A question for our enlisted.

[TheProfiteer]

and Veterans


I know its a very touchy subject, but for all the troops that have come back from Iraq, or any other active combat tours. Tell me about:

The first time you killed a man. Describe the scenario, time place, and events that lead up to it. How did taking a life make you feel? Was it a personal kill, did you look into this man eyes as his life slowly bled out of him?

this is not a thread about hate, nor am I arguing against war, or the US presence in Iraq.

I really do just want a perspective.

[DirtyMechanic]

what makes you think everyone that has gone over has killed someone. and what makes you think they will tell you about it. usually its something they dont boost about to much. as a matter of fact i have yet to hear anyone that has come back say "hell you man i killed me some of them SOBs" and when asked they dont really answer. to me this thread is really uncalled for.

[TheProfiteer]

what makes you think everyone that has gone over has killed someone. and what makes you think they will tell you about it. usually its something they dont boost about to much. as a matter of fact i have yet to hear anyone that has come back say "hell you man i killed me some of them SOBs" and when asked they dont really answer.

I know man, im not really trying to make a positive or glorious thing about it.

I just wanna know what a person would go through, emotionally and mentally when they are forced to kill some one.

[Humphrizzle]

GO NAVY!

[bdydrpdmazda]

most of us actually lie when asked and say we havent killed anyone to avoid being asked to give all the details about it

[TheProfiteer]

most of us actually lie when asked and say we havent killed anyone to avoid being asked to give all the details about it

why?

[DirtyMechanic]

most of us actually lie when asked and say we havent killed anyone to avoid being asked to give all the details about it

truth

why?

because someone with a conscience and morals might have some hard times dealing with taking someones life. and your hear trying to get them to boost about it on a public forum. when they might have gotten through the hard times dealing with it.

[bdydrpdmazda]

why?

some things are better kept in the dark

[quickdodge®]

why?

It's not an easy thing to live with. I have never been in the military, but I can give what I think is the (partial) case in why someone wouldn't talk about taking another person's life:

Simply put...consciousness. (US) Soldiers go wherever and are forced into combat and end up killing people. They may go out and throw on their "gung-ho" face and and air out a war cry, but I can guarantee you that most of that is just hype. Just build up psyche. Like a football game, they get their adrenaline pumping so that they can go out there. That's some of these guys need to perform such a task. And the ones that go out whooping it up thinking to themselves "I'm killin' a motherfucker" thinking they really want to? I bet, although they know they are doing their job or whatever, but I bet they wished they didn't have to in the end. So I think it really plays on their minds and they'd rather forget about it.

But they can't. There is no way you can get the thought that you took another life out of your mind. No matter how much you DON'T even talk about it.

My grandfather has nightmares almost nightly from all his WWII goings on. He was in South Africa. He landed a boat in Normandy on D-Day. He didn't kill one person. And he still wakes up dripping with sweat almost nightly. I can't imagine what a dude/dudette goes through that DID kill another. Enemy or not. Later, QD.

[DirtyMechanic]

It's not an easy thing to live with. I have never been in the military, but I can give what I think is the (partial) case in why someone wouldn't talk about taking another person's life:

Simply put...consciousness. (US) Soldiers go wherever and are forced into combat and end up killing people. They may go out and throw on their "gung-ho" face and and air out a war cry, but I can guarantee you that most of that is just hype. Just build up psyche. Like a football game, they get their adrenaline pumping so that they can go out there. That's some of these guys need to perform such a task. And the ones that go out whooping it up thinking to themselves "I'm killin' a motherfucker" thinking they really want to? I bet, although they know they are doing their job or whatever, but I bet they wished they didn't have to in the end. So I think it really plays on their minds and they'd rather forget about it.

But they can't. There is no way you can get the thought that you took another life out of your mind. No matter how much you DON'T even talk about it.

My grandfather has nightmares almost nightly from all his WWII goings on. He was in South Africa. He landed a boat in Normandy on D-Day. He didn't kill one person. And he still wakes up dripping with sweat almost nightly. I can't imagine what a dude/dudette goes through that DID kill another. Enemy or not. Later, QD.

i believe to sum everything that was said up... it called being human.

[Humphrizzle]

killin's bad.

unless you're breakin up a jihad.

[Humphrizzle]

PTSD

[bdydrpdmazda]

PTSD

shits no joke


the deployment im on right now is a cake walk but i cant say the same about the one I was on back in 05-06

[Humphrizzle]

brother is enlisted military. His wife was enlisted military.

She was in Kuwait and told me how shitty it is over there...

Not as bad as most places but No where is safe now.

Thanks for being a hero, bwah.

[95alty]

Kuwait is where you WANT to be... and I know you want to know what we go through... But most of us cover it up. If you were in the military and a good friend of mine, I may talk to you about it because we bleed green... but other than that i keep it to myself. i cover it up in my joking personality and still have random day dreams. Only way to know how a man feels is to live the experience for yourself... I dont wish shit on no man and one of the things you have to remember is they are an object with a weapon, until you are alone and remember that objects face.

[Humphrizzle]

GO NAVY!

[TheProfiteer]

to take into account everything posted, I'll let this thread die.

So it is safe to assume that, even though the life you took is the life of an enemy, a life who's mission at that time was to take yours, you still feel guilt and remorse, and that in different circumstances the man you killed would be alive today able to reap the fruits of his existence.


The main thing I was trying to get at, is how does an impersonal war kill affect the you and your mindset as compared to a personal kill. See in war, you do not know the names of those you put down, and that plays a big roll in being able to let it go and accept vindication.

[DirtyMechanic]

to take into account everything posted, I'll let this thread die.

So it is safe to assume that, even though the life you took is the life of an enemy, a life who's mission at that time was to take yours, you still feel guilt and remorse, and that in different circumstances the man you killed would be alive today able to reap the fruits of his existence.


The main thing I was trying to get at, is how does an impersonal war kill affect the you and your mindset as compared to a personal kill. See in war, you do not know the names of those you put down, and that plays a big roll in being able to let it go and accept vindication.

what makes you think it impersonal... hes trying to kill you. you are trying to kill him. he is there for a job. so are you. he has a family. so do you. its the same on both sides of the war. just because you dont know his name means nothing.

[TheProfiteer]

what makes you think it impersonal... hes trying to kill you. you are trying to kill him. he is there for a job. so are you. he has a family. so do you. its the same on both sides of the war. just because you dont know his name means nothing.

to the insurgents in the middle east, its not their job. In their mind its a fight for freedom. They are trying to purge their land from a foreign invasion. They dont get paid, they dont get sign on bonuses, they dont have a KIA insurance plan.

again dont take my inquiry the wrong way guys. I am not trying to start an argument.

I am just tying to clarify a few things, like do you feel remorse for killing the enemy, do you empathize the loss their family goes through, and compare it what it would be like for your family if your trigger finger pulled just a few seconds to late and you were the one who was killed.


Do you think the politicians that send you guys to war feel anything when the enemy dies?

[bdydrpdmazda]

to the insurgents in the middle east, its not their job. In their mind its a fight for freedom. They are trying to purge their land from a foreign invasion. They dont get paid, they dont get sign on bonuses, they dont have a KIA insurance plan.

you are wrong with that thought. they get paid per american life they take or vehicle they destroy. this is why they video tape so much of their doings, as means of proof to take back to their boss to collect their earnings

[quickdodge®]

I am just tying to clarify a few things, like do you feel remorse for killing the enemy, do you empathize the loss their family goes through, and compare it what it would be like for your family if your trigger finger pulled just a few seconds to late and you were the one who was killed.

I would imagine there is a remorseful feeling lingering within. Should be human nature. You're fighting a "kill or be killed" game so it's either his life or yours. And who wouldn't rather it be his life and not yours? But I don't think any of those soldiers really wants to kill another person. Deep down.

Do you think the politicians that send you guys to war feel anything when the enemy dies?

Again, it's that "game" I mentioned above. I think they do feel like war sucks and they wish they didn't have to go through with it. But it has to be done and they can't show any fear or any sign of empathy when they are deep in battle. Later, QD.

[1990wade]

Yea my grandad has to sleep in a seperate bedroom now because of night terrors.. its truley sad in my book, i really need to see him more often
He was a warrant officer... he still has shrapnel in his head from a gernade went off right next to him it also messed up his hearing....

[quickdodge®]

you do not know the names of those you put down, and that plays a big roll in being able to let it go and accept vindication.

Wrong. That's what you WOULD THINK would play that role (not roll) in being able to let it go. As a whole, Americans are not brought up training to kill like a lot of other countries' children are. Later, QD.

[DirtyMechanic]

Wrong. That's what you WOULD THINK would play that role (not roll) in being able to let it go. As a whole, Americans are not brought up training to kill like a lot of other countries' children are. Later, QD.

yeah they arent teaching 12yr olds in classes how to use a ak-47

[95alty]

They are paid on a basis... And 9 times out of 10 we are giving their boss the money (truth be told) to have them cooperate. They glorify killing us, any service member you hear glorifying taking the life of another man most likely didnt do it and had no part in doing so. The politicians that send us feel nothing weather we kill or get killed.

[tony]

I know we go back and forth between branches but I do realize that unless you're in certain AFSC's (MOS) that the Air Force doesn't see action like that so much respect to those on the front line. I have a friend who is desensitized to the killing he has done and I know others who refuse to talk about it. Out of respect I never ask questions.

[ShooterMcGavin]

probably one of the more inappropriate threads i've seen on IA, like ever.