Friday Discussion... (illegals in america)

[4dmin]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...izona-rancher/

An Arizona man who has waged a 10-year campaign to stop a flood of illegal immigrants from crossing his property is being sued by 16 Mexican nationals who accuse him of conspiring to violate their civil rights when he stopped them at gunpoint on his ranch on the U.S.-Mexico border.

I heard this a few weeks ago and it was just posted in the politics section. Weigh in and post up what you think. I heard they are suing him for 32$ million and his ranch is worth 34$ million.

[SuperChicken]

The man was simply defending his property from illegal entry. He has that right. The fact that they were illegally entering the country is irrelevant. And the fact that they filed this suit just shows that illegal immigrants got BALLS.

[AirMax95]

This should not be an issue, nor wasting tax dollars for this trial.

one word = ILLEGAL!

WTF? What allows them to even make a case for this? Rights? What rights?

one word = ILLEGAL!

[4dmin]

The man was simply defending his property from illegal entry. He has that right. The fact that they were illegally entering the country is irrelevant. And the fact that they filed this suit just shows that illegal immigrants got BALLS.

Its crazy this guy to me is an American Hero he has captured more than 12,000 illegals and handed them over to boarder patrol . The guy should be give a medal and his own battalion b/c obviously he is doing more justice for this country then the fuck heads in Washington who seem to think this isn't a problem.

[quickdodge®]

The man was simply defending his property from illegal entry. He has that right. The fact that they were illegally entering the country is irrelevant.

That's the way I saw it. Unwanted trespassing. Whether it be a white or black or Asian or anyone, he had that right to protect his property, I think. Whether it was on the border of the country or over here in the subdivision I live in. It doesn't matter. If they win, the US is done for. Later, QD.

[rizzler]

That's the way I saw it. Unwanted trespassing. Whether it be a white or black or Asian or anyone, he had that right to protect his property, I think. Whether it was on the border of the country or over here in the subdivision I live in. It doesn't matter. If they win, the US is done for. Later, QD.

I agree 100 %
The man was only protecting his property due to past illegals coming in, leaving his property in shambles and they even broke into his house at least once. He should win in court.

[AirMax95]

$32 million my ass, lol.

again....ILLEGALS. They do not have the same rights as U.S. citizens, they tresspassed on U.S. soil, and they tresspassed/vandalized a mans property.

$32 million, What the Hail?

[SiRed94]

From the article, it just sounds like he is bitter from a few past experiences with them. However, illegals don't have rights and should not be granted access to the whole court process. If they want all that, they should go through the correct procedures to become a citizen. And technically, I don't know if holding them at gunpoint is justifiable especially if he was not threatened in any way. However, I am one of those people that does not have a problem with illegal immigration. The reason I don't care is because, you cannot stop it and it does have several benefits. I think holding them at gunpoint and turning them in to authorities was definitely a bit overboard. And the 30k spent on motion sensors is ridiculous, they could've spent that on putting up fences around the property. He should know by now that he can't stop it and just deal with it. Or atleast just force them off his property. Because, as soon as they get back home, they are just going to cross right back over.

[4dmin]

From the article, it just sounds like he is bitter from a few past experiences with them. However, illegals don't have rights and should not be granted access to the whole court process. If they want all that, they should go through the correct procedures to become a citizen. And technically, I don't know if holding them at gunpoint is justifiable especially if he was not threatened in any way. However, I am one of those people that does not have a problem with illegal immigration. The reason I don't care is because, you cannot stop it and it does have several benefits. I think holding them at gunpoint and turning them in to authorities was definitely a bit overboard. And the 30k spent on motion sensors is ridiculous, they could've spent that on putting up fences around the property. He should know by now that he can't stop it and just deal with it. Or atleast just force them off his property. Because, as soon as they get back home, they are just going to cross right back over.

They are going to keep crossing until we start taking force. I think this country is on a slippery slope with this problem. Illegals need to be treated like criminals b/c they are. If you get a DUI should you be able to keep your license and go on driving drunk? If you steal from a department store should you be able to keep stealing? No! I have a feeling that would could see some major backlash in the near future over illegals. They are lucky they weren't shot and he should have every right to do such since they are breaking into his house and destroying his property.

[C-loS109]

i have mixed feeling about this, i for one got here from colombia around 6-7 years ago legally and now i am a citizen. some get here legally but never go back making them illegal. mexicans arent the only illegal immigrants in this country so i dont know why everybody has such a hate towards them eventhough they perform the jobs most of us dont think of doing. but on the other hand they are taking from the ones that are supposed to be here. both natives and immigrants. the guy had all the rights to hold them at gun point, i even think he has the right to shoot them, right? if im wrong correct me. like i said i have mixed feelings about this and i dont think there is ever going to be an agreenment about this subject.

but one thing is for sure, like QD said, the guy was only protecting his property and it doesnt matter where it happens. he shouldnt be in the positions he is in.

[C-loS109]

They are going to keep crossing until we start taking force. I think this country is on a slippery slope with this problem. Illegals need to be treated like criminals b/c they are. If you get a DUI should you be able to keep your license and go on driving drunk? If you steal from a department store should you be able to keep stealing? No! I have a feeling that would could see some major backlash in the near future over illegals. They are lucky they weren't shot and he should have every right to do such since they are breaking into his house and destroying his property.

i think gwinnett county is taking force, i go to buford hwy almost everyday to go to work with dad, and i now have to take my citizenship because they are doing road blocks and stoping more people for small traffic violazitons just to catch illegal immigrants so they can be turned into immigration, before they would just get a slap in their hands.

[Vteckidd]

Thats like a burglar suing cause he broke into a house and fell on a knife.

THe illegal act negates their rights, they will not win

[Vteckidd]

And if i understand correctly its private property, they are trespassing

[4dmin]

Thats like a burglar suing cause he broke into a house and fell on a knife.

THe illegal act negates their rights, they will not win

You never know in this country there have been people do similar situations and win. Lady sued McDonalds b/c the coffee was hot, Guy sued RV b/c they didn't state in manual it didn't have autopilot

Don't get me wrong I have no problem w/ people wanting to come here and work. But I believe we have laws for a reason. What if terrorist are coming over the same boarders illegals are? Basically we as americans need to demand more from our gov to enforce such laws and security to protect its CITIZENS. When I travel abroad I don't feel entitled b/c I am American. I abide by the laws set forth by the their gov.

[Vteckidd]

you are right, dumber things have happened. I dont see how you can argue he violated their civil rights (which i believe they have), when they were ILLEGALLY TRESPASSING on his land.

I mean if they did win, that means pretty much Illegals can do whatever they want when they cross the border. you can argue that border patrol is violating their rights etc.

[quickdodge®]

Thats like a burglar suing cause he broke into a house and fell on a knife.

THe illegal act negates their rights, they will not win

There have been many, many cases where that "burglar" won. Later, QD.

[Vteckidd]

There have been many, many cases where that "burglar" won. Later, QD.

oh i know, but the precedent this would set would be unheard of.

Even if the WIN, the supreme court will over-rule it

[SuperChicken]

you are right, dumber things have happened. I dont see how you can argue he violated their civil rights (which i believe they have), when they were ILLEGALLY TRESPASSING on his land.

I mean if they did win, that means pretty much Illegals can do whatever they want when they cross the border. you can argue that border patrol is violating their rights etc.

I agree. The fact that this suit has even been brought sets a very dangerous precedent. I don't know the laws in NM, but here I have the right to kill someone who violates my home in order to protect my life and property. The rancher should have the same right, particularly with the history he's had will illegal aliens.

[4dmin]

oh i know, but the precedent this would set would be unheard of.

Even if the WIN, the supreme court will over-rule it

Actually we may want them them to win b/c if supreme court over-rules then it would get everything like this tossed out in the future immediately

[90_ACCORD]

yeah if there illegal they shouldnt even be able to file a case. if anything they just admitted they were illegal so they should be sent out of the country.

[90_ACCORD]

yeah if there illegal they shouldnt even be able to file a case. if anything they just admitted they were illegal so they should be sent out of the country.

[90_ACCORD]

yeah if there illegal they shouldnt even be able to file a case. if anything they just admitted they were illegal so they should be sent out of the country.

[Vteckidd]

The MceeDees coffee thing, i can see how they lost, hear me out.

They had a product that was WELL ABOVE the recommended serving temperature. IIRC the "normal" serving temp for hot coffee was like 135-140 deg F. The lady was served it at 180 Degrees. It spilled in her lap, gave her 3rd degree burns on her vagina, and she had to undergo reconstructive surgery and a bunch of other stuff IIRC.

Now was she stupid of spilling it? of course. Could the same damage have been done if the coffee was at 130-140 degrees? Doctors said it wouldnt have been as bad nor near the amount of damage done.

Was Mcdonalds NEGLIGENT, thats a tough call. I mean if you serve HOT SOUP and someone burns their tongue did you intend for them to burn themselves? Well if you are supposed to serve that soup at 100 degrees and its at 150 degrees, then you fucked up.

Im not saying its right, but i can see where mceedees lost.

[BanginJimmy]

I agree with whoever said this guy should get a medal. The border patrol also needs to set up a damn station on his property as it seems to be the only area that is even marginally secure. I can also assure that NM laws on shooting trespassers are going to be MUCH more lenient that they are in GA. Hell, I would have thrown him a aprty if he shot and killed all of them . . well, all but 1 and send him back to mexico to relay the story to others.

Kinda reminds me of Black Jack Pershing in the Philipines. He had a problem with muslim terrorists there. He captured about a dozen of them at some point and they were sentenced to be executed. All but 1 were shot with bullets that spent the night soacking in pig's blood. The last one he let go. There was not a single other attack by muslims aginst US intrests in the remaining time he was there.

[G.C]

There's no way they will win.

[VegetaRules]

so i dont know why everybody has such a hate towards them eventhough they perform the jobs most of us dont think of doing.

Okay, now this is the statement I hate the most whenever this topic is brought up. Americans would do all these job illegals do, we just won't do them for $5 an hour, because we pay taxes on it, while illegals don't!!

I hate that shyt, I'd mow a mofo's grass if he paid properly, but most illegals don't, since you're not paying taxes, you can "bring down" the proper payscale for these " jobsmost Americans won't do".

The best way to put it is like this. Mowing 10 acres per se' is a $15 per hour job. The owner of set property knows that, so he sends out job position. 3 people apply; 1 African-American, 1 White person, & 1 hispanic.

The white & black people KNOW the jobs worth $15, but the hispanic guy says " hey, I'll do it for $8 & bring a friend who'll do it for $6. Naturally the guys going for the cheaper alternatives.

So now his buddies see they can get cheap labor, now all of a sudden $8 is the going rate for that job, when it should be closer to $13-14 whatever. That's where I have the biggest problem.

The illegal ones are just happy to be here making money, since they take most of it & send it home to rebuild their house, or buy a house, ect. So they deflate the job market, & make jobs that used to be paid higher lower, so only they can really afford to do it, because again, no taxes, the workers in US pay for the health insurance as well.

So it's not just as simple as saying " oh we'll do what you Amreicans won't do".....Vegeta

[C-loS109]

so i dont know why everybody has such a hate towards them eventhough they perform the jobs most of us dont think of doing.

Okay, now this is the statement I hate the most whenever this topic is brought up. Americans would do all these job illegals do, we just won't do them for $5 an hour, because we pay taxes on it, while illegals don't!!

I hate that shyt, I'd mow a mofo's grass if he paid properly, but most illegals don't, since you're not paying taxes, you can "bring down" the proper payscale for these " jobsmost Americans won't do".

The best way to put it is like this. Mowing 10 acres per se' is a $15 per hour job. The owner of set property knows that, so he sends out job position. 3 people apply; 1 African-American, 1 White person, & 1 hispanic.

The white & black people KNOW the jobs worth $15, but the hispanic guy says " hey, I'll do it for $8 & bring a friend who'll do it for $6. Naturally the guys going for the cheaper alternatives.

So now his buddies see they can get cheap labor, now all of a sudden $8 is the going rate for that job, when it should be closer to $13-14 whatever. That's where I have the biggest problem.

The illegal ones are just happy to be here making money, since they take most of it & send it home to rebuild their house, or buy a house, ect. So they deflate the job market, & make jobs that used to be paid higher lower, so only they can really afford to do it, because again, no taxes, the workers in US pay for the health insurance as well.

So it's not just as simple as saying " oh we'll do what you Amreicans won't do".....Vegeta

1 u fail at quoting and 2 if u had a little bit of reading comprehension u wouldve read this so u have now wasted ur time. and made me waste mine too

they perform the jobs most of us dont think of doing. but on the other hand they are taking from the ones that are supposed to be here. both natives and immigrants.

[4dmin]

Okay, now this is the statement I hate the most whenever this topic is brought up. Americans would do all these job illegals do, we just won't do them for $5 an hour, because we pay taxes on it, while illegals don't!!

I hate that shyt, I'd mow a mofo's grass if he paid properly, but most illegals don't, since you're not paying taxes, you can "bring down" the proper payscale for these " jobsmost Americans won't do".

The best way to put it is like this. Mowing 10 acres per se' is a $15 per hour job. The owner of set property knows that, so he sends out job position. 3 people apply; 1 African-American, 1 White person, & 1 hispanic.

The white & black people KNOW the jobs worth $15, but the hispanic guy says " hey, I'll do it for $8 & bring a friend who'll do it for $6. Naturally the guys going for the cheaper alternatives.

So now his buddies see they can get cheap labor, now all of a sudden $8 is the going rate for that job, when it should be closer to $13-14 whatever. That's where I have the biggest problem.

The illegal ones are just happy to be here making money, since they take most of it & send it home to rebuild their house, or buy a house, ect. So they deflate the job market, & make jobs that used to be paid higher lower, so only they can really afford to do it, because again, no taxes, the workers in US pay for the health insurance as well.

So it's not just as simple as saying " oh we'll do what you Amreicans won't do".....Vegeta

Well put - that is the worst excuse i've ever heard. Gov is going to have to weigh on this some time in the near future b/c the problem is growing.

[VegetaRules]

1 u fail at quoting and 2 if u had a little bit of reading comprehension u wouldve read this so u have now wasted ur time. and made me waste mine too

Ooooo, I guess you told me huh? I read exactly what you said. Whether you added that at the end or not, the prevailing thought was " we do what y'll won't do". Period, it's the 1st thing that comes out of an illegals mouth whenever this subject is brought up.

It was also the 1st thing that came out of your mouth as well, which was the entire point. Had you prefaced it by saying "but on the other hand they are taking from the ones that are supposed to be here. both natives and immigrants.", then we wouldn't have a problem.

Also I don't care if you felt your time was wasted, this is my opinion, just like yours is yours. I know exactly what I meant & what I said. Also, let's please not get into compairing brain cells son, you'd lose horribly & it wouldn't be close....Vegeta

[Friggintitsman]

I say fuck em. They are not citizens they are illegal immigrants. They can get citizenship just like anyone else, but they just have to go through the proper channels.

I'm all for someone wanting to come here and better themselves, but this is getting out of hand.

[Friggintitsman]

Sterilize them and send them back home.

[§treet_§peed]

i say shoot them. because win this case or not they'll try it again. next time around they might make a plot to kill the farmer.

[AirMax95]

How are they allowed to bring forth a trial? Does anyone know?

[§treet_§peed]

^ there are loop holes in every law.

[§treet_§peed]

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher
Claim violation of rights as they crossed his land
Jerry Seper (Contact)
Monday, February 9, 2009

An Arizona man who has waged a 10-year campaign to stop a flood of illegal immigrants from crossing his property is being sued by 16 Mexican nationals who accuse him of conspiring to violate their civil rights when he stopped them at gunpoint on his ranch on the U.S.-Mexico border.

Roger Barnett, 64, began rounding up illegal immigrants in 1998 and turning them over to the U.S. Border Patrol, he said, after they destroyed his property, killed his calves and broke into his home.

His Cross Rail Ranch near Douglas, Ariz., is known by federal and county law enforcement authorities as "the avenue of choice" for immigrants seeking to enter the United States illegally.

Trial continues Monday in the federal lawsuit, which seeks $32 million in actual and punitive damages for civil rights violations, the infliction of emotional distress and other crimes. Also named are Mr. Barnett's wife, Barbara, his brother, Donald, and Larry Dever, sheriff in Cochise County, Ariz., where the Barnetts live. The civil trial is expected to continue until Friday.

The lawsuit is based on a March 7, 2004, incident in a dry wash on the 22,000-acre ranch, when he approached a group of illegal immigrants while carrying a gun and accompanied by a large dog.

Attorneys for the immigrants - five women and 11 men who were trying to cross illegally into the United States - have accused Mr. Barnett of holding the group captive at gunpoint, threatening to turn his dog loose on them and saying he would shoot anyone who tried to escape.

The immigrants are represented at trial by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), which also charged that Sheriff Dever did nothing to prevent Mr. Barnett from holding their clients at "gunpoint, yelling obscenities at them and kicking one of the women."

In the lawsuit, MALDEF said Mr. Barnett approached the group as the immigrants moved through his property, and that he was carrying a pistol and threatening them in English and Spanish. At one point, it said, Mr. Barnett's dog barked at several of the women and he yelled at them in Spanish, "My dog is hungry and he's hungry for buttocks."

The lawsuit said he then called his wife and two Border Patrol agents arrived at the site. It also said Mr. Barnett acknowledged that he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998.

In March, U.S. District Judge John Roll rejected a motion by Mr. Barnett to have the charges dropped, ruling there was sufficient evidence to allow the matter to be presented to a jury. Mr. Barnett's attorney, David Hardy, had argued that illegal immigrants did not have the same rights as U.S. citizens.

Mr. Barnett told The Washington Times in a 2002 interview that he began rounding up illegal immigrants after they started to vandalize his property, northeast of Douglas along Arizona Highway 80. He said the immigrants tore up water pumps, killed calves, destroyed fences and gates, stole trucks and broke into his home.

Some of his cattle died from ingesting the plastic bottles left behind by the immigrants, he said, adding that he installed a faucet on an 8,000-gallon water tank so the immigrants would stop damaging the tank to get water.

Mr. Barnett said some of the ranch´s established immigrant trails were littered with trash 10 inches deep, including human waste, used toilet paper, soiled diapers, cigarette packs, clothes, backpacks, empty 1-gallon water bottles, chewing-gum wrappers and aluminum foil - which supposedly is used to pack the drugs the immigrant smugglers give their "clients" to keep them running.

He said he carried a pistol during his searches for the immigrants and had a rifle in his truck "for protection" against immigrant and drug smugglers, who often are armed.


A former Cochise County sheriff´s deputy who later was successful in the towing and propane business, Mr. Barnett spent $30,000 on electronic sensors, which he has hidden along established trails on his ranch. He searches the ranch for illegal immigrants in a pickup truck, dressed in a green shirt and camouflage hat, with his handgun and rifle, high-powered binoculars and a walkie-talkie.

His sprawling ranch became an illegal-immigration highway when the Border Patrol diverted its attention to several border towns in an effort to take control of the established ports of entry. That effort moved the illegal immigrants to the remote areas of the border, including the Cross Rail Ranch.

"This is my land. I´m the victim here," Mr. Barnett said. "When someone´s home and loved ones are in jeopardy and the government seemingly can´t do anything about it, I feel justified in taking matters into my own hands. And I always watch my back."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...izona-rancher/

[§treet_§peed]

http://www.desertinvasion.us/invasio...n_barnett.html

[BanginJimmy]

How are they allowed to bring forth a trial? Does anyone know?

You dont have to be a US citizen to file a civil suit in American courts. You only have to have council that is licensed to work in the state and file the suit in the correct juristiction. Once those 2 criteria are met, it becomes a question of interpretation, which is something that no one can predict. The sad thing is that this rancher is goingo have to spend a huge sum of money to defend himself against this, even though 99% of sane Americans would see it for what it is, a frivilous lawsuit.

[§treet_§peed]

This is where the US gov't will hit the brick wall. Because if they win this one, a shit load will follow.

[BanginJimmy]

the govt MUST do something about this. Win or lose this will hurt the US. Unless our southern border is locked down this country will NEVER be safe from terrorism. Any one with a couple grand can be rbought through the border with anything they want. I have a feeling that it wont take long before someone finds a way to get either a bio, chemical or nuke weapon though that.

[AirMax95]

You dont have to be a US citizen to file a civil suit in American courts. You only have to have council that is licensed to work in the state and file the suit in the correct juristiction. Once those 2 criteria are met, it becomes a question of interpretation, which is something that no one can predict. The sad thing is that this rancher is goingo have to spend a huge sum of money to defend himself against this, even though 99% of sane Americans would see it for what it is, a frivilous lawsuit.

Damn, I learned something new. I am guessing that there is no way to toss the case if it makes NO FREAKING SENSE? After this, the rancher is not going to be happy. The next illegals may not be so lucky to just get turned over at gun point.