God vs. Science

Glides,

come on man.. this is your quote below!!!!!

Christianity was responsible for huge massacres right from the beginning.

Quote from the bible as said by Jesus. "And if any one will not receive you in your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town." (Matt. 10:14-15).

Also, isn't being christian all about forgiveness? Mark 3:29 "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin "

You don't honestly believe in that statement made by Jesus he was saying to go and kill people that don't rec' the gospel? first of all, he is referring to them not rec'ing you into there town with the good news of Jesus.. he is saying that if they don't rec' you then - don't bother.. the news has been offered to them and as far as the other statement about at the end of times.. the reason it will be harder on them is because they didn't rec' the news of God from any of his profits and now he sends his own Son and they reject him.. How much more harder will they be delt with..

Last one.. holy spirit and the forgiveness part. Thats truely hard for us all but God has said that he will not forgive those that blaspheme the holy spirit - You'll have to take that up with God himself - I just know I'm not going to mock him. But if it makes you feel better, those that choose satin will not be forgiven either.

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

Well, your true about it never registering with me.. I'm a believer for life.. As far as the facts.. I stated myself that I'm aware of Christians not always doing the right things.. especially the Catholic Roman Church - but that doesn't prove that God doesn't exist. Your saying that there were other gods before Jesus, there are several gods that people created and they have never done anything for them unless they imagined it. But the one and only True GOD has always been here! Even Jesus was with him in the beginning before the world was created.. we just didn't get to see him in man forum until Jesus was born..

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You contradict yourself there.

You are saying that there were other gods that didn't do anything unless the person that worshipped them imagined it. I say the exact same thing about you and your religion. Prove me wrong.

You say that the one and true god has always been there. How can you be so bold as to say that someone elses gods were imagined and yours is not? That takes some spiritual balls my friend for you to be so conceited as to think that yours is the only one and true way. So Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and all of them are just screwed? Laugh, take your head out of the clouds.

You cannot, and will never be able to prove me wrong simply for one reason, there is no concrete proof of any single thing that god has done. You say he created the earth, I say it was created naturally over billions of years. You say that God created life, sicence has proven life's creation. Everything that you claim to say is a miracle of God has been proven by science. Prove to me there is a heaven. You can't and you won't be able too. The only person you can prove it to is yourself and other believers of your faith. Outside of your faith, it is all nothing.

Now, the downside to this scientific thing is that there is no wonder and magic left in the world. One thing Christ had going for him was magic. Christians attacked Harry Potter for witchcraft, but wasn't god a magician in the truest sense of the word? Having magical powers to turn water into wine, split bread to feed thousands. All of that is magic or sorcery.

Lets check some out shall we.

Exodus 14: Moses parts the Red Sea -with a serpent/staff. Joshua 3:16: Joshua parts the Jordan -when feet of Priests touched water

Kings 17:1; 18:45: Elijah commands rain (see also James 5:17) - pretty much a Wizardry thing

John 2:9: Jesus turns water to wine - Like Dionysus , god of Wine before him, and celebrated by "the Church" on the same day that Dionysus did it. Interesting. Borrowed from another religion yet again.

Let's not even start on Revelations and it's incredible likenesses to magic. To any child who read revelations and watched Harry Potter, they are one in the same. But yet religious nuts and bible thumpers are quick to trounce on Harry Potter, along with the Pope and condemn it.

When all is said and done, all you have to fall on is your faith in a book that was edited by Romans to include what they wanted to you read and know. You are a slave to your religion and in the hopefully not false prophecies of a religion that is responsible for more murders throughout history than any other single entity combined. But sleep better knowing that you can sling your deadly religion as much as you want, commit any sin you want short of blaspheming the holy spirit and then go to church, toss a few dollars in the collection plate and ask forgiveness. That makes it all better. Money and grovelling.

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

Hey Alex,

What did you think us Christians believed in???
You do understand that not only do we believe that he was a real person but, hold on - you might want to sit down for this one - our entire faith is based on the fact that he died and was resurrected on the 3rd day.
So its def. not a ignorant statement!

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Have you watched the video I posted? There are like three links in this thread. Why don't you get yourself a nice glass of orange juice and a nice snack and enjoy the show. It'll explain that three day resurrection theory christains believe in.

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Originally Posted by Glides

You contradict yourself there.

You are saying that there were other gods that didn't do anything unless the person that worshipped them imagined it. I say the exact same thing about you and your religion. Prove me wrong.

You say that the one and true god has always been there. How can you be so bold as to say that someone elses gods were imagined and yours is not? That takes some spiritual balls my friend for you to be so conceited as to think that yours is the only one and true way. So Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and all of them are just screwed? Laugh, take your head out of the clouds.

You cannot, and will never be able to prove me wrong simply for one reason, there is no concrete proof of any single thing that god has done. You say he created the earth, I say it was created naturally over billions of years. You say that God created life, sicence has proven life's creation. Everything that you claim to say is a miracle of God has been proven by science. Prove to me there is a heaven. You can't and you won't be able too. The only person you can prove it to is yourself and other believers of your faith. Outside of your faith, it is all nothing.

Now, the downside to this scientific thing is that there is no wonder and magic left in the world. One thing Christ had going for him was magic. Christians attacked Harry Potter for witchcraft, but wasn't god a magician in the truest sense of the word? Having magical powers to turn water into wine, split bread to feed thousands. All of that is magic or sorcery.

Lets check some out shall we.

Exodus 14: Moses parts the Red Sea -with a serpent/staff. Joshua 3:16: Joshua parts the Jordan -when feet of Priests touched water

Kings 17:1; 18:45: Elijah commands rain (see also James 5:17) - pretty much a Wizardry thing

John 2:9: Jesus turns water to wine - Like Dionysus , god of Wine before him, and celebrated by "the Church" on the same day that Dionysus did it. Interesting. Borrowed from another religion yet again.

Let's not even start on Revelations and it's incredible likenesses to magic. To any child who read revelations and watched Harry Potter, they are one in the same. But yet religious nuts and bible thumpers are quick to trounce on Harry Potter, along with the Pope and condemn it.

When all is said and done, all you have to fall on is your faith in a book that was edited by Romans to include what they wanted to you read and know. You are a slave to your religion and in the hopefully not false prophecies of a religion that is responsible for more murders throughout history than any other single entity combined. But sleep better knowing that you can sling your deadly religion as much as you want, commit any sin you want short of blaspheming the holy spirit and then go to church, toss a few dollars in the collection plate and ask forgiveness. That makes it all better. Money and grovelling.

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We could go back and forward about what is real and what is not real.. You believe what you belive and I don't consider you dumb for it.. However, I do believe that there is only one way to heaven - Through Jesus Christ. I'm not trying to be ballsey - its just what i believe. I don't believe that just because you choose to believe in anything God is going to give you a get into heaven free card.. You have to believe in him and rec' his son Jesus. As far as the religion... I don't believe that I can do any thing i want to and just ask for forgivness and all is well.. Truely God does forgive us because we believe in him but we can't just act like fools other wise it proves that we really don't believe in him or worshop him.. I'm not a slave to my belief, I'm a son and a child of God..

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Originally Posted by Alex11

Sorry, I don't understand...

What you consider as "he" isn't exactly what you would call someone a leader. He doesn't lead you to happiness nor any of the nice things people desire. You calm to believe in jesus, it's like me believing in the tooth fairy. I have never seen her, but I was told as a child that she existed so it must be true. But how, if I never saw her? So now that im alittle more grown up, I realize that those childish storys were nothing more than that, storys.

So you would sacrifice your life for him? I mean you would do anything, right? But isn't taking your own life, considered a sin?

If there is proof of it once existing, than why question it? Unlike Jesus, there hasn't been any proof to his existence, nothing but a few fictional storys here and there.

If you pray for something you truely desire, I mean REALLY pray. And you never receive it, what happens then? Do you stop praying and move on, or do you continue wasting your time begging a man made figure til you receive it?

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Of course He is a good leader.. he leads us into plenty of good things.. Even the fruit of the spirit is full of great things, gentleness, meekness, forgiveness, love, kindness, etc....

I would give my life for Jesus!! in a heart beat!! but I wouldn't take my life.. :umno: Thats for idiots.. No one needs to give there life but, if someone said I'll shoot you if you believe in Jesus or If you say you don't believe in him I'll let you live.. I would be dead! And proud to be. I would never say i don't believe in my SAVIOR!!

Praying.. its not a magic lamp that you wish with and get all your desires.. other wise I would be rich... There are three responses to your prayers.. YES, NO, and WAIT.. God knows whats best for you and if what you desire is what you really need. I prayed for a new acura cl when they first came out but I never got one.. reason probably being - I coudn't afford it and I would of probably gotten it repossed..

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

We could go back and forward about what is real and what is not real.. You believe what you belive and I don't consider you dumb for it.. However, I do believe that there is only one way to heaven - Through Jesus Christ. I'm not trying to be ballsey - its just what i believe. I don't believe that just because you choose to believe in anything God is going to give you a get into heaven free card.. You have to believe in him and rec' his son Jesus. As far as the religion... I don't believe that I can do any thing i want to and just ask for forgivness and all is well.. Truely God does forgive us because we believe in him but we can't just act like fools other wise it proves that we really don't believe in him or worshop him.. I'm not a slave to my belief, I'm a son and a child of God..

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Understood. It is nice to actually talk to a christian that isn't oppressive. There are so few of them.

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Originally Posted by Alex11

Have you watched the video I posted? There are like three links in this thread. Why don't you get yourself a nice glass of orange juice and a nice snack and enjoy the show. It'll explain that three day resurrection theory christains believe in.

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No i watched a little of it but just a lot of killing and stuff i don't believe.. but trust me i'm sure I've heard it if its got to do with Jesus not rising from the dead...

I've been through too much and he has always been there for me because i called on Him.. No one could ever take that away from me!

Even when i don't deserver his mercy and grace - He still keeps working with me. There is nothing like the Love of Jesus!

I love him with all that I am and if that makes me stupid, dump, blind, crazy, then charge me guilty! :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by Glides

Understood. It is nice to actually talk to a christian that isn't oppressive. There are so few of them.

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I agree, and even though we have different beliefs - GLIDES, I respect you!

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

Of course He is a good leader.. he leads us into plenty of good things.. Even the fruit of the spirit is full of great things, gentleness, meekness, forgiveness, love, kindness, etc....

I would give my life for Jesus!! in a heart beat!! but I wouldn't take my life.. :umno: Thats for idiots.. No one needs to give there life but, if someone said I'll shoot you if you believe in Jesus or If you say you don't believe in him I'll let you live.. I would be dead! And proud to be. I would never say i don't believe in my SAVIOR!!

Praying.. its not a magic lamp that you wish with and get all your desires.. other wise I would be rich... There are three responses to your prayers.. YES, NO, and WAIT.. God knows whats best for you and if what you desire is what you really need. I prayed for a new acura cl when they first came out but I never got one.. reason probably being - I coudn't afford it and I would of probably gotten it repossed..

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Things never seemed to flow nicely for me, I used to pray as a child.. yeah I did. I was rasied as a catholic, so I always thought life would be something that was full of happiness and that evil was nothing but a word. I learned the hard way, that not a single thing church taught me was true. I remember praying for a certain thing, almost every night as a child. I would sometimes even cry, that desire of mine. Never came, so I stopped. I learned that if you want something, you have to work for it and earn it yourself. God has never done anything for me, nothing that could be considered a gift of the lord.
You keeping saying the same thing over and over again. I can't wait to see how you react to the new inventions human kind will be coming up with in the future, we will be able to bring back the dead. Of course if they've only been gone for a certain time. We will live longer, will know alot more than we do now. We will reach a stage were religion would be nothing more than a memory.

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

I agree, and even though we have different beliefs - GLIDES, I respect you!

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You too man. Nothing wrong with beliefs as long as you respect that others have different ones. That's why these discussions are always bad at any sort of social gathering because they always end up bad.

who gives a **** about what someone believes in the only thing that should matter to you is your own beliefs.

No i dont believe in god but I wont down someone just because they need something more to help them through this ****hole we call life

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

I'm being a smart guy but I don't mean to be a jerk!! Just trying to make a statement>>>
Sounds like you would like to sit down at a table and use a special software to create a god, tell him how you want to live your life and how he should do this, this, and this.. It's been done through out history BUT,

Remember He created you!! You didn't create Him! And you can use that for any god you serve...

And our God has heard our cries during plenty of situations.. where you believe in the bible or not, they are facts.. Moses was a real person and he was choosen to lead the people out of bondage. Jesus was a real person who was crucified for no reason, but to take the sins of the world - that it might be saved. And he was resurrected and there were several witnesses, believers and non believers(which were converted at the sight of Jesus because they knew he had been killed 3 days earlier). And Jesus said that he does not do his work but, the work of the Father - being God. Christians believe in a real person, Jesus. Now, what God do you believe in and where is the evidence of any existance?

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holy side step batman!

why dont you actually answer my questions? oh thats right you cant, apparently.

i want to create god? HA thats funny. why? because i ask questions that hold water in this argument and you have no answer for them?

good one :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

Here is a way that you can prove to your self if he exists..
The bible says that God said "If you seek me you shall find me"

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wow.

you are wrong on that statement. i had searched, you knwo what i found?


nothing that resembles YOUR god :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by Wurm

who gives a **** about what someone believes in the only thing that should matter to you is your own beliefs.

No i dont believe in god but I wont down someone just because they need something more to help them through this ****hole we call life

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180% turns are great.

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Originally Posted by Glides

180% turns are great.

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what is a 180 percent turn? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by Alex11

Things never seemed to flow nicely for me, I used to pray as a child.. yeah I did. I was rasied as a catholic, so I always thought life would be something that was full of happiness and that evil was nothing but a word. I learned the hard way, that not a single thing church taught me was true. I remember praying for a certain thing, almost every night as a child. I would sometimes even cry, that desire of mine. Never came, so I stopped. I learned that if you want something, you have to work for it and earn it yourself. God has never done anything for me, nothing that could be considered a gift of the lord.
You keeping saying the same thing over and over again. I can't wait to see how you react to the new inventions human kind will be coming up with in the future, we will be able to bring back the dead. Of course if they've only been gone for a certain time. We will live longer, will know alot more than we do now. We will reach a stage were religion would be nothing more than a memory.

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Alex, I'm sorry that things happened the way they did for you brother. I know its hard to pray and feel like your prayers never get answered but we have to remember that we can't control God and He doesn't control us. It sounds like you have been hurt and I wish it was something that i could do to reverse that! I just want you to know this - God is not God because of what he can give us - He is God because He is... I know that it probably doesn't make much sense but, I'm trying to say : we can't just call him God if he gives us everything we want. We have to call him God and know that we may never know why He does what He does. Brother I know that some where in your heart you remember God being there for you, whether is was in your prayers as a child or even just having that feeling that you can't explain. Think back and don't let the worries and messed up things of the world let you forget about the God that accepted you just as you were, asking nothing else of you at the time but that you believe in him. He has already touched you and once you have been touched by God - You may run away but he never lets you go... Its not to late to come back home brother. God Bless. (I hope that all makes some kind of sense, I'm sorry - i got a little emotional listening to what you wrote)

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Originally Posted by Hulud

holy side step batman!

why dont you actually answer my questions? oh thats right you cant, apparently.

i want to create god? HA thats funny. why? because i ask questions that hold water in this argument and you have no answer for them?

good one :goodjob:

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Hulud,

I've responded to so many of the comment bro.. whats your question?

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Originally Posted by Hulud

wow.

you are wrong on that statement. i had searched, you knwo what i found?


nothing that resembles YOUR god :goodjob:

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So tell me what did you find? I'm curious!! and how did you seek him?

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Originally Posted by Hulud

holy side step batman!

why dont you actually answer my questions? oh thats right you cant, apparently.

i want to create god? HA thats funny. why? because i ask questions that hold water in this argument and you have no answer for them?

good one :goodjob:

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Also, I'm curious! So what god do you serve? or is it science and if its science whats the belief now.. rock feel from space hit earth - monkeys were born and everything evolved from that? humer me.. its been a while sense i followed science.. forgive any miss spelling..

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

rock feel from space hit earth - monkeys were born and everything evolved from that?

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When is the last time you took a science class?

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Originally Posted by C22H19N3O4

When is the last time you took a science class?

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It's been about 12 years.. thats why i said update me..

I've heard the rock hitting the earth theory and that we were all monkeys and evolved from that.. Science not really one of my interest so If it was discussed - i really didn't pay attention to it. So if you are willing to explain it to me - then i'm listening... :D

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Originally Posted by JDMEK18

It's been about 12 years.. thats why i said update me..

I've heard the rock hitting the earth theory and that we were all monkeys and evolved from that.. Science not really one of my interest so If it was discussed - i really didn't pay attention to it. So if you are willing to explain it to me - then i'm listening... :D

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That would take too much time. Just stick with your religious convictions. :D

I do applaud you for being able to stand your ground w/o lashing out as some have in the past. :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by C22H19N3O4

I do applaud you for being able to stand your ground w/o lashing out as some have in the past. :goodjob:

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Can't believe I agree with you on something.

Thanks for the compliment and I try to keep my cool in everything because i learned that angur doesn't move anyone.. only love does.. as girly as that sounds..

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Originally Posted by Hulud

what is a 180 percent turn? :thinking:

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Wasn't directed at you, was directed at Wurm.

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Originally Posted by Glides

Wasn't directed at you, was directed at Wurm.

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oh i know, but did yo mean degree?

cause i dont know what a percent turn was so i was jw

180 turn to what lirl

where did this thread come from... go a day and BAM there it is...

I don't know why its always Christians being picked apart all the time. There are a lot of other religions out there. I guess whatever is popular... oh well. In any case, believe what you want, its your life... do with it as you want. To each their own.

I myself am a Christian, I would like to think I lead a good example... I don't look down at my atheist, buddhist, taoist, and gnostic friends. I encourage them to continue to believe what they believe in. I encourage them to go to their functions at their place of worship instead of hanging out with me on late Saturday night runs. I believe, within my own self, that those who believe in what they seek, all roads will lead them to God... that is my personal conviction, so they don't need me jamming my beliefs into their throats... heck, Jesus said to Peter (ghetto style) "throw your net on the otherside, you'll catch more fish that way."

God don't need help from Christians or anyone else. The finite will never completely ever understand the infinite.

Let me start by saying that I am an engineering student who went to an episcopalian elementary and middle school, so I am intimately familiar with both science and religion. I do "practice" science more than I do religion nowadays, so I may be slightly biased. That being said, here we go:

First of all, the whole idea behind "faith" is that someone belives in something, not because there is evidence to support it, but because that is what they fundamentally believe from the depths of their soul. True faith cannot be shaken by a lack of evidence or even by evidence that would disporve the beliefs in question.

Second of all, and more importantly, does it matter if god exists or not? See, I think that peoples' belief in god is more important than the existence of god. Belief in god is a very powerful force. The belief in god causes people to determine the set of ethical values by which they live their lives. The belief in god causes people to go war and kill other people. If even the BELIEF in god is powerful enough to cause all that, does it really matter whether god exists or not?

I'll reply to post's number 188 and 189, tomorrow. Kinda tired, and this will proabably be along one...

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Originally Posted by Hulud

true

my point about the null and void comment is look at the aztecs or greeks or any other religion that not here, they are gone. why? because other things have come up to change the publics view of "god"

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actually these civilizations were conquered. Roman empired trampled Greece and the Aztec/Mayan civilizations fell to western spain and portugese... the greeks later adopted Roman theology into their own, many migrated to Rome. the aztec/mayans... simply killed off or sold to the slave markets.

on a different parallel, look at the native americans... they weren't killed off totally but they still carry their beliefs and culture... and how long ago have they been doing that??? since before the white man showed up thats for sure...

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Originally Posted by n2daizo123

Say something off the wall happens and aliens land on earth and make their presence know. In genesis the bible says nothing about extra terrestrials when god created earth. Would the Christians follow ignorance and deny them or deny faith and accept them. Why doesn't genesis mention anything about the other planets?

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doesnt say specifically "God created Jupiter.." but it does say, God created the heavens and the Earth.

same thing goes how he creates Man and from man, creates woman (adam and eve) but it doesn't say he creates peggy sue and darlene or anyone else... it says that the children (cain and abel) get wives... so its assumed that God created more people in the world than ONLY adam and eve, tho they may have been the first...

Both of which are irrelevant to what is conveyed within the text and what is trying to be told.

So say if aliens land on earth and make their presence known... soooo.... what? there they are... what do you want us to do about it???

ALL HAIL THE GREEK GODS OF ICE PENIS AND BIG BLACK TITS
http://www.freewebs.com/cosmologies/...onsters-II.gif

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Originally Posted by BABY J

So... things are good for YOU huh? That's awesome... what about the people that die of hunger and thirst asking God for invisible help that never arrives? You're so f*ckin selfish - just like other Christians. The simple fact is that God is NOT good to a good percentage of the world's population.

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Is it God thats not good to a good percentage of the world, or is it a good percentage of the world is NOT good to the rest of the world??? If you claim that its God's fault, then you can say that what you saw was God at work... since it was his fault, based on your statement. So you then acknowledge that there is a God... BUT on the otherhand, lets just say that it was the good percentage of the world NOT good to the rest of the world... then that would take God out of the picture and really give us a sense of responsibility and ownership to the people dying of hunger and thirst... and of course thats not the case because we all love our fellow man... even those dying in the street, or the bum asking for change... right?

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You're also forgetting that there are PLENTY of religions... religions that YOU would denounce as not "THE" religion - they get that SAME feeling that you say that you get. So who's right - let me guess, YOU are.:rolleyes:

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I don't think she denounced any other religion...

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The simple factis that you are product of your environment. I have seen people die in the streets while begging and pleading for invisible help from God that never arrives. I think RELIGION is the worst thing to happen to spirituality. God (if there is one) would be too big to fit inside of 1 religion... yet Christianity is one of the most arrogant of all the religions. Honestly I grew up in church and accepted him as Lord and Savior as kid... after spending 8 years in the military and seeing things that most will NEVER believe could happen is when I had doubts, and have had doubts every since. Am I SPIRITUAL? Yes. I think that most things have a good spirit or a bad spirit. But am I religious? No. Why do you speak English? Most likely b/c your parents did --> you are a product of your environment. Look on your kitchen counter and chances are you use the same dish detergent that your mom did. So here's the skinny... you are born in China (by NO fault of your own, and you are a Buddhist). You die and go to hell b/c of that? I am NOT buying the RELIGIOUS separation that exists... if God said "come as you are" then why are Christians trying to "convert" others to Christianity? I get it God can do ANYTHING - anything except save people from other countries and other religions. Guess he's not al ALL mighty afterall. And even Christians have MANY seprations in their own religion. Ask a Presbyterian why they are Presbyterian and they will most likely not be able to answer. In fact, ask them why they are Presbyterian vs Methodist and chances are they will not even be able to tell you what the difference is. Fickle crowd, and as humans we always will be. There is not a preacher on Earth that has told me anything more than what a good mom and dad can tell me. Don't steal? No ****! I do not need a preacher to tell me good common sense about treating others right. I could go on...

Bottom line, if you were adopted at birth by a Japanese family, chances are greater than not that you'd 1) speak Japanese and 2) be a Buddhist and SWEAR by Buddhism as much as you swear by Christianity today.

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if you are really saying that you are a by product of the environment around you, thats about half the truth... because there comes a time in your life that you MAKE CHOICES on who you are and who you want to be... just because my parents raised us up in the projects and we lived on welfare, does not mean I will too...

I grew up a preacher's Kid, do i say or lay claim to others that i have my fathers faith? NO... because I found my own faith and my own truth to life. I hated church growing up because it was redundant and boring... but as i grew older and learned to make choices, I decided who I wanted to be and what I wanted to believe, not my parents.

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Originally Posted by ahabion

God don't need help from Christians or anyone else. The finite will never completely ever understand the infinite.

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Actually when you really think about it, God needs every humans help. Cause without the thought of his existence he will no longer exist. Without believers the "mighty" savior would be nothing more than another myth, along a long line of myths that have been taught in the past.
The churches all over the world would fall apart if they didn't have the help from anyone. Our money, is what holds them up, running, it pays their electrical bills, water bills, ect. So your comment holds no true facts.

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Originally Posted by ThaABomb

Second of all, and more importantly, does it matter if god exists or not? See, I think that peoples' belief in god is more important than the existence of god. Belief in god is a very powerful force. The belief in god causes people to determine the set of ethical values by which they live their lives. The belief in god causes people to go war and kill other people. If even the BELIEF in god is powerful enough to cause all that, does it really matter whether god exists or not?

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It's important to a certain extent. For those that believe in something that hasn't been scientifically proven to exist or to have ever existed, must been shown their waste of time trying to achieve something that will not be awarded at the end. Some may believe they will, others like myself don't. I believe that as long as you don't live a life of doing mean and harmful things there is no reason you can be considered evil. Although I haven't killed anyone, im sure some activity's I've done would put me in a category that most christians, catholics or whatever would dislike.

I think its funny when Christians quote the bible and think it means something to someone who is not Christian. I have searched for a logical reason that leads me to believe in God but I have yet to find one.

Whats the meaning of life?
How did we get here?
etc.

To me the answer is "I don't know" not "it was God". Does anyone actually have a logical path that leads to God?

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Originally Posted by Alex11

Actually when you really think about it, God needs every humans help. Cause without the thought of his existence he will no longer exist. Without believers the "mighty" savior would be nothing more than another myth, along a long line of myths that have been taught in the past.
The churches all over the world would fall apart if they didn't have the help from anyone. Our money, is what holds them up, running, it pays their electrical bills, water bills, ect. So your comment holds no true facts.

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it does hold true that God does not need anyone, especially Christians, because as many other Christians know, there was nothing to begin with anyway, and yet He still already existed.

Don't confuse God with churches, because the church (in its physical form) is only a place of fellowship and communion for those ppl to meet. The church, as in a people or community sense, does not need money, electricity, or anything physically to exist. (ie: particularly churchs in poverish places, they need not a building, money, or electricty to function)

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Originally Posted by Alex11

It's important to a certain extent. For those that believe in something that hasn't been scientifically proven to exist or to have ever existed, must been shown their waste of time trying to achieve something that will not be awarded at the end.

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In all reality, the beginning of life has yet to be scientifically proven. Even based on the Big Bang theory and evolution itself has yet to still be scientifically proven, because for scientist and others alike, there has to be definitive proof of what can be seen and witnessed. No one was there to witness the first enzymes that collected in the pool of slime/mud/whever you wanna call it, and no on was there to examine and witness the evolutionary process of (i dare say) ANY living animal or creature over the expanse of a few millenia. If we came from apes or cows from some type of dinosaur, or anything else, why are we carbon dating fossils of dinosaurs (that existed 65 billion years ago) and yet can not find the evolutionary skeletal remains of everything else inbetween (the evolutionary changes from for example: dino to cow?)

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Some may believe they will, others like myself don't. I believe that as long as you don't live a life of doing mean and harmful things there is no reason you can be considered evil. Although I haven't killed anyone, im sure some activity's I've done would put me in a category that most christians, catholics or whatever would dislike.

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if they judge you, thats on their own conciousness and you shouldn't worry about it. Pre-martial sex, sure who hasn't, stealing... plenty of times, cursing and swearing... still do from time to time... no one is perfect... but I think what you are talking about is simply, Morality. Has science proven that?

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Originally Posted by bu villain

I think its funny when Christians quote the bible and think it means something to someone who is not Christian. I have searched for a logical reason that leads me to believe in God but I have yet to find one.

Whats the meaning of life?
How did we get here?
etc.

To me the answer is "I don't know" not "it was God". Does anyone actually have a logical path that leads to God?

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Logically, we can accept that most things in the world happen naturally or meaning that it is of nature. But I do object to the assumption that anything that might be outside of nature is ruled out of the conversation, [such as God.] That's an impoverished view of the kinds of questions we humans can ask, such as "Why am I here?", "What happens after we die?", "Is there a God?" If you refuse to acknowledge their appropriateness, you end up with a zero probability of God after examining the natural world because it doesn't convince you on a proof basis. But if your mind is open about whether God might exist, you can point to aspects of the universe that are consistent with that conclusion.
-Francis Collins- a geneticist, he headed a multinational 2,400-scientist team that co-mapped the 3 billion biochemical letters of our genetic blueprint