On the contrary, it is fact.Originally Posted by Malana
Only the exact numbers are not known.
PC "Revisionist" history books that change facts or ignore them have lead to many people being ignorant of the facts of the middle ages.
The roman church has long flourished on ignorance...and still does.
Everyone is simply going back and forth on tangents now.
Some people confuse "Christians" with being "closed minded" rather than simply convinced. There is a difference when it comes to faith.
We've discussed this like 2 gazillion times. Go look up the word "FAITH" in the dictionary. By definition it is something that CAN NOT be tangibly proven all the time, hence it's called FAITH as in someone BELIEVES it rather than EATS it.
So it is immesurably EASY for someone to rebutt a FAITH debate with the good ole tried and true, "PROVE it to me.....
My buddy Atif I KNOW believes something that is slightly different than what I believe. Does that make him or I any LESS a "believer"? No. My friend Ren believes yet something else. Does that make HER any LESS a believer because I don't totally agree with her? No. So, just because someone doesn't share the same viewpoint or belief doesn't make THEM any less or more a "believer" or a "Christian/Jew/Muslim" because someone else "doesn't get it". Get it?.....Probably not.
People think that "Christians" are "closed minded" because we hold strong beliefs and stick to them. What about Muslims that share that trait? What about Jews? What about atheists? What about devil worshipers? Each in it's own right firmly believes SOMETHING, don't they? So should they be wishy washy about it or hold steadfast to that which they honestly and truly believe IS right? To me, it's pretty clear that if you had people sitting on the fence about ANY of their beliefs, as it pertains to religion, they truly aren't ANY religion for which the profess to be a part of then. Think about it. Religion is a very black and white thing if there ever was such a thing. So to be called "closed minded" is basically to be misunderstood IMO.
I can converse with anyone on just about any subject. Does that mean I'm going to agree with everyone, no. Does that mean that someone is going to be able to talk me into something that I truly don't believe in, no. Does that make me "closed minded", no. It makes me someone that has enough conviction to stick to what he believes regardless of what others may think about it.
Last edited by Jaimecbr900; 12-28-2005 at 03:23 PM.
Proof?
You have access to good libraries and many hours and a desire to spend reading? This subject cant be covered in one sentence.
Much historical info is there for anyone who wishes to know. Catholic libraries are also great sources of info.For an overview you can start with Foxes Book of Martyrs and once youve read that in its entirety I can give you a lengthy list of other books to read.
I know people are largely ignorant of history in general. I didnt realize the reformation/counter reformation era, and prior era leading up to it was an "unknown". Many schools in fact teach about this though I suspect most to be private schools as "PC" plagues our public school system.
open minded people respect other people's decisions......and opinions. If someone calls a christian close-minded, then that is their opinion. Open minded people understand that and don't get bent about other's opinions and beliefs. Think about that for a minute
cept the jahova's
I respect alot of peoples thoughts and decisions but I am not very open minded to anything. I have no problems with what anyone wants to belive or do until they try to push it on me or "sell" me on their beliefs. Everyone makes up their own minds and makes their own mistakes who cares if they are christian or not they are going to pay a price to someone or something, in every religion. I personally am a once a year christian you know go christmas eve sing some songs and go home feeling good for the next 365 days.
www.mountainboost.com
its gonna be funny when...EVERYONE goes to hell and satan say ...allright christians come with me ,your goin to the deepest part of hell...oh why you ask? oh cause the jews were right!
hahaha total mr. bean skit!!!!!
Val for President.
Close minded Non-believers !!
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
I'm open minded! I believe that everyone sucks equally and they deserve that rightClose minded Non-believers !!
PREACH IT ....wheres the pulpit...?
you know if you actually try to find god.... you will thats the way it works you make that choice that because he gave to you.... look it up... its there....i was the same way... and he did...
wow now thats fuckin funny as shit
you know the truth why? because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...
you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?
and by the way you've been thinking so highly of yourself i know that i am a better person than you could ever be.
Val for President
you could say that about atheists too.
how? whose sayin we know the truth and you dont? just because i dont believe in your god doesnt mean im sayin i knwo the truth
and if your talking about thinking so highly of myself i dont, and i dont judge people like 1zach4 is
*edit* and im not sayin that about all christians just that zach kid
Last edited by Hulud; 02-08-2006 at 01:55 PM.
Val for President
I wasn't accusing you of anything. it was just a generalization. why get so defensive...
im not getting defensive just asking questions
but how can u say that about athiests? i mean thats a generalization, as if i meant all christians
Last edited by Hulud; 02-08-2006 at 05:59 PM.
Val for President
I'm not anyone's "keeper" but I feel I should answer a couple of things.
It maybe because he believes it.
Name a single HISTORY book written while the HISTORY was still happening....because your parents told you or because you read it in a book written by three dozen authors? who wrote about jesus years after he lived...
So therefore the argument that since the Bible has many "authors" it's not valid or accurate doesn't make much sense, now does it? Since we all study HISTORY via data derived from all kinds of sources, places, and times in history itself. Many of the "authors" of books STILL in use today as totally accurate are long ago deceased. Does that make any of the info in the book all of a sudden false......NOPE.
Again, name a single book written by ANY devine being. Just one.you're gonna base your "truth" on humans?
There isn't a single one. Why? Because all religious books were written by followers and not the leaders. It is up to the reader to believe or not. That is part of the equation. The info is given to you and out of your own free will you CHOOSE to believe or dismiss it. That is part of the cycle of life. If you feel comfy NOT believing, go for it. Just don't do it because you feel "humans" are the ones delivering the message......READ the MESSAGE, forget about the delivery....READ the MESSAGE yourself. If it makes sense to you, believe. If it doesn't, move on and find something that does.
^^^ well said
so he believes in something doesnt mean that it is
but it does mean that things are going to be out of proportion, its like when you think back on things from the past they arent the same as what they truly are. they seem a certain way in your mind but are different in reality.
Name a single HISTORY book written while the HISTORY was still happening....
i never said it was all of a sudden false now did i?So therefore the argument that since the Bible has many "authors" it's not valid or accurate doesn't make much sense, now does it? Since we all study HISTORY via data derived from all kinds of sources, places, and times in history itself. Many of the "authors" of books STILL in use today as totally accurate are long ago deceased. Does that make any of the info in the book all of a sudden false......NOPE.
did i say there was one? i dont choose to not believe because of humans, i choose not to believe because i think there is no god, plain and simpleAgain, name a single book written by ANY devine being. Just one.
There isn't a single one. Why? Because all religious books were written by followers and not the leaders. It is up to the reader to believe or not. That is part of the equation. The info is given to you and out of your own free will you CHOOSE to believe or dismiss it. That is part of the cycle of life. If you feel comfy NOT believing, go for it. Just don't do it because you feel "humans" are the ones delivering the message......READ the MESSAGE, forget about the delivery....READ the MESSAGE yourself. If it makes sense to you, believe. If it doesn't, move on and find something that does.
Val for President
In his mind it is. Sometimes that's enough. For you it may or may not be, but for him it may very well be. In other words, that's HIS version of the truth. You can debate with him all you want but it just is.
but it does mean that things are going to be out of proportion, its like when you think back on things from the past they arent the same as what they truly are. they seem a certain way in your mind but are different in reality.
Sorry bud, but that's a lot of double talk. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that because something like the Bible was written way back when it somehow diminishes in value or content over time? Who's "reality" are we talking about here?
I'm sorry, but I didn't follow that at all.
Well you didn't spell it out, but you certainly implied it IMO.i never said it was all of a sudden false now did i?
Your previous post you made it seem as if you were knocking back on Mr. Echo because he "believed" in something although it was "based on humans" as you put it. What did you mean then?did i say there was one? i dont choose to not believe because of humans, i choose not to believe because i think there is no god, plain and simple
BTW, it's certainly your perrogative to not believe on whatever you feel like. It really is pretty simple if you wanna know the truth. If you lead a thirsty horse to water and he CHOOSES not to drink and die, that's on the horse not the handler. That's pretty much how religion IMO is. There are lots of "lakes" for you to drink from. If you CHOOSE to thirst to death, it's on you. Some of you guys (that don't believe in God period) I guess feel you can survive on your own w/o anything. That's fine, again your perrogative. There's really only ONE way to find out....YOU've placed your bet, as have I.
your right thats HIS version of the truth but it could also not be the truth is all im saying, as well with me i could not be right, but theres no way to prove that right now.
actually there is no double talk here you jsut missed what i meant. what im trying to say is that anything in the memory (thoughts from the past) become distorted in the mind. you know like when you think back on a slide when you were young and how big it was, and then you go see it now and it seems small? you see what i mean?Sorry bud, but that's a lot of double talk. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that because something like the Bible was written way back when it somehow diminishes in value or content over time? Who's "reality" are we talking about here?
I'm sorry, but I didn't follow that at all.
sorry you thought that but not what i meantWell you didn't spell it out, but you certainly implied it IMO.
which post, my last one was towards you and the one before that was in no way "knocking back" on him. This was the last thing i said towards him "im not getting defensive just asking questionsYour previous post you made it seem as if you were knocking back on Mr. Echo because he "believed" in something although it was "based on humans" as you put it. What did you mean then?
but how can u say that about athiests? i mean thats a generalization, as if i meant all christians". please show me the quote your reffering to because i would never intentionally "knock" on someone for their beliefs.
Val for President
Pretty much sums it up. Like a famous song lyrics..."there are two paths you can go by...." and theres only two, we are all either on one or the other.BTW, it's certainly your perrogative to not believe on whatever you feel like. It really is pretty simple if you wanna know the truth. If you lead a thirsty horse to water and he CHOOSES not to drink and die, that's on the horse not the handler. That's pretty much how religion IMO is. There are lots of "lakes" for you to drink from. If you CHOOSE to thirst to death, it's on you. Some of you guys (that don't believe in God period) I guess feel you can survive on your own w/o anything. That's fine, again your perrogative. There's really only ONE way to find out....YOU've placed your bet, as have I.
Another thing that should be troubling to some athiests is this...
Man # 1, he lives his entire life not only believing in God but living his beliefs, treating others as indicated in the Good Book. He lives a good long life, is loved by his family an piers because he is Christ-like and loving etc etc....he dies, and then "finds out" there is no God. Wheres the down side?? Fact is there is none. If he is right then having lived a "righteous" life seeking God, not only will he have gained the respect of his family and piers, he will be given eternal life.
Man # 2, he lives his entire life NOT believing in God , treating others as he feels, doing whatever he wishes, regardless of the Good Book, reasoning that is matters not....he dies, and then "finds out" he is wrong there IS a God and judgement. Uhhohhh. Unfortunately for him he is then condemned and loses out on everything and is cast into the lake of fire with the other doubters and scornful etc.
So as you say, it is kind of a "bets" type thing. If you gamble you'd be smart to keep the odds in your favor. The odds are that there is a God, a Creator, a judgement. But if one likes playing the long shot...its their choice, thing is they will most likely lose.
im just entering this thread and you quote tupac
if thats the most scholarly source you have your credentials
on this topic are really oblique
Right, but like I said earlier.....you've placed your bet on what YOU believe, so why can't he?
I understand what you're saying now.actually there is no double talk here you jsut missed what i meant. what im trying to say is that anything in the memory (thoughts from the past) become distorted in the mind. you know like when you think back on a slide when you were young and how big it was, and then you go see it now and it seems small? you see what i mean?
It still doesn't change the fact that there was a "slide" regardless of how tall or short it is now, does it? That's like puffing a resume doesn't change the raw qualifications of someone, unless they bold face lie. Right or wrong?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
(lol)
