God vs. Science

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Originally Posted by ahabion

it does hold true that God does not need anyone, especially Christians, because as many other Christians know, there was nothing to begin with anyway, and yet He still already existed.

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Again, how is there any truth to that statement? Without the teaching of his existence there wouldn't be anything to worship, therfore nothing there but a memory. Lets use this as an example; You have a dollar bill saved under a vase. At first you know that its there, so you keep on thinking about it, but over time you slowly start to forgot about it and reach a point were you no longer even look at the vase. Same with the existence of god or jesus christ, if people slowly start to forgot about him so too will the belief fade.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Don't confuse God with churches, because the church (in its physical form) is only a place of fellowship and communion for those ppl to meet. The church, as in a people or community sense, does not need money, electricity, or anything physically to exist. (ie: particularly churchs in poverish places, they need not a building, money, or electricty to function)

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There is some truth to this. But as im sure you know, comfort is very important to people now adays. So without these features(electricity, water, air conditioning) slowly people will start to get fade away from there. In other countries that are unfortunate to have some of things we have here, are the ones with a stronger faith. Still you don't see pastors going around praying for free now, you must contribute alittle money for their service.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

In all reality, the beginning of life has yet to be scientifically proven. Even based on the Big Bang theory and evolution itself has yet to still be scientifically proven, because for scientist and others alike, there has to be definitive proof of what can be seen and witnessed. No one was there to witness the first enzymes that collected in the pool of slime/mud/whever you wanna call it, and no on was there to examine and witness the evolutionary process of (i dare say) ANY living animal or creature over the expanse of a few millenia. If we came from apes or cows from some type of dinosaur, or anything else, why are we carbon dating fossils of dinosaurs (that existed 65 billion years ago) and yet can not find the evolutionary skeletal remains of everything else inbetween (the evolutionary changes from for example: dino to cow?)

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You're right, evolution and the big bang theory haven't been physically or scientifically proven, but there have been clues about there exixtence. Evolution threw our fossil remains and the big bang threw the stars moving away from each other. We did NOT evolved from dinosaurs or cows. Dinosaurs and other reptiles existed way before some mammals. Around 65 million, not billion. The earth is thought to be only 4 billion years old. Anyways, sure there were rodents, but nothing big enough to give spark to actually primate evolution.

Answer me this. Do you believe that the earth was hit by a meteorite?

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Originally Posted by ahabion

if they judge you, thats on their own conciousness and you shouldn't worry about it. Pre-martial sex, sure who hasn't, stealing... plenty of times, cursing and swearing... still do from time to time... no one is perfect... but I think what you are talking about is simply, Morality. Has science proven that?

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Has science proven morality? Morality is nothing more than rules, lessons, and actions one is taught growing up. Nothing to prove there but the fact that others grow up differently due to their surroundings.

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Originally Posted by Maniac©

Again, how is there any truth to that statement? Without the teaching of his existence there wouldn't be anything to worship, therfore nothing there but a memory. Lets use this as an example; You have a dollar bill saved under a vase. At first you know that its there, so you keep on thinking about it, but over time you slowly start to forgot about it and reach a point were you no longer even look at the vase. Same with the existence of god or jesus christ, if people slowly start to forgot about him so too will the belief fade.

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Um... let me try it this way... but first the overall statement is, God began with nothing, then he created everything including man, and then had something... but even when he had nothing, he still was God and so he made something to call his own...

now for the example... remember in the matrix 1, Neo walked into the Oracle's apt and saw those kids practicing... and the kid said, "there is no spoon." Its almost like that to where the matrix made you think it was there, but it really wasnt... it was physical, Neo saw it, touched it, made it bend. but, according to the movie, it wasn't real. The matrix existed, regardless if anyone ever knew about it, it was still present and all around and the machines made changes to the matrix as they saw fit. Come to find out later in sequels, the machines purposefully made people concious of the matrix, just to start the whole cycle over and over again.

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Still you don't see pastors going around praying for free now, you must contribute alittle money for their service.

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Its a job, gotta make a living some how... even if the earnings are meager... for my dad, he only made 600/month... that was being a full time pastor, prepping sermons every Sunday morning and evening service, going to ppls houses to pray for their families and sick loved ones... we grew up on welfare... put it simply, my childhood wasn't very... abundant. But you take what cards your dealt and do your best to make the best of it all.

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Answer me this. Do you believe that the earth was hit by a meteorite?

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I'm sure astroids have of course hit the earth, but if we're talkinag about Armaggedon type of astroid... its hard to say... maybe maybe not... supposedly thats what brought on the death of dino's and into the ice age.

Do i think that it was the start of it all? Nope, I myself don't think so.

my theory is your sister is much smarter than you and your counter manipulation of your own opinion shows you know nothing about the topic to even be on the same tier to argue about it in the first place.

i mean that in the best possible way of course.

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Originally Posted by Wurm

who gives a **** about what someone believes in the only thing that should matter to you is your own beliefs.

No i dont believe in god but I wont down someone just because they need something more to help them through this ****hole we call life

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That 180 degree (Thanks Hulud :D) turn.

You start out the post like Billy badass by saying you don't care a crap about someone elses beliefs, but then you turn 180 degrees and say you won't down on someone (after you just did) and sugar coat it. If you don't care, you don't care. By saying you don't care about others beliefs you down on them right there.

It was meant as a funny though, didn't think I was going to have to provide a play by. :)

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Originally Posted by KiTTY KA-T

my theory is your sister is much smarter than you and your counter manipulation of your own opinion shows you know nothing about the topic to even be on the same tier to argue about it in the first place.

i mean that in the best possible way of course.

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I won't argue the fact that my little sister is smarter than I am. Cause I know it, she hasn't made any stupid decisions as I did growing up. She is on her way to collage, something I never even thought about. She didn't make the blog, she found it and copied and pasted it. I thought it was col, so I thought I'd share.

If you're not going to add your thoughts or opinions on this matter, just leave.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Um... let me try it this way... but first the overall statement is, God began with nothing, then he created everything including man, and then had something... but even when he had nothing, he still was God and so he made something to call his own...

now for the example... remember in the matrix 1, Neo walked into the Oracle's apt and saw those kids practicing... and the kid said, "there is no spoon." Its almost like that to where the matrix made you think it was there, but it really wasnt... it was physical, Neo saw it, touched it, made it bend. but, according to the movie, it wasn't real. The matrix existed, regardless if anyone ever knew about it, it was still present and all around and the machines made changes to the matrix as they saw fit. Come to find out later in sequels, the machines purposefully made people concious of the matrix, just to start the whole cycle over and over again.




Its a job, gotta make a living some how... even if the earnings are meager... for my dad, he only made 600/month... that was being a full time pastor, prepping sermons every Sunday morning and evening service, going to ppls houses to pray for their families and sick loved ones... we grew up on welfare... put it simply, my childhood wasn't very... abundant. But you take what cards your dealt and do your best to make the best of it all.




I'm sure astroids have of course hit the earth, but if we're talkinag about Armaggedon type of astroid... its hard to say... maybe maybe not... supposedly thats what brought on the death of dino's and into the ice age.

Do i think that it was the start of it all? Nope, I myself don't think so.

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You and I both know if we wanted too, we could keep this up til one of used failed to come up with anything worth replying to. You made some very god points in all of your posts, im sure I did as well. But I'll see what other people have to say about this, and I'll just read.

Thanks for giving me nice posts to actually use some thought for once. :) +1

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Originally Posted by ahabion

it does hold true that God does not need anyone, especially Christians, because as many other Christians know, there was nothing to begin with anyway, and yet He still already existed.

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This statement just pulled me back in here.

You are completely and totally wrong in that entire statement. Amazing.

Without people to worship the divine or a diety, the diety would cease to be a presence in the collective conscience of the people. The people would move on to other sources to fill the missing divine and you have another in a long line of religions. I still find it quite comical that Christians are so conceited as to claim that God created the world but yet Chrisianity is but a blip on the collective religion radar.

Roughly 2007 years ago, Christianity was formed. I'm sure there were ramblings before that date but that is the date most commonly used (like our calendar). Before that it was all sorts of other religions. All Christianity has done is drive other religions out and form up the majority under one banner. Without christians, God would cease to exist. No other way around that. Sort of like this "If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound"

So instead of realizing that things had been around MUCH longer than Christianity had been, some christians come up with this theory. Young Earth Creationism. Some crackpots in the religions community believe that Genesis created the earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. Nevermind that carbon dating and any other ways of determining age of things show differently, these people have decided that all of that is false and bunk. They even made a nice, huge little amusement park style ride in middle america, filled with Disneyland style animatronic gadgetry to teach others this whacked out belief. So instead of learning, they just formulated this to coincide with their beliefs. Amazing what blind faith can do.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Don't confuse God with churches, because the church (in its physical form) is only a place of fellowship and communion for those ppl to meet. The church, as in a people or community sense, does not need money, electricity, or anything physically to exist. (ie: particularly churchs in poverish places, they need not a building, money, or electricty to function)

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You are wrong....again.

I would have expected more thought out of you than this, especially with you being the son of a pastor. Without the church, much of what you currently call Christianity would not be near as large as it is. Not only does a Pastor need monety to survive because as one person stated in this thread earlier, church is not one day a week, it is all week. That would not allow the pastor to make any other form uf sustanance. All Christians would love to believe that the word of god is nourishment enough, but try that for 3 months and get back to me.

Not only do the masses need a figurehead to channel their worship through (pastor) they also need a place to do it. A Church is not just a building. It is a focal point for worship, gatherings, prayers, weddings and many other functions. Without power, none of those would last very long. I hate to tell you but even churches in impoverished places need power to perform. Without power, money or a building, religion wouldn't last long. Most people don't do it on their own, they rely on the church to fulfill that spiritual hole in the soul.

The most holy and largest beacon of spiritual light in the world quite possibly is the Vatican. If the Vatican were destroyed tomorrow, Christianity would suffer a huge blow. If all the churches in the world just dissappeared, Christianity would blink out of existance. Sure, there would be some that remembered, but the masses would look to other guidance.

In closing. Most of what most people have said isn't aimed at God, it is aimed at organized religion. Organized religion is that monsterous face that is applied to God because every atrocity that was commited was commited in his name. From the Inquisition to the Crusades to Waco, they were all done in the name of religion. David Koresh's church, the Branch Davidian church was an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventist church, used the Bible (revelations mostly) to convince his followers that the Government was their enemies. He also told them that God had told him to have sex with all of the women in his following to create his "Special people" or his "House of David". That meant married couples dissolving their marriages and only David having sex with the wives and minors (yes, he ****ed children). When the Gov'ment came a calling, Ol David called back and got pwned.

There are hundreds of similiar cases. People have used religion as the means to get wealth (whether is be money, land or asss) throughout the centuries. Most of it was by actual members of the church. But, same with the other guy in here, none of this will probably register with you. Faith is total and complete, right down to the religious blinders that are placed around your head. Christians will sell out or just plain ignore reason, logic and common sense for that once small chance of life after death.

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Originally Posted by Glides

This statement just pulled me back in here.

You are completely and totally wrong in that entire statement. Amazing.

Without people to worship the divine or a diety, the diety would cease to be a presence in the collective conscience of the people. The people would move on to other sources to fill the missing divine and you have another in a long line of religions. I still find it quite comical that Christians are so conceited as to claim that God created the world but yet Chrisianity is but a blip on the collective religion radar.

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For the first part, please refer to the above example I gave before about the matrix. For the Bold part, what you are saying is that a particular sect of society is "conceited" because they have an opinion and belief... please... forgive us for having our own opinion and beliefs... :gay:

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Roughly 2007 years ago, Christianity was formed. I'm sure there were ramblings before that date but that is the date most commonly used (like our calendar). Before that it was all sorts of other religions. All Christianity has done is drive other religions out and form up the majority under one banner. Without christians, God would cease to exist. No other way around that. Sort of like this "If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound"

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For the italic portion, let me address that almost all organizations that have a "product" to promote will always want to sell you their product. IF you are a Nike person, Reebok will want to sell you their product so that, YOU in turn will become a Reebok person. Basic analogy of "conversion"... which with any organization, is a key goal and aspiration. Notice I said "organization" and not religion. Religions CAN BE organizations, but NOT ALL organizations are religion... ei: Nike and Reebok.

Conversion is a key point in ALL religions, hence why ALL religions focus on "spreading their faith" or "the good news" or the "truth"... your surroundings may be of more Christian based followers, and so you may tend to feel "smothered" with the God and Jesus talk and the pain in the *** question of: "Why the hell are you trying to force this down my throat???" Answer is: The people who are doing that, are a part of their organization... Not to be mistaken by "all Christians" if you will...

For the Bold, you can use science to derive an answer to that. We all know that if no one is around that no one will hear it. But it does not change the fact that the tree still fell, and thru hypothesis and tests, will 100% conclude that a full grown, 50 foot falling tree will make a sound when it falls. BUT on the contrary, just because no one is able to witness it, does not mean it is not able to make a sound. This conclusion is only possible because we are able to test and retest our hypothesis.

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So instead of realizing that things had been around MUCH longer than Christianity had been, some christians come up with this theory. Young Earth Creationism. Some crackpots in the religions community believe that Genesis created the earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. Nevermind that carbon dating and any other ways of determining age of things show differently, these people have decided that all of that is false and bunk. They even made a nice, huge little amusement park style ride in middle america, filled with Disneyland style animatronic gadgetry to teach others this whacked out belief. So instead of learning, they just formulated this to coincide with their beliefs. Amazing what blind faith can do.

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Just another sect of society stating their postulated opinions. Nothing more, and don't forget to take into consideration that science has yet to be able to prove their side of their argument as well. So you can almost say that the Young Earth Creationism followers and the people who believe in science are one and the same. They have their young earth, science has their multiverse. I like pizza and sushi, she likes hamburgers and fries... so what?

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You are wrong....again.

I would have expected more thought out of you than this, especially with you being the son of a pastor. Without the church, much of what you currently call Christianity would not be near as large as it is. Not only does a Pastor need monety to survive because as one person stated in this thread earlier, church is not one day a week, it is all week. That would not allow the pastor to make any other form uf sustanance. All Christians would love to believe that the word of god is nourishment enough, but try that for 3 months and get back to me.

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The pastor is NOT a figurehead, he is a teacher. Teaching is his job at a church, like any professor is to any college. They choose this line of work because they wanted to... they knew the consequences and rewards of this type of position. My brother worked for free as a Youth Paster in Toccoa Falls college... for FREE... to earn his buck, he also worked at a Drug and Rehab center in Toccoa as well, called Victory Home. Pastors are teachers, NOT figureheads.

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Not only do the masses need a figurehead to channel their worship through (pastor) they also need a place to do it. A Church is not just a building. It is a focal point for worship, gatherings, prayers, weddings and many other functions. Without power, none of those would last very long. I hate to tell you but even churches in impoverished places need power to perform. Without power, money or a building, religion wouldn't last long. Most people don't do it on their own, they rely on the church to fulfill that spiritual hole in the soul.

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Some churches do hold events every day of the week. Nothing wrong with that... and the word of God has a different meaning to them than it does to you... to them, it is nourishment enough, to you, it means nothing.You talk about these huge buildings that are so eloquently put together, costing millions of dollars to build and yet you are saying that these churches don't need money to pay for these huge churches? If you don't go to church, it doesn't cost you a dime, if you do go to a church, it still doesn't cost you a dime and if it does, FIND A NEW CHURCH!!! The money put into these churches are funded and founded by the members of the church. The church doesn't get government grants, costing taxpayers money... they buy it with their own money. The same way you put money and parts into your car, so they put money and time into their church. Is there something wrong with that ideology?

And I know plenty of people PERSONALLY that have preached in poverish places and go out of the country to stand and tell their belief to others that listened, irregardless of the conditions that they were in. They didn't need electricity to provide all the creature comforts we've come to take for granted, they did without a roof over their heads and stood under a leafy canopy, and they DID NOT rely on a church or funding from any organization to so. They worked and saved their own money, they asked for any donations that anyone would give and they got themselves over to where they were going, working either alone or with friends and family and when they got there, they started with nothing... they knew no one.. just the clothes in their bags and a Bible in hand... and I say this because I know these people.

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The most holy and largest beacon of spiritual light in the world quite possibly is the Vatican. If the Vatican were destroyed tomorrow, Christianity would suffer a huge blow. If all the churches in the world just dissappeared, Christianity would blink out of existance. Sure, there would be some that remembered, but the masses would look to other guidance.

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"The most holy and largest beacon of spiritual light in the world quite possibly is the Vatican..." IF I WERE CATHOLIC. To be honest, i could careless if the Vatican went down the pipe, the position of Pope could go with it. Most holy and largest of beacon of spiritual light...? I beg to differ... thats like saying that Atlanta is the be all and end all of ALL import tuning/drifting/drag/street/performance/audio/night show and etc. of the car world... i think not... OMFG!!! Atlanta just got nuked... I guess no parts for me.. says the guy in Tokyo.

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In closing. Most of what most people have said isn't aimed at God, it is aimed at organized religion. Organized religion is that monsterous face that is applied to God because every atrocity that was commited was commited in his name. From the Inquisition to the Crusades to Waco, they were all done in the name of religion. David Koresh's church, the Branch Davidian church was an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventist church, used the Bible (revelations mostly) to convince his followers that the Government was their enemies. He also told them that God had told him to have sex with all of the women in his following to create his "Special people" or his "House of David". That meant married couples dissolving their marriages and only David having sex with the wives and minors (yes, he ****ed children). When the Gov'ment came a calling, Ol David called back and got pwned.

There are hundreds of similiar cases. People have used religion as the means to get wealth (whether is be money, land or asss) throughout the centuries. Most of it was by actual members of the church. But, same with the other guy in here, none of this will probably register with you.

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Yep, I agree totally that organized religion is a monstrous foe that will be used to do selfish and evils things. Its human nature to use power. The old addage, "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." So said Lord Acton... The Crusades were brought upon by a person of power. David Koresh found followers to his cause and gained power. The KKK, the NAACP, Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Joan of Arc... the list goes on and on... these are and were people of great power. They got that power because they were able to find people to support them in their belief, NOT because they proclaimed it was in the name of GOD... they are/were fanatics. You tend to get some in every generation...

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Faith is total and complete, right down to the religious blinders that are placed around your head. Christians will sell out or just plain ignore reason, logic and common sense for that once small chance of life after death.

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Faith is what you make of it. You can have faith in anything... in your car, the chair you sit in, the girl/guy you like or are with... that is faith... you have faith that neither of those will break down on you or turn on you... you have faith that your job will keep you around or that you'll even wake up alive tomorrow... that is FAITH. Faith is nothing more than trust.

Christians ignore reason, logic, and common sense because to them, YOU are outside looking in... the same can be true if the roles are reverse... and so like you, they don't want what you have to say shoved down their throats either, just as much as you don't want them to do the same. :D

Life after death, that is part of our faith (trust) in our lifestyle we've chosen to live, because to ME, Christianity is NOT a religion... to me, its a lifestyle and a relationship with my God. This is what I believe in.

well, heres my opinion, you cant disprove god, and you cant disprove science, so believe in what you want, and stop trying to put other people down for being in the same boat you are. we all may think we know the true answer, but in all reality, your theory is as good as mine, regardless of how far fetched it is.


not directed towards anyone in particular.

Let me first start by saying that you are a worthy debate partner. Thanks for being here.

Now. On with it.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

For the first part, please refer to the above example I gave before about the matrix.

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Comparing God to the Matrix is pretty funny. So in that instance you must be Orpheus, running around Import Atlanta attempting to wake up the sleeping non-believers?

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Originally Posted by ahabion

For the Bold part, what you are saying is that a particular sect of society is "conceited" because they have an opinion and belief... please... forgive us for having our own opinion and beliefs... :gay:

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Yes, that is what I am saying. Except you keep forgetting that even today, your sect of society's opinions and beliefs tend to get people killed and have gotten LOTS of people killed, maimed, butchered and tortured throughout your sects bloody history. See Christians have this wonderfully bad habit of judging people. If they don't believe like you do, if they don't behave like you do then it's just ok to kill them. Maybe not you personally but please don't make me go back through history again, i've provided plenty of references in this thread alone.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

For the italic portion, let me address that almost all organizations that have a "product" to promote will always want to sell you their product. IF you are a Nike person, Reebok will want to sell you their product so that, YOU in turn will become a Reebok person. Basic analogy of "conversion"... which with any organization, is a key goal and aspiration. Notice I said "organization" and not religion. Religions CAN BE organizations, but NOT ALL organizations are religion... ei: Nike and Reebok.

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So God is the same as a shoe? Interesting product to compare God too. I can see the comparisons though. A very large shoe that has systematically stomped out the light of lives, religions, faiths and ruined the lives of millions of people through murder, rape, torture and pedophelia. But there is one difference in your analogy though. If you wear Nikes, the Reebok doesn't send soldiers to your house, drag you outside, nail Reeboks on your feet then beat you to death and hang you from the awning of your house.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Conversion is a key point in ALL religions, hence why ALL religions focus on "spreading their faith" or "the good news" or the "truth"... your surroundings may be of more Christian based followers, and so you may tend to feel "smothered" with the God and Jesus talk and the pain in the *** question of: "Why the hell are you trying to force this down my throat???" Answer is: The people who are doing that, are a part of their organization... Not to be mistaken by "all Christians" if you will...

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Tend to feel smothered?? Oh is that what you call it? We live in the Bible Belt unless you haven't taken the time to look around. There are more different styles of Christianity per square mile around here than most places in the world. You have Baptist, Southern Baptist, Catholisism and the list goes on and on. What is interesting is that each of them is different. So much so that other styles of Christianity look down on other ones. More of the "judging" thing. Baptists look down on Southern Baptists as being too fiery, Catholics look down on others for not being formal enough and on and on and on. So how can a religion that is based around the same exact thing, differ so much and cause strife? Once again, God isn't the problem, organized religion is.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

For the Bold, you can use science to derive an answer to that. We all know that if no one is around that no one will hear it. But it does not change the fact that the tree still fell, and thru hypothesis and tests, will 100% conclude that a full grown, 50 foot falling tree will make a sound when it falls. BUT on the contrary, just because no one is able to witness it, does not mean it is not able to make a sound. This conclusion is only possible because we are able to test and retest our hypothesis.

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We are? Ok, show me the conclusive tests where it shows me God is real. Do that and our debate is over and you will have won. I'll be waiting.
This will be the end of our discussion I am sure because in the face of this simple yet enormous challenge, Christians throw up the blinders and revert back to faith. There is no proof and all you have to fall back too in your entire religious debate is a book. A heavily edited, humanly flawed book.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Just another sect of society stating their postulated opinions. Nothing more, and don't forget to take into consideration that science has yet to be able to prove their side of their argument as well. So you can almost say that the Young Earth Creationism followers and the people who believe in science are one and the same. They have their young earth, science has their multiverse. I like pizza and sushi, she likes hamburgers and fries... so what?

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Um, wrong. Unlike the paragraph before, unless you missed the last 20 years of your life, didn't go to school or just plain cannot read, you will have learned that we have dated many things and have proved their age to be much older than 10,000 years. You know, things like rocks, bones, woods and many many more. I'm not sure if you were just talking without thinking in that paragraph but.....:???:

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Originally Posted by ahabion

The pastor is NOT a figurehead, he is a teacher. Teaching is his job at a church, like any professor is to any college. They choose this line of work because they wanted to... they knew the consequences and rewards of this type of position. My brother worked for free as a Youth Paster in Toccoa Falls college... for FREE... to earn his buck, he also worked at a Drug and Rehab center in Toccoa as well, called Victory Home. Pastors are teachers, NOT figureheads.

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You are correct, by actual definition some pastors are not figureheads. You brother is admirable for what he did, pat him on the back next time you see him.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

You talk about these huge buildings that are so eloquently put together, costing millions of dollars to build and yet you are saying that these churches don't need money to pay for these huge churches? If you don't go to church, it doesn't cost you a dime, if you do go to a church, it still doesn't cost you a dime and if it does, FIND A NEW CHURCH!!! The money put into these churches are funded and founded by the members of the church. The church doesn't get government grants, costing taxpayers money... they buy it with their own money. The same way you put money and parts into your car, so they put money and time into their church. Is there something wrong with that ideology?

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No....you did. Right here.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

The church, as in a people or community sense, does not need money, electricity, or anything physically to exist. (ie: particularly churchs in poverish places, they need not a building, money, or electricty to function)

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So which is it? Do they need it or not? You keep saying that money isn't a factor here but you contradict yourself at least 3 times in that paragraph. Going to church doesn't cost you a dime, but if people don't go to church and tithe then nothing gets paid for because according to you the pastor doesn't need money, the church doesn't get money from any other outside source other than subjects. So which is it? Oh and churches DO cost taxpayers money because they are tax exempt so all income is kept in-house. If they paid their share of taxes like the rest of us then our tax burden would be easier no?

So since they don't need all that money, why don't they give it to charity? BECAUSE THEY NEED IT. For someone that claims to know religion you sure are a little fuzzy on the real world workings of things.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

And I know plenty of people PERSONALLY that have preached in poverish places and go out of the country to stand and tell their belief to others that listened, irregardless of the conditions that they were in. They didn't need electricity to provide all the creature comforts we've come to take for granted, they did without a roof over their heads and stood under a leafy canopy, and they DID NOT rely on a church or funding from any organization to so. They worked and saved their own money, they asked for any donations that anyone would give and they got themselves over to where they were going, working either alone or with friends and family and when they got there, they started with nothing... they knew no one.. just the clothes in their bags and a Bible in hand... and I say this because I know these people.

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Really? Where are they now? Are they still spreading the word or are they back at home in their cozy church. I find your claim hard to believe, but it could happen. In this day and age though....hard to believe.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

"The most holy and largest beacon of spiritual light in the world quite possibly is the Vatican..." IF I WERE CATHOLIC. To be honest, i could careless if the Vatican went down the pipe, the position of Pope could go with it. Most holy and largest of beacon of spiritual light...? I beg to differ... thats like saying that Atlanta is the be all and end all of ALL import tuning/drifting/drag/street/performance/audio/night show and etc. of the car world... i think not... OMFG!!! Atlanta just got nuked... I guess no parts for me.. says the guy in Tokyo.

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I can see this seeing as how the Catholic church has been responsible form 99% of the spread of Christianity and 99% of the death, turture and general mayhem right along with it. Must be kinda tough to swallow, sort of like having a brother in jail for murder.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Yep, I agree totally that organized religion is a monstrous foe that will be used to do selfish and evils things. Its human nature to use power. The old addage, "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." So said Lord Acton... The Crusades were brought upon by a person of power. David Koresh found followers to his cause and gained power. The KKK, the NAACP, Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Joan of Arc... the list goes on and on... these are and were people of great power. They got that power because they were able to find people to support them in their belief, NOT because they proclaimed it was in the name of GOD... they are/were fanatics. You tend to get some in every generation...

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And why do you think they use religion as the cornerstone for their campaigns? Because it's the quickest way to turn a weak mind.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Faith is what you make of it. You can have faith in anything... in your car, the chair you sit in, the girl/guy you like or are with... that is faith... you have faith that neither of those will break down on you or turn on you... you have faith that your job will keep you around or that you'll even wake up alive tomorrow... that is FAITH. Faith is nothing more than trust.

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All tangible things. I can tough my car, I can screw my girl, I can sit in my chair. Until you show me tangible on the whole God thing, it's just hearsay.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Christians ignore reason, logic, and common sense because to them, YOU are outside looking in... the same can be true if the roles are reverse... and so like you, they don't want what you have to say shoved down their throats either, just as much as you don't want them to do the same. :D

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Except that on my side are truths, scientific fact and tangible evidence. On your side is mysticism, magic and an old book. Once again, prove to me that God is real and you have won.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

Life after death, that is part of our faith (trust) in our lifestyle we've chosen to live, because to ME, Christianity is NOT a religion... to me, its a lifestyle and a relationship with my God. This is what I believe in.

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Commendable. Of all the things you've said, I can agree with that. Christianity IS a lifestyle. If you live it correctly then good things should come to you. If you use it for personal gain, bad things should come to you. But you should never be ashamed of it. I am not suggesting that. I am simply suggesting that Christians look at facts and recognize that alot of what they choose to believe in is hocus pocus. For them to look facts dead in the eye and say "I don't believe it" but then turn right around and believe in a fictual being that can do wonderoursly magical things is like saying "I don't belive in the President of the United States, but by god I belive in Severus Snape"

It's just odd.

But either way, good debate. Maybe one day we will meet and we can have a drink. Me some beer and you, maybe some Blood of Christ Chablis 1934 or something :D

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Originally Posted by ahabion

For the first part, please refer to the above example I gave before about the matrix. For the Bold part, what you are saying is that a particular sect of society is "conceited" because they have an opinion and belief... please... forgive us for having our own opinion and beliefs... :gay:

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I think that's exactly what he is saying. The KKK is a particular sect of society who have their own opinions and beliefs too. Are you saying that everyone should respect those opinions and beliefs? If I believe that white's are the superior race because "I know it and feel it in my heart from the depth of my soul" you would respect that because its my belief right? If a Christian says "Christianity is the only right religion because I know it and feel it in my heart from the depth of my soul", then yes, that absolutely is conceited!

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Originally Posted by bu villain

I think that's exactly what he is saying. The KKK is a particular sect of society who have their own opinions and beliefs too. Are you saying that everyone should respect those opinions and beliefs? If I believe that white's are the superior race because "I know it and feel it in my heart from the depth of my soul" you would respect that because its my belief right? If a Christian says "Christianity is the only right religion because I know it and feel it in my heart from the depth of my soul", then yes, that absolutely is conceited!

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I would respect you for it, I might not agree with it, but if thats what you want to believe and live by, thats your own decision. You've made that choice, not me... if you stand by what you believe in, then thats fine by me. Again, I don't have to agree with it, but I respect it if thats what you'd like to do. You are entitled to your own opinions, thoughts and beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Glides

Comparing God to the Matrix is pretty funny. So in that instance you must be Orpheus, running around Import Atlanta attempting to wake up the sleeping non-believers?

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Getting back on topic, even if people forgot about God (like the people who knew nothing of the matrix), God (matrix) would still exist, regardless if anyone else acknowledged it. The machines (God) made it known to mankind that they/He was there, and made changes in the matrix/world as they saw fit.

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Yes, that is what I am saying. Except you keep forgetting that even today, your sect of society's opinions and beliefs tend to get people killed and have gotten LOTS of people killed, maimed, butchered and tortured throughout your sects bloody history. See Christians have this wonderfully bad habit of judging people. If they don't believe like you do, if they don't behave like you do then it's just ok to kill them. Maybe not you personally but please don't make me go back through history again, i've provided plenty of references in this thread alone.

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A minority sect in a very large group, and it only takes a few to ruin it for the rest. It just depends who weilds the power that s/he has gained. Anyone with power will use it, its all in a matter of how and for what purpose. To lump every tyrant that has come about as someone who was Christian is off base. You can take any person of significance and put a label on them. WWII, you can say Winston Churchill was a Christian, but you can also say that Hitler was a Christian too... two total opposites... but with the same applied title of "Christian".

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So God is the same as a shoe? Interesting product to compare God too. I can see the comparisons though. A very large shoe that has systematically stomped out the light of lives, religions, faiths and ruined the lives of millions of people through murder, rape, torture and pedophelia. But there is one difference in your analogy though. If you wear Nikes, the Reebok doesn't send soldiers to your house, drag you outside, nail Reeboks on your feet then beat you to death and hang you from the awning of your house.

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I am sure you knew I was illustrating... moving on.

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Tend to feel smothered?? Oh is that what you call it? We live in the Bible Belt unless you haven't taken the time to look around. There are more different styles of Christianity per square mile around here than most places in the world. You have Baptist, Southern Baptist, Catholisism and the list goes on and on. What is interesting is that each of them is different. So much so that other styles of Christianity look down on other ones. More of the "judging" thing. Baptists look down on Southern Baptists as being too fiery, Catholics look down on others for not being formal enough and on and on and on. So how can a religion that is based around the same exact thing, differ so much and cause strife? Once again, God isn't the problem, organized religion is.

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Again, I agree organized religion is a problem... and just because we live in the Bible Belt does not mean you have to surround yourself with people who are Christians..

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We are? Ok, show me the conclusive tests where it shows me God is real. Do that and our debate is over and you will have won. I'll be waiting.
This will be the end of our discussion I am sure because in the face of this simple yet enormous challenge, Christians throw up the blinders and revert back to faith. There is no proof and all you have to fall back too in your entire religious debate is a book. A heavily edited, humanly flawed book.

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Your statement about the falling tree with no sound is what we can call "natural".... We can test a hypothesis and come to a conclusion and in this instance, the outcome will always be the same because it is natural... so based on the science of reality (5 senses, touch, taste, etc) the end result is always 100% correct when tested again.

BUT if we, as people of science, believe in things that happen "naturally", who is to say that there is no "unnatural" or things that happen "unnaturally"... a parallel would be the glass half empty and half full. Both can be true and both can be false, the question remains is it half empty or half full?... IF we accept everything that happens naturally, even based on science ideology (which questions ALL outcomes), it would completely impoverish to rule out the unnatural.

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Um, wrong. Unlike the paragraph before, unless you missed the last 20 years of your life, didn't go to school or just plain cannot read, you will have learned that we have dated many things and have proved their age to be much older than 10,000 years. You know, things like rocks, bones, woods and many many more. I'm not sure if you were just talking without thinking in that paragraph but.....:???:

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If you read carefully, I did say that it was another sect that believed in their own beliefs... they stand by what they think and to me, thats ok, I respect that. Did I say I believe what they do, no I don't... and I know all about carbon dating and yes I know that we've found things much older than that... thats just their belief, and again, its the same as how scientist believe in a multiverse... the scientist AND the Young Earth Creationist, in my opinion, are in the same boat.

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So which is it? Do they need it or not? You keep saying that money isn't a factor here but you contradict yourself at least 3 times in that paragraph. Going to church doesn't cost you a dime, but if people don't go to church and tithe then nothing gets paid for because according to you the pastor doesn't need money, the church doesn't get money from any other outside source other than subjects. So which is it? Oh and churches DO cost taxpayers money because they are tax exempt so all income is kept in-house. If they paid their share of taxes like the rest of us then our tax burden would be easier no?

So since they don't need all that money, why don't they give it to charity? BECAUSE THEY NEED IT. For someone that claims to know religion you sure are a little fuzzy on the real world workings of things.

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Churches are suppose to be non profit organizations, so yes they are tax exempt because of this. I say suppose to be, because I don't know for certain if ALL churches are the same, so I only speak of the churches that I do know about... anyway, again, separating the church building from the church members, the Church building will have a mortgage just like any other property until paid off... yes... the church building will probably use electricity and other utilities that will cost money... yes, the church building will need upkeep and maintenance that cost money... yes. Members aside, the church building will cost money and so will need money yes. But my distinction are for the church as a community of people... the people do not need money to function as a church... the people do not need electricity and other utilities to function, that pastor can do without the money from the church... Even if you take away the physical structure that covers their heads, the people ARE the church, not the building.

and again, the church is nonprofit, so their budget MUST be $0.00 come January 1st. Any balance over that, is reported to the IRS as taxable.

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Really? Where are they now? Are they still spreading the word or are they back at home in their cozy church. I find your claim hard to believe, but it could happen. In this day and age though....hard to believe.

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Look up the term: Missionaries (not to be mistaken as a sex position) and yes 4 out of 7 people that i know are still overseas... 2 of them in Africa (Botswana and the other in Zimbabwe) another one in Thailand and the other in China. The other 3 came back for christmas to spend time with their families. 1 of them came from Peru, the other 2 (husband/wife) from Mongolia. and no I'm not messing with you, I'm dead serious.

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I can see this seeing as how the Catholic church has been responsible form 99% of the spread of Christianity and 99% of the death, turture and general mayhem right along with it. Must be kinda tough to swallow, sort of like having a brother in jail for murder.

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Sadly, the Catholics can be termed Christians, but I myself would term them as just Catholics who spread not Christianity, but Catholicism.

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All tangible things. I can tough my car, I can screw my girl, I can sit in my chair. Until you show me tangible on the whole God thing, it's just hearsay.

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Faith and trust are the exact same thing... faith in its noun form is considered for a belief. Faith as an adjective is simply trust. You have faith/trust in your car that it'll start and when it doesn't, you find out your engine has been stolen... or you have faith in your girl that shes not going to cheat on you, but when you find out she has... you still gunna screw her? Faith is trust... just as many people have faith in their cars and lovers, Christians have trust in God.

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Except that on my side are truths, scientific fact and tangible evidence. On your side is mysticism, magic and an old book. Once again, prove to me that God is real and you have won.

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Truth is relative, what is true for me may not be true for you. And again you ask for something natural from what I consider unnatural.

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Commendable. Of all the things you've said, I can agree with that. Christianity IS a lifestyle. If you live it correctly then good things should come to you. If you use it for personal gain, bad things should come to you. But you should never be ashamed of it. I am not suggesting that. I am simply suggesting that Christians look at facts and recognize that alot of what they choose to believe in is hocus pocus. For them to look facts dead in the eye and say "I don't believe it" but then turn right around and believe in a fictual being that can do wonderoursly magical things is like saying "I don't belive in the President of the United States, but by god I belive in Severus Snape"

It's just odd.

But either way, good debate. Maybe one day we will meet and we can have a drink. Me some beer and you, maybe some Blood of Christ Chablis 1934 or something :D

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Since I don't know what facts you talk about, then I can't draw a conclusion. But I myself can also say, "I don't belive in the President of the United States, but by god I belive in Severus Snape" because the way I read it, it considers the character of a person rather than the reality of them. Call it what you will, thats your belief... and I'll be safe in mine.

And I'm not much of a drinker, never developed a taste for beer, but I'm down with a margarita or a mixed drink.

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Originally Posted by KiTTY KA-T

well, heres my opinion, you cant disprove god, and you cant disprove science, so believe in what you want, and stop trying to put other people down for being in the same boat you are. we all may think we know the true answer, but in all reality, your theory is as good as mine, regardless of how far fetched it is.


not directed towards anyone in particular.

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true, you can disprove neither, but science provides solid evidence whereas faith does not. as for theory...religion has no theories, only beliefs. some people dont realize where christian beliefs originated or the inconsistencies and utter stupidity of certain aspects of the christian faith. very few people tend to question religion since they've been brainwashed since inception and will continue to brainwash their offspring. i used to be brainwashed. hell, i went to a private catholic school for 9 years. a school where the theory of evolution did not even exist. most people are so closed minded that they cant rationalize the facts because their mind rejects theories that conflict with their beliefs. i am neither trying to debate nor persuade anyone. i am just stating my standpoint...the logical one!

p.s. You are all sheep and establishment is your shepherd.

p.p.s. lol

Blogs like this are always funny to me. Another attempt to bash science with ignorance in an attempt to "discredit" it. I believe in God, but the people that write these things are idiots.

And the so called science professor in the blog has to be the biggest idiot of all:lmfao:


Edit: And the whole "you can't disprove it" arguement has to be the weakest of all. You might as well give up when thats the best arguement you can come up with. Disproving ANYTHING is much harder than finding supporting evidence.

Example: Did Bill Clinton sleep with that ho?

Supporting evidence: jizz on her dress

Disproof: Umm........because he said he didnt?:lmfao:

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Originally Posted by ahabion

I would respect you for it, I might not agree with it, but if thats what you want to believe and live by, thats your own decision. You've made that choice, not me... if you stand by what you believe in, then thats fine by me. Again, I don't have to agree with it, but I respect it if thats what you'd like to do. You are entitled to your own opinions, thoughts and beliefs.

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You seem to be confusing respect for someones right to have their own beliefs and respecting the content of those beliefs. They are two different things. For example, reusing the KKK, I respect their right to assemble and converse about their hatred but it doesn't mean I respect what they stand for. Same goes with Christianity.

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Originally Posted by bu villain

You seem to be confusing respect for someones right to have their own beliefs and respecting the content of those beliefs. They are two different things. For example, reusing the KKK, I respect their right to assemble and converse about their hatred but it doesn't mean I respect what they stand for. Same goes with Christianity.

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I think we're talking about the same thing. Basically, believe what you want to believe, but it doesn't mean I agree with it. :goodjob:

[QUOTE=MKIV VR6]true, you can disprove neither, but science provides solid evidence whereas faith does not. QUOTE]

Yes and no... yes science is real based on what we as humans understand it... but I wouldn't go as far to say that there is no God BECAUSE there is science.

Not to say thats what you were saying, but again, it stems back to creation vs evolution. The possibilities are probably endless... <=== (another thought, just because possibilities are endless, does that really mean they don't exist?)

"The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer."

— Albert Einstein

Anyone who can say they are 100% sure either way lacks true intelligence and the ability to think for themselves.

In refute to the claims of eyewitness accounts of Jesus - There are no first-person, contemprary, eye witness accounts of anything Jesus did. The gospels were all written in third person 30-40 years after the end of Jesus' ministry. We don't know who the authors really were. We've made educated assumptions in regards to their authorship. Given that none of the texts we have are in the author's hand, nor written in the first person, we have no real way of knowing anything about their authorship. None of them would be admissable as evidence of anything in any courtroom in the United States. Our flawed legal system has higher standards for credibility than Christianity does.

Most of the New Testament theology and doctrine comes from an egotistical man who claims to have had a miraculous conversion experience with no corroboration other than his own claims. Today we'd call that person a "nut case."

I think it's absolutely mind boggling that anyone would give credence to the mystical, superstitious, inconsistent, ignorant, thousands of years old writings of multiple authors over the peer reviewed, acredited, reality-based science of today. Makes no sense to me at all. And the only proof you have of your contrarian viewpoint is to say, 'I believe it.' Well, welcome to Heaven's Gate, or the People's Temple, or the Manson Family.

The Earth is not flat. It is not the center of the Universe. The stars and planets do not revolve around it. It is not carried on the back of a turtle, Atlas doesn't carry it on his shoulders, etc etc etc.

When I was churched, I always made a similar argument about Judas Iscariot. He's vilified by church tradition for betraying Jesus, but that makes absolutely no sense. He should be treated as a hero since he set about the chain of events leading to the crucifixion and eventually the resurrection. (if u belive the BS - lol). Seems he was the only one of the cowards that followed Jesus with enough spine to do what was necessary and to put his beliefs in action. Maybe the only one who didn't think he needed to stay on the gravy wagon and could see a bigger picture?

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Originally Posted by BABY J

The Earth is not flat. It is not the center of the Universe. The stars and planets do not revolve around it. It is not carried on the back of a turtle, Atlas doesn't carry it on his shoulders, etc etc etc.

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Astrology isn't something many religion supporters like to talk about when brought into a discussion about the worlds origin. I find it hilarious when people still believe that the earth was created in 7 days even though they went to school and had plenty of science classes that disproved that ludicrous idea.

"And the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the discernment of their discerning men shall be concealed." Isaiah 29:14
I Corinthians repeats this thought:
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scholar? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? I Corinthians 1:19
Man has used his theory and definitions of time to question the validity of the Bible. The major question is when was the earth formed. The differences in the Bible's version of creation and Science's Big Bang Theory is a function of time. Both consider the universe to have been instantaneously formed, the Bible says by the Word of God, thousands of years ago, and science says from the rapid expansion of a small particle, four billion years ago. However, science does not say where the small particle originated. The scientific theories and the Bible are in agreement that there was a super continent at the beginning of Earth. 35 But they differ greatly in the time frame in which the continents were set adrift.(See Days of Peleg) The scientific theories indicate that Pangaea, the name science has given to the super continent, started breaking up millions of years ago, 36 whereas the Bible states that it occurred in the days of Peleg. 37 If one takes the Biblical chronology literally, then the breakup of Gottsland, my name for the super continent, was approximately 4000 years ago. (For a complete discussion of the continental breakup see "The Days of Peleg" on the webpage.) This difference in time frames presents a significant problem.

It has been suggested that a continental breakup in Peleg's time, approximately 2000 B. C., would have caused great destruction on the earth and history shows evidence of civilization before that time. The effects of the continental breakup would be a function of how the event occurred and the point of reference. The scientific community agrees that the volcanic action and earthquakes are probably caused by the subduction and movement of land masses or plates, but this would occur only on the leading edge of the continental movement, not in the interior of the continents. There probably would have been surface destruction at the breakpoint of the continents, but it probably would not have been much effect on a very large percentage of the continent. It would be the same problem when the earth was divided. The atmospheric sheath would not necessarily be affected and ones in the interior of the continent would not notice a great change in their immediate environment and the area in the center of the movement would experience very little destruction if any. Thus the people around the center of the continental movement 38 would probably experience little or no disruption because there would be little or no perceivable movement at the epicenter. Any point on earth is traveling at more than 1000 miles per hour, relative to a reference point outside the atmosphere, but would be stationary if the reference point is on the earth. One does not experience any sensation of the speed because our environment moves at the same speed. The earth and its atmospheric sheath are also traveling 33,000 miles per hour in its orbit around the sun, but only the radiation effects are felt on earth.
This date is based on the sea-floor spreading measurements of 1.5 cm/yr, 39 which converts to 126,000 yrs/mi or 760 million years for the separation of the North American continent from Europe. The Sea-floor spreading movement data are based on estimates utilizing the information available, and these data indicate differences of hundreds of millions of years, depending on which continental movement is considered.. Scientific equipment and instrumentation were not available for direct measurements of this small incremental movement at the ocean depths of the mid Atlantic riff. Measurements taken during the International Geophysical Year (1967-68) indicate that the South American continent was moving away from Africa at the rate of 15 to 18 inches/year, placing the separation at 4 million years ago for the separation. Satellite measurements in 1971- 72, indicate an 11 in/yr movement, or approximately 6 million years for the separation. Satellite measurements for 1975 show an 8 in/yr movement yielding a separation time of almost 9 million years. These data would indicate that the speed of the continental movement is decreasing. The current Global Positioning Satellite System (GPS) measurements are taken at a different location but do show an additional slowdown in the rate of movement. These data were not available to the authors of the early continental drift articles when the 465 million year date was suggested.

Current research and studies on the continental movement are directed at modern affects on geophysics, volcanology and fault displacement, and are not challenging the original geometry or the time of the breakup of Pangaea because it has no bearing on their research. An extrapolation of the GPS data for South American data show that South America and Africa were joined between 87,000 and 2,000 years ago, the larger number being a linear extrapolation and the smaller a minimal exponential extrapolation. The extrapolation is based on insufficient data to be adamant about the time required for movement, but the methodology is the same as the extrapolation of the sea-floor spreading data used to arrive at the continental drift number. The whole point is none of the physical measurements provide sufficient data for an accurate extrapolation; however the new data from satellite measurements tend to show the continental drift started much later than 465 million years ago. Recent discussions with Dr. William A. Hess, former director of the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration's GPS program, indicated that at present the GPS system has 24 satellites in orbit, providing GPS data for the entire world and several new more sophisticated satellites are to be launched this year.

The current use of the GPS by earth scientists is focused on areas of interest concerning major faults and volcanoes. However, the receiving stations do provide information on continental drift and several countries including England, Japan, Peru, Brazil, and some African nations have installed or are installing receiving stations. Earth receiving stations see approximately 6 to 8 satellites at the same time. This translates into approximately 18 data points per satellite pass. Based on four satellite data signals for locating the receiving stations position, this produces a massive amount (approximately 100,000 data points per year per location) of actual locational data for analyzing the movement of the receiving station. These data will provide a much more accurate analyses of the continental movement by providing sufficient data for accurate extrapolations. The observation point of the satellite removes the problem of an earth bound reference point. The annual and five year averages over the next twenty years should indicate the extent of the slowing of the movement and provide the basis for an accurate extrapolation to the time of initial movement. The current physical data indicate thousands of years for the initial movement rather than 100's of millions of years since the breakup of Gottsland.
It appears that the initial breakup of Gottsland could have occurred in the days of Peleg. The geologic dating presents the same problems, since most methods of atomic dating are questionable beyond 10,000 years, and are also dependent on the speed of light. The Geologist and Earth Scientist use the index fossils to decide the age of the strata and the Archeologist uses the strata to determine the age of the fossils. Whose definition does one use?
The conclusion from the above is that God controls time and man can only measure it under controlled conditions.

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Originally Posted by Maniac©

Astrology isn't something many religion supporters like to talk about when brought into a discussion about the worlds origin. I find it hilarious when people still believe that the earth was created in 7 days even though they went to school and had plenty of science classes that disproved that ludicrous idea.

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if you would do some research Before posting comments then you would know that in the Bible it is said that 1 day for god is 1000 years here on earth. He made the earth in 7 days his time not ours.

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Originally Posted by Maniac©

Astrology isn't something many religion supporters like to talk about when brought into a discussion about the worlds origin. I find it hilarious when people still believe that the earth was created in 7 days even though they went to school and had plenty of science classes that disproved that ludicrous idea.

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Can you post said proof. Pretty sure everything out there is still a theory. There is no proof to support either side, so once again I'll post this:

"The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer." -Albert Einstein

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Originally Posted by YoTa_BoX

if you would do some research Before posting comments then you would know that in the Bible it is said that 1 day for god is 1000 years here on earth. He made the earth in 7 days his time not ours.

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7,000 years... That still doesn't come close to the actual age of the earth. LOL!

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Originally Posted by fcman

Can you post said proof. Pretty sure everything out there is still a theory. There is no proof to support either side, so once again I'll post this:

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You should know that there is proof, of the earth being wayyy older then 7,000 years. ;) Am I right or wrong?

im just stating what is written. you on the other hand didnt take the time to research what you were talking about, which is why you hold little water in a conversation like this. I'm not saying i do on the other hand...But for some one to start a conversation with out knowing the facts from both sides is sure as hell to go no where.

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Originally Posted by YoTa_BoX

im just stating what is written. you on the other hand didnt take the time to research what you were talking about, which is why you hold little water in a conversation like this. I'm not saying i do on the other hand...But for some one to start a conversation with out knowing the facts from both sides is sure as hell to go no where.

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You can think that all you want. But what makes you think I know nothing about the bible? I mean, it makes just as much sense as a dr. seuss book lol. You are analyzing my post way to hard man. Go back and read this whole thread if you really want to know what kind of knowledge I have on this subject.

Your post Maniac() You're right, evolution and the big bang theory haven't been physically or scientifically proven, but there have been clues about there exixtence. Evolution threw our fossil remains and the big bang threw the stars moving away from each other. We did NOT evolved from dinosaurs or cows. Dinosaurs and other reptiles existed way before some mammals. Around 65 million, not billion. The earth is thought to be only 4 billion years old. Anyways, sure there were rodents, but nothing big enough to give spark to actually primate evolution.




this seems to be the only statement that you made that holds any facts in either one of these discussions, all your other posts are just what you feel.

Im not analyzing anything to much...your just not doing enough research before you make a post about something you know little about. Your just going off Feelings and past unanswered prayers to fuel your rant.

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Originally Posted by YoTa_BoX

this seems to be the only statement that you made that holds any facts in either one of these discussions, all your other posts are just what you feel.

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There not feelings, but more of an "opinion" on the subject. People were posting their beliefs and so was I. Me and a few others were just having a discussion, nothing more. I wasn't out to make anyone think differently. I mean, who am I? Just another normal person just like everyone else... I have no powers whats so ever so why should I try to guide anyone? Even if its in a good path or evil?

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Originally Posted by YoTa_BoX

Im not analyzing anything to much...your just not doing enough research before you make a post about something you know little about. Your just going off Feelings and past unanswered prayers to fuel your rant.

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Im actually in the process of going to church and asking questions to the pastor. LOL but if I disbelieve in religion, in which that makes me evil. BUT im still allowed in the church, just so I can give 10%. What does that tell you? Dude, im not calling your faith childish. But everyone has different ways at looking at things. You have your ways and I have mine.

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Originally Posted by Maniac©

There not feelings, but more of an "opinion" on the subject. People were posting their beliefs and so was I. Me and a few others were just having a discussion, nothing more. I wasn't out to make anyone think differently. I mean, who am I? Just another normal person just like everyone else... I have no powers whats so ever so why should I try to guide anyone? Even if its in a good path or evil?

Im actually in the process of going to church and asking questions to the pastor. LOL but if I disbelieve in religion, in which that makes me evil. BUT im still allowed in the church, just so I can give 10%. What does that tell you? Dude, im not calling your faith childish. But everyone has different ways at looking at things. You have your ways and I have mine.

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That is great that your going to church and asking questions, I hope you find what your looking for. But when you start making statements which you know nothing about its better to stick to your opinion, than just blatantly say something you know little about. You are the one who made this thread God vs. Science you keep bringing up there is no proof this no proof that...yet you bring really nothing to either side of the conversation. Alls im saying is go do a hell of allot more research on both sides before you try making these kinds of posts.

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Originally Posted by YoTa_BoX

Alls im saying is go do a hell of allot more research on both sides before you try making these kinds of posts.

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I rather continue what im doing then waste my time reading a man made book. Religion members that posted in this thread had no proof either. Just like me, no one does. NOT even pastors. Are you saying they need to stop acting like they know everything and do more research before they start telling people whats right and whats wrong?

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Originally Posted by YoTa_BoX

That is great that your going to church and asking questions, I hope you find what your looking for. But when you start making statements which you know nothing about its better to stick to your opinion, than just blatantly say something you know little about. You are the one who made this thread God vs. Science you keep bringing up there is no proof this no proof that...yet you bring really nothing to either side of the conversation. Alls im saying is go do a hell of allot more research on both sides before you try making these kinds of posts.

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I find the idea that young earth creationists require that good, solid science be completely ignored and to instead believe in magic to be very insulting. To me, other believers should be offended by the suggestion.

Seriously, you guys are stuck in the Dark Ages.
* You either take the scientific stance that the age of the universe to be AT LEAST 13.9 billion years based on solid astrophysics and the amount of time it has taken light from the most distant objects we can see to reach Earth, or you believe in magic.
* You either take the scientific stance that the age of the Earth is 4.5 billion years based on solid geophysics and the geological record, or you believe in magic.
* You either take the scientific stance that living organisms inherently improve their abilities to process available energy through proven natural evolutionary processes (even at it's lowest simple forms -- bacteria/viruses), or you believe in magic.

You can't expect people to take you seriously, to put any credibility in what you say, as long as you take such a ridiculous stance. Whether or not you believe "God" was responsible for these processes is up to you, but whether or not these processes exist is simply not open to debate unless you have some cult-like mentality that eschews the reality that you're surrounded by. And believe me, concepts like dinorsaurs with saddles on them are definitely cult-like in their ridiculousness to any rational human being.

Now, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

god created chuck norris so there for

god > science

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Originally Posted by LS2_KID

god created chuck norris so there for

god > science

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I created God.

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Originally Posted by CHUCK NORRIS

I created God.

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Bwahahahaha!!! :lmao: you're the man dude!

[QUOTE=Maniac©]I rather continue what im doing then waste my time reading a man made book.[/QUOTE


If you dont want to research the other side of a Discussion you made then Keep it to Just your opinions. Don't try and state facts which you know nothing about. This has nothing to do with God vs. science as far as your posts go..They are just uneducated Rants about your opinion...Keep it that way and Leave the Facts to some one who is willing to do the Research on both sides of the subject. You say you are going to church and asking questions and its not really showing.

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Originally Posted by BABY J

I find the idea that young earth creationists require that good, solid science be completely ignored and to instead believe in magic to be very insulting. To me, other believers should be offended by the suggestion.

Seriously, you guys are stuck in the Dark Ages.
* You either take the scientific stance that the age of the universe to be AT LEAST 13.9 billion years based on solid astrophysics and the amount of time it has taken light from the most distant objects we can see to reach Earth, or you believe in magic.
* You either take the scientific stance that the age of the Earth is 4.5 billion years based on solid geophysics and the geological record, or you believe in magic.
* You either take the scientific stance that living organisms inherently improve their abilities to process available energy through proven natural evolutionary processes (even at it's lowest simple forms -- bacteria/viruses), or you believe in magic.

You can't expect people to take you seriously, to put any credibility in what you say, as long as you take such a ridiculous stance. Whether or not you believe "God" was responsible for these processes is up to you, but whether or not these processes exist is simply not open to debate unless you have some cult-like mentality that eschews the reality that you're surrounded by. And believe me, concepts like dinorsaurs with saddles on them are definitely cult-like in their ridiculousness to any rational human being.

Now, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

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and where in my posts did i say what i was for?

Who cares what you're for?

But it's pretty obv what "side" you are trying to defend. Don't act brand new... it's not sexy. My post is directed at any1 who is a bible thumper. If that's you - then it's meant for you - if not, carry on.:goodjob: