it has everything to do with the wheels and them NOT being the driveing force of the plane as Rniner said the wheels spin freely and if the plan is sitting still than the conveyor would not be moveing because the speed of the plane would = zero so for the conveyor to move at all the plane must move forward. The only reasion the plane can take off is because the wheels and driveing force are not directly linked as they are on a car via trans. driveshaft ....
there is no mention of the throttle being on, is there?Originally Posted by AllBlackCivic
You will have to have SOME throttle else the plane will go backwards with motion of the treadmill via drag.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
if its not on than the Plane speed = zero
and there would be no need for a question
because all = zero no throttle = no speed no speed = no movement from the conveyor
not if the momentum, actuall your right, but if the plane is not moving from point a-b then all that trottle is useless, as there is no airflow that will get teh plane up, caus its standing still
Right, but, here is the catch: About the same amount of throttle to keep the plane stationary on the conveyor belt will be needed no matter if the conveyor belt is doing 50 or 1,000,000 miles per hour. Does this make sense to you?
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
yeah, if the friction on the wheels is constant
Assuming that they don't break under the force (speed), then yes, the friction would be.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
it will not take off.
all things being constant. The planes wheels are not the driving force, they merely guide the plane, the engine is what propels it down the runway.
if the conveyor belt matches the speed at which the WHEELS of the plane are turning, in essense, there will not be forward motion. to create resistance or lift there must be air present, with a object essentially staying stationary, the plane cannot lift off.
but i failed math class and physics, so who know. Ruiner does make a compelling argument.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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Correct, the plane must move forward to make lift. You are correct in saying that the wheels are not the driving force. If they are not the driving force, then they should have no real bearing on the plane's motion, correct? Thus, if they do not affect the plane's motion, then it really won't matter how fast the conveyor belt is moving. If the plane gives SOME thrust, it will move forward.
However..........it is stated that the conveyor belt will match the plane's speed. The ONLY way for the plane to develop a "speed" is by moving forward. Thus, if the belt is doing 300mph, the plane is doing 300mph. That should be enough for the plane to develop lift (probably closer to 170-200knots, actually). If the plane is doing 500 knots, the conveyor belt would be doing 500 knots as well. However, the plane would be moving forward at that point.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
ok my last post as it looks like almost no one cares what i have to say is that the plane devlops its thurst from its force agenst the air not te run way thank you allwho actualy read my posts i am right i have checked it agenst a epartment of engineers working on the F22A rapter in marieta that all confirm all that i have said good night
hahah I always knew you were smart...like father like son...i guess thats y he works where he has worked.
VAL FOR PRESIDENT
makes sense to me.
the only part i cant grasp is the "motion". if a plane is travelling at 400mph on this conveyor belt , then the plane has a speed correct? much like a car doing 140mph on my dyno, is really doing 140mph. but in a car the wheels ARE the driving force so i guess thats a bad example. i suppose if you put a jet engine on the back of a car on our dyno, it would create a "lift" because there will be some sort of thrust eventually, the car is at speen and in motion, and an object in motion stays in motion.
its kinda like, if your on top of a van. the van is moving 100mph, you jump str8 up, do you fall on the van or fall on the pavement, if there is no wind resistance.....
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Yes, but speed on an airplane isn't measured through the wheels like it is on a car.THERE is your difference.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
AHA, now that i have a definition of thrust, then it makes sneseYes, but speed on an airplane isn't measured through the wheels like it is on a car.
it WILL take off
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Define Thrust please
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
thurst is the forse created by the planes engins by creating resistance with the air behind it causeing the plane to move in a forward direction
the key to this whole question lies in the location of the moveing force and the wheels
Bam exactly that video is all the proof anyone should need
lol someone tried a video to explain
http://videos.streetfire.net/player....D-D6BA1A43A06B
that is all the proof i need
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
sorry ruiner is right bout this one.. the treadmill scenario is perfect!!!!!
good job man...
im gonna say yes cause there will still be thrust.
headwind is not the force BEHIND the planes engines. by his definition of thrust i beleive it will take off.
thurst is the forse created by the planes engins by creating resistance with the air behind it causeing the plane to move in a forward direction
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
headwind will only enhance the planes ability to take off if I am not mistaken since headwind increases the planes airspeed moreso than its groundspeed.
Yes, but will it move forward?
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
On one hand I want to say the headwind will actually push the 747 back keeping it on the conveyor BUT that same headwind could aid it in taking off.. even if the plane was not moving.
So I'll go with yes, it will still take off.
Actually, it will appear to "hover" in the air and not move forward or backwards if the wind is strong enough to keep it from going forward, but weak enough to not push it back. I know this because I have flown RC planes into strong headwinds and seen this effect with my own eyes.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
After some research on the original question, it will indeed take off. The wheels will just be moving at twice the speed of the conveyor......
I got free clear tails with my ride.....
No. The plane can still move forward and the wheels still spin backwards.
Last edited by Ruiner; 12-08-2005 at 07:40 PM.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Jus go buy a toy model and try it with a tread mill..lol Be ur own dayum "MythBuster"
I would say that it wont take off. If this was in a closed room, where there was no opposite air flow moving under the wings then ti wont take off. Say even if you have a conveyor moving in the opposite direction of the plane, then the plane starts up thrust to move the plane forward to match the speed of the conveyor. But the way the question is worded, you said that the thurst and the conveyor would be moving at the same speed. Well for what you guys are saying that the wheels will beat the drag, then the thrust would have to have a constant gain of velocity, but the question is that they match the speed. So this question could almost be considered impossible becuase if you had a conveyor that could completely match the planes thrust, then you would have a machine that was 100% efficent. But in this situation if it could happen then they conveyor would match the speed of the belt for everybit of its gain on the belt the belt would jsut speed up.
I mean i could be wrong but from what i understand even if the wheels beat the drag, the belt would jsut speed up more, to coincide with the planes thrust. To me its the same way as saying if you had someone pushing an object with 50N of force to the north and then had someone pushing with 50N of force on the same object to the south, they woudl jsut cancel out!
You are wrong. Once the effects of the wheel drag are overcome, the plane will move forward. The "wheel drag" from free-rolling wheels is next to nothing as you and I both know. Remember the wheels are rolling free; not with brakes on. Mechanical wheel drag is relatively small. That "drag" is the ONLY thing working against the plane in reference to the conveyor belt.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Yeah but to move the plane forward would require a huge conveyor area and then a huge tire area, then the wheels would have to have such grip that it pulls the conveyor nut the conveyor pulling it. Then if that had happened the plane could out trus the conveyor, but to me in a real life situation i dont think this would be possible. But still none the less fun to argue!
The wheels roll freely. There is no way for the simulation to take place as described under present-day physics.
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Are you over coming wheel drag or the weight of the plane? I have been thinking about this. Once the engines over come the weight of the plane it will move forward regardless. The same way that a hovercraft only has to overcome the weight itself to move forward, the ground becomes a nonfactor once forward momentum is achieved so does the conveyor.
Overcoming the weight of the plane would require lift.
If you want a less "biased" test, think of it this way: Put your car in neutral with a jet engine on the back and let her rip...
No matter how fast the conveyor belt spins, the car's wheels will also spin at the same rate, backwards in line with the conveyor belt. HOWEVER, the thrust from the engine will push the car forward, even though the wheels are still spinning backwards...
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
Well from someone i talked to told me that there is no way for teh plane to move or lift off. Becuase if the belt matches the speed on the planes wheels then the plane will stay in the same spot becuase the thrusters are what moves the plane forward,so really the belt is matching hte speed of the thrust not the plane. So i still agree that the plane will just roll nad look likes it hovering in one spot.Overcoming the weight of the plane would require lift.
If you want a less "biased" test, think of it this way: Put your car in neutral with a jet engine on the back and let her rip...
No matter how fast the conveyor belt spins, the car's wheels will also spin at the same rate, backwards in line with the conveyor belt. HOWEVER, the thrust from the engine will push the car forward, even though the wheels are still spinning backwards...
no gas = no go.
my post is what matters, you guys are being way to technical
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Still the belt is moving at the same speed as the wheels, that means the thrust is what is moving the wheels, so if the thrust is moving the wheels then the belt is matching the speed of the thrust, and the plane can only produce so much thrust! Still if this was possible i would bet that the plane will stay in one spot no matter the amount of thrust.
No. The wheels roll freely. The thrust is not moving the wheels. The plane doesn't care about the wheels because they roll freely. The wheels don't really play a part EXCEPT for the small amount of drag that is produced as they spin. That's it. The drag is VERY small. Does that make sense?
Read what I said in my previous response to you...
AIM: RuinerTT
2005 Nissan Pathfinder LE
damn.. you guys are still going at it?
2004 Nissan 350z Trng
2004 Subaru WRX STi
solamente los putos te llegan en numeros
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