So where do YOU think you go when you die? Some say heaven or hell, some say you are reborn as something else, and some say you just die.
So whats your take on this?
I guess ill start it off, so where do you think...??
So where do YOU think you go when you die? Some say heaven or hell, some say you are reborn as something else, and some say you just die.
So whats your take on this?
i'm goin 6 ft under.
I think I'll just be dead.
Your 'spirit' will probably go to a state of euphoria and enlightment, free to wander the universe and bask in all it's glory. You will be one big ball of energy, able to be everything and nothing at all.....
but perhaps i've said too much...
But in all seriousness, I do hope and 'believe' there is something after. Not heaven as people describe it, but at least a place to rekindle with your loved ones.
I would certainly hope so, cause why then go through life, go through emotions like love, and get so close to another person (wife, life partner), only to die in the end and have nothing left, not seeing each other ever again? If so, being born is pretty pointless if there is nothing in the end.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
i'm going to be reincarnated
Nothingness. Complete nothingness in every sense of the words meaning.
summed it up real well at the end. Whats the point of living life, going threw the pains and struggles, ups and downs, if there is no point to it in the end, why live..... just go kill yourself, get it over with, if there is nothing in the end.Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300
Your 'spirit' will probably go to a state of euphoria and enlightment, free to wander the universe and bask in all it's glory. You will be one big ball of energy, able to be everything and nothing at all.....
but perhaps i've said too much...
But in all seriousness, I do hope and 'believe' there is something after. Not heaven as people describe it, but at least a place to rekindle with your loved ones.
I would certainly hope so, cause why then go through life, go through emotions like love, and get so close to another person (wife, life partner), only to die in the end and have nothing left, not seeing each other ever again? If so, being born is pretty pointless if there is nothing in the end.
Its just a bodykit
I figured you planed on going to "GT-R Fanboy Heaven."
I think you get one chance at life so you better make it worth it, because when you die thats it, your dead ,there is nothing else.
The point of life is living, going through those ups and downs makes you who you are, make you wiser and stronger as a person. Thus sharing your life lessons with the next generation so that they them selves may then lead a better, more fruitful life. Add that, plus basic human nature, the need/want to insure that the species continues and you have your reason for living without religion.
Last edited by qwick; 02-17-2009 at 10:52 PM.
But ... why???? Why fall in love then, if in the end, there is nothing? Might as well never fall in love, never get married.. just live and eat like wild animals and die off....I think you get one chance at life so you better make it worth it, because when you die thats it, your dead ,there is nothing else.
The point of life is living, going through those ups and downs makes you who you are, make you wiser and stronger as a person. Thus sharing your life lessons with the next generation so that they them selves may then lead a better, more fruitful life. Add that, plus basic human nature, the need/want to insure that the species continues and you have your reason for living without religion.
The simple fact that we are the ONLY species to harbor such emotions and intelligence, tells me that there has to be something else for us. If not, we are pretty much a big waste of space..... we do more harm than good to the planet anyway.....
Why would "God" or evolution or whatever give us the ability to love someone that we would DIE for.... live our entire life together with them, only to forever separate us in the end? Why then give us the ability to love our parents, our kids, our partners etc.? Animals don't really have this? I don't think they really cry when we give away one of their litter? Or if we eat one of their embryo's? (eggs). Why do WE have this then? That would just be too cruel, to torture us with the sorrow and knowledge of death with no hope for rekindling.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Exactly cause no matter how much fun you had living, in the end you won't remember shit anyway, right? It's not like you would be lying in your casket going "oh shit.. that was a fun life !!".
It seems like a paradox to acumulate so many experiences and having nothing in the end.....
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
do you not know that many other animals pair for life and even go to extremes to protect their friends?
Many animals DO have "this". There has even been cross species friendship observed in some zoos that dont exactly separate the different animals.
Truth is, we, homo sapiens, are just as animal as they are. We are not special. We are more intelligent of course, we have more brain activity, more complex thinking, but we sir... are NOT divinely special.
Just like wood rots, grass dies, our cells get damaged by the world, and can't sustain themselves. we die, just like 300 year old trees, like squirrels, like dogs,like bugs.... just like a device... we turn off.
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves...."
That photo was taken IN the solar system. There is a lot more to the universe than homo sapiens, even if there was a god, we are not it's super special creation.
It's called instinct. I doubt an animal is aware WHY it does it.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
ill probably just die. lol.
but seriously, i have no idea about whats gonna happen.
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do you not know that many other animals pair for life and even go to extremes to protect their friends?
Many animals DO have "this". There has even been cross species friendship observed in some zoos that dont exactly separate the different animals.
Truth is, we, homo sapiens, are just as animal as they are. We are not special. We are more intelligent of course, we have more brain activity, more complex thinking, but we sir... are NOT divinely special. .[/QUOTE]
I would hate to disagree there. While we have some animal instincts, our advanced brain and higher intelligence does give us certain quality unique to us. We have emotions, rationale. We can tell differences between 'right' and 'wrong', where an animal can not. It is this emotion that usually drives a lot of our actions. I would dare say that we are the ONLY species that are able to THINK about our actions, their consequences, and what drives us to it. I would say that makes us, as a species, quite special.
A cat may show you affection that you may interpret as love, for example, but it's not a display of love on an emotional level like humans do; but more likely because it knows that you are the one that feeds it.
True, the universe is vast, but if there was a 'God' as you said, we ARE it's super special creation. That is what pretty much all religions (those with God) teach. And you are able to see that dot and write an entire paragraph, JUST BECAUSE you are special. You are 'aware', on a level no other species can match.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Call it instincts if you like, but what you feel when you see a hot women is no more than an instinct.
We have those instincts, but we also have a complex Limbic system in the brain. The more complex the brain is, the more complex the emotions. Its not like there is some special line drawn in the animal kingdom where anything below the line its called an instinct and anything above the line pure love. Love is a necessary instinct we have coupled with a very complex brain.
You and I are homo sapiens, it is impossible to know exactly how another creature feels, so one cant say much about what goes on in their head. You cant confirm that a dog thinks, loves, or knows right and wrong. Even though you can teach a dog to not pee on your floor. A baby doesnt know to take a crap in a toilet, thats why it has a diaper. A toddler will do bad things and not give a crap, because it hasnt learned that it is wrong yet. Same thing happens with a dog when it learns to go pee in the backyard. A CAT scan helps find out the locations and magnitude of brain activity, but you cant get exactly walk in their paws. You may be right, I may be right, but we cant know. We do however know, that humans are animals, we operate in the same way as most other animals.
A mouse may be as dumb as a.... mouse. A racoon is smarter than a mouse, it can learn more things. A dog is smarter than a racoon, it can show more emotion and stuff. A chimp is a lot smarter and can even be taught to do simple jobs that humans get paid to do. Humans are far smarter than all, we have certian genes that have evolved to help us with language (FOXP2 gene) and problem solving. But there is nothing that declares us as an animal created distincitly seperate and specially made by a god. We have no purpose on earth any more special than a mouse. If anything we have a determental effect on earth.
But what we do know is that humans are successful, not 'divinely special'.
Animals are not "put on earth for us to ride and eat" as the bible says. if you think we are that special, where our evolutionary line did the special happen? where in the evolutionary line did we not become just a creature in nature?
Our purpose is none. Our goal is to survive. We just have a lot of fun in the process.
Last edited by zimabog; 02-19-2009 at 01:10 PM.
i'm going to be burned to a fine powder and rest on the mantle in my childrens home
-Super cool .gif TO UNBAN JITB, JM, Buttons AND NEMISIS here-
by "we" do you mean homo sapeins or creatures in general?
Humans.
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
Strange though that we're the only animal species that cannot live in harmony with the world. It's Agent Smith telling about the Matrix all over again... We're a disease, consuming every natural resource available and we're the only species to adapt the environment to suit our needs... not adapting to the environment. Is that really evolution or is it an example of regression?
“What’s the point in living if there is no God?”
Ok think about all the people that you love, all the little things that bring you enjoyment, and all the things that you hold precious. Do you love, enjoy, and cherish those things because you believe there is a god? Would you care less about all those things if there wasn’t a god?
Let’s say I’m right and there is no god. Would you honestly be willing to give up on the things you love? If your answer is yes, then you really didn’t love them that much to start with. If your answer is no, then what does it matter if there is a god or not. Like I said above my opinion is that the point to life is living, and enjoying the time you have here on earth because once you’re dead, that’s it there is nothing else.
yea man me too...
1991 Acura Integra
1998 Toyota Corolla
to be honest, who cares about ones spirit? sure you try to save it... why would it matter, when you die, your memories and everything with it stays with the body... and decomposes correct? and the "spirit" will be off doing its own thing... which ever it might be (assuming it is being believed in). no one has any recollection of past events or other lives... TECHNICALLY our bodies is possessed by an outside force that lives through us and moves on as we die... I kinda made that last part up.. but I kinda feel used now lol..
I do ask of you to be logical of this and bash it all you want, I am looking forward to the responses!
darkprince10...
the problem with your statement is that it is an assumption that the spirit has no recollection and no memories. People who have "died" and been brought back and had "death or near death experiences" have all remembered and felt emotional connections. Some of them claim a sense of peace and some claim a sense of unrest and torment. So there is definitely more than just death.
I look at our situation (mankind) and it is obvious to me that there is something much much more than evolution (which I don't believe in) that makes us stand out.
Some of the simple facts about humans are:
We have the ability to destroy and to preserve life. With us it is given as a choice, not an instinct. Animals instinctively do things, dogs, cats, sharks, they live based off of instinct. A dog does not feel remorse for biting, nor do sharks decide that they would rather be plant eaters because they don't want to hurt other animals. I do believe we have instincts, but I also see that we are in a place that no other creature on this earth is in. There is something to that.
Also, lets look at evolution. The idea is that men all come from the same place. There are some problems with this theory.
1st. If one animal can evolve then we should also note that the same thing would be taking place in other species and groups in some sort of variation. This would mean that as we look around we would see other animals evolving to meet the "competition" for survival that men have become. We don't see this. In fact, we see animals like the shark who have come to a place where they are said to have not evolved for millions of years. They have not started to talk, they have not sprouted legs to get on land, they have simply remained the same. This places a big hole in the argument for evolution as a total category.
I do not believe that we come from monkeys because that would mean that they would have ceased to exist at some point because they would have been replaced by a stronger species.
Thats just the iceberg on the holes in the theory of evolution. Now I believe that people adapt, but I don't believe that the adaptation is a species changing thing, I believe its just like getting used to a new climate, or a new city. We adjust and we make due.
For those who think that we just die and that's it. There is an enormous amount of evidence to support the existence of paranormal activity. Spirits, ghosts, demons, whatever you want to call it, but the evidence is there. That evidence makes me stand pretty solid in a belief that there is much more to the world that what we see.
I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, and I believe that there is something powerful and penetrating that happened in the middle east 2 thousand years ago. I believe that even if you don't believe in the Bible as a person of Christian faith (notice I did not say religious person) that there is still a very large amount of evidence in historical documentation to support the history, the miraculous nature, and the moral usefulness (sadly bad and good) that exists in the pages of the Bible.
If you respond to this please PM me b/c I am not likely to come back here otherwise.
The point to life is to live for others. To be selfless. Read the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John and it will show you how to live your lives. Jesus was our example, then He died for us so we may repent and live blameless in the eyes of the Father.
Heaven and Hell are the two choices, choose well.
Nothin yet...
We do see evolution in other animals.
They are already the kings of the ocean. But they do evolve, but very slowly.In fact, we see animals like the shark who have come to a place where they are said to have not evolved for millions of years.
You are kind of correct here, most of the time old species die out because they are not competitive. But old species can still survive and live on. But in what you are talking about... Humans did not evolve from chimps or gorillas, but we do have a common ancestor at one point. They just evolved one direction and we went another. Humans did not branch off of modern primates; but many many years ago our ancestors came from the same branch.I do not believe that we come from monkeys because that would mean that they would have ceased to exist at some point because they would have been replaced by a stronger species.
Just getting things cleared up there.
Do I believe in god/heaven/hell?
Well I am a Catholic, but my views on religion are not exactly what preacher Joe would want them to be..
I like the fact that I am catholic, here for a common good, but I am not religious.. Also, believing in god gives hope, and sometimes, one really needs that hope..
It is a pretty selfish way to look at it, I don't acknowledge God, but for example, if I am taken hostage from Derka Derka Mohamed and about to get decapitated with a kitchen knife; I am going to pray God for a miracle..
thanks for PM'ing me.
The fossil record does not accurately depict the in between transitions for any species. That is fact. It shows that there have been numerous species of animals that have existed and are no longer around, but it does not accurately show that anything really evolved.
Science takes snapshots and makes a mosaic of time and attempts to make links when there is no evidence of a link. However there is evidence of similarities.
Another problem that hurts the idea of evolution is the origin of life itself. Some believe it was the perfect cocktail and a lightning strike. Some believe it was a comet (but this does not answer the origins of life question). Either way if it were that simple then we would have already conquered death and disproved the existence of souls.
We cannot revive a person who has been dead for a certain amount of time. we cannot take the elements of life and put them in a jar and strike them with lightning and watch bacteria form. There is just no way around it. If life was stated this way then we would have duplicated this a long time ago.
Evolution leads you to believe that life is just an ever molding thing that is working its way into some sort of nirvana state. The problem is that in order make a claim for evolution you have to also make a claim for origins of life.
A person who dies of a heart attack would get a new heart and get shocked and pick right up where they left off. This doesn't happen because there is MUCH more to life than the idea of big bang, a lightning bolt and then natural selection.
im not a doctor or medical professional so i cant go into the details of why exactly people die and stuff. But i will say that the big bang is flawed and has much evidence against it. it was also created by a catholic priest so that kind of says something.
But do you believe in natural selection? Do you know that the reason for blue eyes, skin color, blonde hair, red hair is a product of mutation and sexual selection?
For instance I will talk about blue eyes.
Blue eyes came into existence around the Black Sea 6000-10000 years ago through a mutation in the OCA2 gene. And through sexual selection it has become as large an eye color group as it is today. We all used to have brown eyes.
That is a sample of evolution in our very very recent history.
A support for an out of Africa theory is supported by the existence of Haplogroups, basically they are small mutations in your y-chromosome that can tell you where you very old ancestors came from. It is kind of complex to talk about, but you should look it up. But very interesting.
Even if you don't believe in evolution you have to admit the similarities.
modern human
Homo_heidelbergensis
Homo Antecessor
Homo Ergaster
we are all made of energy including everything on the planet so i think we will be some other form of energy.
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want a really twisted spin on our evolution, the sumarians said we are a human/alien hybrid from mars, and we came here from mars b/c of a planet exploding(asteroid belt) and destroyed the surface of mars 10k years ago, and we have interbred ever since. kind of fucked up isn't it. but those ancient people had technologies and knowledg that we did not know until recently. and some of the things that have been done cannot be duplicated today. i thought we were smarter lol.
Check out my for sale threads!! 15" competition speakerbox, 1TB External hard drive, and plenty of car parts!!!
I Need some WRX, 350Z, 240SX, Really any car owner to let me do R&D for Ground Kits, Please Let me See the layouts!!!
You've been beating off to Danica Patrick haven't you?
+reps for good posts from zimabog
That's not necessarily "evolution" but simply a mutational preferences. Blue eyes don't give you an advantage over brown eyed or even green eye'd folks. You supposedly see like all the rest of us do. The same can be said about a white person choosing to marry another white person. Just because they have another white baby does not make them an evolved person over another person of another color.
They say that homosexuality is either hormones or a DNA wiring issue (would you classify that as a mutation?). But homosexuals are not evolved just because of their differences... you get me?
(just to clarify, the theory of evolution is completely in conflict with homosexuality, as it surely does not pass along the continuation of the species)
The advantage of white skin revolves around vitamin D production in relation to sunlight conditions in northern latitudes. Something could be similar for blue eyes. Or it could just be a neutral mutation. It could have a physical advantage in the conditions where it originated or it could have to do with sexual selection preference... aka "attractive". But generally what we see as "attractive" is advantageous to the species where they are.
evolution is mutations that work.
work is being done on the genetic links of homosexuality, but im not read up on that. As far as I know homosexuality could be mutation, learned, whatever. i dont know. But what we do know that evolution is a series of mutations that have allowed our linage to survive to present day. Same goes for all creatures. They have survived because they can.
I think Sport was talking in the context that No animal has evolved to surpass the new predator of the day: Humans. Given how many thousands of millions of years, we have yet to see another animal species surpass the ingenuity of humans. The closests we've observed so far is gorillas using a twig to get some termites.
monkeys have learned to floss too, that was in the news recently. Monkeys to have one important thing in common to us. War. They have been observed staging large deadly battles in the jungle against other tribes.
But our land superiority can be thanked to great evolution + meat. Not anything divine.
HAHAHAHA You know it.. Seriously, I would lick her asshole clean.. The way she talks..
I spent two years as a bio major before deciding that I didn't want to go into medicine. The origin of blue eyes and the changes in skin color do not take into account the drastic jumps that evolution has no answer for. Based on evolutionary theories you would almost expect for a mutant baby to have just been born. Lets also keep in mind the traits that you mentioned are not necessarily passed along. Which means that there is no advantage.
Adaptation on the other hand is seen in every day life. A tanned white person versus a tanned black person. A tan does not mean that you have had some sort of genetic change...it just means that your body has absorbed light and has some damaged cells.
The assumption that you have made is that because a person conceives a baby when they have a tan, then that baby will be darker upon its birth. This is simply not the case. for kicks look at Michael Jackson should still have black babies...which leads me to believe the two we have seen him with are not his...even though he is as white as all get out.
This is more common evidence to show the error of nature selection theorists...
People with down syndrome can have normal healthy babies with no defects, people with autism, dwarfism, or giants can have children who do not display these traits. This is proof that the arguments have enormous holes in them.
Because even in disabilities we do not see a genetic trend to their frequency. This shows that these traits or mutations are simply a product of chance and (possibly side effects of other factors. If a person is born with one arm their kids are going to be born normal.
Aside from the "similarities" there is absolutely no concrete evidence, only suggestion, or untestable hypothesis. Now there are numerous scientists who will state that what many evolutionists are looking at is the proof that there were MORE ape or manlike species that went extinct for some reason or another. But the evidence for a thing like evolution would be pouring out of our ears with the shear age of our earth and the data that has been collected through our fossil record, but its not...there is a piece here, then a piece there, but no strong link to hold ground.
On a lighter note....
there is more evidence (and question) to support the existence of extra terrestrials on this earth through time than there is to support evolution and a pre-modern man species.
But my point again in all of this is to simply state that when discussion the origins of man, evolution does not have a solid foundation to stand on. Scientifically a creator of life on this planet is going to have much more support than evolution. Now whether you believe that creator is divine or not is a different question.
it doesnt have to take into account anything, genetic changes are changes no matter what period in history it is.
I think you are totally misunderstanding what I plainly said. I never said that a sun tan was genetic or anything like that. On your account I would have to say you have no idea what you are talking about. A person can get a tan from the sun, however a person just doesnt come back after a week in northern europe with blue eyes. You on the other hand seem to think it works this way? No!
People in africa are not black because of a sun tan, its because of genetics brought on by the conditions. I never said that a tan was genetic, ever. Read my posts over again and you will see that i never said such things.
you sir are a freaking idiot. I never said such things. GO AND READ MY POSTS!!!!!!!!!!
Please read my posts because you responding to things that i have never mentioned. I honestly think you are pulling stuff out your ass and responding to a different person. If you want to debate, at know what the other guy said. Its as if you said "I think the 911 system is important." And I responded "But of course cats are cuter than dogs!"
It simply makes no sense. That is what you did. Go and read.
you still have not addressed the genetic issues in 2 of my posts...
My total response was not addressed to you and there is intended sarcasm there as well.
genetic deformities and alterations which do not necessarily exist in a persons offspring, and the origins of life which this thread is about
Lastly, if you don't have the piece of mind to have this type of discussion without going into name calling or getting emotional then you should not respond to me because that's when my respect for you goes out the window.
The simple fact is that there is no solid science to support evolution. Only snapshots of time and hypothetical answers made to look like facts. The truth is scientist do not know for a fact that we originate from the same place as primates. That is why there is a phrase called the "missing link" because all of this stuff is not proven.
That is also why some people consider the theories of evolution to be the foundation of another religion. Simply put, it cannot be proven, and it can only be believed by faith, not scientific study.
BTW. part of my core study was genetics, I aced that my sophomore year of college. So its not coming from my ass...its coming from my professors and my curriculum.
I would like to add this quote to my "out of my ass" argument. it comes from :http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html. they are obviously creationists or intelligent design people, but the arguments made are thriving strong in at least the collegiate scientific community.
"But evolutionists want you to believe that changes continue, merging gradually into new kinds of creatures. This is where the imaginary part of the theory of evolution comes in. It says that new information is added to the gene pool by mutation and natural selection to create frogs from fish, reptiles from frogs, and mammals from reptiles, to name a few. Do these big changes really happen? Evolutionists tell us we cannot see evolution taking place because it happens too slowly. A human generation takes about 20 years from birth to parenthood. They say it took tens of thousands of generations to form man from a common ancestor with the ape, from populations of only hundreds or thousands. We do not have these problems with bacteria. A new generation of bacteria grows in as short as 12 minutes or up to 24 hours or more, depending on the type of bacteria and the environment, but typically 20 minutes to a few hours. There are more bacteria in the world than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches of the world (and many grains of sand are covered with bacteria). They exist in just about any environment: heat, cold, dry, wet, high pressure, low pressure, small groups, large colonies, isolated, much food, little food, much oxygen, no oxygen, in toxic chemicals, etc. There is much variation in bacteria. There are many mutations (in fact, evolutionists say that smaller organisms have a faster mutation rate than larger ones10). But they never turn into anything new. They always remain bacteria. Fruit flies are much more complex than already complex single-cell bacteria. Scientists like to study them because a generation (from egg to adult) takes only 9 days. In the lab, fruit flies are studied under every conceivable condition. There is much variation in fruit flies. There are many mutations. But they never turn into anything new. They always remain fruit flies. Many years of study of countless generations of bacteria and fruit flies all over the world shows that evolution is not happening today."
Last edited by sport_122; 03-16-2009 at 10:32 PM.
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