New Stadium for the Braves

[Vteckidd]

You just ignored the math. The bottom line is that the 3 events per year that the county can hold will not cover the cost of the stadium that the county has to pay out. It's not even remotely close.

You want to know who will make the money on the restaurants? Let me ask, which restaurants? I hope that you mean the new ones that they will build in the stadium complex, because the ones in Cumberland Mall, like Uncle Vito's New York Pizza, won't make money off it it, but Cumberland Mall falls inside the new Cumberland District tax zone, which is expected to bring in $5.15M each year in tax revenue. The manager of the pizza restaurant is already concerned that the management of Cumberland Mall is just going to pass the tax down to him through raising the rent, but it is highly unlikely that people going to the game are going to go to the mall first to eat pizza.
When the game is over, most people don't hang out around the stadium patronizing local restaurants - especially the evening games (you know, when the mall is already closed).

The real issue is how much of the cost of a stadium that is being built for the benefit of a private entity is going to be paid for in public funds. Should county taxpayers start funding the building of Wal-Marts next? After all, those generate traffic and create jobs as well.

SO . MUCH . HOSTILITY. I Was honestly asking, wasnt rhetorical. I thought maybe you knew, I know there was discussion of the braves splitting profit or something on the restaurants. If COBB owns all the property around the complex, then all those restaurants = RENT MONEY and TAXES for 30 years. Money you arent factoring in

As far as your estimation, i disagree. Cobb County OWNS THE STADIUM. Its THEIR PROPERTY. In 30 years the braves will stay, or move on, and Cobb will still own the land, property, etc. Cobb will make money on this , EASILY, without breaking a sweat.

As to uncle vito , i disagree. Tourism is Tourism. he SHOULD see more customers, foot traffic, shoppers, etc. That area they are talking about building Hotels and such to it could be a nice little hub in North Atlanta.

Cobb COunty is going to have to come up with around 100-150 million over the next 30 years, Im sure taxes will be raised, but how much and to whom? Not sure I have seen that (unless you know where that is explained).

[David88vert]

SO . MUCH . HOSTILITY. I Was honestly asking, wasnt rhetorical. I thought maybe you knew, I know there was discussion of the braves splitting profit or something on the restaurants. If COBB owns all the property around the complex, then all those restaurants = RENT MONEY and TAXES for 30 years. Money you arent factoring in

As far as your estimation, i disagree. Cobb County OWNS THE STADIUM. Its THEIR PROPERTY. In 30 years the braves will stay, or move on, and Cobb will still own the land, property, etc. Cobb will make money on this , EASILY, without breaking a sweat.

As to uncle vito , i disagree. Tourism is Tourism. he SHOULD see more customers, foot traffic, shoppers, etc. That area they are talking about building Hotels and such to it could be a nice little hub in North Atlanta.

Cobb COunty is going to have to come up with around 100-150 million over the next 30 years, Im sure taxes will be raised, but how much and to whom? Not sure I have seen that (unless you know where that is explained).

I wasn't try to come across as hostile. I didn't realize that you were genuinely asking that question either, as there has been a lot of discussion online about it already, and I made the assumption that you were already informed on it, and were asking as a rhetorical response only. That assumption is my mistake, sorry for it.

Actually, I am factoring in the tax revenue from the local businesses. There are two special taxes for that Cumberland area attached to this proposal already. Those figures include the new hotel tax and district tax. Under the proposed plan, the county would use a mix of $9.61 million in existing revenue and $8.29 million in new taxes on business and tourism to collect the $17.9 million per year to cover the principal and interest of its share of the 30-year bonds that would be issued, according to the terms. They haven't said yet what revenue sources might be used for capital maintenance expenses to be shared 50/50 by the team and the county (see page 8 , section 9 of the stadium proposal). Of the new taxes, the county plan calls for $5.5 million would be generated annually through a new levy on area businesses, as well as $400,000 in a new 3 percent car rental tax in unincorporated parts of the county and $2.7 million from a new $3 per-room, per-night charge for surrounding hotels and motels.

Property will be owned by the Cobb-Marietta Coliseum and Exhibit Hall Authority. It will be operated by the Braves though. In 30 years, what will the stadium sell for? Who many are lining up to buy Turner Field right now? Who did Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium sell to back in the 1990s?

Do you know why it is especially bad for restaurants in Cumberland Mall, like Uncle Vito's? They have to pay out the tax money as it will likely be factored into their rent, yet they won't get the customers. Do you know why? Because the Braves are planning on building their own $400M entertainment complex complete with restaurants. Tourists aren't going to travel over to the old mall when the new dedicated entertainment plaza is where they already are at.
Braves unveil stadium entertainment district plan | www.wsbtv.com

Cobb County has already factored in a tax for hotels, and for the Cumberland district. Where else can they go for money other than the local residents and businesses? How will those local residents see a return on their public money being used to build a local business?

Right now, it appears that 55% of Cobb residents are against it, but Lee's plans to only listen to 6 residents before voting. Doesn't that strike you as being not in the public's best interest?
Even worse, look at what he predicted earlier:
County leader predicts unanimous vote on stadium | www.wsbtv.com
Sure sounds like he already knows of some backroom deals.

IMO, Cobb county residents should be voting on any expenditure this big and should have all of the details ahead of time. I'm surprised that you would feel differently. When Obamacare was voted on without time to read the legislation, you certainly didn't have the same viewpoint that you have now.

[Vteckidd]

I wasn't try to come across as hostile. I didn't realize that you were genuinely asking that question either, as there has been a lot of discussion online about it already, and I made the assumption that you were already informed on it, and were asking as a rhetorical response only. That assumption is my mistake, sorry for it.

You seem VASTLY more informed than me on this matter, so im genuinely asking sir Im not being facetious or condescending.

Actually, I am factoring in the tax revenue from the local businesses. There are two special taxes for that Cumberland area attached to this proposal already. Those figures include the new hotel tax and district tax. Under the proposed plan, the county would use a mix of $9.61 million in existing revenue and $8.29 million in new taxes on business and tourism to collect the $17.9 million per year to cover the principal and interest of its share of the 30-year bonds that would be issued, according to the terms.

That pays for principal AND interest right? So stadium=Paid for out of these new taxes?

They haven't said yet what revenue sources might be used for capital maintenance expenses to be shared 50/50 by the team and the county (see page 8 , section 9 of the stadium proposal).

Understood

Of the new taxes, the county plan calls for $5.5 million would be generated annually through a new levy on area businesses, as well as $400,000 in a new 3 percent car rental tax in unincorporated parts of the county and $2.7 million from a new $3 per-room, per-night charge for surrounding hotels and motels.

5.5 Millionx 30 years = 165 million in revenue Doesnt include the Hotel/Car rental taxes.

Now, is this 5.5 Million in addition to the Business and Tourism taxes mentioned above? Or is this INCLUDED in those taxes?

Property will be owned by the Cobb-Marietta Coliseum and Exhibit Hall Authority. It will be operated by the Braves though. In 30 years, what will the stadium sell for? Who many are lining up to buy Turner Field right now? Who did Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium sell to back in the 1990s?

Developed land is worth more than undeveloped land. the correct question is what is Atlanta selling Turner Field to developers for................or what if the braves sign another 30 year lease.

Do you know why it is especially bad for restaurants in Cumberland Mall, like Uncle Vito's? They have to pay out the tax money as it will likely be factored into their rent, yet they won't get the customers. Do you know why? Because the Braves are planning on building their own $400M entertainment complex complete with restaurants. Tourists aren't going to travel over to the old mall when the new dedicated entertainment plaza is where they already are at.
Braves unveil stadium entertainment district plan | www.wsbtv.com

Legitimate concern, agreed. However, you and i know, thats business. Vitos will adapt of go under. You cant legislate companies to survive when environments change.

Cobb County has already factored in a tax for hotels, and for the Cumberland district. Where else can they go for money other than the local residents and businesses? How will those local residents see a return on their public money being used to build a local business?

Should be put to a vote

Right now, it appears that 55% of Cobb residents are against it, but Lee's plans to only listen to 6 residents before voting. Doesn't that strike you as being not in the public's best interest?
Even worse, look at what he predicted earlier:
County leader predicts unanimous vote on stadium | www.wsbtv.com
Sure sounds like he already knows of some backroom deals.

Agreed 10000% see what i said below this. I do feel it should be all on the table and residents should approve it. Anytime taxes are levied , residents should have an informed debate on whether to have new stadium or not.

I'm surprised that you would feel differently. When Obamacare was voted on without time to read the legislation, you certainly didn't have the same viewpoint that you have now.

HMMMMM ill just leave this here

If Cobb residents are smart they will approve this as long as taxes don't rise.

I in no way saaid they sholdnt have a voice or vote on this. You misunderstood me. Blank? is that you? :P

[David88vert]

You seem VASTLY more informed than me on this matter, so im genuinely asking sir Im not being facetious or condescending.

I only have the information that they have published so far. Most of it has been on WSB.

That pays for principal AND interest right? So stadium=Paid for out of these new taxes?

That's just the amount that they have agreed to pay out. That does not mean that it covers the stadium out of the new taxes. Everything that I have seen so far says that it does not cover it completely, but not all of the details have been flushed out yet.

5.5 Millionx 30 years = 165 million in revenue Doesnt include the Hotel/Car rental taxes.

Now, is this 5.5 Million in addition to the Business and Tourism taxes mentioned above? Or is this INCLUDED in those taxes?

Total expected off both taxes is just over $8M/yr, so $240M over 30 years.

Included, based on what has been published to date.

Developed land is worth more than undeveloped land. the correct question is what is Atlanta selling Turner Field to developers for................or what if the braves sign another 30 year lease.

Developed land is worth more when the developments and their infrastructure is reusable/saleable. No one will buy Turner Field as is for use as a stadium, and the reason that the Braves are moving is because the City of Atlanta has not kept up the infrastructure.

How much did Atlanta-Fulton County stadium sell for and what was the stadium and infrastructure worth? Oh right, it's a parking lot.

Turner Field will be bulldozed. Mark my words.

Legitimate concern, agreed. However, you and i know, thats business. Vitos will adapt of go under. You cant legislate companies to survive when environments change.

But you can create legislation to put them out of business. Just take some public funds, raise taxes, and give another private entity the ability to open a bunch of restaurants across the street.

Should be put to a vote

Agreed 10000% see what i said below this. I do feel it should be all on the table and residents should approve it. Anytime taxes are levied , residents should have an informed debate on whether to have new stadium or not.

And that is the whole point.

HMMMMM ill just leave this here

Sounded like you were ready to approve it earlier without question, and definitely without knowing the whole deal. Didn't Pelosi say we had to pass Obamacare before we read the ACA legislation? Same thing, just local county government spending big bucks this time around.

I in no way saaid they sholdnt have a voice or vote on this. You misunderstood me. Blank? is that you? :P

So we agree that the residents should have all of the information on the new stadium and vote on it. That's been my point from the beginning. I think we are in agreement.

[Vteckidd]

Also, what are the split on concessions? Do braves keep 100% of all concessions? What about cost of beer/liquor permits ?