In God We Trust

**Hulud** · 07-19-2009, 07:12 PM

Someone please explain this to me. (ie. how it is allowed on gov't buildings and our money)

**Ocelot** · 07-19-2009, 10:44 PM

because America was populated for the purpose of religious freedom, thats how it was then, and good luck convincing anyone in the government that what they are doing is stupid/mundane/outdated. they will only counter with "thats how it was when i was in your position, its tradition."

**The Ninja** · 07-19-2009, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

because America was populated for the purpose of religious freedom, thats how it was then, and good luck convincing anyone in the government that what they are doing is stupid/mundane/outdated. they will only counter with "thats how it was when i was in your position, its tradition."

Just another way of saying: "I know its stupid, but we're not going to change."

**_Christian_** · 07-19-2009, 11:15 PM

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

**zimabog** · 07-19-2009, 11:16 PM

do what i do, use a sharpie to mark it out

**onebadgt** · 07-20-2009, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by _Christian_

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, that should be under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

fixed for ya

**geoff** · 07-20-2009, 08:42 AM

amen onebadgt..... honestly is there anything wrong with having one nation under God? if you dont believe then just do what you do best and ignore it

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

because America was populated for the purpose of religious freedom, thats how it was then, and good luck convincing anyone in the government that what they are doing is stupid/mundane/outdated. they will only counter with "thats how it was when i was in your position, its tradition."

well its not tradition. it was officially named the US motto after congress passed it in 1956.

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by geoff

amen onebadgt..... honestly is there anything wrong with having one nation under God? if you dont believe then just do what you do best and ignore it

do you agree with having our bill of rights?

**onebadgt** · 07-20-2009, 09:53 AM

i myself believe and noone will chang my mind, but i will not bash others that dont so i do not appreciate being bashed for my beliefs. the way i look at it

lets say you searve god and in the end there isnt a god, what did it hurt. you prob lived a better life for you and the others around you

but what if you dont serve and find out there is a god. then your up a hott creek without a paddle lol

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by onebadgt

i myself believe and noone will chang my mind, but i will not bash others that dont so i do not appreciate being bashed for my beliefs. the way i look at it

lets say you searve god and in the end there isnt a god, what did it hurt. you prob lived a better life for you and the others around you

but what if you dont serve and find out there is a god. then your up a hott creek without a paddle lol

wow i never thought of religion being used to scare people

come on man, if you're going to enter a discussion dont use scare tactics that dont work

**onebadgt** · 07-20-2009, 10:06 AM

how is that a scare tactic, dont be an immature prick. im just saying. there are people that believe and people that dont. if you believe and theres not a god it didnt hurt anything and if you dont believe and theres not a god, then your fine.

then if you believe and there is a god, great you will be blessed, and if you didnt believe and there is a god, then your screwed,

thats not a scare tactic what so ever. just the truth, that is the only 4 possible outcomes and 3 of the 4 are better than 1. thats why i am sticking with my better odds.

**Ocelot** · 07-20-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by onebadgt

i myself believe and noone will chang my mind, but i will not bash others that dont so i do not appreciate being bashed for my beliefs. the way i look at it

lets say you searve god and in the end there isnt a god, what did it hurt. you prob lived a better life for you and the others around you

but what if you dont serve and find out there is a god. then your up a hott creek without a paddle lol

come on now, pascals wager is the worst reasoning tool.

and it is tradition. who cares if it was named motto in 1956? it was printed on money and documents long before that.

whats the difference between 1956 and now?
answer: 1956 America still mostly believed in God, now America's "atheist" population is growing. people are not getting into religion like they used to. people are allowed to say b*tch and S*it on tv and the radio now...

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by onebadgt

how is that a scare tactic, dont be an immature prick. im just saying. there are people that believe and people that dont. if you believe and theres not a god it didnt hurt anything and if you dont believe and theres not a god, then your fine.

then if you believe and there is a god, great you will be blessed, and if you didnt believe and there is a god, then your screwed,

thats not a scare tactic what so ever. just the truth, that is the only 4 possible outcomes and 3 of the 4 are better than 1. thats why i am sticking with my better odds.

LOL how am i being an immature prick when you are the one using scare tactics? good one

saying and i will quote you

Originally Posted by onebadgt

what if you dont serve and find out there is a god. then your up a hott creek without a paddle

giving an ultimatum makes many people attend church in fear of the afterlife and not actually being true to themselves. if you truely want to make a valid point then do so. but saying stuff like that just makes you look immature and unable to have an adult discussion.

**onebadgt** · 07-20-2009, 10:22 AM

sorry for adding the comedy

i should have said if you do not serve and there is a god then you will be burning in hell for eternity. its not being used as a scare tactic at all, just saying it is a valid chance. if that were to happen i would rather be in the right standings with god. i am not here to argue the facts with you. i believe, you dont, my choice is mine your choice is yours. gl and prayers b with you!

**Ocelot** · 07-20-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by onebadgt

how is that a scare tactic, dont be an immature prick. im just saying. there are people that believe and people that dont. if you believe and theres not a god it didnt hurt anything and if you dont believe and theres not a god, then your fine.

then if you believe and there is a god, great you will be blessed, and if you didnt believe and there is a god, then your screwed,

thats not a scare tactic what so ever. just the truth, that is the only 4 possible outcomes and 3 of the 4 are better than 1. thats why i am sticking with my better odds.

lets remake pascals wager so it doesnt really "aid" the faithful with overwhelming odds that its better to worship God: or else you could be screwed!

if you do not believe, and there is no God, you are fine.
if you do believe and there is no God, you are fine.
if you do not believe and there is a God, you are screwed.
if you do believe and there is a God you are blessed.
if you do believe and you worshiped the wrong God, you are screwed.
if you do believe and there are multiple Gods, you could be screwed.

1/6 chance you are blessed for believing.
1/6 chance you are screwed for not believing.
1/6 chance you are fine for believing, and no God.
1/6 chance you are fine for not believing and no God.
1/3 chance you are screwed for believing.

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by onebadgt

sorry for adding the comedy

this isnt the WL. this is for serious discussions

Originally Posted by onebadgt

i should have said if you do not serve and there is a god then you will be burning in hell for eternity. its not being used as a scare tactic at all, just saying it is a valid chance. if that were to happen i would rather be in the right standings with god. i am not here to argue the facts with you. i believe, you dont, my choice is mine your choice is yours. gl and prayers b with you!

so you know me now? interesting...

just because i dont agree with christianity or organized religion that means theres nothing else? lmao ok

**Ocelot** · 07-20-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by onebadgt

i should have said if you do not serve and there is a god then you will be burning in hell for eternity. its not being used as a scare tactic at all

I LOL'd

anything with a negative ultimatum is a scare tactic.

if you don't worship you could burn in hell.
"shit, better go praise God, I don't want to risk burning"

you still wouldn't make it to heaven if it exists because that is a selfish reason to worship, to save your own ass. I'm pretty sure the Bible teaches against selfishness.

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

lets remake pascals wager so it doesnt really "aid" the faithful with overwhelming odds that its better to worship God: or else you could be screwed!

if you do not believe, and there is no God, you are fine.
if you do believe and there is no God, you are fine.
if you do not believe and there is a God, you are screwed.
if you do believe and there is a God you are blessed.
if you do believe and you worshiped the wrong God, you are screwed.
if you do believe and there are multiple Gods, you could be screwed.

1/6 chance you are blessed for believing.
1/6 chance you are screwed for not believing.
1/6 chance you are fine for believing, and no God.
1/6 chance you are fine for not believing and no God.
1/3 chance you are screwed for believing.

although you are poking fun at paschals wager i think you have some validity to what you are saying

**Ocelot** · 07-20-2009, 10:32 AM

yeah pretty much if you open it up to not be biased towards God, its really better to just do your own thing.

**geoff** · 07-20-2009, 12:14 PM

i have seen this arguement over and over again. what onebadgt was saying is true. if christians are right then those who dont suffer a consequence. thats plain fact. either their is a God or there isnt. God real+believe=heaven, God real+no believe=hell,God not real+believe there is God= nothing, God not real+no believe=nothing. thats elementary for all you that like to make this complicated. for all those that dont believe and bash christianity and Jesus and try and prove us wrong...what is it for? did you suffer some kind of thing that made you so vindictive? did you listen to something a preacher said and you didnt like it cuz you heard you have to answer for your wrong doings? it sounds to me like alot of you had a bad experience with some false christians/church.

and as far as the bill of rights...you can keep saying you have rights all you want. its not true...the government is in control, you are of no importance and are expendable. let me see your bill of rights stand when they label you a "terrorist"

As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord. and He will be the solid ground i stand on

**zimabog** · 07-20-2009, 01:49 PM

what if a person believes in a god that plays tricks on people? how can you trust that god?

or what if you are a polytheist? should it say God(s)?

what if you believe in not a god, but in reincarnation until you reach nirvana?

what if you believe in fairies and spirits, but no god?

It only makes sense for the government to have a neutral position on religion. therefore not make references to religion at all, even on money.

That whole "better safe to believe, just in case" is such bullshit. Religion is not an insurance policy. If a god did exist (i am a non-believer), then it most likely can't know or doesnt give a shit whether you acknowledge it or not.

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by geoff

i have seen this arguement over and over again. what onebadgt was saying is true. if christians are right then those who dont suffer a consequence. thats plain fact. either their is a God or there isnt. God real+believe=heaven, God real+no believe=hell,God not real+believe there is God= nothing, God not real+no believe=nothing. thats elementary for all you that like to make this complicated. for all those that dont believe and bash christianity and Jesus and try and prove us wrong...what is it for? did you suffer some kind of thing that made you so vindictive? did you listen to something a preacher said and you didnt like it cuz you heard you have to answer for your wrong doings? it sounds to me like alot of you had a bad experience with some false christians/church.

this is completely off topic

and as far as the bill of rights...you can keep saying you have rights all you want. its not true...the government is in control, you are of no importance and are expendable. let me see your bill of rights stand when they label you a "terrorist"

As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord. and He will be the solid ground i stand on

we dont have rights? thats news to me

i forgot about the first ammendment which gives us the right to voice our opinions

**Hulud** · 07-20-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by zimabog

It only makes sense for the government to have a neutral position on religion. therefore not make references to religion at all, even on money.

exactly

That whole "better safe to believe, just in case" is such bullshit. Religion is not an insurance policy. If a god did exist (i am a non-believer), then it most likely can't know or doesnt give a shit whether you acknowledge it or not.

yea this thread went off on a tangent because some people *cough*onebadgt*cough* dont know how to actually discuss one certain issue

**zimabog** · 07-20-2009, 02:23 PM

in a court hearing a couple years ago the court said "it has nothing to do with religion"

which of course is bullshit

**_Christian_** · 07-20-2009, 03:28 PM

What if it read "In Allah We Trust" or "In God We Don't Trust"? Then surely you would feel it's better for a secularist nation to make no stance on religion at all, right? You should look at it from the standpoint of right and wrong instead of just supporting it because it's indicative of your own personal beliefs.

**zimabog** · 07-20-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by _Christian_

What if it read "In Allah We Trust" or "In God We Don't Trust"? Then surely you would feel it's better for a secularist nation to make no stance on religion at all, right? You should look at it from the standpoint of right and wrong instead of just supporting it because it's indicative of your own personal beliefs.

Allah is the same Abrahamic god that Christians and Jews believe in. It's just a name/language word.

**Ocelot** · 07-20-2009, 04:26 PM

honestly it would cost alot of money to redesign our currency, and, not saying i believe or don't, but does it really bother you that it is on your dollar? Cause i dont care what is written on my dollar, i only care that i can pay my bills

**geoff** · 07-20-2009, 08:24 PM

ocelot i can finally agree with you on something bro. who cares if its on the dollar...just concentrate on getting as much of it as you can

**ShooterMcGavin** · 07-20-2009, 09:49 PM

JESUS SAVES!

but satan gets the rebound and scores =/

**Hulud** · 07-21-2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by geoff

ocelot i can finally agree with you on something bro. who cares if its on the dollar...just concentrate on getting as much of it as you can

its our national motto. that is the issue at hand

**_Christian_** · 07-24-2009, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by zimabog

Allah is the same Abrahamic god that Christians and Jews believe in. It's just a name/language word.

I know, you're right. Imagine it says Apollo if you wish...

**zimabog** · 07-24-2009, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by _Christian_

I know, you're right. Imagine it says Apollo if you wish...

Apollo is a different god. allah = jewish god = christian god = bahai god

During the Moorish occupation of Iberia the Moores kept talking about how the Christians were "people of the book".

**_Christian_** · 07-25-2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by zimabog

Apollo is a different god.

Duh!!!

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