Dis-arming of America

[BUGMAN]

Do OUR people believe that this is the greatest nation in the world? How many of you think that there's a better country to live in? IF you think there is another country out there that's better...why haven't you moved? You can get a plane ticket to nearly any location on earth for $1000 or less...and a passport is less money than that. Really! If you think that there's a better place to live, to raise your children, and you're still here, then do you REALLY think THAT place is better? Sure, the USA has it's problems...but I wouldn't trade any of them to be forced into living in another place. I won't get into the “whys” or drawbacks of other countries, but let's just say that if you're reading this, then you're still living here, and therefore you must feel that this is the greatest place on earth.



This IS the greatest place on earth, but that's a tough concept to grasp. On a more “local” scale, think about your city...it's probably a pretty good place to live, right? (Goes back to the “why haven't you moved yet” philosophy...lol!). Anyway, I'm sure that you probably feel somewhat secure in your home, in your neighborhood, in your city. Now, think for a moment...what is the VERY first thing that you would do if someone were to break into your home RIGHT NOW as you're reading this? I'm sure that fear would run through your body, and then adrenaline would rush through your veins as you reacted to the situation. Now...let's stop right here for a moment. Rewind....what do you think caused the (crook, thief, murderer...you don't know yet) to choose YOUR house to break in to? First off...for anyone to break into your house, chances are that you have SOMETHING that they want...and for whatever reason, in THEIR mind, your house or YOU have what they need. Do you have that little “protected by _______” sign in your yard? Is your house known for having an owner that “has weapons and will use them”? Chances are, probably not if they chose YOUR house. O.K...back to the break in. So, what do you do? Did you have your doors locked? Did you run to your closet and pull out your pistol, your rifle? Oh, you don't have any??? O.K...did you grab your baseball bat? Can you swing it? Did you pick up your phone and call 911? It sure is nice that the police are just a short call away, isn't it? What if the police tell you, “oh, I'm sorry...we've decided to bring all of our officers back to the precinct...you're on your own”...what would you do? (back to the break-in shortly)

Think about it, just what would happen to your beautiful and peaceful little city if the cops weren't there? Would it stay beautiful and peaceful for long? A city without police would turn to **** pretty quickly! It wouldn't be long before some “ring leader” formed a “gang” and started breaking into houses, businesses, etc...taking money, vehicles, property...and killing innocent people. So, it's pretty “safe” to say that your beautiful and peaceful little city stays that way because you have a “police force” thats there to protect you.

Right?

What is the “police force” that protects this country? This world? I'm sure that you can see where I'm going with this...your United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Reserve components are here to protect this country. Again, what about the world? Well, there is the United Nations...where our soldiers, along with the soldiers of other nations, work together to ensure “world security”. The problem is...other nations' soldiers or “police force” stay in their “precinct”. We, the United States, is the only country that has bases spread across the globe. Can you think of any bases here in the US that are “foreign”? Other countries don't have bases in numerous countries across the world. WE are the “police force” that is there when a neighboring country calls 911. That's right, YOUR United States Military serves and protects the entire world.



We live in THE best country in the world, but please grasp this concept...did you know that Iraq has a higher voting rate per person than the United States? That's right...in America roughly 20% of the adult population will determine the winner of the presidential election. In Iraq, roughly 60-70% of the adult population will determine the same. And guess what, in Iraq you risk YOUR LIFE to go vote. Here, 80% of our adult population thinks that it's too much of a bother. I know, this sounds like a “ploy” to ask you to vote...it's not. This is simply my concern with our upcoming elections. Because of the lack uneducated voters, we're on the verge of heading down a “police-less” street. One of our presidential candidates plans to DISARM the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! This is a very, very, real concern! This candidate says that he will stop spending dollars on the defense of our nation, that he will get rid of our nuclear arsenal. My question is this...WHY? My request to you is to DO YOUR RESEARCH before you vote.



OUR house (the United States) is unlocked. Fortunately, we've always had the “protected by _____” signs up, and we've always been known for protecting ourselves and our neighbors. Yes, we've had some intruders break into our house, but our “police force” has always been there when 911 was called.



This candidate doesn't agree with us going into this war.

For those of you who wonder why we went to war, I can only explain it this way:

Across the street, you see a rogue break into your neighbors house, (obviously he was breaking the “law”) taking your neighbor's property, killing his wife and children. This person has a “gang” of people helping him and you call 911. Unfortunately, this has already happened to many neighborhoods already...and the rogue has a “following” that's working for the same cause. As a matter of fact, the entire city is in chaos already...that 911 call failed to go through. The United Nations has rules against what the rogue has done, but they've never enforced them. It was up to the “worlds police force” to step in and enforce these rules, these laws. We are at war for this reason. Do we WANT to be there? No. The same way that the police officer that comes to your house when you call 911 doesn't WANT to be put into an unknown, dangerous situation where he could be killed. But guess what, he does it because he believes in what he's doing, and why he's doing it. He'll gladly put his life in harm's way to protect you, even though he doesn't know you.



Just because we don't KNOW our world neighbors doesn't mean that we should let them be killed by a ruthless dictator.



Back to your break-in...I hope that you can understand the importance of your police force (both locally and nationally). I hope that you get that insecure feeling, that “wake up call” every now and then to remind you that it IS important to have an ARMED force here in your country. Right now, there is an operator at the desk ready to handle your 911 call...will there be someone there if Obama gets voted into office? Think about it.

http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/20...disarm-america

[Thighs]

i think im gonna slap the next person of voting age that complains about a candidate but doesnt vote.

[Spektrewing386]

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


















Stop watching Fox.

[TIGERJC]

I bet you found this on streetcarforums.com (fox news car forum). I don't agree with all of Obama's plans, but I do think he has a better foreign policy plan (not by much to me) than MCcain. Sorry but I don't want my country dealing with the rest of the world's problems all the time, while at the same time forgetting to fix the problems at home first.

[Spektrewing386]

yeah, since the iraq war was built upon a series of manufactured evidence, lies, secret agendas, and deception... its not really a good thing right now.




We once fought against an empire, now we enforce it.

[ahmonrah]

yeah, since the iraq war was built upon a series of manufactured evidence, lies, secret agendas, and deception... its not really a good thing right now.

QFT

[BUGMAN]

I agree with the war somewhat and I know something needed to be done but like stated above, we have enough problems over here that need to be fixed.

Just like the starving children commercials you see on TV. Now I am no tight wod and donate probably well over 10k a year to charities but not a penny of it goes over seas.

As far as dis-arming America... Well it would take probably longer than I am going to live to accomplish that so I don't see any major threats there.

I do support our troops and love my firearms but that is not why I posted this. I just put it up simply for a discussion and debate. Thought it may be good material for a good one.

[disrupt]

Do OUR people believe that this is the greatest nation in the world? How many of you think that there's a better country to live in? IF you think there is another country out there that's better...why haven't you moved? You can get a plane ticket to nearly any location on earth for $1000 or less...and a passport is less money than that. Really! If you think that there's a better place to live, to raise your children, and you're still here, then do you REALLY think THAT place is better? Sure, the USA has it's problems...but I wouldn't trade any of them to be forced into living in another place. I won't get into the “whys” or drawbacks of other countries, but let's just say that if you're reading this, then you're still living here, and therefore you must feel that this is the greatest place on earth.



This IS the greatest place on earth, but that's a tough concept to grasp. On a more “local” scale, think about your city...it's probably a pretty good place to live, right? (Goes back to the “why haven't you moved yet” philosophy...lol!). Anyway, I'm sure that you probably feel somewhat secure in your home, in your neighborhood, in your city. Now, think for a moment...what is the VERY first thing that you would do if someone were to break into your home RIGHT NOW as you're reading this? I'm sure that fear would run through your body, and then adrenaline would rush through your veins as you reacted to the situation. Now...let's stop right here for a moment. Rewind....what do you think caused the (crook, thief, murderer...you don't know yet) to choose YOUR house to break in to? First off...for anyone to break into your house, chances are that you have SOMETHING that they want...and for whatever reason, in THEIR mind, your house or YOU have what they need. Do you have that little “protected by _______” sign in your yard? Is your house known for having an owner that “has weapons and will use them”? Chances are, probably not if they chose YOUR house. O.K...back to the break in. So, what do you do? Did you have your doors locked? Did you run to your closet and pull out your pistol, your rifle? Oh, you don't have any??? O.K...did you grab your baseball bat? Can you swing it? Did you pick up your phone and call 911? It sure is nice that the police are just a short call away, isn't it? What if the police tell you, “oh, I'm sorry...we've decided to bring all of our officers back to the precinct...you're on your own”...what would you do? (back to the break-in shortly)

Think about it, just what would happen to your beautiful and peaceful little city if the cops weren't there? Would it stay beautiful and peaceful for long? A city without police would turn to **** pretty quickly! It wouldn't be long before some “ring leader” formed a “gang” and started breaking into houses, businesses, etc...taking money, vehicles, property...and killing innocent people. So, it's pretty “safe” to say that your beautiful and peaceful little city stays that way because you have a “police force” thats there to protect you.

Right?

What is the “police force” that protects this country? This world? I'm sure that you can see where I'm going with this...your United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Reserve components are here to protect this country. Again, what about the world? Well, there is the United Nations...where our soldiers, along with the soldiers of other nations, work together to ensure “world security”. The problem is...other nations' soldiers or “police force” stay in their “precinct”. We, the United States, is the only country that has bases spread across the globe. Can you think of any bases here in the US that are “foreign”? Other countries don't have bases in numerous countries across the world. WE are the “police force” that is there when a neighboring country calls 911. That's right, YOUR United States Military serves and protects the entire world.



We live in THE best country in the world, but please grasp this concept...did you know that Iraq has a higher voting rate per person than the United States? That's right...in America roughly 20% of the adult population will determine the winner of the presidential election. In Iraq, roughly 60-70% of the adult population will determine the same. And guess what, in Iraq you risk YOUR LIFE to go vote. Here, 80% of our adult population thinks that it's too much of a bother. I know, this sounds like a “ploy” to ask you to vote...it's not. This is simply my concern with our upcoming elections. Because of the lack uneducated voters, we're on the verge of heading down a “police-less” street. One of our presidential candidates plans to DISARM the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! This is a very, very, real concern! This candidate says that he will stop spending dollars on the defense of our nation, that he will get rid of our nuclear arsenal. My question is this...WHY? My request to you is to DO YOUR RESEARCH before you vote.



OUR house (the United States) is unlocked. Fortunately, we've always had the “protected by _____” signs up, and we've always been known for protecting ourselves and our neighbors. Yes, we've had some intruders break into our house, but our “police force” has always been there when 911 was called.



This candidate doesn't agree with us going into this war.

For those of you who wonder why we went to war, I can only explain it this way:

Across the street, you see a rogue break into your neighbors house, (obviously he was breaking the “law”) taking your neighbor's property, killing his wife and children. This person has a “gang” of people helping him and you call 911. Unfortunately, this has already happened to many neighborhoods already...and the rogue has a “following” that's working for the same cause. As a matter of fact, the entire city is in chaos already...that 911 call failed to go through. The United Nations has rules against what the rogue has done, but they've never enforced them. It was up to the “worlds police force” to step in and enforce these rules, these laws. We are at war for this reason. Do we WANT to be there? No. The same way that the police officer that comes to your house when you call 911 doesn't WANT to be put into an unknown, dangerous situation where he could be killed. But guess what, he does it because he believes in what he's doing, and why he's doing it. He'll gladly put his life in harm's way to protect you, even though he doesn't know you.



Just because we don't KNOW our world neighbors doesn't mean that we should let them be killed by a ruthless dictator.



Back to your break-in...I hope that you can understand the importance of your police force (both locally and nationally). I hope that you get that insecure feeling, that “wake up call” every now and then to remind you that it IS important to have an ARMED force here in your country. Right now, there is an operator at the desk ready to handle your 911 call...will there be someone there if Obama gets voted into office? Think about it.

http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/20...disarm-america

so you're asserting that the the rest of the world is a collective of unsafe ****holes without competent police or any national security? bravo.

tell me, how many countries and continents have you lived in/on? or lets knock that a step down: how many countries have you actually traveled to?

contrary to your belief, moving somewhere else isn't as easy as buying a plane ticket(which trust me, cost much more than $1000 for most places) and saying goodbye. there's a multitude of reasons why someone may live somewhere, and know it's not the best place for them. Maybe it's a matter of time before they move, or maybe there's something keeping them there, such as family, or financial obligations.

your post reeks of ignorance and subjective argument.

you might love this country and it may be the best place for you, but don't try to argue that it's the best place to live for everyone bar none, because it's not. i'll be honest: i've had a comfortable life here in america, and this country has treated me well, but i don't feel at home here, and never will. the culture here is too different from what i grew up with and am accustomed to, and i do plan on moving out after i'm done with school. i'm not gonna bash america, because i have no reason to and it's a great country to live in, but i can't agree with you saying it's absolutely the best place in the world for everyone.

[MistaCee]

i think im gonna slap the next person of voting age that complains about a candidate but doesnt vote.

X2

[BUGMAN]

so you're asserting that the the rest of the world is a collective of unsafe ****holes without competent police or any national security? bravo.

tell me, how many countries and continents have you lived in/on? or lets knock that a step down: how many countries have you actually traveled to?

contrary to your belief, moving somewhere else isn't as easy as buying a plane ticket(which trust me, cost much more than $1000 for most places) and saying goodbye. there's a multitude of reasons why someone may live somewhere, and know it's not the best place for them. Maybe it's a matter of time before they move, or maybe there's something keeping them there, such as family, or financial obligations.

your post reeks of ignorance and subjective argument.

you might love this country and it may be the best place for you, but don't try to argue that it's the best place to live for everyone bar none, because it's not. i'll be honest: i've had a comfortable life here in america, and this country has treated me well, but i don't feel at home here, and never will. the culture here is too different from what i grew up with and am accustomed to, and i do plan on moving out after i'm done with school. i'm not gonna bash america, because i have no reason to and it's a great country to live in, but i can't agree with you saying it's absolutely the best place in the world for everyone.

Ease up slick... Like I said I got it form another board and thought it may be a good debate between folks. WTF crawled up your azz? Why don't you read my last post before looking so damn ignorant yourself.

I stated by beliefs but apparently you were too eager to start whining to read it.

[Jaimecbr900]

Be careful Bugman.....if you say something negative about Obama you'll suddenly be a racist bigot who doesn't want "change".......

[The12lber]

We live in THE best country in the world

Your patriotism is cute and everything, but lots of Western European nations/ Scandinavian nations enjoy higher standards of living, more equal distribution of wealth and greater personal freedoms etc than we do here in the United States.

Also, holy text wall.

[Jaimecbr900]

Your patriotism is cute and everything, but lots of Western European nations/ Scandinavian nations enjoy higher standards of living, more equal distribution of wealth and greater personal freedoms etc than we do here in the United States.

Also, holy text wall.

How exactly is this achieved?

BTW, which "nations" are these you speak of and what ruler are you using to measure them with? Just curious.

[The12lber]

How exactly is this achieved?

BTW, which "nations" are these you speak of and what ruler are you using to measure them with? Just curious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_index

"As of 2006, the United States had one of the highest levels of income inequality, as measured through the Gini index, among high income countries, comparable to that of some middle income countries such as Russia or Turkey,[15] being one of only few developed countries where inequality has increased since 1980"

As for the whole "standard of living" thing, there are a variety of indices, the United States isn't first in any of them. In terms of countries who are consistently ahead of us, you're looking at places like Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc.

The best one is probably the Economist Intelligence Unit's Quality of Life index - for 2005 we were 13th.

http://www.shannonireland.com/media/Media,2966,en.pdf

Also, its achieved when a government is of the people, by the people and for the people, acting in the best interest of said people.

Not constantly acting in the best interests of itself as a whole, its members as individuals and the interests of corporations.

[Reaper]

I can't stand it when people b1tch about equal distribution of wealth. Honestly, if you want it bad enough...you'll get it. No matter what the circumstances. Don't ***** about not being able to get a degree because of the circumstances someone was brought up on, or not having everything handed to them. Today is MUCH different than it was 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. It's much harder to make money without money. BUT IT CAN BE DONE. I'm an example. When I dropped out of college my parents told me I couldn't come home and that I needed to grow up..I just broke the 6figure mark this year. It's taken me 3 years to get there. But, I'm 21 years old. I mean honestly...The equal distribution of wealth **** irritates me. There are too many lazy people in this country.

I actually think Obama is a HELL of a guy. I just don't agree much of his policies. Nor McCain to be honest. But either is better than Clinton. I will vote for who I think is the lesser evil.

[Reaper]

Be careful Bugman.....if you say something negative about Obama you'll suddenly be a racist bigot who doesn't want "change".......

Your posts are always hilarious

reps if i can

[The12lber]

There are too many lazy people in this country.]

Yeah, the problem is obviously that lower income people are just lazy.
You're quite the dumb mother****er. Go crawl back into Reagan's grave.

Interestingly enough, most economists are in favor of 'redistribution'. As high a perecentage as 81% in recent surveying. Looks like the people who actually know **** about economics agree with me.

[Reaper]

Yeah, the problem is obviously that lower income people are just lazy.
You're quite the dumb mother****er. Go crawl back into Reagan's grave.

Interestingly enough, most economists are in favor of 'redistribution'. As high a perecentage as 81% in recent surveying. Looks like the people who actually know **** about economics agree with me.

yeah and they take MY money and give it to other people..yeah no thanks.

As far as me being a dumb motherf*cker. That's obviously your way of being mad that someone has made something of themselves from nothing, and actually can attest to it. I'm not going to sit here and bash you because I have no reason to. But please keep your ignorant comments to yourself, this isn't the whoreslounge.

And your right, I think Reagan was the best president the U.S. has seen in decades. And I am not ashamed to express it.

[Spektrewing386]

[The12lber]

yeah and they take MY money and give it to other people..yeah no thanks.

As far as me being a dumb motherf*cker. That's obviously your way of being mad that someone has made something of themselves from nothing, and actually can attest to it.
I don't give a **** about your rags to riches story. Tell that to a girl in a bar or something.
I'm not going to sit here and bash you because I have no reason to. But please keep your ignorant comments to yourself, this isn't the whoreslounge.
I'm not the ignorant one - I actually have a college education in the field of economics - therefor my comments are the opposite of ignorant, informed. You're just coming in here and going " LOWER INCOME PEOPLE ARE JUST LAZY LOL, DON'T TAKE ANY OF MY $$$$ I NEEDZ IT FOR THE BLING" based on nothing.

And your right, I think Reagan was the best president the U.S. has seen in decades. And I am not ashamed to express it.
He was mediocre at best. roflskates. Selling arms to Iran, at the time a hostile nation, in a desperate attempt to gain political clout. Supplying chemical weapons to Iraq which were used in the Kurdish Genocide, economic policy which hastened the coming of the economic crisis of the late eightees and deepened its severity.

As someone who actually knows something about our political history because you know - I decided being edcuated was important and actually stayed in college, not only is he a very unimpressive president, Nixon was better. And so was Clinton. Even Carter, for all he lacked in charisma, was a better president. Yes, even still ,George H.W. Bush was better.

"Redistribution" doesn't mean taking part of someone's paycheck and putting it in someone else' pocket either. That's why the quotes are there. It could be anything from universal healthcare, for all those lazy people you told me about who make less money than you (coal miners and road workers obviously couldn't care less about their health, right?), to lower tuition and an improved education system at every level.

Your "six figure income" wouldn't be adversely affected anyhow. The lack of equal distribution in wealth is mainly because of the superwealthy top 1-2% So I hate to break it to you, but you are not rich and successful enough to be breaking a sweat about "redistribution".

You managed to in less than a sentence insinuate that all people who are paid an inadequate wage are lazy ne'r do-gooders, making an extremely bold statement about an issue you basically DO NOT UNDERSTAND. In short, you are the ignorant one, not me.

Edit: Its also worth mentioning the chemical weapons technology handed over to Saddam by Reagan's administration were used on U.S. troops and are the cause of Gulf War Syndrome. U.S. troops were always stationed near chemical detectors, however, they were unreliable and constantly sounded false alarms, making it impossible to detect the presence of any chemical agents. The symptoms of "Gulf War Syndrome" are classic examples of low level mustard gas exposure, from chemical artillery deployed by the Iraqi Army (No, it wasn't DU. An abundance of DU munitions were expended in the Balkans and there is no Kosovo War Syndrome). Still the best president though, right?

[Total_Blender]

Reagan should have been put into a nursing home instead of a second term. Yeah, I said it

The US is sliding downhill. I think it has a lot to do with education. Our kids are failing miserably in math and science compared to the rest of the world. Engineers, doctors, practically anyone with a Master's degree in a math or science area now-a-days is a foreigner. Not that that is a bad thing, because the foreigners are the ones busting their asses for success .

Kids now-a-days are raised on a steady diet of Britney Spears and video games. The schools fail to teach thenm anything useful and then when they are of age to do something with their lives all corporate America has for them is $20k a year and a subprime mortgage.:idb:

[Spektrewing386]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

[The12lber]

Reagan should have been put into a nursing home instead of a second term. Yeah, I said it

The US is sliding downhill. I think it has a lot to do with education. Our kids are failing miserably in math and science compared to the rest of the world. Engineers, doctors, practically anyone with a Master's degree in a math or science area now-a-days is a foreigner. Not that that is a bad thing, because the foreigners are the ones busting their asses for success .

Kids now-a-days are raised on a steady diet of Britney Spears and video games. The schools fail to teach thenm anything useful and then when they are of age to do something with their lives all corporate America has for them is $20k a year and a subprime mortgage.:idb:

Honestly, I blame the educational system. My public school is ranked in the top five percent in the nation, even my honors level classes were a joke.

[Reaper]

All I did was chime in on what I felt/been through. For you to go on a tangent and get all pissy and knock on me is ridiculous. Your right I apparently know nothing of what I'm talking about, and there will be no winning with you. Good job at going through 4 years of school, and getting a degree. Schools not for me, I decided to go down a different path, and its working out just fine for me. But this is clearly a sore subject that you've got a chip on your shoulder from. Internet=serious business lol

[Total_Blender]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww



Thats pretty much my point entirely. The only possibile career option for her is hardcore porn.:boobies:

Edited to add video link from a few posts up because this thread is moving so fast lol

[The12lber]

All I did was chime in on what I felt/been through. For you to go on a tangent and get all pissy and knock on me is ridiculous. Your right I apparently know nothing of what I'm talking about, and there will be no winning with you. Good job at going through 4 years of school, and getting a degree. Schools not for me, I decided to go down a different path, and its working out just fine for me. But this is clearly a sore subject that you've got a chip on your shoulder from. Internet=serious business lol

No, I just don't like stupid people. There's no winning because I am right and you are wrong.

As far as college goes, its not even about the job placement. Its about being educated. You're coming in here, making ignorant and false statements because you're not educated, either formally or autodidactically. Everytime someone who just doesn't know goes into the voting booth and makes an uninformed decision, America loses. And that's pretty ****ing common.

[Jaimecbr900]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_index

"As of 2006, the United States had one of the highest levels of income inequality, as measured through the Gini index, among high income countries, comparable to that of some middle income countries such as Russia or Turkey,[15] being one of only few developed countries where inequality has increased since 1980"

As for the whole "standard of living" thing, there are a variety of indices, the United States isn't first in any of them. In terms of countries who are consistently ahead of us, you're looking at places like Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc.

The best one is probably the Economist Intelligence Unit's Quality of Life index - for 2005 we were 13th.

http://www.shannonireland.com/media/Media,2966,en.pdf

Also, its achieved when a government is of the people, by the people and for the people, acting in the best interest of said people.

Not constantly acting in the best interests of itself as a whole, its members as individuals and the interests of corporations.

2 things:

-The whole "distribution of wealth" idea is ambiguos and based on whomever devices the formula. For example, in the chart you provided it shows that the U.S. although only 5% of the total world population has over 25% of the world's "wealth", which could be seen as some kind of great divide. But if you look at China, with over 50% of the entire world's population and it too having over 25% of the world's wealth.....what's that mean really?

- Distribution of wealth is a Socialist idea, hence why it's so much more prevelent in Europe. It assumes equality of wealth as some sort of checks and balances device directed towards keeping the GOV'T in check. The idea, much like Communism, backfires because when you try and stiffle an individual's or corp's ability to advance, i.e. make more money, then you repress and ultimately irritate one very basic human principle....the principle that we always naturally strive to be better tomm than we are today. Why do you think that sometimes when you look at some of the most politically repressed countries they seem to be stuck in some kind of time warp where they never seem to advance with the rest of the world? Because the oppressive gov't basically kills the drive of it's citizens by basically capping their advancement in life.

Anyway, my

[The12lber]

2 things:

-The whole "distribution of wealth" idea is ambiguos and based on whomever devices the formula. For example, in the chart you provided it shows that the U.S. although only 5% of the total world population has over 25% of the world's "wealth", which could be seen as some kind of great divide. But if you look at China, with over 50% of the entire world's population and it too having over 25% of the world's wealth.....what's that mean really?

I'm going to pretend for a second you're seriously not dumb enough to think that China's 1.2 billion people are half of the world's estimated 6.7 billion people.

In any case there's nothing ambiguous about it and you failed in reading the graph - Asia is represented and not China. Economic measures are not voodoo. This is economics, not Reaganomics. They're based on hard math. GDP is GDP and PPP is PPP no matter who calculates it. In any case, differences internationally in GPD have to do with the developmental status of a nation's infrastructure/economy/etc. International distribution of income/wealth isn't what were were talking about anyhow.

- Distribution of wealth is a Socialist idea, hence why it's so much more prevelent in Europe. It assumes equality of wealth as some sort of checks and balances device directed towards keeping the GOV'T in check. The idea, much like Communism, backfires because when you try and stiffle an individual's or corp's ability to advance, i.e. make more money, then you repress and ultimately irritate one very basic human principle....the principle that we always naturally strive to be better tomm than we are today. Why do you think that sometimes when you look at some of the most politically repressed countries they seem to be stuck in some kind of time warp where they never seem to advance with the rest of the world? Because the oppressive gov't basically kills the drive of it's citizens by basically capping their advancement in life.

Your argument is self defeating. Those European nations with socialistic policies that you mentioned, the ones you say backfire, they all score dramatically higher than us on all quality of life indices (which include things like personal freedom etc). Their governments are more democratic and afford greater personal freedom than ours.

Socialism != the crushing weight of an oppressive Government. I don't know what kind of TV you've been watching, but these countries you seem to think are stuck in a time warp because of their "oppressive governments" are more developed than ours.

You're thinking of sub-saharan Africa.
Anyway, my

Epic fail

[BUGMAN]

Reagan should have been put into a nursing home instead of a second term. Yeah, I said it

The US is sliding downhill. I think it has a lot to do with education. Our kids are failing miserably in math and science compared to the rest of the world. Engineers, doctors, practically anyone with a Master's degree in a math or science area now-a-days is a foreigner. Not that that is a bad thing, because the foreigners are the ones busting their asses for success .

Kids now-a-days are raised on a steady diet of Britney Spears and video games. The schools fail to teach them anything useful and then when they are of age to do something with their lives all corporate America has for them is $20k a year and a sub prime mortgage.:idb:

I have said this too many times to count but Reagan will more than likely be the best President in my lifetime.

[redrumracer]

Stop watching Fox.

stop watching cnn then

[Jaimecbr900]

Epic fail

Says the barely out his teens know-it-all who can't even quote right in an internet forum. Talk about epic failure....

You know something? I was already an adult under Reagan, not just read about him in text books, smarty pants. So don't sit there and smugly try to lecture me about "Regeanomics" jack leg, when you weren't even a glint in your father's eye when Reagan was in office.

If you look at the very first link YOU provided when I asked YOU to show me what YOU meant by "wealth distribution", you will see that ASIA, which last time I checked was where CHINA is located, does indeed hold 50+% of the world's population ACCORDING TO YOUR ALL KNOWING AND ALL PROVING CHART. So if you want to split hairs with someone, split hairs with Wikipedia and not me.

Second of all, the "distribution of wealth" or Robin Hood theory is indeed a SOCIALIST idea. Matter of fact, even the link YOU provided says that clearly. Here, I'll quote it for you since you're having reading comprehension and open-mouth-insert-foot syndrome:

"Various forms of socialism, and capitalism to a lesser degree, make attempts to diminish the conflicts arising from the unequal distribution of wealth."

"The economic/political system of communism forwards the idea that a government, serving the interests of the proletariat, would confiscate the wealth of the rich and then distribute benefits to the poor."

"They cite the former Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China as examples of countries where, despite aggressive economic regulation, wealth continues to be distributed unevenly."

Hmmmmm, so let's take a look at YOUR example of how "distribution of wealth" is NOT a Socialist/Communist idea......oh, wait......We just did, huh? Who's dumb one now???? The Robin Hood idea has always been a Socialist battle cry. It has also served to keep people dependent on their GOV'T rather than themselves, after all if can't get it on your own....under the Socialist ideals.....the gov't will make sure to take it from someone else that has it to "share" it with you. That my friend, is exactly what Socialism is all about at its core. Looks good on paper, to those that get the handouts, but it doesn't work.

How about you stop making blanket generic statements and use some concrete proof? Name those countries where YOU feel that people have all this wealth they share with each other in harmony, get to walk around naked if they want, and live out their lives in the lap of luxury. Name them. Because I know that in just about every country in Europe you can't even own a gun, let alone carry one. That's a great "freedom". How about voting? I know that up until the late 20th century several countries didn't even give their citizens a right to vote. Great "freedom" there. Let's not forget about freedom of speech, religion, and press......because in Europe people don't get killed for any of those, right? Another great "freedom". Yep, wealth distribution.....which has worked so remarkably for countries like Germany during Hitler and Italy during Napoleon and Mussolini.....and personal freedoms.....which is why the good ole U.S.A. was even created to begin with.....sure do go a long way towards showing all of us idiot Westerners just how it should be done. Whatever, no thanks.

Finally, name those countries you think are so much more "developed" than we are. I'd be curious to see that list. I'm willing to bet that short of some index, chart, or economist saying so.....you have no other real material to prove your point. Wanna bet?

[disrupt]

Ease up slick... Like I said I got it form another board and thought it may be a good debate between folks. WTF crawled up your azz? Why don't you read my last post before looking so damn ignorant yourself.

I stated by beliefs but apparently you were too eager to start whining to read it.

while we're on the subject of 'reading it', take your own advice. nowhere in your first two posts did you say you got it from another board, you just said you 'posted it up'

then you claim you want a debate, yet when i argue against one of the points in the post, what do you do? you reply with "WTF crawled up your azz?" great rhetoric by the way, i really enjoy how you stayed with the original idea of a debate/sensible discussion. oh wait...

but honestly that last post of yours is obnoxious. how old are you when your response to everyone who posts anything other than 'usa is the best country ever'(in so many words) is to call them 'shallow headed fukers' who 'drive you insane with their stupidity' ? the caliber of hypocrisy with which you formulate your posts is astounding. if you wanted an argument on obama's policies, you should have summarized the post and made it more concise. the way you put it up in it's original form almost begged people to digress from the main point, which isn't all that clear anyway.

[BUGMAN]

while we're on the subject of 'reading it', take your own advice. nowhere in your first two posts did you say you got it from another board, you just said you 'posted it up'

then you claim you want a debate, yet when i argue against one of the points in the post, what do you do? you reply with "WTF crawled up your azz?" great rhetoric by the way, i really enjoy how you stayed with the original idea of a debate/sensible discussion. oh wait...

but honestly that last post of yours is obnoxious. how old are you when your response to everyone who posts anything other than 'usa is the best country ever'(in so many words) is to call them 'shallow headed fukers' who 'drive you insane with their stupidity' ? the caliber of hypocrisy with which you formulate your posts is astounding. if you wanted an argument on obama's policies, you should have summarized the post and made it more concise. the way you put it up in it's original form almost begged people to digress from the main point, which isn't all that clear anyway.

I never said that "I" wanted a debate! You really have a reading comprehension issue.

I also never argued with anyone that had anything to say opinion wise about the post or which country was the best but I merely re-posted repeatedly that I thought it would be a good topic for a debate and your still not getting it. I never argued anything about the topics of the post. Are you blind or just making this up as you go?

Obnoxious is someone continually not comprehending WTF someone has posted and keeps arguing anyway.

I agree with the war somewhat and I know something needed to be done but like stated above, we have enough problems over here that need to be fixed.

Just like the starving children commercials you see on TV. Now I am no tight wod and donate probably well over 10k a year to charities but not a penny of it goes over seas.

As far as dis-arming America... Well it would take probably longer than I am going to live to accomplish that so I don't see any major threats there.

I do support our troops and love my firearms but that is not why I posted this. I just put it up simply for a discussion and debate. Thought it may be good material for a good one.

Here is my 2nd post where I debated it myself and said that I didn't agree 100% with it. WTF are you trying to pull anyway? Need attention that your not getting at home or something? Are you speed reading or just picking between the lines to impress someone?

C'mon give it a break already. Your big words and fancy sentences aren't doing anything for me at all. I already stated my opinion on it and your still arguing with the original post.

[BUGMAN]

Anyone in here old enough to have experienced the last 4-5 Presidencies?

[The12lber]

Says the barely out his teens know-it-all who can't even quote right in an internet forum. Talk about epic failure....
Oh, where did I quote you wrong?

You know something? I was already an adult under Reagan, not just read about him in text books, smarty pants. So don't sit there and smugly try to lecture me about "Regeanomics" jack leg, when you weren't even a glint in your father's eye when Reagan was in office.

If you look at the very first link YOU provided when I asked YOU to show me what YOU meant by "wealth distribution", you will see that ASIA, which last time I checked was where CHINA is located, does indeed hold 50+% of the world's population ACCORDING TO YOUR ALL KNOWING AND ALL PROVING CHART. So if you want to split hairs with someone, split hairs with Wikipedia and not me.

Yeah, China is in Asia, but Cina is not the only country in Asia ****tard - a lot of other countries are too. China does not even have the largest GDP of the Asian nations, Japan does. What you said would be like pinning all of America's GDP on output from California and more over referring to America as "California". More over, its not my fault you chose to decide that Wealth Distribution only meant internationally. The article I linked you to was about Wealth Distribution in general, its not my fault all you ****ing did was look at the graph and not read because you are an idiot. From the first paragraph.


"Distribution of wealth is a comparison of the wealth of various members or groups in a society, and is one aspect of the economy and social structure. Typically, various racial and ethnic groups possess differing amounts of wealth, and the same is true when people are grouped by age or education. Different jobs bring in greatly different wages; the pay for some jobs is thousands of times greater than the pay for other jobs."

Second of all, the "distribution of wealth" or Robin Hood theory is indeed a SOCIALIST idea. Matter of fact, even the link YOU provided says that clearly. Here, I'll quote it for you since you're having reading comprehension and open-mouth-insert-foot syndrome:

Yeah, I never said it wasn't. What are you, retarded?


"Various forms of socialism, and capitalism to a lesser degree, make attempts to diminish the conflicts arising from the unequal distribution of wealth."

"The economic/political system of communism forwards the idea that a government, serving the interests of the proletariat, would confiscate the wealth of the rich and then distribute benefits to the poor."

You're talking about communism, not Socialism.

"They cite the former Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China as examples of countries where, despite aggressive economic regulation, wealth continues to be distributed unevenly."
Again, still communism. Another problem still, these nations weren't(aren't) democracies.

Hmmmmm, so let's take a look at YOUR example of how "distribution of wealth" is NOT a Socialist/Communist idea......oh, wait......We just did, huh? Who's dumb one now???? The Robin Hood idea has always been a Socialist battle cry. It has also served to keep people dependent on their GOV'T rather than themselves, after all if can't get it on your own....under the Socialist ideals.....the gov't will make sure to take it from someone else that has it to "share" it with you. That my friend, is exactly what Socialism is all about at its core. Looks good on paper, to those that get the handouts, but it doesn't work.

How about you stop making blanket generic statements and use some concrete proof?
I actually provided evidence from the start. Its not my fault you chose not to look at it.
Name those countries where YOU feel that people have all this wealth they share with each other in harmony, get to walk around naked if they want, and live out their lives in the lap of luxury. Name them. Because I know that in just about every country in Europe you can't even own a gun,
Yeah, about that, which European countries don't allow gun ownership? Wait, you probably can't name any because you're speaking out your ass. Europeans enjoy this freedom as well. And seriously, when you talk about freedoms you go straight to the guns, I love it.
let alone carry one. That's a great "freedom". How about voting? I know that up until the late 20th century several countries didn't even give their citizens a right to vote.
Yeah, lots of countries still don't. How's this relate to the nations in question though? Oh, wait, it doesn't. We're not talking about ****ing Saudi Arabia.

Great "freedom" there. Let's not forget about freedom of speech, religion, and press......because in Europe people don't get killed for any of those, right? Another great "freedom".
I'm assuming this is some kind of dig because Europe didn't get hit by any individual terrorist attacks as major as 9/11. That's probably because Europeans gave up on having an empire a long time ago but we are still an imperialist power, stepping on the toes of some seriously angry people.

Yep, wealth distribution.....which has worked so remarkably for countries like Germany during Hitler and Italy during Napoleon and Mussolini.....
Wow, what a sound argument. "FASCISTS DID IT- IT MUST BE EVIL."
Hitler and Mussolini got up and brushed their teeth every morning, I'm sure that's pretty terribly evil as well.
and personal freedoms.....which is why the good ole U.S.A. was even created to begin with.....sure do go a long way towards showing all of us idiot Westerners just how it should be done. Whatever, no thanks.

Finally, name those countries you think are so much more "developed" than we are. I'd be curious to see that list. I'm willing to bet that short of some index, chart, or economist saying so.....you have no other real material to prove your point. Wanna bet?

I realize dumb people like to do this when smart people know better than them... but seriously... THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT ECONOMISTS GET PAID TO DO AND IS THEIR FIELD OF EXPERTISE. And nobody else. Do you want me to make a collage of Norway next to the U.S. and do a side by side comparison or something?

WHAT OTHER EVIDENCE WOULD YOU USE THAN SOME INDEX, CHART OR SURVEY PERFORMED BY AN ECONOMIST?

That is how you compare these things. You get economists. BECAUSE ECONOMISTS KNOW ABOUT ECONOMICS.

Dude, you're pretty ****ing dumb. I never disputed wealth redistribution as a socialist ideal. More over, talking about the collapse of the U.S.S.R. doesn't shoot holes in any kind of socialist economics. While there is wealth redistribution in both, Communism creates a command economy and that is the reason it doesn't work.

All I did was lol@you reading Asia = China and point out that your little rant about Socialist policy leading to government oppression and some kind of "developmental time warp" was total bull**** and is disproven by what actually occurs in reality land.

All these other comments about voting and Hitler and ****... **** man... quite the rant that leads nowhere.

Linked before but linked once again because apparently you don't know how to copy paste things into your browser.

http://www.shannonireland.com/media/Media,2966,en.pdf

And no, despite the URL the document is hosted at, this is not Irish propaganda. That's just the first place I found the index. Most of the economists who made it were English.

As for these countries you seem to be intimating don't exist and I am making up, it ranks

1)Ireland
2)Switzerland
3)Norway
4)Luxembourg
5)Sweden
6)Australia
7)Iceland
8)Italy
9)Denmark
10)Spain
11)Singapore
12)Finland
13)United States

But socialism is destructive, right? roflskates

Notice every Scandinavian country in the world is beating us. Didn't I mention Scandinavia specifically?

[The12lber]

Now that explains a lot.

We are arguing with a kidiot? No wonder he doesn't seem to grasp the concept of anything that I am saying and keeps going backwards with his post.

Yup I think I am done wasting my time on someone that has little or no life experience and has learned everything they preach about theatrically.

That's the kind of feeble excuse you'd expect from an idiot who was proven wrong because someone who actually had a clue came in, brought a mountain of evidence to support his claim, and articulated it in a manner that can be described as something other than a text-filled cluster****.

[BUGMAN]

That's the kind of feeble excuse you'd expect from an idiot who was proven wrong because someone who actually had a clue came in, brought a mountain of evidence to support his claim, and articulated it in a manner that can be described as something other than a text-filled cluster****.

I need no excuse since it wasn't my opinion to begin with.

[The12lber]

No excuse it wasn't my post to begin with. You continue still to argue against me with a post that I added simply to see everyones opinion/debates on. I even disputed parts of it in my 2nd post which once again I am pointing out to you.

Why you do that? Your not proving me wrong but in your head you still think you are?

Answer my question, how old are you really? I can tell that your not very experienced hence the fact that you repeatedly refer to the main post that was not composed by me which you have been told repeatedly.

Um, I haven't been arguing with you at all. You haven't done any arguing. I quoted one thing from the post and disproved it and someone took issue with what I said. That is where this dialogue originates from. We haven't really been talking about your cute little post at all.

Pretty much everything I have said in this post has been towards JaimeBCR or yellow race car as his avatar who is amazingly proud of himself for making money without going to college - guy. I haven't really addressed anything towards you up until this point. I realize this is the internet and everything, but desperate for attention much?

You're trying to make this about you, and its not... at all... and it never has been. Go find something I said in my posts and prove me wrong. But you won't.

[BUGMAN]

Um, I haven't been arguing with you at all.

Fuk wrong reply... Sorry my mistake. Getting all worked up and I was the one not paying attention.


I will gladly admit that I posted this so I could read the debates and learn a little. This was not my write up but I found it to be very arguable in several points.

I am not what you would call a politically correct or informed person. No offense meant but looking at the candidates we have now I am not planning on studying too hard right now either.

I do not gamble by voting on the lesser of the 2 evils so I chose to hide while everyone else voting can hold the responsibility of fuking the rest of it up for us.

[The12lber]

Fuk wrong reply... Sorry my mistake. Getting all worked up and I was the one not paying attention.


I will gladly admit that I posted this so I could read the debates and learn a little. This was not my write up but I found it to be very arguable in several points.

I am not what you would call a politically correct or informed person. No offense meant but looking at the candidates we have now I am not planning on studying too hard right now either.

I do not gamble by voting on the lesser of the 2 evils so I chose to hide while everyone else voting can hold the responsibility of fuking the rest of it up for us.

Obama's a lot more than hype.