It has been brought to my attention

[Seymour222]

that the trend that has been growing in the "scene" is to make your "street car" appear to be a track car. People constantly buy parts for their car that serve, primarily, no other purpose other than to appear to be a track demon. Whether its a bolt-in roll cage, 15 inch brakes tucked inside a 17 inch wheel, a ridiculous sized turbo with an even more ridiculous shot of nitrous, a 1200 dollar set of tires to be driven daily- that will wear out in 5000 miles, wheels that are comparable in weight to that of a newborn baby, 4k in suspension on a car that will most likely NOT ever even be learned to be driven by the owner to the full extent that it is necessary, or a giant wing on a car that will never succumb to speeds necessary to generate downforce to stabilize the vehicle.

Im not hating, please don't misunderstand what Im saying. I don't think your a douche for having a bolt-in roll cage. I would just think that all these things we spend our hard earned money for- we would want to experience, at least, the functionality of these items.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy seeing a super clean vehicle with some nice parts speckled throughout the chassis. I just don't understand why we don't push more to test the limits of ourselves and our vehicles if we are going to constantly improve them.

Maybe its as simple as practicality. Its too expensive and we ve already blown our money on some bangin' parts, therefore we don't have the desire to push the limits to possibly have to replace them.
-I can see/respect that.

There is a plethora of Drag/RR/Drift /AutoX events that we can attend. And Im sure there are a crapload of worthy cars with fantastic drivers and untapped talent.

I just feel that the DRIVING aspect of it all, exponentially increases the reward of what we work for our cars to be. I guess what Im trying to say is "Its cool to make 500hp+, but its even cooler to be able to properly use 500hp+"

anyway, I thought I d share. Its just an opinion, don't get your feelings hurt. HPDE's are cool.

[metalmatt47]

I agree 100%.

Everyone wants to own the baddest car in town, or at least make theirs seem like it, but when it comes down to it, its never tracked.

[DynamicSound]

Some people do not care about it like that. I will be doing a LQ9 6.0 swop in my Porsche 944 soon. It will be 470hp out the box on a 2700lbs vehicle and I plan on getting it up to about 600-700hp once it is done. However, I will never track it because I could care less...just want a beastly car.

[nreggie454]

Some people do not care about it like that. I will be doing a LQ9 6.0 swop in my Porsche 944 soon. It will be 470hp out the box on a 2700lbs vehicle and I plan on getting it up to about 600-700hp once it is done. However, I will never track it because I could care less...just want a beastly car.

While that is cool, I have a really hard time understanding the motivation behind such an act. Why have a beastly car when you never unleash its fury?

I have a hard time understanding why some folks spend a lot of money enhancing a car's performance so that they can park it at a meet for sweet pictures. If it is their thing, then great for them. I just feel that cars are meant to be driven, and high performance cars are meant to be driven hard (and, no, sweet highway rolls do not count).

[DynamicSound]

While that is cool, I have a really hard time understanding the motivation behind such an act. Why have a beastly car when you never unleash its fury?

I have a hard time understanding why some folks spend a lot of money enhancing a car's performance so that they can park it at a meet for sweet pictures. If it is their thing, then great for them. I just feel that cars are meant to be driven, and high performance cars are meant to be driven hard (and, no, sweet highway rolls do not count).

Why ask why? I am not saying it will not be unleashed, but I doubt I would ever track it. It is about having the power there when you decide to use it. A lot of people spend money on dumb things, but as long as they have the money to spend who cares.

[nreggie454]

Why ask why? I am not saying it will not be unleashed, but I doubt I would ever track it. It is about having the power there when you decide to use it. A lot of people spend money on dumb things, but as long as they have the money to spend who cares.

I will never tell somebody what to do with their own car. I might say I disagree with it, but if it's your thing, it's your thing.

To me, it seems like having a supermodel girlfriend but never having sex with her.

[On_Her_Face]

Some people do not care about it like that. I will be doing a LQ9 6.0 swop in my Porsche 944 soon. It will be 470hp out the box on a 2700lbs vehicle and I plan on getting it up to about 600-700hp once it is done. However, I will never track it because I could care less...just want a beastly car.

470hp out of the box? Care to explain how a LQ9 has 470hp out of the box?

[DynamicSound]

No, that would be more like having a supermodel girlfriend and not cock'n her hard. lol

Would you settle for spending money on something like this is good for the economy?

[nreggie454]

No, that would be more like having a supermodel girlfriend and not cock'n her hard. lol

Would you settle for spending money on something like this is good for the economy?

I'm all for helping the economy, and 700HP 944s are cool, no matter what.

[Got Milk?]

Hey, some people spend their money on drugs, some people spend their money traveling, some of us choose to spend it on our cars. I don't see it as being a bad thing at all. The sad part here really is the people who put stuff on their car and think they know how to handle the car, and usually end up crashing or killing someone. Some people build their car just for dyno show offs "dyno queens". Some people build their cars just for shows, to be sponsored, and so forth. So not everyone have same intentions with their builds.

[Formally...]

I see what you are doing Chris....

I think what he means is not for all the cars in the scene. But I do agree with the cars that have gutted interiors (because a car is so much faster with the 4lbs back seats out), crazy suspension braces everywhere, 32 way adjustable coilovers (thats 31 ways to fuck it up), and "track" this or that stickers on it. These cars want to be track cars but will never actually make it.

I am all for a nice clean well put together car but I also like to see people use the parts for what they are made for.

[Blitanicle99]

Well then there's those of us who are at the track twice a month...?

Just sayin'.


I agree with ya, not every car is a track car. But quite a bit of people do, at least that I know personally from the track that I run into at local meets. I even support the guys that do the mountain runs and such, at least they are using the car for what they paid for it. If you want a casual daily, buy a cadillac.

[Seymour222]

Indeed. I just believe that if people could feel the limits of their car, they would get ten times the enjoyment out of their ride. Even if its a STOCK dc, s13, or what have you, because it is nearly impossible to experience these things safely on a public road. Yes Charles, you are right. Since I am a RR fan- I would like to see someone dedicated to providing these days for complete novices, so they can come out, without any sort of expectations from them, and enjoy their car. Or rather, just a group of NOVICES that would like to try out some RR. How many people don't participate in the current events just because of nerve, wit, or lack of knowledge? A bunch Im sure.

Does anybody feel the same way at all?
Is there anyone here that would like to safely feel the limits of their car, and become a better driver?

[Elbow]

I hate the trend of "hard parkers" but many people track their cars and drive it as is, not to be cool, but because it's their DD and it's all function.

[Black4DrEK]

Do you ask every person that has those parts.... hey "do you track your car"?

How do you know they dont

[Elbow]

Do you ask every person that has those parts.... hey "do you track your car"?

How do you know they dont

We all know it's easy to tell who REALLY does and who doesn't. Some of these kids I see at meets with cages and bars wouldn't pass tech even at the shittiest track let alone most in this area.

[Black4DrEK]

^ True.. Most folks just do it for the "looks"

Well not soo much as a Road Racing track.. MOST guys at the meets have NEVER done that... I would love too, but dont have the time or money to travel to the Awesome tracks.. but eyy I DEFF will in the Future.

But what about "Drag"?

[Elbow]

^ True.. Most folks just do it for the "looks"

Well not soo much as a Road Racing track.. MOST guys at the meets have NEVER done that... I would love too, but dont have the time or money to travel to the Awesome tracks.. but eyy I DEFF will in the Future.

But what about "Drag"?

Travel? The best track in the US is in our state. lol

[Black4DrEK]

yea I know.. Its still a Bit far away..

[Elbow]

yea I know.. Its still a Bit far away..

Well I guess depending on where you live, far to me is a track in Ohio, still willing to go that far though. lol

[Black4DrEK]

And I find that awesome!

you do, what I Dream of doing.. Go to tracks and get out there and fucking Do what interest you the most.

I would probly give my Left Testi to be in the shoes of a Professional Road racer.. Damn haha

But like I said man. Soon in the future I will get my ass out to some tracks. If only I had a pop's when I was younger to start me racing Go karts or something..

Fuck it.. Privateer racing is the best. IMO. I feel that you have more motivation to become Bigger and Better. ( I know this from Racing Dirt bikes in the past)

[Elbow]

And I find that awesome!

you do, what I Dream of doing.. Go to tracks and get out there and fucking Do what interest you the most.

I would probly give my Left Testi to be in the shoes of a Professional Road racer.. Damn haha

But like I said man. Soon in the future I will get my ass out to some tracks. If only I had a pop's when I was younger to start me racing Go karts or something..

Fuck it.. Privateer racing is the best. IMO. I feel that you have more motivation to become Bigger and Better. ( I know this from Racing Dirt bikes in the past)

I'm not a pro though and still don't do it as often as I'd like. lol All I can do is keep on striving.

It can be cheap, don't let all the people fool you. You can get out on Road Atlanta for $100.

[Got Milk?]

So according to you guys, if you put sway bars you should immediately go to the track?

I'm not a pro though and still don't do it as often as I'd like. lol All I can do is keep on striving.

It can be cheap, don't let all the people fool you. You can get out on Road Atlanta for $100.

Yeah, 100 to enter the track, and have like 2-3 laps go around. And put all variables at the track and add them up. You will probably need new tires and break pads, the gas you use up to get to the track and come back home, you will probably end up at $500 budget for lousy few laps at the track.

[nreggie454]

So according to you guys, if you put sway bars you should immediately go to the track?



Yeah, 100 to enter the track, and have like 2-3 laps go around. And put all variables at the track and add them up. You will probably need new tires and break pads, the gas you use up to get to the track and come back home, you will probably end up at $500 budget for lousy few laps at the track.

Exaggerate much? If you use up a set of tires and brake pads at a single HPDE, you shouldn't be out there anyways. If you are gonna whine about cost, you could autocross for about $50 bucks, gas included.

[Elbow]

So according to you guys, if you put sway bars you should immediately go to the track?



Yeah, 100 to enter the track, and have like 2-3 laps go around. And put all variables at the track and add them up. You will probably need new tires and break pads, the gas you use up to get to the track and come back home, you will probably end up at $500 budget for lousy few laps at the track.

Who said anything like that? A sway bar isn't a track mod...a cage is. There is a difference in a fun car on the street and a TRACK car.

No, $100 gets you 40 minutes of true track time. That wears NOTHING out...lol. I spend $100 on an entry fee for this particular group (SCCA PDX), $20 in gas, THAT'S IT, maybe an oil change. Nothing else. 40 minutes won't kill a car if the driver isn't a moron.

[Black4DrEK]

Who said anything like that? A sway bar isn't a track mod...a cage is. There is a difference in a fun car on the street and a TRACK car.

No, $100 gets you 40 minutes of true track time. That wears NOTHING out...lol. I spend $100 on an entry fee for this particular group (SCCA PDX), $20 in gas, THAT'S IT, maybe an oil change. Nothing else. 40 minutes won't kill a car if the driver isn't a moron.

Sounds good to me.

[Got Milk?]

Who said anything like that? A sway bar isn't a track mod...a cage is. There is a difference in a fun car on the street and a TRACK car.

No, $100 gets you 40 minutes of true track time. That wears NOTHING out...lol. I spend $100 on an entry fee for this particular group (SCCA PDX), $20 in gas, THAT'S IT, maybe an oil change. Nothing else. 40 minutes won't kill a car if the driver isn't a moron.

No, the 40 minutes won't kill the car if the car has like 100hp, like most of your cars do that you track.

[Elbow]

No, the 40 minutes won't kill the car if the car has like 100hp, like most of your cars do that you track.

40 minutes won't kill ANY car. I've driven more 300+HP cars at the track then 100-150HP cars...

I ran four hours in a boosted Miata (around 275HP) and didn't even change pads.

These are also obviously sessions broken down, not straight. I mean hell a brake pad change is rare in a ten hour race. You DEFIANTLY won't even scratch a tire in 40 minutes and if your engine can't handle that it's shitty anyway.

[nreggie454]

No, the 40 minutes won't kill the car if the car has like 100hp, like most of your cars do that you track.

Like I said earlier, if you are tearing up a set of tires in a single driving event (no matter what the car), you are either drifting or doing something terribly wrong.

[Black4DrEK]

hell no..

It aint that big of a deal to me. You dont have to hit the "track" to notice every mod..

Shit, you can put some Bars, Suspension, ect.. And damn drive around hitting corners on back roads and what not.. And WILL feel a difference.. haha..jus sayin..

^ Sure its not using its full potential, but ehh..

[blaknoize]

What makes anyone want to mod anything beyond the necessary means of the driver? You bring your Honda up to the 280hp range for no other reason than to know u have the power available. Make that big V8 rumble so u can feel it just to say u got there. We may do it to feel part of something, we may do it for self-esteem, we may do it because we know we can.

We upgrade our suspension for confidence and "look." We add wheels for style, some for fuel economy. This goes along the lines of those who heavily un-mod their cars for high fuel economy. Why do they do it? Because they love the idea of burning as little fuel as possible and clock 700 miles per tank. Which is awesome. It is also awesome to destroy tires and scare other drivers from the sheer sound of your acceleration from the light.

Knowing your car produces the rubble all the neighboring drivers can feel, creating the adrenaline in each young mans/womans soul that they also want to create that buzz around their car. Or... the low constant spool. I wouldnt even try and over analize the next trend. Let them do what they want. Stop sounding like the people of the 60's who didnt understand why our generation has a liking toward 4cyl engines and "Hondas"

I dont track mine, though I do want to. But I am not a person that will be out there as often as possible. I will bring my DSMs power up as much as usable just because I can, just to have it and change suspension and other bits, but it wont be tracked all that often. Although I will attempt to gain knowledge from that so I can use it in daily driving.

[Seymour222]

What makes anyone want to mod anything beyond the necessary means of the driver?

Im with you here

This goes along the lines of those who heavily un-mod their cars for high fuel economy. Which is awesome.

I assume your talking about gutting, your car. Fuel Economy IS good.

It is also awesome to destroy tires and scare other drivers from the sheer sound of your acceleration from the light.

Doh! Im losin' ya, no comprende.

Knowing your car produces the rubble all the neighboring drivers can feel, creating the adrenaline in each young mans/womans soul that they also want to create that buzz around their car.

Assuming you mean "rumble". I guess we need our egos stroked every once in a while.

I wouldnt even try and over analize the next trend. Let them do what they want.Stop sounding like the people of the 60's who didnt understand why our generation has a liking toward 4cyl engines and "Hondas"

I agree analization is bad...lol JK.

My original point was not to over analyze the trend, but try to find some rationalization.
And then try to get you people to come to some track days so you'll stop hitting guardrails and other cars, until you can drive the snot out of your car. How many people REALLY know what their car is doing and why. Very few Im sure. Im also sure that there are a handful of you out there who DO, this is not for you. There's an opportunity to become better at something that you essentially do EVERY day. Probably not a bad investment. We all probably spend a HUGE quantity of time in our vehicles. Plus, I don't see someone with a gangster ride NOT LIKING some HPDE, anyway. Do it. Its that much fun and beneficial.

[claybird]

wow man we are on the same page op. I have been thinking this forever. And the worst part is just that some one can beat u in a drag then they won't road race or track with you. That's what real racing is. Pockets are deep, graves are not. They got money to build it, but in reality they are shit worth driving!

[Z0_o6]

I'm going to Little Tally on 10/19 to give the STi a shakedown.

[Elbow]

I'm going to Little Tally on 10/19 to give the STi a shakedown.

Shakedown before what?

Don't spend more than forty minutes on track or your car will require thousands in repairs. lol

[Z0_o6]

Shakedown before what?

Don't spend more than forty minutes on track or your car will require thousands in repairs. lol

It will be my first time out on a road course, so I call it a shakedown in the sense of finding out what I need to change, what isn't gonna hold up to the abuse, and what driving skills I need to focus on to become better. Not before another event or anything

[Elbow]

It will be my first time out on a road course, so I call it a shakedown in the sense of finding out what I need to change, what isn't gonna hold up to the abuse, and what driving skills I need to focus on to become better. Not before another event or anything

Ah cool, enjoy it!

[Got Milk?]

The only reason why my wrx have not seen the track yet is because the dog box is not in yet. Once I drop the dog box in there, I'll be at the track often. But I agree with you OP. At sonic meet, there are alot of 600-800hp cars, and the owners that I talk to say the car didnt see track and never will. They just park their car and pop their hood. lol

[blaknoize]

I was just saying Seymour (and all my errors come from me spending way to many hours at work typing into a report ugh) I want to do all I can, I may not add a rollcage and stuff like that, but I do want to ride on baller suspension and use it on occasion and also have a pretty high hp motor (from what I'm used to) for once. Then fuk the thing up and get a normal car

Until we start creating crazy electric motor hp numbers!!! All up in the thousands, easily.