Religion - Join in the fun!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.

---

The 10 commandments are:

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think



3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.



4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.



Ok so God says its ok be lazy don’t do anything……I bet he voted for Obama.



5) Honor thy Father and Mother.



Have you met my parents…..ok then.



6) Thou shalt not murder.



I haven’t yet but I thought about it and according to the Bible a sin in the mind is as bad as a sin in the flesh.



7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6.



8) Thou shalt not steal.



I took a piece of gum from my brother when I was 7, and im not sorry for doing it.



9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.



Ok so don’t lie…..who here has ever lied? Who taught you how to lie?



10) Thou shalt not covet.



So basically your not suppose to want anything……that sucks.

If you follow all 10 of these "rules" like a good little Christian then all I have to do is say "God says" and you will do it.

Give me 40% of your money.......also known as offering



Go kill "this" group of people.......crusade/Holy War

(Even though your NOT suppose to kill anyone)



Ok now let do a little experiment. Lets say we could go back in time to before you "knew" who God was. This time around instead of going to church ever Sunday to learn about God you go to a farm and learn about "Jack and the bean stalk" Instead of telling me "Yes there is a God" would you be saying "Yes there is a guy named Jack with a magic bean stalk, and at the top of the magic bean stalk is a giant".



LOL of course you wouldn’t because that’s just ridiculous. Magic bean stalks, some guy aka “giant” that lives in the sky we cant see, that’s crazy talk.









Lets say I kill some one, and when asked why did I do that I say “A voice told me to” ….I’m crazy right? Now lets say I send an entire army to kill everyone in a small town and when asked why I did that I say “God himself told me to”…….that’s ok, there is nothing wrong with a voice telling me to go and kill some one as long as that voices name is God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qwick

The 10 commandments are:

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think



3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.



4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.



Ok so God says its ok be lazy don’t do anything……I bet he voted for Obama.



5) Honor thy Father and Mother.



Have you met my parents…..ok then.



6) Thou shalt not murder.



I haven’t yet but I thought about it and according to the Bible a sin in the mind is as bad as a sin in the flesh.



7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6.



8) Thou shalt not steal.



I took a piece of gum from my brother when I was 7, and im not sorry for doing it.



9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.



Ok so don’t lie…..who here has ever lied? Who taught you how to lie?



10) Thou shalt not covet.



So basically your not suppose to want anything……that sucks.

---

HAHA

Lets do this together:

Quote:

---

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.

---

Wouldn't you be if he could smite the earth with a blink of an eye?

Quote:

---

2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think

---

He doesn't want to share. And if you think that's childish, the next time a girl cheats on you, let it slide. because it's petty to be the only one.

Quote:

---

3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.

---

You have got to be joking. Going to hell, for saying God Damn it.

Quote:

---

4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.



Ok so God says its ok be lazy don’t do anything……I bet he voted for Obama.

---

God says nothing about being lazy. In fact, he says work and then rest on the 7th day in rememberance of him also resting. He is telling you that you can take a break every once in a while...

Quote:

---

5) Honor thy Father and Mother.



Have you met my parents…..ok then.

---

Does it matter what kind of parents they were? A Christian would say, "yes he has met your parents." You should still honor them and love them as your parents even if you can't respect hem as people.

Quote:

---

6) Thou shalt not murder.



I haven’t yet but I thought about it and according to the Bible a sin in the mind is as bad as a sin in the flesh.

---

You thinking about murder is called wooden swearing. It's having impure thoughts or showing discontent. Like wanting to kill someone in traffic or slamming the phone when you are frustrated. Not exactly a sin, but it does lead to worse things. Kind of like anger leading to the dark side...

Quote:

---

7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.



Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6.

---

You continuously seem to think that just because you do something, it is justified as ok to do. It's not. Adultery is no where near as bad in society as it used to be, but it is still against the rules. Now, very few people follow this, but you are still breaking the rule if you have sex. And the sin of the mind is more coveting. You want something that isn't yours. But lust isn't neccesarily a sin. Everyone does it.

Quote:

---

8) Thou shalt not steal.



I took a piece of gum from my brother when I was 7, and im not sorry for doing it.

---

A piece of gum, come on, you have stolen worse. A piece of gum is petty. Again though, this goes back to your idea that says because it's ok to you, means it's ok.

Quote:

---

9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.



Ok so don’t lie…..who here has ever lied? Who taught you how to lie?

---

Actually Christians' believe that humans had the ability to lie. but it wasn;t until satan convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit did she know how to utilize the ability.

Quote:

---

10) Thou shalt not covet.



So basically your not suppose to want anything……that sucks.

---

He's not saying you can't want. Do not wish ill will on someone because of their assetts.


I couldn't stop laughing because you thought this was a good way to come back against the 10 commandments.

Just because your moral code is weak and flawed does not mean that everyone else can break the rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qwick

If you follow all 10 of these "rules" like a good little Christian then all I have to do is say "God says" and you will do it.

Give me 40% of your money.......also known as offering



Go kill "this" group of people.......crusade/Holy War

(Even though your NOT suppose to kill anyone)



Ok now let do a little experiment. Lets say we could go back in time to before you "knew" who God was. This time around instead of going to church ever Sunday to learn about God you go to a farm and learn about "Jack and the bean stalk" Instead of telling me "Yes there is a God" would you be saying "Yes there is a guy named Jack with a magic bean stalk, and at the top of the magic bean stalk is a giant".



LOL of course you wouldn’t because that’s just ridiculous. Magic bean stalks, some guy aka “giant” that lives in the sky we cant see, that’s crazy talk.









Lets say I kill some one, and when asked why did I do that I say “A voice told me to” ….I’m crazy right? Now lets say I send an entire army to kill everyone in a small town and when asked why I did that I say “God himself told me to”…….that’s ok, there is nothing wrong with a voice telling me to go and kill some one as long as that voices name is God.

---

You need to stop talking.

Everytime you post you sound more rediculous.

Tithing is something you do to the church. to pay bills, because even though its a non profit, water and electricity still get used. Tehy also use that money to help the community, feed the homeless and keep the building and property up.

You cannot give moeny to God. What does he need is for? He lives where the streets are paved with one of our most precious metals. You tithe because you are giving back to him by sacraficing something that is important to you to show faith.


There is a difference between murder and killing. Death is part of life and there have been numerous times that God himself has demanded his people kill. The Crusades though, were none of this. These were Christian men who decided to take back the Holy Land, oh, and rescue their King. Even though they proclaimed it was for God, there is nothing (accepted as God's word) that states he asked for the war.


People know what they are taught. and even the bible says, you will not be punished for what you don't know. If you were never introduced to him, then you can't be punished for making the wrong choice.

Jack and the Beanstalk? seriously:lmfao:


Let's say you do kill someone. And you tell them that a voice made you do it. You will be put away. God very seldomly came down and said, "Kill this one person." Usually it was to a leader about a tribe of people. To a leader... If a group of people killed another group because the had faith that God told you so, then (not only would they be stupid for listening to someone as uneducated as you are) but you would be the leader, and you would end up taking the responsibilty if God never charged you with that task.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

HAHA

Lets do this together:



Wouldn't you be if he could smite the earth with a blink of an eye?

True but then again i am ony a petty human, why would God need to boast



He doesn't want to share. And if you think that's childish, the next time a girl cheats on you, let it slide. because it's petty to be the only one.

Once again I am human, why would a god need to be jealous


You have got to be joking. Going to hell, for saying God Damn it.

Hey big man up stairs says it bad so who amI to disagree.


God says nothing about being lazy. In fact, he says work and then rest on the 7th day in rememberance of him also resting. He is telling you that you can take a break every once in a while...

+ points for you


Does it matter what kind of parents they were? A Christian would say, "yes he has met your parents." You should still honor them and love them as your parents even if you can't respect hem as people.

Go to DEFACS and tell that t e little 13 year old girl whos dad rapped and beat her she has to "honor" him.


You thinking about murder is called wooden swearing. It's having impure thoughts or showing discontent. Like wanting to kill someone in traffic or slamming the phone when you are frustrated. Not exactly a sin, but it does lead to worse things. Kind of like anger leading to the dark side...

the bible says no one sin is greater than the other and the mear though of a sin is equal to the action of carrin out that sin


You continuously seem to think that just because you do something, it is justified as ok to do. It's not. Adultery is no where near as bad in society as it used to be, but it is still against the rules. Now, very few people follow this, but you are still breaking the rule if you have sex. And the sin of the mind is more coveting. You want something that isn't yours. But lust isn't neccesarily a sin. Everyone does it.

1. the 10 commandments dont say anthig about what "society" thinks about sin, it says do any of tese things and your a bad person.

2.Like above the bible says thinking of a sin or in a sinfull manner is equal to auctualy carring out the sin.



A piece of gum, come on, you have stolen worse. A piece of gum is petty. Again though, this goes back to your idea that says because it's ok to you, means it's ok.

Yes stealing gum is very petty and I have stole worse ,the point I was making is that stealing gum is equal to stealing a car in gods eyes, as I have stated befor no one sin geater than the other.


Actually Christians' believe that humans had the ability to lie. but it wasn;t until satan convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit did she know how to utilize the ability.

Having the ability to do something and knowing how to utilize that ability are to very different things.




He's not saying you can't want. Do not wish ill will on someone because of their assetts.

Every one wants something you dont have even if you dont wish ill will on some one else for what they have the simple fact that you want what they have is covetting.

I couldn't stop laughing because you thought this was a good way to come back against the 10 commandments.

It was more of way to show simple human nature that everyone does on a daily basis has to be suppresed accordig to the bible.

Just because your moral code is weak and flawed does not mean that everyone else can break the rules.

---

My moral code is just fine as it is, It mght not be as well structured as other but then again your only judging me off of post so you wouldnt realy have clue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

Tithing is something you do to the church. to pay bills, because even though its a non profit, water and electricity still get used. Tehy also use that money to help the community, feed the homeless and keep the building and property up.

You cannot give moeny to God. What does he need is for? He lives where the streets are paved with one of our most precious metals. You tithe because you are giving back to him by sacraficing something that is important to you to show faith.
Right all the money given to some guy on the TV go to what you listed above? come on man realy you think that? Search yahoo for the homes of some of the televangelist, there freaking huge and extravagnt, If they were so worried about being close to god the moey they spent on their home woud have been sent back in to the communitys. Now yes some churches do give back to communitys and yes i know they have bills to pay but think about this, lets say we go to this church that has 15 (average american) members. How much money a week are you bringing in if every one tiths 40% or even only 20%?

There is a difference between murder and killing. Death is part of life and there have been numerous times that God himself has demanded his people kill. The Crusades though, were none of this. These were Christian men who decided to take back the Holy Land, oh, and rescue their King. Even though they proclaimed it was for God, there is nothing (accepted as God's word) that states he asked for the war.

I never said God had to say go kill, I just ment that if "King whatever" says kill a person or group of people and some one ask why it is accepted and more palatable if his respons is "god said so"

People know what they are taught. and even the bible says, you will not be punished for what you don't know. If you were never introduced to him, then you can't be punished for making the wrong choice.

The point here is that chistians belive in a very far fetched story, replace this story with another one or a fairy tale and all of a sudden its laughble, or even more so.

Jack and the Beanstalk? seriously:lmfao:

Ok the old testement in a nut shell: God say to Joseph "im gonna knock up you wife, dont worry tho she will still be a virgin. She will give birth to a baby boy named Jesus that is realy me."

*Skip ahead a little*

Jesus who is also god goes around and does "magic" and "heals" people and also teaches that his "father" (who by the way didnt have sex with his mom and is also him)sent him here to teach ever one about God(his self).

*skip ahead some more*

Some guy gets mad at Jesus(God) and decides to kill him. And in stead of saving him self with his "magic" he lets it happen to frogive the sins of every one past, present and future. Now Jeasus and God who are the one and the same but NOT are chillen in this very exclusive club called Heaven, and the only way in is to follow there rules here on earth.

---

Its sounds like a made up story.

no, the point is you cant follow the rules. all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The ten commandents as paul stated are a "school teacher" a measuring stick to show us Gods standards and we dont measure up. the Key is forgiveness through belief in Christ. and yeah God is jealous. he has done so much for us including dying. he compares us to his wife in the bible. your wife cheating on you( seaking other things for happiness instead of him) is horrible. Jesus is not a fairy tale. you are smoking if you think he never existed. its supported by so many documents of the day. so are his "magical" acts. You can beleive what ever you want about God but it doesnt matter. You can beleive you have the gift of flight but jump off a building and you will find out shortly on how much your or my ipinion means in the big scheme of things. also sure there are wicked immoral pastors and their are good ones as well does that make the bible or God anyless true? od some research and you will be amazed at how much of the bible is not "make beleive"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qwick

Originally Posted by stillaneon

Tithing is something you do to the church. to pay bills, because even though its a non profit, water and electricity still get used. Tehy also use that money to help the community, feed the homeless and keep the building and property up.

You cannot give moeny to God. What does he need is for? He lives where the streets are paved with one of our most precious metals. You tithe because you are giving back to him by sacraficing something that is important to you to show faith.
Right all the money given to some guy on the TV go to what you listed above? come on man realy you think that? Search yahoo for the homes of some of the televangelist, there freaking huge and extravagnt, If they were so worried about being close to god the moey they spent on their home woud have been sent back in to the communitys. Now yes some churches do give back to communitys and yes i know they have bills to pay but think about this, lets say we go to this church that has 15 (average american) members. How much money a week are you bringing in if every one tiths 40% or even only 20%?

There is a difference between murder and killing. Death is part of life and there have been numerous times that God himself has demanded his people kill. The Crusades though, were none of this. These were Christian men who decided to take back the Holy Land, oh, and rescue their King. Even though they proclaimed it was for God, there is nothing (accepted as God's word) that states he asked for the war.

I never said God had to say go kill, I just ment that if "King whatever" says kill a person or group of people and some one ask why it is accepted and more palatable if his respons is "god said so"

People know what they are taught. and even the bible says, you will not be punished for what you don't know. If you were never introduced to him, then you can't be punished for making the wrong choice.

The point here is that chistians belive in a very far fetched story, replace this story with another one or a fairy tale and all of a sudden its laughble, or even more so.

Jack and the Beanstalk? seriously:lmfao:

Ok the old testement in a nut shell: God say to Joseph "im gonna knock up you wife, dont worry tho she will still be a virgin. She will give birth to a baby boy named Jesus that is realy me."

*Skip ahead a little*

Jesus who is also god goes around and does "magic" and "heals" people and also teaches that his "father" (who by the way didnt have sex with his mom and is also him)sent him here to teach ever one about God(his self).

*skip ahead some more*

Some guy gets mad at Jesus(God) and decides to kill him. And in stead of saving him self with his "magic" he lets it happen to frogive the sins of every one past, present and future. Now Jeasus and God who are the one and the same but NOT are chillen in this very exclusive club called Heaven, and the only way in is to follow there rules here on earth.

---

This is so ridiculously off base its not even funny. If you dont want to believe in God thats cool man. Everyone has to a choice to make their own decisions. But if your going to try to make an intelligent argument against Christianity you need to do a little research on the subject. When you say, this sounds like a made up story, its because it is. You just made it up.

To start Tything is 10% of your income not 40. Uncle Sam takes about 28% and up of your income. Maybe you should see what he is doing with all the money. Like stillaneon said, Tything is something you do to 1. help the church with bills and helping the community. 2. to show a leap of faith by God. It also states that those who give to God will be rewarded heavily. Its a leap of faith. Lets say you give up 100 bucks a month. You love your money and dont want to give it up.....Believe me, God makes it up to you. Plus it helps countless people.

Yes there are TV evangelists out there that are doing nothing more than ripping people off. There are also ones who are truely trying to help people. You cannot blame God for those idiots that take advantage of the "God" name just to rip you off. That is there choice, and those who are real Chirstians can tell the difference based on what they preach, and if God is truely speaking through them.

You say Christianty is a far fetched story. Look at the Big Bang Theory. So you mean to tell me, out of no where there was this very small mass created. Then this mass that popped up out of nowhere exploded. The just by chance these single cell organizims were created from dust, then turned into thousands of species of Animals and plant life. Then some turned into monkeys that eventually got smart and became human. Let me ask you, why didnt lions evolve into something smarter and able to build things? Why just monkeys? Also pretty interesting that everything on this earth lives off Water and that happens to be the most abbudent source on the planet. Plus every organizm lives off other ones by chance. Its pure coincidence that people breath oxogen and exhale carbon dioxide but plants are the exact opposite so that our earth always has both. So Plants and people could coexist. All this just by chance. So what kind of far fetched story do you believe in?

Quote:

---

True but then again i am ony a petty human, why would God need to boast

---

Why question it? He can do what he wants. The bible says god is boastful. If he wasn't talking the talk and walking the walk, then no one would know about him and hence no one would believe or be saved.

Quote:

---

Once again I am human, why would a god need to be jealous

---

Remember, he is looking out for you. He doesn't want you to believe in something "false" because he wants you to be saved

Quote:

---

Hey big man up stairs says it bad so who amI to disagree.

---

That's all you have been doing is coming up with bullshit reasons why you shouldn't believe.

Quote:

---

+ points for you

---

Thanks

Quote:

---

Go to DEFACS and tell that t e little 13 year old girl whos dad rapped and beat her she has to "honor" him.

---

Anyone who is physically abusive isn't a real parent. Just because your biological, doesn't make you a parent

Quote:

---

the bible says no one sin is greater than the other and the mear though of a sin is equal to the action of carrin out that sin

---

Wrong. The bible has deadly sins as well as breaking the 10 commandments
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride.

But the biggest Sin is to denounce the existance of the Holy spirit. That is the only unforgiveable sin

Quote:

---

1. the 10 commandments dont say anthig about what "society" thinks about sin, it says do any of tese things and your a bad person.

2.Like above the bible says thinking of a sin or in a sinfull manner is equal to auctualy carring out the sin.

---

You are correct, the 10 commandements don't but your previous statement was, "Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6."
This to me sounds like you are saying its ok because society doesn't look down upon it as much.

Quote:

---

Every one wants something you dont have even if you dont wish ill will on some one else for what they have the simple fact that you want what they have is covetting.

---

Covet - to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably

The keys words are bolded. You can want something. That's why they make more than one. It is wanting something exceedingly or overzealously or your intentions that make it covetting instead of aspirations

Quote:

---

It was more of way to show simple human nature that everyone does on a daily basis has to be suppresed accordig to the bible.

---

Even god knows this.
Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"
He is all knowing. He realizes you will make mistakes. The rules are there to guide you on a path, not to punish you....

Quote:

---

Right all the money given to some guy on the TV go to what you listed above? come on man realy you think that? Search yahoo for the homes of some of the televangelist, there freaking huge and extravagnt, If they were so worried about being close to god the moey they spent on their home woud have been sent back in to the communitys. Now yes some churches do give back to communitys and yes i know they have bills to pay but think about this, lets say we go to this church that has 15 (average american) members. How much money a week are you bringing in if every one tiths 40% or even only 20%?

---

If you honestly believe that all tithing goes to TV evangalists, you are sadly mistaken. I'm not a Christina, but I still tithe to my father's church because I know that the money will be used to help out others. Tithing is 10% not 40%.

And if you want to see where the TV evangalists are wrong, read Genesis 28:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Holy Bible

Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s house, then the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth” (Genesis 28:20-22).

---

You do not owe religious leaders a thing. You tithe to help, not to pay off God

Quote:

---

I never said God had to say go kill, I just ment that if "King whatever" says kill a person or group of people and some one ask why it is accepted and more palatable if his respons is "god said so"

---

No it's not. There is a seperation of church and state in most countries. Unless you are a barbarian (which had pagan gods btw) usually you don't just attack another country unless you have some cause. Again, who would question a King anyway? Marshall law would dictate you dying if you questioned a kings authority. I would have understood if you said president, but then again, that's what the check and balance system is for.

Quote:

---

The point here is that chistians belive in a very far fetched story, replace this story with another one or a fairy tale and all of a sudden its laughble, or even more so.

---

It's called faith. And I won't dog it. If people believe it and it fills the void in their life, then neither should you. Unless you have proof it's farfetched, then keep your opinions to yourself. Remember, God Transcends our understandings.

Quote:

---

Ok the old testement in a nut shell: God say to Joseph "im gonna knock up you wife, dont worry tho she will still be a virgin. She will give birth to a baby boy named Jesus that is realy me."

*Skip ahead a little*

Jesus who is also god goes around and does "magic" and "heals" people and also teaches that his "father" (who by the way didnt have sex with his mom and is also him)sent him here to teach ever one about God(his self).

*skip ahead some more*

Some guy gets mad at Jesus(God) and decides to kill him. And in stead of saving him self with his "magic" he lets it happen to frogive the sins of every one past, present and future. Now Jeasus and God who are the one and the same but NOT are chillen in this very exclusive club called Heaven, and the only way in is to follow there rules here on earth.

---

Umm I hate to point this out but this would be the New Testament, and it would only be the gospels.

God never talked to Joseph or Mary, Gabriel did.

He was conceived immaculately, and did walk the earth performing miracles. He prophesized and taught how to be a decent person (what's wrong with that)

It was more than one guy, the Pharisees, saw their world crumbling. They were rich off of misleading the people and they had power, and then one man (the son of a carpenter) was destroying it so they had him killed on insane charges. And it is well known that the bible explains, He could have saved himself, but he died and suffered so that you wouldn't have to kill a lamb once a year at passover. He bridged the gap between God and people by showing that God was also a man. Now we talk to him through prayer (unless you are catholic).

But I see what you are saying:
http://ronsworld.files.wordpress.com...nity-thumb.jpg

There is no such thing as religion, only faith.

to me todays religion is all about money/power i hate the rev,priest what ever who lives in a manssion and shows off his huge church on tv with all his gold on his body,ppl suffer and then he gos on a preaches his bullshit.
and then you have the ones who actually do it with out caring how big their church is,i have respect for them but as for me im not into the whole church thing and ill be agnostic untill i die and dont push your religion on me because i could really careless(im talking to the ppl who knock on my door on the weekends)
aliens exist:D :taun:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

Why question it? He can do what he wants. The bible says god is boastful. If he wasn't talking the talk and walking the walk, then no one would know about him and hence no one would believe or be saved.



Remember, he is looking out for you. He doesn't want you to believe in something "false" because he wants you to be saved



That's all you have been doing is coming up with bullshit reasons why you shouldn't believe.

Your argumnts above works on the principle that I do "belive" in him. My thing is why does something so"great" so "devine" and "holy" , act like a young child? Also the whole point of these commandments is to teach you to be a better person and thus be more like God, yet he says dont be boastful or jealous even tho he him self is.


Thanks



Anyone who is physically abusive isn't a real parent. Just because your biological, doesn't make you a parent

The 10 comandments did not have any loop holes or bi-laws built in, God word is finaly. "Honor thy father and mother" thats it, it doesnt say off to the side "unless they do something bad to you"



Wrong. The bible has deadly sins as well as breaking the 10 commandments
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride.

Wrong the seven deadly sins were never auctualy part of the Bible. They were written many years after by a monk as a list of 8 sins and re-writen by a preist even later on as what we know today as the 7 deadly sin.This list of sins was man made and never handed down by God or his angels.

But the biggest Sin is to denounce the existance of the Holy spirit. That is the only unforgiveable sin

If you belive in him.Other wise im just making fun of a fictional character

You are correct, the 10 commandements don't but your previous statement was, "Come on, you gotta play the field some.*same rules as #6."
This to me sounds like you are saying its ok because society doesn't look down upon it as much.

thank you.

Covet - to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably

The keys words are bolded. You can want something. That's why they make more than one. It is wanting something exceedingly or overzealously or your intentions that make it covetting instead of aspirations

+ points again

Even god knows this.
Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"
He is all knowing. He realizes you will make mistakes. The rules are there to guide you on a path, not to punish you....

---

..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

If you honestly believe that all tithing goes to TV evangalists, you are sadly mistaken. I'm not a Christina, but I still tithe to my father's church because I know that the money will be used to help out others. Tithing is 10% not 40%.

And if you want to see where the TV evangalists are wrong, read Genesis 28:

You do not owe religious leaders a thing. You tithe to help, not to pay off God

My views of this subject are from a personal experience, being that it is a tender subject I would like to omit any more arguments on this subject.

No it's not. There is a seperation of church and state in most countries. Unless you are a barbarian (which had pagan gods btw) usually you don't just attack another country unless you have some cause. Again, who would question a King anyway? Marshall law would dictate you dying if you questioned a kings authority. I would have understood if you said president, but then again, that's what the check and balance system is for.

For example the crap going on in the Middel East, even tho its mainly the radical Muslims do the bombing and what not they are doing it in there gods name. Also I use the term "king" loose, basicaly meaning anyone in power over a group of people.

Also I know the Keran(sp?) never says for them to do any this, but perverted faith is still faith none the less.

It's called faith. And I won't dog it. If people believe it and it fills the void in their life, then neither should you. Unless you have proof it's farfetched, then keep your opinions to yourself. Remember, God Transcends our understandings.

I think you miss understand me. I wish no ill will on thoes who belive in religion nore do I wish to change there minds of such.I just dont agree with it. I do have friends that are religious, we just avoid this subject.

---

..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

I am an Atheist.

---

I'm only responding to the things that I find interesting...

Because the majority of the stuff you posted I've known since I was in middle school.

I have a hard time with Atheism cause I think we're lacking a really good definition here. If it is simply people who do not believe in God, it needs some explanation. Does that refer to the Judeo-Christian God? Does it refer to all gods, including the Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Norse, or Celtic pantheons? Do your atheistic beliefs include every single possibility of God that has ever been conceived, including Shiva, Vishnu, or the concept of Nirvana?

If it does, then I would like to know how you gleaned that knowledge. This goes out to all the atheists here... I'm serious. How do you know for sure that there is NOTHING out there? Isn't claiming you KNOW that there is a LACK of something to claim that you know EVERYTHING that is?

For example, if I said I had a poster of Megan Fox on my bedroom wall, could you verify that I in fact, do NOT, until you come to my apartment, observe each wall, and realize that not a single square inch of wall contains such a poster? Of course not. So what gives you such a knowledge of the universe to say there is NO god or higer power out there?

I think it's quite a mighty claim to say you know for SURE that something DOES NOT exist, when it has the entire infinite universe in which to reside. Now, I not saying that in some planet out there lives some person who sees what goes on all around him and that he has powers that we just can't comprehend but to say that their is nothing out there and that all of this happened by chance is stupid. Which is why I sometimes rather not even put myself in a catagory.

Here's a question - Do atheists deny the existence of all divine beings, or just the typical ones?
By definition, it would be all. Otherwise, they would be a skeptic. Right?


Let's take the tooth fairy.
Since you haven't seen the tooth fairy, it must not exist, correct? Suppose you lose a tooth, put it under your pillow one night, and wake up the next morning to find a quarter in it's place?

Do you believe:
A. The natural order of the universe is to replace teeth with quarters.
B. Pillows have a magical power to convert teeth to quarters
C. Some external force was messing with you and you want your damn tooth back because a quarter isn't worth anything anymore!

If you cannot detect something physically, does that mean it is not real? What about the concepts of love and hate? What about all concepts? You cannot physcially measure love, does that mean that it does not exist? Especially since "God is love" in the Bible - does that mean that you really don't want to believe in love? Also, what about hate, faith, hope, justice, etc? Do they exist? What makes them real to you?
If you believe in ANY higher power, then BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION, you are not an atheist.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

More or less my point is that unless you claim to know everything, you can't say there's DEFINITELY no god. Now, if you wanna say you don't believe in Christianity, Jesus, and Santa Clause, that's a different story. And we can argue about that all day long, with much better results.

And aside from that, just because you haven't seen, heard, or experienced any physical evidence of a god doesn't mean other people haven't. Consider the tooth fairy, if you want to use that example. We all know that's not true, and yet you have experienced evidence that it is. So why is the reverse not true? It seems like a leap of logic to say that because you haven't seen any evidence of something that in the whole wide universe it doesn't exist.

Again, I'm agnostic but I'm not going to sit here and say that we are it and there is nothing greater than us out there. Because we don't know and it's smarter to keep learning until we find the answers. Keep claiming you're an atheist - just try not to be to caught up so much in your belief that it'll leave you sounding like a dude on crack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

You say on one of the planets had enough oxygen and water to sustain life. How do you know it was just one?

---

You took my OP and read too deep into it. Perhaps you didn't catch the sarcasm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

And after all the circles in your post, can you honestly say that you don't believe in a higher power? That question is just as elborate and thought out as yours. The question is, WHY WOULDN'T A GREATER POWER KNOW ENOUGH TO COVER ALL THE BASES IF HE WAS GOING TO MAKE AN INTRACATE UNIVERSE? You post for the entertainment of "putting Christians' in their place" but you haven't really asked anything that would prove Christianity wrong.

---

I'm agnostic, son. I do believe in a higer power...

And you think I'm really trying to put Christians and religious nutcases in their place? I haven't even started and already I've won. But if you wanna see that I can I'll type down a questions for them.


Here's 1 question. Hell - does it make sense to you? Because it doesn't to me... unless the devil is actually in cahoots with god, the entire premise of hell makes no sense to me. Why would the devil punish people who don't believe in god? Shouldn't hell be some heathen paradise as a reward for sinners?

If you have an answer quote this and reply. If I get a good response I'll ask another one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stillaneon

Unfortunately, I envy them. I wish I could be so brainless to believe something that there is no proof besides for a book written by men, and translated by even more men over the course of thousands of years. I wish I could find the pure and blind faith to never ask for proof and ask questions. But I don't. But these questions should do nothing but make any knowledged person laugh.

---

Dear God,

Thanks for muscles that contract spontaneously. And an immune system that can't tell the difference between a speck of dust and an invading army of microbes. And the dual use of the throat for eating/drinking and breathing - that's real classy. Also, thanks for the bounty of undrinkable water on this planet - that'll come in handy. And barren, lifeless deserts. And 110°F summers. And hurricanes. And random meteor strikes.

Oh and one more thing God. As our creator, I would like to give thanks on behalf of all of humanity for the following...

- For giving homo sapiens an appendix which serves no purpose other than to become infected and potentially life threatening.

- For our extremely poorly designed and vulnerable knee joints.

- For allowing the hair on our arms to stick up, providing no useful resistance to cold or wind, as it does with other animals.

- For testing us by afflicting some (including your most ardent followers) with blindness, leukemia, sickle cell anemia, bipolar disorder, autism, deafness, alzheimer's, man there are too many to list.

- For creating a world in which you knew in advance that atrocities would be committed in your name, yet have done nothing to directly (or even indirectly for that matter) to stop them.

- For allowing your followers to further the spread of AIDS and promote world overpopulation.

- For subverting the rights of women everywhere.

- For contradicting your own stories in every book written by you or directly on your behalf.

- For poisoning the minds of children, often irreparably, so that you may serve as their 'shepherd' and reducing your greatest creation to that of a mindless herd animal.

There are many more things for which I'd like to give you thanks, and I humbly beg your forgiveness for being unable to come up with them at this time.

In Jesus' name
Amen.

Quote:

---

Here's 1 question. Hell - does it make sense to you? Because it doesn't to me... unless the devil is actually in cahoots with god, the entire premise of hell makes no sense to me. Why would the devil punish people who don't believe in god? Shouldn't hell be some heathen paradise as a reward for sinners?

If you have an answer quote this and reply. If I get a good response I'll ask another one.

---

Of course he is. Read Job. It says the devils strolls into Heaven talking to angels. That was his home. Satan may not be the pure evil that everyone believes. Maybe he just reminds God of the other side.

And The Devil has no say in Hell, he was cast there by God just as the unforgiven.

I'm pretty much done in this thread. I was hoping for more debate so I could get into nitty gritty. but I end up arguing for a side I don't neccesarioly believe in.


And you are correct. I can't say for a fact that God doesn't exist. I can say that I don;t believe and until I find sufficient evidence to sway me otherwise, I will remain with the beliefs I have.

Here's 1 question. Hell - does it make sense to you? Because it doesn't to me... unless the devil is actually in cahoots with god, the entire premise of hell makes no sense to me. Why would the devil punish people who don't believe in god? Shouldn't hell be some heathen paradise as a reward for sinners?



This is just to answer the quesion. I'm not making any claims on my beliefs; only what I know and/or perceive on the subject at hand.


Like was said before, the premise of Hell was created by God Himself, not Satan. Satan was actually cast into Hell. Therefore, he had no control on what Hell would look like.

And the reason why the devil punish people is because we are God's creation. Remember, we were created in 'His' image, so therefore, any of us going to Hell would incite anger towards His divine creation. Since they can not harm God, they would thus put all their anger towards any lost soul who gets banished to Hell. It is a way to 'get back at God', so to speak.

Remember though, that God would rather see you in heaven than hell. It is therefore that Jesus sacrificed Himself for humanity, so that we would get eternal life. He actually feels very bad for anyone who strays to the path of damnation. But he has no control over people's actions due to our free will.

Why wouldn't the devil praise anyone for following him? Well for one, if you know the devil, you'd realize he is sometimes called the 'big deceiver'. Promising you riches on earth, but giving you damnation in Hell. It's not like it's a race that whomever gets the most souls win. Rather, it is his challenge on how many souls he can take away from God and Heaven. It is his version of 'payback', since he knows that God suffers and feels sorry for every 'child' He loses (remember, we are also referred to as "God's Children". So don't expect any praises or high-fives from the devil for following him....he is in it for his pleasure, not yours.

It is also known that the devil and God do talk to each other. I wouldn't say that they are in 'cahoots', but it is a balanced system. I believe God, being the all powerfull creator would have no problem of just doing away with Hell and evil altogether. But without evil, we would have no choice but be slaves to the good. In order to uphold the free will, there must be a good and bad. In other words, Hell needs to continue to exist for us to always have a choice.

point well made, i like that view of it^

bump for big worm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thighs

you cant prove an opinion wrong when its based on a BELIEF.

---

how can you?
there is something out there, not sure what it is, but everything started up somehow. it may be god, or evolution, no one really knows, religion is really based on opinions and beliefs. all your surroundings have a big influence on how you take the matter, which is how you have the beliefs that you got.

for me, i live my life the way i see "god" would want me too. not the way someone else says i should. just be true to yourself and the ones around you. don't be following what someone else says you should.

well the preacher says if i smoke weed, i'm going to hell. well, it wasn't exactly "man made" so why would it be wrong? cause it fucks you up and gives you the munchies? "God" had it here when we came along, so whats the points of destroying one of his creations? how do we know "god" did put it here for us to use (and abuse) to see things in a different perspective that we otherwise would not have seen?:2cents:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tran

well the preacher says if i smoke weed, i'm going to hell. well, it wasn't exactly "man made" so why would it be wrong? cause it fucks you up and gives you the munchies? "God" had it here when we came along, so whats the points of destroying one of his creations? how do we know "god" did put it here for us to use (and abuse) to see things in a different perspective that we otherwise would not have seen?:2cents:

---

Haha, repped!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

...

---

Come on dude where you at?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maniacurabus06

bump for big worm.

---

School started back...less time for games.

Mania, in response to your post, but none of the others ppls, for some of them are so stupid I almost have reason to convert to Darwinism, by swearing some of you must have a monkey as a mother.

We've summed up a few things now, we now know that your a confirmed Agnostic, which makes you only half as dumb as the Atheist kids.

Being Agnostic is just a lazy mans excuse. It's basically saying, "I give up on finding the answer, I'll just sit here on my ass, and let the answer come to me."

You're a typical Agnostic, you believe in something, just unsure of what, so you kick in with cliche theological noncognitism, by denouncing religion in it's entirety, based on the fact that you cant make up your mind.

So unless God comes do you directly, you're never going to believe anything...right?

Two thirds of the worlds population have the same view of creationism and a belief in the monotheistic God of Abraham. Sure, they all have their "crazys" and many of them are lost in translation, but the overall view is there.

So considering the majority, do you really think by posting a thred insulting religions, one of which you will choose one day, is a good idea?? You're never going to convert any knowledgeable Christian, Jew, or Muslim. For they have a religion, they have seen or experienced what you long to have...giving them reason to their faith. So really, is there any point in being an Agnostic leader? The only people you're even entitled to convert, or make follow are the uneducated sheep and Athiest.

Most nontheistic people still believe in some sort of meaning of life, basically good vs. evil. Take Buddhish, or Ayyavazhi beliefs for example. You have to draw the line somewhere, what I'm trying to determine is where you line is, if any.

And for the record, It's not that others are unable to "hang" with you in the stupid internet discussions, It's you that often results to childish insults or comments as a defense when being cornered in a conversation, causing others to give up, to save themselves the time, and insults.

If your going to debate, debate with some knowledge, don't belittle all who disagree. God knows, some of these kids on IA could use some knowledge.

example of childish remark:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maniacurabus06

The Maniac's Two Commandments.
I. Fuck all commandments
II. Fuck you

---

You're obviously a leader, but I disagree with the way you're attempting to lead, and where you're attempting to lead the one's that follow.
(Especially, considering you don't know yourself.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

No offense man, but thats not at all what the Bible says. It states that if you believe in Jesus and believe he is God's Son and our Messiah. Then You will have eternal life.

---

added note: Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah, but not the son of God. They don't believe in the Trinity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

The Ten Commandments are just a list of rules to follow to keep your life in line. Most governments are based off these rules. Plus its not that hard to follow them. Dont murder, dont steal, dont commit adultry, and dont have any false gods before the one true God. I dont think this is a way of controling people. These are really just good basic rules to live by in any society. But it also states that our God is a forgiving God. Not like a magical Genie, but if you truely repent of your sins, then God will forgive you no matter what.

---

....and Judaism was founded based on God's covenant with the Jews and the Ten Commandments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qwick

The 10 commandments are:

1) I am the Lord thy God.



Ok, so he is boastful….not a good start.



2) Thou shalt have no other gods besides me



So he is also jealous……that’s kind of a pity/childish HUMAN emotion for a “GOD” don’t you think



3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.



God Damn it this one always gets me……I guess I’m going to hell now, see you guys later.

.....................

---

An attempt to help open qwik's eyes...It's not just the Christians hommie. Christians aren't the only one's that believe in the Ten Commandments, they are also written in the Torah. If you mocked the words of the Torah, like you did with your blasphemous post of the Ten Commandments in Israel, you would most likley be beaten to death. Same goes for Islam, if you were anywhere in the middle east and mocked the words of Jesus, or the prophet Mohamed, you would most likely be killed. So laugh it out while you can you pedantic fool. Religion is not a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

...

---

Bravo!

BIG WORM, you have now gained some respect. Because not only are you somewhat of a smartass but you're clearly not as stupid as a lot of IA members. There's really no need to continue(Although I could)... we pretty much know one anothers' point of view on this.

:goodjob: Good job, dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

added note: Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah, but not the son of God. They don't believe in the Trinity.

....and Judaism was founded based on God's covenant with the Jews and the Ten Commandments.

An attempt to help open qwik's eyes...It's not just the Christians hommie. Christians aren't the only one's that believe in the Ten Commandments, they are also written in the Torah. If you mocked the words of the Torah, like you did with your blasphemous post of the Ten Commandments in Israel, you would most likley be beaten to death. Same goes for Islam, if you were anywhere in the middle east and mocked the words of Jesus, or the prophet Mohamed, you would most likely be killed. So laugh it out while you can you pedantic fool. Religion is not a joke.

---

Who is laughing. I made no Joke and Im not laughing. Nor did I bash the Ten Commandments, but the gentleman i replied to was saying basically that if you follow the Ten Commandments then you are going to heaven and if you dont follow them then you are going to hell. That is just simply not the case, especially in Christianity. First off God is forgiving and will forgive you if you do break these Commandments. (of course you have to show actual remorse when you ask for forgivness.) I am in no way saying go out and break the commandments. I just believe that they are rules for you to live by. But What did Jesus say to the theif that was on the cross next to him before they died. He forgave him, even though he was a thief. He broke one of the commandments by stealing. But he saw the wrong in his ways and how awsome Jesus was for staying there on the Cross for Mankind. I was just shedding light on one fact that Christianity is based on more than just the Ten Commandments. If you would like to discuss other bits of the Bible I am more than willing. I cannot tell you about Muslims although i have done a good bit of research about their religion. I can only tell you what I believe. I dont believe in what Muslims believe, nor do I believe what mormons believe, although some of our beliefs do share some commonalities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maniacurabus06

You believe this God created us through a series of highly elaborate near impossibly random series of events?

---

maybe, maybe not. but at the same time you believe we just popped into existence suddenly bc of a similar near impossible random series of events?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

Who is laughing. I made no Joke and Im not laughing. Nor did I bash the Ten Commandments, but the gentleman i replied to was saying basically that if you follow the Ten Commandments then you are going to heaven and if you dont follow them then you are going to hell. That is just simply not the case, especially in Christianity. First off God is forgiving and will forgive you if you do break these Commandments. (of course you have to show actual remorse when you ask for forgivness.) I am in no way saying go out and break the commandments. I just believe that they are rules for you to live by. But What did Jesus say to the theif that was on the cross next to him before they died. He forgave him, even though he was a thief. He broke one of the commandments by stealing. But he saw the wrong in his ways and how awsome Jesus was for staying there on the Cross for Mankind. I was just shedding light on one fact that Christianity is based on more than just the Ten Commandments. If you would like to discuss other bits of the Bible I am more than willing. I cannot tell you about Muslims although i have done a good bit of research about their religion. I can only tell you what I believe. I dont believe in what Muslims believe, nor do I believe what mormons believe, although some of our beliefs do share some commonalities.

---

I should clarify,
I was agreeing with you post,
That's why I quoted it.
I was adding to to it and directing the post towards "Qwik"


fixed....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

An attempt to help open qwik's eyes...It's not just the Christians hommie. Christians aren't the only one's that believe in the Ten Commandments, they are also written in the Torah. If you mocked the words of the Torah, like you did with your blasphemous post of the Ten Commandments in Israel, you would most likley be beaten to death. Same goes for Islam, if you were anywhere in the middle east and mocked the words of Jesus, or the prophet Mohamed, you would most likely be killed. So laugh it out while you can you pedantic fool. Religion is not a joke.

---

I agree if I did live over in the Middle East I would most likely be killed for the beliefs I have here in the United States. Of course if I would have grown up over there I am willing to bet that my views on this subject would be drastically different, due to the fact that they them selves are so close minded that no other alternative to their religion is tolerated.



Religion may or may not be a joke to you, but to me it is and I have the right to think that, just as you have the right to choose to believe in a religion. I also realize that the 10 commandments are part of other religions aside from just Christianity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shagwAg3n

maybe, maybe not. but at the same time you believe we just popped into existence suddenly bc of a similar near impossible random series of events?

---

Actually I don't think that we just popped into existence and started clubbin', using drugs, starting wars, ect ect.
I'm not dull. But I wil say that evolution and the start of life is still something I'm doing research on. Besides the simple - microorganism evolving into a more complex organism and that organism evolving into a multi celled organism and so on... I want to learn everything I can about it.

I think it's an interesting topic and both anti/religious people should study. Reading actual documents about it with hardcore details is a lot better than reading a quick story book about how it tries to explain that life was created in a time frame that isn't even long enough for my facial hair to grow. But for some divine being 6 days is all it took to create different kinds of animals, oxygen & hydrogen, a weather system, natural phenomena, solar systems, super novas, ect. etc.

He can create all of that in a matter of days. Yet he can't help out people in need or create a world where there is no evil, murder and where everyone can live with no worries and no pain? Oh wait, that's what heaven is for. But to get there you have to kiss his ass and donate 10% of your hard earned money to an organization that promises and promises yet you never recieve anything in return. Funny how that works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

I should clarify,
I was agreeing with you post,
That's why I quoted it.
I was adding to to it and directing the post towards "Qwik"


fixed....

---

Ohh ok i see what you did now, lol. I was thinking, where was I laughing at the ten commandments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maniacurabus06

Actually I don't think that we just popped into existence and started clubbin', using drugs, starting wars, ect ect.
I'm not dull. But I wil say that evolution and the start of life is still something I'm doing research on. Besides the simple - microorganism evolving into a more complex organism and that organism evolving into a multi celled organism and so on... I want to learn everything I can about it.

I think it's an interesting topic and both anti/religious people should study. Reading actual documents about it with hardcore details is a lot better than reading a quick story book about how it tries to explain that life was created in a time frame that isn't even long enough for my facial hair to grow. But for some divine being 6 days is all it took to create different kinds of animals, oxygen & hydrogen, a weather system, natural phenomena, solar systems, super novas, ect. etc.

He can create all of that in a matter of days. Yet he can't help out people in need or create a world where there is no evil, murder and where everyone can live with no worries and no pain? Oh wait, that's what heaven is for. But to get there you have to kiss his ass and donate 10% of your hard earned money to an organization that promises and promises yet you never receive anything in return. Funny how that works.

---

You need to get off of the whole 6 days thing. Yes the first verse of the Bible says this, did you get any further than that? Also in the Bible it states that God does not live under our "time." He doesn't live on earth where the world rotates completely around in a 24 hour period. So therefor 1 day to him is not 24 hours like it is to us. There is one verse, i am looking for it now, but cant find it right this sec..........that states that a day to God is like 77,000 days to us. (don't direct quote me, i will post the verse later when i find it.) So yes it says God created the earth in 6 days, but his days are not the same. So Yes those days could have spanned over years in time.

Also if you want a world with no evil in it, then why even have a world to begin with. If you didn't have the choice of free will, then we would all just be some mindless robots. The Devil runs the earth till Jesus comes back. Thats why we have evil in the world.

Let me ask you a question. You say you don't want to base your belief's on faith alone. I can understand that. For someone to have faith in anything they need to have proof that it exists......Maybe you haven't seen that proof yet, and I would be skeptical as well. However to believe in evolution you have to have faith in it. There is no proven fact that evolution happened. I find it a lot easier to believe God created Earth and everything else, than there was a ball of matter than exploded and over millions of years everything in our world fell into place. Our Ecosystems, the way that plants use carbon dioxide but put out Oxygen, and we are the opposite.........How everything in our environment coincides so well. This is just one example, but look at the world around you and you want to tell me that all this happened by chance.

Sir Fred Hoyle said that ... the origin of life ... the information content of the higher forms of life is represented by the number 1040 000 - representing the specificity with which some 2,000 genes, each of which might be chosen from 1020 nucleotide sequences of the appropriate length .... The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that `a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein'. " (Hoyle, F., in "Hoyle on evolution," Nature, Vol. 294, 12 November 1981, p.105).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

You need to get off of the whole 6 days thing. Yes the first verse of the Bible says this, did you get any further than that? Also in the Bible it states that God does not live under our "time." He doesn't live on earth where the world rotates completely around in a 24 hour period. So therefor 1 day to him is not 24 hours like it is to us. There is one verse, i am looking for it now, but cant find it right this sec..........that states that a day to God is like 77,000 days to us. (don't direct quote me, i will post the verse later when i find it.) So yes it says God created the earth in 6 days, but his days are not the same. So Yes those days could have spanned over years in time.

---

I've read a lot more, skippy.
And from my understanding a day for God is 1,000 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

Also if you want a world with no evil in it, then why even have a world to begin with. If you didn't have the choice of free will, then we would all just be some mindless robots. The Devil runs the earth till Jesus comes back. Thats why we have evil in the world.

---

Do you also believe that evil sprits hangout in our upper atmosphere?

Are animales evil too because of lucifer? Or are they just doing what their instincts are telling 'em to?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

Let me ask you a question. You say you don't want to base your belief's on faith alone. I can understand that. For someone to have faith in anything they need to have proof that it exists......Maybe you haven't seen that proof yet, and I would be skeptical as well. However to believe in evolution you have to have faith in it. There is no proven fact that evolution happened. I find it a lot easier to believe God created Earth and everything else, than there was a ball of matter than exploded and over millions of years everything in our world fell into place. Our Ecosystems, the way that plants use carbon dioxide but put out Oxygen, and we are the opposite.........How everything in our environment coincides so well. This is just one example, but look at the world around you and you want to tell me that all this happened by chance.

---

Actually Mr. Hatch there is proof of evoultion out there. I've read on some experiments that some scientists are conducting. They're doing something with the dna on some bird(forgot the name, but will look for it later) and noticed that the embryo changes. The bird during the process grows teeth, similier to a raptors'. Another one also grew feathers, or what looked to be feathers.

This experiment or act of devolution should be proof that our current birds do have some characteristics very simlier to dinosaurs. Not saying they came straight out of the Jurassic period but im sure this should be some nice evidence that can back up evolution.

And if you would like to continue with me on this discussion could you please post up something new that I've not already replied to once in the past? And something new like new data and new information that would actually give me a chance to use my mighty brain powa! Pretty please...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99hatch

Sir Fred Hoyle said that ... the origin of life ... the information content of the higher forms of life is represented by the number 1040 000 - representing the specificity with which some 2,000 genes, each of which might be chosen from 1020 nucleotide sequences of the appropriate length .... The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that `a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein'. " (Hoyle, F., in "Hoyle on evolution," Nature, Vol. 294, 12 November 1981, p.105).

---

For one thing, evolution covers what life does after it exists. The origin of life is something else.

Also, what's wrong with your post is that you can't really calculate the probability of something occurring after it's occurred. And you certainly can't calculate the probability that beings able to calculate would occur, because if they didn't, you wouldn't be there to do it. Just because the chances of this planet... being at our current location - odds are indeed fucking insane! But, ask that dude to calculate the mathematical probability of God existing. It wouldn't be possible...

The real problem is that we don't have good priors. Given what we know about the universe, we might compute that the probability of all of this happening by chance is small. But we don't know very much. It might be that if we knew more, we would see that intelligent life was virtually inevitable.

And given that we exist, that should raise our priors regarding the overall likelihood. If you find a fly in your soup, it raises the probability that there will be more flies, even if your original estimate was that the probability of a fly was very low.

So to add to my evolution talk - adaptation is the first stage of evolution, without organisms adapting to their environment we wouldn't have formed. Yes I believe this, and if you believe that the way we were created was by Adam and Eve and the inner breeding of Noah and his family than you're too deep into the misconceptions of the bible. And my babbling is just as pointless as the stories in the bible. I can't change your mind but I hope you agree with me that this is entertaining and that learning new things and debating is a great way to get your brain pumpin'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qwick

I agree if I did live over in the Middle East I would most likely be killed for the beliefs I have here in the United States. Of course if I would have grown up over there I am willing to bet that my views on this subject would be drastically different, due to the fact that they them selves are so close minded that no other alternative to their religion is tolerated.



Religion may or may not be a joke to you, but to me it is and I have the right to think that, just as you have the right to choose to believe in a religion. I also realize that the 10 commandments are part of other religions aside from just Christianity.

---

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIA, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIA, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)

---

Good question man.

Just because I don’t believe in a religion doesn’t mean I’m heartless. I understand that people are afraid of death, if these scenarios should happen to me I would comfort who ever is dying to the best of my ability. If Im asked by the dying person “what do you think will happen to me?” I would first ask them what they believe and then base my answer off of their response.





Honestly no one on Earth can correctly and indefinitely answer the question “what is gonna happen to me when I die?” Because none of us knows for sure. If there is a God I hope he understands what has happened in my life to make me not believe in him, and can find the compassion to forgive me. If it turns out that there realy isnt a God well then, “I told you so” is really all that’s left to say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIAC, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)

---

Both of my parents are very religious. So if they believe they are going to heaven and will be in a better place then I'll comfort them until they pass on. I won't sit there and tell them that their hopes of reaching heaven is ludicrous. I won't be a complete cold hearted person... I just don't like religion.

Does that make me a bad guy? No... I have my own opinion about it just like you have yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG WORM

(All whom are non religious, Atheist, Agnostic...Please take the time to answer this.)

Everyone has their doubts about religion from time to time. But for one to mock one's religion openly, is equivalent to putting down a mans wife in public. It's not right, nor is it progression any any form.

Secondly, This is a question that goes out to all that are NOT Religious. Sure all normal people have their doubts religion, but how does someone that's not religious go about explaining themselves to a loved one on their death bed?
Someone you care for deeply, your mother or father.
Do you challenge them like you do me?
Do you mock them for having religion?
Or if they have no religion, do you comfort them by telling them that the afterlife is false?

...and if it's not that their going to hell for trusting in you?

Or lets say that the girl of you dreams, your high school sweetheart, is taking her last breaths, she's given 24 hours to live. She is unsure of her thoughts about religion, but wants to get it right before she dies. She looks into your eyes for advise, answers, and comfort. You, (MANIA, QWICK) have the option to say or do whatever you please at this moment. No one is around. It's just you and her. What does you conscience tell you to do?

(this is a very likely situation, if you haven't had someone extremely close to you pass yet, you definitely will.)

---

When my extremely religious grandfather passed right next to me, of course I didn't say "Well, you're goin nowhere sucka!" I don't openly challenge religious people because I understand the comfort it offers for them. I must say the talk I had with my parents about me refusing to attend church anymore was extremely awkward, but they were accepting of it. Honestly when I'm on my death bed, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to say if I'm told I'm going to a better place. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

When it all comes down to is trying to argue with faith.

Good luck.

Do you believe in the periodic table of elements?
yes

Do you believe in Evolution?
yes

Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory?
No, I have done much research on it and there are so many flaws in the theory its not even funny, the way they tried to prove it is just as flawed as Christians trying to prove God using the Bible. Plus it was invented by a Roman Catholic priest.

"So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundaries or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" - Stephen Hawking

If the universe was created by god, and god as always existed; then why can't the universe have always existed, then what place for a god? None.

Do you believe in the Universe?
yes

I am an agnostic atheist.

Agnostic = w/o knowledge. I am agnostic about the existence of a supreme entity (both pantheistic or personal). Anyone who has knowledge about either existence or non-existence is either super super smart, or totally crazy/dumbass.

I am an atheist (w/o god) since I don't believe in a god. I am 100% atheist when it comes to the god of Abraham. Its not denying a god, its just not believing.

I consider myself having the same belief as Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, they are an agnostic atheists like myself. Its just the most logical position.

If you are a dedicated Christian, Muslim, or Jew I don't see how in earth you can believe in heaven/hell made for humans and believe in evolution at the same time.
If you believe in evolution and believe in the afterlife answer me this:
Where in the evolutionary process did your god decide to make an afterlife for a type of creature? If evolution is true, do monkeys go to heaven? How about rats? Do cockroaches go to heaven? What about aliens? And here it is: Does a single blade of grass goes to heaven/hell based on how good that blade of grass was in it's life?

If you are a dedicated Christian/Jew, why do you care so much about a god that would tell a father to sacrifice his son, sacrifice animals, allow you to sell your daughter into slavery? If he is so egotistic and narcissistic, why give a fuck about that god? Why does a so called benevolent god act to malevolently?

Why does your god look over an airliner crashing into Hudson River yet turn it's back on the 80 million people who died in WW2 and such. Why did your god allow the engines of the flight 1549 flameout in the first place?

Do you believe Jesus was the son of god and Mary had a virgin birth? Here's my argument, try to disprove it Christians without saying "because God did it". A geneticist can't be a full on Christian if they paid attention in school.
A man has an X and a Y chromosome. The Y chromosome comes from the father. The X from the mother. The Y can ONLY come from the father. If Mary did have a virgin birth, Jesus would have an XX set of chromosomes, making Jesus FEMALE!!! If you say "God must have put his Y chromosome in there." If that has happened, then that must mean your god is homo sapien. If your god is homo sapien, then answer me why is your god a homo sapien and not a homo erectus, homo ergaster, homo neanderthalensis, or even a tree. Why isnt your god a tree? If your god was a homo sapien, then how come your god can exist before the evolutionary process produced a homo sapien? If you say "because he choose that speicies" then answer the above question about why isnt your god a tree or homo erectus. If you have no good answer for that and you still believe in Jesus's virgin birth, then you must not believe in evolution.

Does Adam and Eve have bellybuttons?

Please explain why your god has a better chance of existing than an invisible pink unicorn?

I am agnostic about the invisible pink unicorn, I cant prove or disprove it.
I have faith that its pink, but one could say they KNOW it's invisible because they can't see it.

One could believe that 100 million light years away there is a very large asteroid that has a large and detailed crater formation that looks EXACTLY like Barack Obama. But the crater formation is on the other side than facing Earth. PLEASE DISPROVE OR PROVE THAT!!!

See, its just as silly as all major religions. Why waste your time with religion, one doesn't need religion to have morals and ethics, one just need's their brain. Plus like half of the 10 Commandments are about God, who wants to waste their life caring about a narcissistic whiny god who acts like a toddler?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zimabog

Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory?
No, I have done much research on it and there are so many flaws in the theory its not even funny, the way they tried to prove it is just as flawed as Christians trying to prove God using the Bible. Plus it was invented by a Roman Catholic priest.

---

I agree with you on this to a certain extent. But you comparing it to the God that is mentioned in the bible is just too funny for me to ignore. I've only done so much research on it myself. And pretty much haven't found anything that could prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

Only thing we can say is that; everything has to begin somehow - and you have to be pretty stubborn to think otherwise. The universe had a beginning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zimabog

"So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundaries or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?" - Stephen Hawking

If the universe was created by god, and god as always existed; then why can't the universe have always existed, then what place for a god? None.

---

Bottom line is this:

God did NOT create this universe.
God did NOT create man.
God did NOT create existence.

Anyone who wants argue this simply can NOT... without using some sort of excuse.

The rest of your post was pretty much on point though. Very impressive... :goodjob:

Quote:

---

Only thing we can say is that; everything has to begin somehow - and you have to be pretty stubborn to think otherwise. The universe had a beginning.

---

How do you logically assume the universe had a birth?