Quote Originally Posted by geoff View Post
well i have to step in again, the bible can be validated because its claims have come to pass. Look even at the prophecies of the Messiah, they were written thousands of years before Jesus yet He fulfilled each and every one of them. And before you say that you cant prove Jesus was real based only on writings of the time or documents; prove to me then that Ghengis Khan was real, prove to me that Julius Caesar was real or even George Washington. You readily believe these men were real because there is historical writings of them and paintings even. Guess what, the same goes for Jesus Christ, yet when it comes to Him we dismiss the evidence but easily accept that of other historical figures. I say a closed heart becuase the bible says thats what it is. We have come to an age that the bible calls the end times, " 1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was." 2 timothy 3:1-9. The world will soon change, even those without faith can sense it, that something big is getting ready to happen. The bible tells of this too. Soon the whole world shall see the false christ rise up and those who had hard hearts and chose to dismiss Jesus will worship him until the Lord comes down from heaven and all shall see Him and all shall bow down and confess that He is Lord. Go ahead, tell me that using scriptures doesnt count or matter, i say the same for those that quote studies or writings of atheistic scholars. My faith is built and based on the bible. I see all this discussion going back and forth and many of you arguing against faith yet not one person has accepted my challenge. Come to my church, listen to a bible believing, doctrine preaching man of God, feel the Holy Spirit move and pull at your heart, listen as the Lord speaks to your heart and then tell me you don't believe in God. I have witnessed many non believers break at an alter when God moved.
I wouldnt argue that jesus wasn't real. I would however argue that jesus did not turn water into wine, or walk on water, or any of that.

And honestly man, I've been taught Christianity from day one from many different people with different perspectives, and it has only made me less of a believer. I tend to think logically based on proven evidence, rather than believe everything that is fed to me through preaching and the bible. No offense, but I just dont believe in a church that preaches. To me, churches ought to be nothing more than tight communities of people who have a relationship with god. this is important since every believers relationship with god is different, and should never be led in any other direction than that. Churches dont need preachers. Plain and simple.