This.Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
This.
seeing animals beeing driven to extinction doesnt bother me nearly as much as seeing genocide or people starving to death in Godless nations. i for one put a MUCH higher value on human life. maybe its just me and im crazy?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
lol most genocide happens in the name of god.
boy you really are ignorant.
Poaching.
I had to do it.
But I agree with your post.
Geoff, I'd love to see where, in the Bible you find that it says/interprets that animals have no soul, spirit, conscience or whatever. Whatever it is you're seeing, I'd like to see it. But dude, you're waaaay off base there.
And it has nothing to do with animal rights. The fuck is up with that? Later, QD.
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Wonder what God thinks of this. He is the "creator" of all that you see, right? And you're mocking that and saying that it's no big deal if animals are driven away because they have no soul? Isn't that a form of blasphemy? Later, QD.
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no its not blasphemy. God put a value on men higher thany any other creation apart from the angels.
my support that only humans have souls...in Genisis 1:20-25. " Then God said, let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens. so God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. and God saw that it was good. and God blesse them saying, be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seasm and let birds multiply on the earth. so the evening and the day were the fifth day. then God said, let the earth bring forth the living creature acording to tis kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind, and it was so. and God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. and God saw that it was good."-----creation of animals
Genisis 2:7 " and the Lord God formed man of dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life: and man became a living being."
no where in the bible does it state that God breathed the breath of life into any other creature. God formed man from the dust, He then breathed our life or our soul into us. He merely spoke the animals into existence and so they were.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
the book of Genisis also states that man has dominion over the earth and the creatures in it.
definition of dominion:1. the power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority.
2. rule; control; domination.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
God created the plants and animals to be nourishment for us
and as far as genocide goes. many have claimed it in the name of God....what point are you trying to make here?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
[QUOTE=geoff]no its not blasphemy. God put a value on men higher thany any other creation apart from the angels. [./quote]
Support that. Show me where you are interpreting that he put a higher value on man.
So you're 'OPINION" of what is printed there is what you say it is. That's just what you see. But didn't God create man in his own image? So He created the dude differently than He did other creatures. But I don't see anywhere in that passage where it could even be remotely interpreted that animals have no soul.
As with so many other excerpts from the Bible, it's just all based on interpretations and what you WANT to get out of what you read. The ONLY difference between man and animal is the genetic make up. Animals have hearts, lungs and other vital organs that man has. If an animal lives and breathes, I see no valid reason how it can be said it has no soul. You seem to be contradicting yourself without knowing it.
And thanks for the compliment on my car. Later, QD.
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That has nothing to do with whether or not an animal has a soul. Later, QD.
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Geoff, you have plenty of posts to be able to post in the FOR SALE section. If you're posting just to get your post count up. Later, QD.
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so geoff... did Homo Ergaster have a soul? What about Homo Erectus?
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul? (Y/N)
Soul here? (Y/N)
What about here?
Or here?
Just curious to your opinion.
I don't think any of those have a soul, what about you?
Last edited by zimabog; 08-09-2009 at 01:40 PM.
the bible doesnt specifically point out if animals have souls. BUT the account of creation in genisis does not say God gave them a soul. also, in the bible no where does it state that animals have an after life or that they will face judgement. no where does it talk about animals recieving eternal life or damnation so i conclude as do many others that they have no soul. and QD in all fairness you did say..."Geoff, I'd love to see where, in the Bible you find that it says/interprets that animals have no soul, spirit, conscience or whatever".
and to zimabog...the bible only speaks about God breathing a soul or life into men. i personally dont believe relatives(primates) have souls because the bible doesnt say they will be judged and they cant worship. as far as other forms of life, the cat, cells, ect...i dont believe they have souls either. God gave us a soul and along with it the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. an animal or cells or bacteria or plants cant do that. they learn right and wrong cuz you beat an animal or yell at it for doing wrong and praise it for doing right. a dog does not feel remorse for biting someone or for stealing another dogs bone. a tree doesnt feel remorse for dropping leaves on your lawn and making you spend a full day to clean it up.
p.s. zimabog i loled about the carrot top thing. and yes he does have a soul too
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
But it also doesn't say they DON'T have souls either? So because it doesn't say so in the Bible, that means it isn't to be? So in order for anything to be so and just, it is required that it be in the Bible?
"In all fairness?" Huh? You didn't show me anything. What do you mean by this comment? Later, QD.
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oh so when we go to heaven, there are no cats, dogs, or turtles for us to keep as pets. If heaven was perfect I would at least love to have the beautiful aquarium I have been dreaming about.
Also I dont think I could exist eternally with out raspberries.
Last edited by TheProfiteer; 08-10-2009 at 06:31 AM.
for your first comment...I personally believe that the Bible is the absolute truth. God didnt reveal all things to us. animals could have souls, i dont know. but from what the bible says or doesnt say i interpreted it as they dont have souls cuz if they did the bible would have mentioned it.
for your second comment you asked me to show you in the bible where it says/INTERPRETS that animals dont have souls. i believe that if they did than animals would have been mentioned in heaven, said that God breathed life into them, or they would have the ability to choose between right and wrong
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
the profiteer...
definition of CSONSCIENCE:1. the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience.
2. the complex of ethical and moral principles that controls or inhibits the actions or thoughts of an individual.
3. an inhibiting sense of what is prudent: I'd eat another piece of pie but my conscience would bother me.
heaven is a perfect place but minute things like rasberries and pets or aquariums will not matter when you are in the presence of Almighty God and your creator
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Isn't that exactly what your parents do when you are very young?
edit:
Last edited by TheProfiteer; 08-10-2009 at 06:34 AM.
That is the best thing I have read from you in any talks I've had with you. The fact that you said you didn't know was perfect. You don't know. Just like I don't know if they do. Just because the Book didn't mention it, doesn't mean it isn't so.
Here's another way to look at the Bible: What if everything that is ever to know about the religious past was NOT included in the book. What if there were significant instances that were left out? Does that mean it never happened? Does that mean it isn't just?
Believe me when I say this, but I'm NOT trying to argue what you believe to make you not believe or to lose your faith, but just letting you know what I see/think. Later, QD.
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my dumb ass needs to learn how to spell.
Last edited by TheProfiteer; 08-10-2009 at 06:34 AM.
once agian QD respect. here is a website i found that goes deeper into the question if animals have souls. http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/448
for the profiteer what exactly are you missing bro? i gave you the definition of what a conscience is. its the little thing inside you that tells you whats right and whats wrong. you know not to go rape a woman and steal her purse cuz its wrong.
yes zimabog your parents teach you whats right and whats wrong...but they dont teach you everything. you have a conscience that lets you know that something just doesnt feel right. animals do not have that. neither do they have the ability to choose between whats right and wrong. if it were up to them the dog would steal a bone cuz he wants it. he doesnt do it cuz he gets beat or yelled at. otherwise he would do it.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
This thread is fucking hilarious
and believe me, if there is one person here who absolutely does not give a fuck about what you think or believe, its QD.
I start LOLing whenever someone states "the bible tells us"
WTF??? Why are people so ignorant?
The bible tells us that the earth is flat and has 4 corners!!!!!
Well fuck, it must be so!
im curious as the where the bible says that d993s. and your statement " i start LOLing whenever someone states the bible tells us" what else do we have to go on?
unless you do a study yourself or are by some means given a revolutionary revelation the only thing you can trust is studies and writings.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
And what about feral children? Human children raised by wild dogs show no human emotions or concepts and are integrated into the dog world. They would steal the bone too.
What about this?
Stray dog risks his life to save another stray dog friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgjyhKN_35g
Or this? The guy gets saved from the bull by a dog who he has never even seen before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA9pw53WaKQ
That doesn't make any sense. Later, QD.
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Why are you curious? when you find it, you'll still come up with an excuse on god's or jesus's behalf. It wouldn't work out for you any other way!
im just curious zimabog as to what those videos demonstrate? it still does not mean that animals can choose between right and wrong. it shows loyalty. thats it.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
d993s you have knowledge at all of what the bible says. im starting to wonder what if any knowledge you have at all. you seem to be simply relating other peoples beliefs and what they say. do you not have a mind of your own that you can comprehend things by yourself?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
WTF??? Are you fucking kidding me???
How about scientific evidence you ignorant fuck.
a conscience is a made up word used to describe the complexity of human consciousness.
There really is no voice in the back of your head telling you what is right and wrong.
Right and wrong are dictated by what you are taught as a child, and by what is generally accepted by the society you live in. Its subjective, so in light to what I was saying, different people have very different definitions of what is wrong and right.
(At first I thought you were horribly misspelling consciousness, but it seems the whole time you were trying to say conscience)
i have already provided you as others have with scientific evidence. you call me ignorant? ignorance is the lack of knowledge, learning, or information i am very informed of ALL the theories and evidences out there. i have used my own logic and comprehensive ability to take that evidence and come to my own conclusion.
you have no conclusion of your own but instead take your own logic out of it and go off of what a select few have come up with. so who is trully ignorant here?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
I read it twice, cover to cover.
And I realized at an early age that my questions either had no answers, or "were not supposed to be asked" (as I was told by some preachers, evangelists, etc). Now what does that tell someone who is trying to learn something about the particular subject? SIMPLE: BULLSHIT!
Well I wasnt addressing you, I was addressing Geo there.
I quoted you because you stated that you are not trying to disprove his beliefs.
REALLY????
Where is it? Lets see it!!!
All you provided was evidence of WRITINGS.
right and wrong are taught to a certian degree. your parents dont teach you everything about it because they are limited to their own experiences.
take this example of a conscience in us: people who die for their beliefs, did their parents tell them thats what is right? or did they make that judgement on their own?
or this example: you have a loved one in the hospital who is on life support. the doctors tell you there is no way they will come back, it is then up to you to decide whether or not to pull the plug. what is right and what is wrong in this situation? can you be taught what to do when you face this? NO...the simple answer is that we each have our own ideas of what is right and wrong. your conscience is much deeper than just dont do this or that. its not all black and white
also my last point on this. you say that right and wrong are taught and that its affected by the social view. who then decided what was right and wrong in the begining? did the first men and women have a meeting to decide this or is it something deeply embedded in each and every one of us?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
So if I wrote on here that: "
I HAVE A 14 FOOT PENIS AND I CAN FUCK 2 GIRLS AT THE SAME TIME BY SHISH-KEBABING THEM" then it becomes scientific evidence???
I'm right there with you. I used to be seen as a complete non-believer because I had questions and I was always told by these people you were not supposed to question God or his actions. But how else do you learn? Especially with a non-visual, non-contact subject.
But I don't listen to that answer anymore.
Profiteer, I see now. Later, QD.
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