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[QUOTE=admin]That's what I can't figure it out either. Ok person A he is a free thinker, but he do a lot of kind things..good deeds ect ect...the best person you ever think of. Person B is a christian..he do the opposite of what the person a does.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruah_23
Does that mean both parties will go to hell??
It's all a matter of perception and belief. What works for you works for you, what works for me works for me. I try to lead a good life, I have christian morals, but I don't believe in god. I think everyone over analyzes everything and wants to know what everyone else believes so they can base their beliefs on that as well. If you life a bad life, you will more than likely be punished in some way, whether in this life or the next.
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Originally Posted by SwiftGTiRacer
you sure you are NOT a priest?
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Originally Posted by Sirk
not exactly what i would say, but you made alot of fucking sense
Strong believer of what goes around comes around.
I don't think priest has a lot of damn time to be posting on the internet..they have church to run and prayers to be said.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedM0nkey
The Bible clearly says in Romans 3:23 that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God
It also says that no man shall be saved by works alone
SO what that is saying is that yeah you may have great morals, and lead a good life, but if you do not believe and accept that Jesus Christ is your personal Lord and Savior and that He died on the cross and rose 3 days later to pay for your sin than you simply will not make it to heaven, you will go to hell.
People call it narrow-minded thinking that there is only one way to heaven, but narrow is the path that leads to the Lord and wide is the path that leads to destruction.
People that think all roads lead to heaven if you live a good life need to put that statement into perspective...It is like saying that all roads lead to the same place...if you believe that then next time you get stuck in traffic on 75-north trying to get home...just turn around and go home on 75-south, if your theory is correct than technically it should get you home just as fast.
One day ever knee will bow down and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, i'll just pray that anyone that reads this will be on the right side of their salvation when that time comes.
one more thing about being "saved"
if you are saved by accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and savior (which is the only way to get to heaven) then no, you do not have to pray for forgiveness after you sin to avoid hell, if you are truly saved then nothing you can do can take you out of your Father's hand. So it is sad to say that if a man lives a good life with good morals and is not a christian, and a christian lives a worse life, the man will go to hell and the christian will not. Many people don't put their faith in the Lord these days because there are so many christians that have the mindset that they are saved and don't have to worry anymore. It is true that they don't have to worry about hell, but the reason you are saved by the blood of the perfect sacrifice, Jesus Christ, is so that you can go to all the nations and tell them about Jesus.
If any of you would like to come hang out with me on a sunday or something, or just come check out First Baptist Church of Woodstock with me sometime just shoot me a pm.
if you kill yourself, you end up dead, just like if you were to die in a car wreck. there is no eternal damnation to it, imo. however, i do still think that for most circumstances, suicide is the cheap shot way out of life. ive been down in the dumps for extended periods of time and its beyond me how someone (in normal mind and health) could take their own life.
Actually, the commandment is 'Thou shalt not murder'.Quote:
Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300
Anyways, I'm kind of surprised everyone is viewing suicide through such a narrow lens.
You're all thinking of the depressed teen or the distraught businessman who's stock just hit a low and left him with nothing.
What about the 70 year old with a debilitating and chronically painful condition that's left him bedridden, rotting away from bedsores, unable to even shit or piss on his own, barely able to talk?
You think it's an unforgivable sin for this person to want to end his life, because his existence can only tenuously be called living?
This person, who could have done great things, good works throughout his entire life, wanting an extra-heavy dose of morphine so he can finally go to sleep forever and let the pain stop, will be condemned to eternal damnation in a lake of fire?
Give me a break.
I had a lot to say before I started reading this thread. By the time I got to the end, however, most of what I had to say has already been said. But here are just a few things I would like to add to all this.
The only thing that can keep you out of heaven is not accepting the Lord as your saviour and believing that he is your only hope for heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyPer50
First off it's murder not kill. And second the bible also says that hatred is the same as murder (1 John 3:15 KJV) and we've all hated/ strongly disliked someone or something in our lives so why worry about breaking that by killing yourself? We've all pretty much broken it already...Quote:
Originally Posted by ISAtlanta300
Once your saved your always saved. Being saved doesn't have anything to do with confessing your sins, it's about confessing the Lord Jesus (Romans 10: 9-10 KJV) It's about knowing that your a sinner and Christ is your only way to heaven. Believing and trusting in Him. Just because you commit another sin doesn't mean that you become unsaved, it just means that your human and your not perfect and can't live a perfect life. That's when confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness comes in (1 John 1:9 KJV). Once you are saved there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation.(John 10:27 -30 KJV) Not even killing yourself or others. The Lord will always forgive you if you ask Him too. This doesn't mean it's ok to go off and commit tons of sins and then go and ask to be forgiven. It just means that if we mess up that He will forgive us if we ask Him.Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdodgeŽ
Amen to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
Once again Amen!Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenK
Well, your acts can't save you or damn you to hell. Jesus Christ is the only thing that can save you. So if you are saved, and then find yourself is a situation in which you take your own life, you are stilled saved, you just have a whole lot of explaining to do to the big man when you walk up to him in heaven
Suicide is stupid regardless of what perspective you take(religious or moral)... Be a fucking man(or woman) and face life like the rest of us. All or most of us have had our good and bad times... our break ups... lost jobs... times when we questioned our direction in life...
I hate especially when young people do it... without even really experiencing what life has to offer. I've dealt with some fucked up things in my life, but never once during that time have i contemplated suicide.
I guess in the end suicide is just another example of darwinism at it's finest... Loaded topic though.
p.s. i <3 jared
I've heard you would goto hell because you commited a sin and you cant ask for forgiviness because yoru dead. Just what I've heard.
It really all depends on what religion the person is. Different people believe different ways and different religions teach different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by R1craze
We need a test subject or something... somebody try it and tell us what happens.
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Originally Posted by CRAMERIZKING
Go for it. Have fun. I want a detailed report about it... :tongue:
Suicide is the easy way out of life. People that make these choices are selfish people. It hurts me to hear about someone ending their own life. I lost 3 friends to suicide when I was in high school....still today I will NEVER know why the left......
I'd be down for a near death experience in the name of science.
Wait but wasn't it brought up before that suicide is unforgivable because you are killing something in gods image? Committing a murder is no different is it not... well I guess after you commit a murder you can repent where as after someone commits suicide they cannot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftGTiRacer
I think it's a selfish and pussy thing to do, but some people who are spending their lives in extraordinary amounts of pain deserve to be able to choose when they want to go. (an example here would be the people who jumped out of the twin towers after they were hit. They jumped to their death rather than burn to death in agony I feel they should be forgiven, but following the rules of the bible they technically committed suicide.)
There are so many religious beliefs and takes on the afterlife that it's not even worth worrying about anymore. I used to be a catholic... now a days I dont really believe in anything. Lead a clean true life and youll have nothing to worry about in the end... plus you wont feel like dick when you're on your deathbed and look back on your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by estis fatuus
I really dont think you should base the "consequences" for suicide on one religions reachings... In the end... youll see what happens.
I dont think kurt cobain killed himself. Even courtneys dad thinks SHE did it and even her private eye thinks she did. Sorry just a thought since we are talking about this.
Do you honestly believe that if you live a clean true life that you'll have nothing to worry about?!Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAMERIZKING
Some of the greatest people that ever lived were not Christians, therefore they are spending rest of eternity in a hot little place called Hell.
So please don't recommend to anyone else to wait till the end and see what happens, I don't even recommend that you take your own advice. I don't think you or anyone else would appreciate it if you waited until the end and woke up from your death bed in front of the Lord to be judged, and he handed you a one way ticket to spend eternity in Hell because you were never saved and His Son does not know you.
I feel sorry that you feel your way is the only correct way, I wish you would be more open minded, but that is not what this thread is about.
Honestly man youre going to tell me that every other religion is wrong? Just one religion(christianity) is the "right" religion to get into "heaven"? So the millions and millions of people in the world who follow other religions are just fucked? I severely doubt that. You have your opinion as i have mine. I am not comfortable with that fact that choosing a religion is like playing a fucking lottery number... and What about the scumbag child molesting priests and serial killers? They get preference over me because im not a christian?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
I believe there is a god... I am a damn good person... I'd give my fucking left arm to help a fellow man in need... but i dont follow the teachings of any single church... so that means im going to hell.
If that is the case, and i am sent to hell, i will gladly flip my maker off at the pearly gates because he sounds more like adolf fucking hitler than the kind loving god i was taught as a child to worship.
If this post offends anyone... i apologize... my original post wasnt meant to attack the christian religion... I was merely expressing my belief. If you want to hold that against me... fine... if i get banned as a result of this post... fine.. but im not going to sit here and let some asshole explain to me why i am ignorant and going to hell.
EDIT: This is the last i am going to post in or look at this thread. If you would like to reply feel free to pm me and we can have a wonderfully educational discourse about the birds and the bees and such.
yeah it is amazing that there is only one way to heaven, but that's the truth. It is sad that all these other people that follow other religions and do not believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior are going to Hell if they don't change.
Do some research on your religions, and how many have actual facts to back their religion, and you'll see that Christianity is the only way to get to Heaven. Hey we have it a lot easier than they did before Jesus was born. In the Old Testament you had to be near perfect to get into Heaven because Jesus had not yet come to take the punishment for all of mankind's sins.
Do some research on Josh McDowell, and his research on Christianity. He is a brilliant man and spent years debating AGAINST Christianity, and in all his research to try and disprove it, he realized that it was the only way to get to heaven.
Also do some research on Dr. Ergun Caner, a former Muslim, who knows the Koran, the Bible, and anything else like the back of his hand. He too came to the realization that Christianity, and Jesus Christ are the only way to Heaven.
What's sad is what you just posted. Later, QD.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
As a Jew, and therefore as someone who has a great deal more experience with the 'Old Testament', I can tell you with some authority that the concept of hell as you describe it didn't even exist. Only truly dastardly people were 'punished forever in eternal torment', whilst everyone else went to Gehenna, a sort of Purgatory where you were judged and spiritually purified by being forced to watch your life as you lived it, and what could have been. Once that happened (some took longer than others, but 11 months is the maximum), the pure fragment of your spirit ascended to heaven. Hell as you describe it is a useful tool for frightening and subjugating people into believing what you do. Which is, of course, why it was created.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
Now you get to be embarassed because a Jewish Athiest knows more about religious historical context than you. Now imagine what else you could possibly be wrong about. How about 'a big fucking truckload' for 500, Alex.
DING DING DING, Double Jeopardy!
ahhh I do love all of this great conversation, but i'll just say it for the record:
In the end, to be blunt, Anyone who believes Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior, died on the cross for their sins, and rose 3 days later to Heaven....will go to Heaven....everyone else will be eternally seperated from God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
QD, what's sad is that you've probably never even done any research on Jesus Christ and Christianity.
And to the Jewish Athiest, so what you know more religious historical context about the Old Testament than I do...Jesus Christ fulfilled all of the prophecies from the Old Testament in the New Testament, and forgave me of all my past and future sins when I accepted Him as my Savior. I truthfully care about where you spend eternity, so I suggest you do some more research about Jesus Christ and put your Old Testament knowledge together with the New Testament and see what will really happen to you if you remain an athiest.
I'm not going to get my hopes up though because it is a commonly known fact that only 6% of adults get saved after their 18th Birthday.
Don't kid yourself. I have done far more objective, structured, and broad-based research into the Judeo-christian cosomology than you ever have, that much is obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
What you are trying to do now is deflect the issue. You spouted off some BS about Heaven being almost impossible to get in 'The Old Testament' because Jesus hadn't flown in to save our little red wagons yet, and I called you on it. Not only was it not difficult to get into at all, but Hell didn't even EXIST in the Old Testament. Gehenna is a different theological construct of afterlife altogether, and if you ask me, a far more preferable and superior notion of the way a kind, loving, caring God would treat those in the afterlife. Gehenna is, however, far less useful for subjugating and scaring people into converting. Historically, the Christian concept of Hell was used to oppress, forcibly convert, and exert power over ignorant masses.
What I think you should do now is tell me why you think you were so catastrophically wrong about the nature of the afterlife before Jesus came along and saved our shit from eternal damnation.
And we've met when? You know what I know about this how? I don't think you do know what I know and what I don't know. Just as a natural "Chrisitan," you judge to quickly. You have no idea that the Bible is factual. You are going by what you have been told. Faith is what guides you through your narrow life. Faith is not always fact. When you know me then you can judge me for what you see in me. But that would be un-"Christian"-like for you to not pre-judge someone. Later, QD.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
i was simply making an observation QD, because all you ever do is call people out on stuff, you never state what you know so until then I will assume you know nothing.
I'm not judging you, because it is not Christ-like to judge, it's not place, but the Lord's
Also, Malfeas99, I know that I am saved, and that my faith in Jesus Christ will get me into Heaven and keep me from hell. Read the New Testament and you will see that Hell is real, not just created to scare people into converting. Big deal you know a lot about the Old Testament and I do not, but that doesn't mean you are going to get into Heaven because you know all about it.
Once again you call me narrow-minded, and you call the path to heaven narrow, it states in the Bible that Narrow is the path to righteousness, and wide is the path to destruction...and honestly I don't care why I was wrong about the after-life before Jesus came along, because honestly it does not affect me and I have done no research on it. I know that today, if you reject Jesus Christ as your Savior and you die tonight, you will spend eternity in hell. If I were to die tonight, I would be spending eternity with Jesus in heaven
Well, here is where the assume phrase comes into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
No. Pre-judging is a requirement to be a "true Christian."Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
You really don't know that shit at all. That is what you've been taught to believe. You, as well as everyone else living right now, do not know what happens to anyone when you die. How do you know? Personal experience? You know someone that died, went to heaven for a while and came back and told you what happens? Hmmmm. Like I said,..this is all based on faith, not fact. Later, QD.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
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Originally Posted by 1zach4
One day you might come to the realization that using a facet of your religion (the bible) to somehow validate another facet of your religion (your concept of heaven, hell, and how you get there) is a logical fallacy of the highest order. It is called 'circular reasoning'.
I have no problem with your choice of religion, I think that religion fills a very healthy aspect of a lot of people's lives. I don't even care that you think I'm going to hell for not believing what you believe. However a) Don't pretend that your reasoning is in any way logical or rational, and b) Try and get a law passed to push your religious beliefs and you will become my enemy.
P.S. If you did not research on it, why did you make a statement about it, and try to pass it off like fact? Or even supposition? Or even ANYTHING that would indicate that you had ANY idea? Can you possibly imagine what it must be like if EVERYTHING you believe about religion, christianity, jesus, heaven, and hell is just like that? Man you'd be screwed. Then again, I must applaud you on the amount of cognitive dissonance necessary to stick this out.
I know i said i wouldnt post again... but you DO realize that a large marjority has yet be to confirmed? I mean i know theyve found like 20 different noah's arks on top of mountains according to the inquirer... but that doesnt really mean jesus existed or is going to be waiting for your ignorant ass when you get up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
Your faith is based up the words of others... there is a huge difference between faith and fact. I mean.. I had faith that the yankees would win the world series this year but they sure the hell suprised me.
You also realize that religion during the crusades was used to gain power or control in the gornment?
Anyway... i better get to church though. I hear that for every dollar you put in the basket you have a better chance of getting into heaven. Jesus likes lavishly built churches, money, and priests who molest children then preech to us about who goes to hell.
You are actually gonna use the inquirer to talk about noah's ark?
Faith in Jesus Christ is not comparable to faith in the New York Yankees
Do not hold me accountable for the misuse of my religion during the crusades.
and it clearly states that in order to be obedient to Jesus Christ you are supposed to give 10% of your gross income back to the church...10% is not much to ask when the Lord provides you with 100% of what you have.
lol i dont know... i hear if you remain faithful to the yankees you spend the rest of the eternity in a palace filled with virgins.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1zach4
how do i know jesus isnt using said money to fund a drug addiction of some sort. Its like those bums you see on the street of ny... give them a few bucks and all they do is blow it on a bottle of whiskey. So with that train of thinking i'd much rather donate to a non profit charity of some sort. At least then i know the money is going to something useful... and not feeding a drug and/or gambling addiction.
edit: ha if i wasnt going to hell before... im damn well going now. Might as well have a reason though... Gooooooood stuff. :)
You were having a half decent debate until this utterly ridiculous statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAMERIZKING
JESUS? JESUS? Using what money for what drugs? I think you probably meant the "church", maybe?
What "non profit" charity do you donate to? Are you saying then that PEOPLE that run those "charities" are somehow immune to fallacy somehow? How is that possible? In other words, you are so harsh on PEOPLE that run "churches" or attend them, yet you in the same breath trust in PEOPLE that run a so called "non profit" charity to do something extraordinary with your donation????? That my friend is an oxymoron.
You can't have it both ways. In one hand you keep saying that "church" is one thing because PEOPLE are this and that, then on the other hand you say that you would rather give to anything other than a church that is also run by PEOPLE. ????? What exactly is that makes the "PEOPLE" in that "non profit" organization any better or less apt to drugs, addictions, throwing away your money, molesting children, or any of the things you attribute to the "church"????
BTW, you do realize that many many "non profit" organizations are "non profit" labeled for tax purposes only? A great many of them do in fact make millions in "profits". The difference is that they can SPEND it in many ways that you or I couldn't and they pay no taxes on that money. I personally have seen a few "non profit" organizations that even have religious names to seem legit that are nothing more than fronts to launder money into someone's pockets w/o paying taxes. None of those I'm referring to EVER gave a dime to a needy person. So please be careful and don't think for a minute that simply because an organization has the monicker of "non profit" that A) they don't MAKE any money; B) they are designed to help anyone; and C) they are somehow immune to HUMAN fallacies because they are in fact made up of HUMANS too. ;)
In case you hadnt noticed i was just being a dick... I am sick and tired of this debate so i am no longer taking it seriously... My post was MEANT to piss people off... and end further discussion about that particular topic... and it HAD succeeded... until you brought it back up. I'd really appreciate if we could end the discussion here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
p.s. Had i been serious you have a few valid points... i won't get into my reasons about not donating anyway. But believe me... They are also valid.
My mistake then. I thought you were serious, hence my rebuttal. If you weren't, then I appologize.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAMERIZKING
There is no such thing as god. Kill your self if you wish, $hit just turns black either way.