part of that. Just think about it; The coaster you put your cup on to keep from water stains, the felt that sits under your chair to avoid scratches, the twist ties you use to keep your bread closed. Those things didn't pop out of no where, and they don't just sit around waiting for us to find a use for them. They were created for a specific reason.

To think your life is over after 70 or 80 years and to live it pleasing yourself entirely is a waste imo, not to say I don't enjoy things and that I never do anything God doesn't approve, but if we still have an eternity ahead of ourselves, there's a lot more to this short life then partying.

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Another reason I believe atheism is a religion is because of the fact that some of the folks are constantly trying to force there religious view down my throat. Bout as damn bad as Jehovah's witnesses really. And you are no better than any of nuts from any other religion. It's the "My way is correct and you are all wrong" attitude. Explain what makes you different if you must and I'm sure you will and it will be the same tired arguments. Please pick a new topic because religious discussions are pointless really for both sides. When you from someone they are wrong they automatically go on the defensive and they close themselves off to any new ideas which has been illustrated here.

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Atheists shove their religious views down your throat? Im pretty sure that's never happened since non-religious people don't have religious views. Can you give an example of a religious view that was forced upon you? Was it in this thread? Did someone in this thread force you to click that button and enter?

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So do even the people who say there is no God agree the bible is largely a historical document?

Historical fictional document, yes. But it does give some insight to the time period it was written

The so called facts that science slhows for there being no God, can show just as much that there is a God. There is a large movement of scientist that has been moving toward what they are now calling "Intelligent Design" because many scientists cannot find enough proof for their evolutionist theory, and are seeing more and more reason to think we have a creator.

There are zero facts that show there is a god. Any scientist that replaces their lack of findings on evolution with intelligent design isn't a credible scientist. Creation and Abiogenesis are entirely separate scientific concepts from evolution. On top of that, there is already proof of evolution and is already generally accepted in the scientific community.

There has never been anything made that did not have a purpose, and we are part of that. Just think about it; The coaster you put your cup on to keep from water stains, the felt that sits under your chair to avoid scratches, the twist ties you use to keep your bread closed. Those things didn't pop out of no where, and they don't just sit around waiting for us to find a use for them. They were created for a specific reason.

All of those things were created by man

[thesammy]

So like I mentioned before, there are "credible" sources on both sides of the spectrum. There is only so much we can learn in our lifetime, we have to base some opinion on what others have learned and there is still many opposing views.

To deny the bible has historical fact within it, as secular history will also agree, shows you're being hard headed.

My .02. Probably won't be back in this thread. Lol

[Vteckidd]

You can't reason with unreasonable people. We have no way of knowing if the Bible is fiction or not, but he doesn't acknowledge that, he assumes its fiction to use that as a basis for telling you you're wrong.

Its really not worth arguing with him

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I'm being unreasonable? Didn't half of you guys say even if you saw evidence that counters your belief you wouldn't even consider it because it goes against your beliefs? Have you looked up the definition of reasonable lately? Lol

You can't reason with unreasonable people.

This is very true.

[Vteckidd]

none of us said that, well i didnt. The only evidence you would have to offer me to prove god didnt exist was to die, film youself not going to an afterlife. since we know that cant happen, i remain open to the possibility that there is a higher power.

YOu cant offer any credible evidence at all. YOU may think it is credible, but its not. Nothing you say will change my mind. Science cannot prove there isnt a god. It cant explain how we got here, it cant explain earth, it cant explain dinosaurs, or evolution, all kinds of things that leave some of us to wonder "hmmm maybe there is some higher being or creator".

My point is believe whatever you want, but dont try to insinuate we are as stupid as the people in the article you posted because you have an obsession with telling people they are wrong because we dont agree with you.

no one is forcing beliefs on anyone, except you.

*UNSUBSCRIBES

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not when the science is based on flaws, no i wouldnt. IMO

So if it is based on what you "believe" is "scientific flaws", even if it's not actually scientific flaws, you wouldn't accept scientific facts.

[bu villain]

As an atheist, I am saying "I don't know if there is a God". That is quite different than saying "There is no God." However, Geoff is saying "There is a God". If he said "I don't know but I prefer to believe there is a God" then I doubt there would be so much controversy in here.

Part of the problem is that when atheists say "There is no God", they really mean "Although it is possible that God exists, there is not currently convincing evidence of God". To atheists, it is no different than saying "There is no a Yeti in Tibet who can play the piano". It is possible that such a Yeti exists but since there is no evidence, most people take the stance that they will believe it when they see it. Unfortunately it is much shorter to simply say "There is no God" and that causes a lot of misunderstanding.

[geoff]

So if it is based on what you "believe" is "scientific flaws", even if it's not actually scientific flaws, you wouldn't accept scientific facts.

Here is the problem with science for those who believe in God. Science is forever changing. I understand that as new information/discoveries are made that science has to go back and alter their theories and ideals. I understand that the human race is ever advancing and as more technology becomes advanced that we will learn new things. My problem is not with science. Science does give a few examples of facts that we can not logically dispute...ie gravity exists. The problem is when a theory or idea which actually is not fact, is sold off as thus. Science as of today, can not rationally explain the origin of life with hard, solid, proof. Yet, they say it is "pretty much" factual. Why? Is it because it is there job to explain the origin based on science? After all, they are paid to do research in their own fields. If I was a car salesman for toyota, i would not talk the people in my dealership to go buy a chevrolet. I would say and do and provide "evidence" of why my car was better than theirs. Do you see the point I am making here?

In this thread you tried to portray those that believe in God as the Koreans that think sleeping with a fan on all night will kill you. You tried to link a ridiculous superstition of the korean people to that of those with faith. Seriously man, you claim to be an "atheist" that does not care/believe in any higher power, that you could not care less for the beliefs of Christians. Yet here you are trying to put down a belief system that since the beggining of time has existed. You are no scientist, evolutionary biologist, astrologist, genetics expert, abiogenisis expert, ect....You are a normal man who has read some articles, watched some videos, and fed off the negativity of others. Honestly, it much be very depressing to be an atheist...you have no hope, no future, no promise of anything and you spend your time trying to deceive others into giving up their rights to believe what they want based on "scientific facts" that actually have no solid foundation.

Truly spoken words my friend, " A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything."

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In this thread you tried to portray those that believe in God as the Koreans that think sleeping with a fan on all night will kill you. You tried to link a ridiculous superstition of the korean people to that of those with faith. Seriously man, you claim to be an "atheist" that does not care/believe in any higher power, that you could not care less for the beliefs of Christians. Yet here you are trying to put down a belief system that since the beggining of time has existed.

The point of the article was to point out that a belief system, even if understood by an entire nation to be true, does not automatically qualify it as true

You are no scientist, evolutionary biologist, astrologist, genetics expert, abiogenisis expert, ect....You are a normal man who has read some articles, watched some videos, and fed off the negativity of others.

You must have read my Facebook page. You seem to know a lot about me. Lol

Honestly, it much be very depressing to be an atheist...you have no hope, no future, no promise of anything and you spend your time trying to deceive others into giving up their rights to believe what they want based on "scientific facts" that actually have no solid foundation.

Almost as depressing as believing in a fictional entity who is jealous and evil, who will damn you to hell if you don't believe in him and passes out cookies to make you think he's a good guy, and an ideology that has caused more misery and death to mankind than any other idea, ever. All the while based on zero evidence or facts, scientific or otherwise.

Truly spoken words my friend, " A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything."

That is definitely the truth

[geoff]

I could continue this back and forth with you forever man lol. Neither one of us is going to throw up a white flag. So I shake your hand, and we part ways as gentlemen....until the next topic is posted lol