Anyone looking for a schlorship?

[Bajjani]

This discussion isn't about racism, it's about the collective psycology of a group who was oppressed for so long.

This is called racism. Also, the "psycology" (psychology) that you're referring to is also racism. When you start separating people by race, it is racism. If I have a line for black people and a line for white people, that's segregation, and racist. If the minority feels they've been oppressed and deserve something more than another race, that's racist also. You can't fight racism and prejudice by classifying anything based on race/religion/gender/etc. The only things people deserve in this world is what they work for, not what you're born with.

[bu villain]

This is called racism. Also, the "psycology" (psychology) that you're referring to is also racism. When you start separating people by race, it is racism. If I have a line for black people and a line for white people, that's segregation, and racist. If the minority feels they've been oppressed and deserve something more than another race, that's racist also. You can't fight racism and prejudice by classifying anything based on race/religion/gender/etc. The only things people deserve in this world is what they work for, not what you're born with.

Again, I NEVER said having race based scholarships is right, I only said it is understandable. When a group is singled out and discriminated against, they will band together and help each other out. This is true whether the group is a race, an ethnicity, or a religion. It just happens to be a race in this case. I am NOT making a moral judgement here, just an observation about human nature.

[Sinfix_15]

Again, I NEVER said having race based scholarships is right, I only said it is understandable. When a group is singled out and discriminated against, they will band together and help each other out. This is true whether the group is a race, an ethnicity, or a religion. It just happens to be a race in this case. I am NOT making a moral judgement here, just an observation about human nature.

We need to get more white people in the NBA. It's unfair for teams not to have an equal portion of white players on their team. Every NBA team should be required to have a certain amount of white people.

seems like a silly request doesnt it? more black people are in the NBA because more black people are good at basketball. If more white people were good at basketball, more white people would be in the NBA? right? simple.

It's the same way with scholarships, engineering jobs, political offices or anything else. Quit using race as an excuse. anytime black people dont succeed at something, its blamed on race. Everyone has an equal opportunity to do anything they want.

[nelson9995]

Those percentages arn't far from each other, I don't see a huge issue. There are 24% more white kids in college vs other groups combined. There's no reason those numbers couldn't be 50/50. Secondly, that white group receives 48% more scholarships. (I'm doubtful to these 'facts' but let's run with it). How many black/white/hispanic/asian students applied for these scholarships? That's where you can determine if there is an issue. And here's one of the main differences between scholarships based on majors vs races: You can chose what major you go into. When you do this you take into consideration job opportunities, salary, cost/time for education, and even scholarship availability if you're smart. You can't chose what race you're born into. So a black kid wouldn't be eligible for a whites only scholarship, not based on his choices, but his skin color. Equally, a white kid wouldn't be eligible for a black only scholarship for the same reason.

good point

Again, I NEVER said having race based scholarships is right, I only said it is understandable. When a group is singled out and discriminated against, they will band together and help each other out. This is true whether the group is a race, an ethnicity, or a religion. It just happens to be a race in this case. I am NOT making a moral judgement here, just an observation about human nature.

I can agree to this from observations I've made in some of my black friend's families. And I never understood why they feel like that because everyone around them treats them the same exact way they treat me and I'm hispanic (dominican), and treats them the same way they treat our white friend. In my eyes, and everyone around me blacks/hispanics/whites, etc... are all the same. So I don't understand why certain races do that.

We need to get more white people in the NBA. It's unfair for teams not to have an equal portion of white players on their team. Every NBA team should be required to have a certain amount of white people.

seems like a silly request doesnt it? more black people are in the NBA because more black people are good at basketball. If more white people were good at basketball, more white people would be in the NBA? right? simple.

It's the same way with scholarships, engineering jobs, political offices or anything else. Quit using race as an excuse. anytime black people dont succeed at something, its blamed on race. Everyone has an equal opportunity to do anything they want.

You are right with some points, but I have to disagree with you in some.

I applied at Verizon a few years back. Went on an interview. As I got there, I see a white friend I knew from before was there getting interviewed also. He was still in highschool. I was in college. I had an open schedule, he was limited to the hours he could work. I am bilingual (with 2 years of experience as a workers comp interpreter), he is not. I had a high GPA, no criminal background, nothing. I am also really good at interviewing, and I felt like it went well.

Turns out, he got the job. There are situations when things like this do occur. But, it is not too common. The same way if let's say you are Jamaican. You own a company and a jamaican applies, and a white guy does. You like both, but you will probably hire the jamaican just because you guys are a minority and you may feel like helping your own kind out... But again, it is not too common.

[Sinfix_15]

good point


I can agree to this from observations I've made in some of my black friend's families. And I never understood why they feel like that because everyone around them treats them the same exact way they treat me and I'm hispanic (dominican), and treats them the same way they treat our white friend. In my eyes, and everyone around me blacks/hispanics/whites, etc... are all the same. So I don't understand why certain races do that.



You are right with some points, but I have to disagree with you in some.

I applied at Verizon a few years back. Went on an interview. As I got there, I see a white friend I knew from before was there getting interviewed also. He was still in highschool. I was in college. I had an open schedule, he was limited to the hours he could work. I am bilingual (with 2 years of experience as a workers comp interpreter), he is not. I had a high GPA, no criminal background, nothing. I am also really good at interviewing, and I felt like it went well.

Turns out, he got the job. There are situations when things like this do occur. But, it is not too common. The same way if let's say you are Jamaican. You own a company and a jamaican applies, and a white guy does. You like both, but you will probably hire the jamaican just because you guys are a minority and you may feel like helping your own kind out... But again, it is not too common.

it goes both ways..... and that type of favoritism isnt just a racial issue. An attractive female will almost always get a job over an equally qualified male. A fit person will usually get a job over an equally qualified fat person. There's a lot of different appearance factors that people show bias towards in the job market. It's not just a racial issue.

My only issue with the whole concept is that i dont feel black people have a problem with the "system" per say, but they have a problem with being on the losing end of the system. They dont want to rid the work place of racial bias, but rather to even the odds of racial bias.

I myself am all in favor of having gender and race removed from any application process. But it has to go both ways..... in the same breath we cant have all black schools and then demand for other schools to not recognize race. I feel like we're stuck in a stand off, but rather than agreeing to both lower our guns... one side is saying "let me keep my gun on you for a little while since you had yours on me for so long".... and that just isnt gonna work.

[nelson9995]

it goes both ways..... and that type of favoritism isnt just a racial issue. An attractive female will almost always get a job over an equally qualified male. A fit person will usually get a job over an equally qualified fat person. There's a lot of different appearance factors that people show bias towards in the job market. It's not just a racial issue.

My only issue with the whole concept is that i dont feel black people have a problem with the "system" per say, but they have a problem with being on the losing end of the system. They dont want to rid the work place of racial bias, but rather to even the odds of racial bias.

I myself am all in favor of having gender and race removed from any application process. But it has to go both ways..... in the same breath we cant have all black schools and then demand for other schools to not recognize race. I feel like we're stuck in a stand off, but rather than agreeing to both lower our guns... one side is saying "let me keep my gun on you for a little while since you had yours on me for so long".... and that just isnt gonna work.

I see what you are saying. Instead of accepting the fact that things are now equal and being in peace, they feel like getting back at the system/whites, (which I agree with you since I notice the same thing) which is what I stated in my previous post. Now we agree.

[bu villain]

We need to get more white people in the NBA. It's unfair for teams not to have an equal portion of white players on their team. Every NBA team should be required to have a certain amount of white people.

seems like a silly request doesnt it? more black people are in the NBA because more black people are good at basketball. If more white people were good at basketball, more white people would be in the NBA? right? simple.

It's the same way with scholarships, engineering jobs, political offices or anything else. Quit using race as an excuse. anytime black people dont succeed at something, its blamed on race. Everyone has an equal opportunity to do anything they want.

That is a straw man argument. No one here is arguing we need to have the same number of blacks or whites getting scholarships. I'm certainly not. That being said, saying we all have equal opportunities is pure naivite. In this country we all have great potential to succeed but the world is full of biases and unequal opportunity and we will never abolish that completely.

[BanginJimmy]

That is a straw man argument. No one here is arguing we need to have the same number of blacks or whites getting scholarships. I'm certainly not. That being said, saying we all have equal opportunities is pure naivite. In this country we all have great potential to succeed but the world is full of biases and unequal opportunity and we will never abolish that completely.

This is true on an individual level, but on the institutional level everyone has the same opportunity. It doesnt matter if you grew up in the projects or the Hamptons. You may not be able to take the same route, but you can get to the same destination. A good example from my life would be the CEO of the company I work for. He couldnt afford college after HS so we spent 4 years in the Marine Corps first. He just retired as the CEO of one of the largest multinational corporations in the world. One that does about 45bil a year in sales.

[bu villain]

This is true on an individual level, but on the institutional level everyone has the same opportunity. It doesnt matter if you grew up in the projects or the Hamptons. You may not be able to take the same route, but you can get to the same destination. A good example from my life would be the CEO of the company I work for. He couldnt afford college after HS so we spent 4 years in the Marine Corps first. He just retired as the CEO of one of the largest multinational corporations in the world. One that does about 45bil a year in sales.

Yeah I totally agree. I guess it's the term "equal opportunity" that causes confusion. It is theoretically possible that the daughter of a militant Islamic crackhead could grow up to become president of the US but I don't consider such a person to have "equal opportunity" to do so as say, George W. Bush. Even if they had equal levels of intelligence, industriousness, and drive. I not saying we should expect such perfect opportunities between such different origins either, but some barriers are manufactured through personal and institutional bias that should be broken down.

[BanginJimmy]

Yeah I totally agree. I guess it's the term "equal opportunity" that causes confusion. It is theoretically possible that the daughter of a militant Islamic crackhead could grow up to become president of the US but I don't consider such a person to have "equal opportunity" to do so as say, George W. Bush. Even if they had equal levels of intelligence, industriousness, and drive. I not saying we should expect such perfect opportunities between such different origins either, but some barriers are manufactured through personal and institutional bias that should be broken down.

While that girl may not be president it doesnt mean she wont be the CEO. Politics isnt like the real world though. In politics, you are defined as much by things you had no control over as you are with your politics. More attractive people tend to move further in politics. The same is true of people with family with political connections or those with an academic background.


In some ways you are trying to urn equality in outcome into equality in opportunity. 2 people that take the exact same path through life can still end up with unequal outcomes. Sometimes its just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.