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Mine does. Of course, I do work for a large company that can afford healthcare for its employees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Canada and England both have major issues with their universal coverage in terms of responsiveness. These are not the systems that we should mimic.
Only France has a care system that is reasonable to look at, and it is still far from perfect. It has soaring healthcare costs that threaten its ability to provide with out rationing care in the future.
people use medicare/medicad/peachcare, etc everyday... i'm sure you have a family member on one of these why should we pay for those then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
Responsiveness isn't an issue to not give people healthcare... both countries all have some of the best medical care in the world in the public sector so how do you explain that? There are all kinds of flaws in any healthcare system doesn't matter public/private but it doesn't mean we shouldn't give people the chance to be covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
ps i also have worked 6 years for the largest TPA on the east coast and my wife works in the industry as well every day so i do know a little bit about the inter workings of insurance, cost, and the issues.
I grew up in one and we never had issues. I have no idea why everyone is bitching about this. The only reason these ludicrous actions, such as layoffs and businesses closing are because of the mindset of Americans. Why are people being laid off? Because no one is buying. Why is no one buying? Because they are getting laid off. Its a cycle and until a vast majority breaks that, we will continue to decline. I hear several people in hear who seem to be in the mind state that LESS government is better. If this is true it is now YOUR responsibility to regain economical structure and security for the entire country, not single-handedly, but as a whole. If you think you have too much government interference, then why do you become so perturbed by this bill? It should have been expected. Bajjani and VtecKidd are right, this may destroy your government, but only because Americans refuse to change. If a form of socialism was required to succeed how many would willingly take that? Not many. Most would rather fight and fail then to join a reform. Survival of the fittest. Obama may not be the smartest cookie in the world, but I think he knows what he is doing. I do think some points of this bill are rather ridiculous, such as requiring parents to insure their children until 26. I'm 18 and get insurance through work, thankfully, but even if I didn't I would not ask for it from my parents. This is all the start of something the majority of you will be opposed to, but some will enjoy it. Work as a nation, not as political parties. Not to make a joke, but the only time America can join together is when someone flies a plane into a building or bombs a naval base. Work together people!Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
/endrant and waiting for bashing
no i dont all my family are retired USAF Veterans who are covered by the military plan for life. I pay for my own insurance , i went 6 years without coverage because small businesses like Mainstream, Batlground cant afford to pay peoples premiums. I totally understand that, thats why they should be allowed to band together. is that even in this bill i know obama talked about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Lets look at:
Medicare- BANKRUPT
Medicad- Bankrupt
Peachcare- State provided correct?
Dont change the argument i never said i wasnt for INSURING everyone, this is just not the way to do it. What i would have been behind was attacking the reasons why healthcare is so high in the first place and making it easier and more affordable for people to purchase.
Again its a simple gross difference in ideology , Dems think its a RIGHT that govt needs to provide, republicans think its a right that all people should have a chance to access.
The constitution says LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, not the guarantee of happiness.
I believe like almost all social programs, this will cover people that 1) Could afford healthcare but didnt want to buy it 2) People that are too lazy to make something of themselves to be able to afford it anyway.
The one SMALL SECTION of people, people REALLY working who cant REALLY afford it, well im happy they have coverage..........in 4 years.
I cant wait to see the amount of fraud and abuse when this system gets implemented. This will be the biggest I TOLD YOU SO in history
I agree that we should give people proper healthcare - but this bill does not do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Canada and England have documented know issues with providing healthcare. For example, England has an 11% lower survival rate for breat cancer. 55% of UK patients said they had had difficulty getting access to GP care on weekends and nights. The UK also has the worst record for waiting times with 15% having to wait for more than six months for elective treatment. Canada was the next worst on 14%.
So, if England's NHS is so good, why did Wales pull out of it in 1999? And why are more people needing healthcare choosing to move from London to Scotland? Perhaps its because Scotland's 14 regional boards do a better job at providing healthcare?
Im sorry that made me laugh lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KodyH
I have no choice but to conform im not going to tell the govt to fuckoff. My point is the people that think this is about covering americans are DELUSIONAL. This isnt about covering people, this is about a POWER GRAB. The democrats who have failed us on doing anything to save the economy so far, now control 1/6th of the economy.
this is the first time in years ive actually considered leaving the country, and i hate to say that cause it pisses me off when i see other people say it. But this is BAD folks, REALLY BAD.
Do it. Go to Ireland, because this actually works there. As well as Germany, which you of all people should know, seeing as you have military family. Germany is known for their healthcare and they follow this to a point. You cannot, however, blame this entirely on the government. This is a Democratic Republic, which means its people do affect the way the government is run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
My family never had issues in London.. Just sayin'Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
It might be because they were clinics and not a hospital, but still.
Ireland - The poorer you are, the more taxpayer-paid coverage that you can receive. It is not equal and fair to all. Not really a problem in my view though on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by KodyH
Waiting lists for those without private insurance can stretch into years - even for critical operations like heart operations. There are tens of thousands of people waiting for their "free" medical services.
Baby aspirin is a prescription drug - and expensive. 30 baby aspirin can cost 10 Irish pounds. Normal aspirin is hard to find in Ireland.
If you wife needs an OB/GYN for a pregnancy, she will likely have to wait 6 months to a year in some areas - of course, the baby should be born in 9 months.
During the winter flu seasons, there are nearly weekly stories of overcrowded emergency facilities with patients lying on gurneys in the halls for periods up to three days.
That said - most are happy with the doctors and nurses. And most people there agree that private insurance is required to get responsive healthcare - its the only way to jump up the line.
Germany's system seems to be better, but I don't know enough details of it to comment on it.
That is true here also - less wait time at a clinic than a hospital obviously. Less cost generally also.Quote:
Originally Posted by KodyH
Are you speaking from experience? Because I lived there the majority of my short life.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
well VA is still a form of gov healthcare. i'm wondering how attacking the issues is not doing the same... so you are going to put forth regulatory actions against insurance companies? isn't that exactly what your squawking about killing private sector? there is fraud in every system it doesn't matter private/public - what is needed to correct is checks/balances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vteckidd
you know i'm in the top 5% earners so this isn't more banter from the bottom feeders... i for one can not stand welfare/food stamps/education vouchers, etc... but i still think everyone should have some form of healthcare and something has to be done sooner than later.
No, I have not. I only know a few people living there - they all purchase private insurance to get faster access. Like I stated - it seems that most are still happy with their care. In any healthcare system there are going to be issues, that is a given. Ireland started out with less economic strength, so I would imagine that plays a part also (no data at hand on that though - just my opinion). I would not say that the Irish healthcare system is bad though - if the people are still happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KodyH
Additionally, you can find all the information you could ever want reported through reputable news outlets.
Perhaps you can clarify what you experienced there. Did it work for your family? Did you run solely on the tax-payer support, or purchase insurance? I would imagine that you parents would have explained their viewpoints to you at least.
My father spent significant time in the VA hospital. Speaking from experience, they provided him excellent care for several years. I have no complaints with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
I agree with the rest of your statement - except that getting this bill in now is not the answer. It was a poorly written bill. The House should have written a better bill and sent it over to the Senate.
Where did you say anything about being a citizen of said country? I have family in Canada we bring them here when they have serious medical issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by Paul
well if the world DOES end is 2012, at least everyone cant complain much longer....LOL
Maybe the government can take over some more shit, then I'll just quit and sign up for welfare and get all my shit paid for by you all.
Before I was born they had insurance through the state. I had a brother and sister born while they had this and apparently they never received any issues. They ran across a large amount of inheritance a couple years before I was born and bought insurance from a private company for the entire family, which we could use in any country in Europe. A huge plus, hence our experience with clinics in London. Unfortunately I cannot get any more information about this, or their views on the new bill. From what I witnessed, no one in our town had issues with it, but perhaps it is because we were used to it. Ireland has a long way to go though. You were in saying there will be issues, as there are. They are relatively young state, gaining independence in 1949.Quote:
Originally Posted by David88vert
All I'm saying is this does work in other countries. Most people only see the bad, not the good. There are issues, but America had issues too.
well you made it sound like you've used such systems first hand... i have friends overseas using such systems as well and they can't complain considering w/o it they would have NO healthcare. i also have friends here who go back to europe to use their gov ran healthcare as it is better and more cost efficient. so this swings both ways in many forms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajjani
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodyH
It isn't even just an issue if the healthcare works or not thats what people aren't getting. I have NOTHING against giving people medical insurance. What I have an issue with is the fact that it will hurt our economy more than anyone seems to want to fucking admit.
Paul just because your friends swing every way possible doesn't mean healthcare works :-PQuote:
Originally Posted by Paul
And no, I've never heard success stories from anyone who uses gov't funded healthcare, and I have a ton of friends overseas, I've spent months overseas for soccer and I still talk to a lot of them. Zero, success stories.
OMG OMG OMG
Big deal.
I don't support it, or this government... but in all honesty there's not a damned thing you or I can do about it in the big picture. Your choices are really quite simple:
1) make whiny threads like these until your fingers are as beaten and squishy as your vagina.
2) move the fuck away to another country whose government will never do anything to upset your beliefs (good luck with that)
3) shut the fuck up (most effective when followed by #4)
4) kill yourself. (see #3)
Actually, if deemed unconstitutional, this can be fought and won in court. Up yours!Quote:
Originally Posted by BKgen®
I WIN!
lol. Let me know how that works out for you.
Oh come on give me credit for at least being right!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BKgen®
OMG SOCIALISM WERE ALL GONNA BE BROKE WITHIN A WEEK
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by BKgen®
This is how it works. Thank youuuuuuu
Challenges to this bill will come on violating the following sections of the US Constitution:
First Amendment
Fourth Amendment
Fifth Amendment
Ninth Amendment
Tenth Amendment
I think it's a slam-dunk that this bill will end up being deemed unconstitutional.
Just received an email from a friend in the Michigan AG's office. Michigan's AG, Mike Cox announced in a press release that Michigan is joining a lawsuit with Florida and others, to challenge the constitutionality of this new legislation.
Hopefully we can get this shit reversed.
We may have argued before, but thank god you don't agree with the other side on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbckiexx
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html
Saw another one that Virginia Univ I think it was is going to file a lawsuit
I know right? Whatever side I'm on is always right.. and i wouldnt' want to be the other guy.. on the other side. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajjani
Idaho is on board too.
Shit I posted the same link I guess I didn't copy the one from the school.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbckiexx
Greedy fuckers its blatant that the "vast majority" of people do not want this bill and on something this fuckin extreme you would think it'd be a requirement. I'm tired of Obama's fucking bullshit a government set to help the people, hes a lying cock sucker
Raises hand. And, no.. it does NOT work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
x2 Unless you plan to move to another country, you just like everyone else, has to just deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKgen®
Between the two of you, I bet there is enough lube up your ass to last a lifetime. Please bend over and take it more. First off, the forum is used to voice/rant anything I fucking feel like I want to, so, suck on my balls please. Second, I'd rather voice my opinion than choke on Obama's dick like you two. So HA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_2WIN
Wonder what would have happened if our founding fathers had this attitude..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_2WIN
Of course we will comply, no one is talking about overthrowing the govt. But to say "just sit there and deal with it" is the exact lazy , lackadaisical attitude that exemplifies OUR generation.
If you agree with the bill, i disagree with you, but at least you stand for something. I think the most disingenuous thing about most people is the "ehhh it wont bother me" attitude. Or the "ehh who cares" attitude. I cant tell you how many people i know that have ZERO clue on what the issues are. Its truly frightening how people are more obsessed with Call Of Duty than their countrys political climate.
It angers me when i see people post stuff like this, its stupid. BE ACTIVE, EDUCATE yourself, whatever your views are. But at least find out what policies mean to you or how they effect other people.
We can debate good vs bad all day long, theres no stopping that. But when i see people who just truly dont care commentating, thats saddening
Rather choke on Obama's dick, than get fucked w/o lube and lied to for 8 years like the former POS president. So many ppl are "Oh Obama is bad, he doesn't care, blah, blah" but everyones seems to have forgotten who got us into this whole mess.... We were in a surplus before your beloved Bush came into office. 8 years later we have someone who is trying to change things around and you bitch. Grow your ass up. Whether or not you agree, at least he is TRYING to get us in a different direction, b/c all the last man did was line his pockets with lies. At least he is trying new policies to help move us in the right direction. What did Bush do? "No Child Left Behind"? That shitty ass law left EVERY child left behind, hell they are as dumb as ever now! But no one contested that piece of shit policy. And im sure he reading your rant on this car forum saying "well this young man has a problem with it, so let me change it!" get over your self and deal with it. Life moves on. You need to rant? See a therapist, thats what they are there for.
LoL who the fuck said anything about Bush? Are you comparing who is worse? Do you even realize the consequences of this policy? Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about? Do me a favor, I'll keep ranting on here while you willingly go choke on Obama's dick, I bet you're use to it anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_2WIN
AHHH THE BUSH DEFENSE! there it is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_2WIN
You have no clue what you are talking about. Youre right the Dems had NOTHING to do with this. Barney Frank and Dodd should be thanked. Get a fucking new line, the Blame Bush crap is getting old.
Bush has his share of the blame for sure, but to blame it solely on him, youre an idiot.
Actually you are DEAD fucking wrong, Read ROVEs bookQuote:
What did Bush do? "No Child Left Behind"? That shitty ass law left EVERY child left behind, hell they are as dumb as ever now! But no one contested that piece of shit policy. And im sure he reading your rant on this car forum saying "well this young man has a problem with it, so let me change it!" get over your self and deal with it. Life moves on. You need to rant? See a therapist, thats what they are there for.
What other LIES did bush do?
Improved test scores
The Department of Education points to the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) results, released in July 2005, showing improved student achievement in reading and math:[9]
* More progress was made by nine-year-olds in reading in the last five years than in the previous 28 years combined.
* America's nine-year-olds posted the best scores in reading (since 1971) and math (since 1973) in the history of the report. America's 13-year-olds earned the highest math scores the test ever recorded.
* Reading and math scores for black and Hispanic nine-year-olds reached an all-time high.
* Achievement gaps in reading and math between white and black nine-year-olds and between white and Hispanic nine-year-olds are at an all-time low.
* Forty-three states and the District of Columbia either improved academically or held steady in all categories (fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math)..
NCLB was a good idea and passed with BIPARTISAN support so why arent you criticizing the LEFT who voted OVERWHELMINGLY for this bill. I suppose its more of GEORGE BUSH LIED TO US :
The House of Representatives passed the bill on May 23, 2001 (voting 384-45),[6] and United States Senate passed it on June 14, 2001 (voting 91-8).[7] President Bush signed it into law on January 8, 2002.
Ill use a phrase from Obama," it didnt fix EVERYTHING wrong with the education system but it was a good step"