Quote Originally Posted by geoff
i as a religious person dont feel like im limited by it to learn and see the world for what it really is. Mankind is evil and so is the world, just look around you and turn on the news you can see this to be true without dispute.
Our society is full of evil, but life is not. When I look up at the morning sky and see birds and the sun rising - I don't look at it as religous people would -- it, being something created by God, but see it for what it really is.

Complete beauty.

A combination of random birds on their way to a new location in hopes to find some food, mate, or whatever, and the morning sky's clouds mixed with our sun's rays that make up the orange glow to our sky. The cool morning breeze. The world is not evil. We are. Fuck the news and all the bullshit that's going around our society. Who gives a shit about our existence?! Really.


Quote Originally Posted by geoff
my definition of God is this. Jesus ( God ) created everything we see and dont see. He gave all things a purpose, He instilled in us a need to learn and to know and His original purpose was for us to seek Him and love Him because He loved us first. He sustains everything every day so the world continues to function as it does. He is a very present being in our lives, He loves us and gave us a chance to have everlasting peace with Him by sacrificing Himself for us even when we were not worthy. if you will...imagine this scenario with me....one day while you are driving you dont pay attention and you get caught doing 140mph in a school zone. you go to court and the judge tells you that your fine is $10,000. you begin to tell the judge that there is no way for you to come up with the money so he decides to put you in prison. then out of nowhere a man comes in and talks to the judge on your behalf and pays the fine for you. you dont know him or why he did it but your very touched and greatful. This is what Jesus Christ did for you, me, all of us 2000 years ago. He paid the debt for us when no one else could just because He loved us. that is what God is to me. He listens to my prayers and provides all things for me and i love Him with all my heart. I fail Him everyday but HE still loves me.
Funny.

My mother uses very simlier metaphors. Being the realistic person that I am know that there are many reasons as to why someone would bail someone out of a $10,000 fine. Do I feel like listing them all?

Not really - because well, it wouldn't change a thing. It would add to our discussion, but nothing relevant to the subject.

But I really liked your story. Especially the part where some random person 'accidentally' got his/her car up to 160 miles per hour in a school zone and still managed to get caught without having to slam on their brakes in order to avoid going straight through stores and on-coming traffic. I mean 160 is crazy! I've done 150 in my WRX and lemme tell you - if I went 160 in a school zone I'd be F-U-C-K-E-D! Nice story though.

It concludes everything!

We can stop developing medicine to treat drug resistant bacteria and viruses now, right?


Quote Originally Posted by geoff
i lost my great grandmother on monday. we had the wake yesterday and buried her today. she went 2 hours without oxygen, a pulse, or a heartbeat. they were able to revive her and keep her alive through vast ammounts of medicine. long enough for all of us to say our goodbyes. the doctors told us that she was competely brain dead and couldnt feel or hear anything. in fact her body was so completely shut down and running on machines that she hadnt produced any fluids. anyway, at 10pm on monday night all her children,grand children, and great grand children were gathered around and said our goodbyes. suddenly a tear ran down her face and as my grandmother, her only daughter, wiped it away...her heart stopped and she passed. i believe she had heard us and God shut down her body so she would not feel the pain but she could hear all of our words. she was a devout christian woman for the past 40+ years and i know without a shadow of a doubt that she will one day be with the Lord when He returns. it was a miracle the doctors where able to revive her after two hours of being dead, its a miracle that with her body shut down and her brain completely dead that at the end she shed a tear for us. God is real and always present. i hope all of you hear with doubts and disbeliefs will one day come to know the love of God and have HIM and not men build your faith. God bless
I have a few theories as to what could have caused your great grandmother to live even after being pronounced dead for two hours, but that's something I'd rather not touch. I can tell that you're very emotional right now -- so give this thread a break and go clear your mind for a couple days.

I'd like to continue this once you start using logic instead of responding with your emotions.

And may your great grandmother RIP.