Quote Originally Posted by carrascopa
here we go.... YOur getting very technical and I was trying to keep the discussion light for the people on this board, as this is not an mma forum in any way shape or form..

1. more then adcc which is where infact Jake tapped Fitch... Shields is an mma champion and also a friend of mine.. My point was that GSP is rated #1 @WW.. and Shields is rates # 6,7 depends on whos ranking system..

but it is my opinion that GSP is waaaay overrated... and dont flame me for that.. its simply an opinion.. I know mmath never totally adds up, but based on historical data mmath is 72% accurate when trying to analyze a match up based on previous competition..

I merely was taking the examples given by the previous poster and stating that In my opinion if GSP cannot finish a guy that my boy shields would probably tear up in an mma match, then GSP is not as dominate as the previous poster proclaimed.. ( if you are going to use those match ups as examples.. )

2. GSP trained alot with Renzo, alot alot alot alot alot alot.. it was when his issue with Matt Serra came up that GSP started going to Brazil and training there.. when GSP actually was given his first black belt he earned it in brazil and not at Jacksons camp..

It was only a few months ago during the big Black belt ceremonies in NY i believe is when GSP and Renzo mended the relationship and Renzo did infact give GSP his black belt under him also..

I promise you, GSP has his black from Renzo also, and that is the belt he is claiming..the whole Brazil thing kinda got swepped under the rug after that..

3. I think it is awesome that you are a Penn friend and fan.. but there are no clear mma rules to judge a fight by like you state.. the judges are appointed by each states athletic commision and they are boxing judges not mma judges.. mma addopted the boxing method of judging with the 10 point must system.. but that really has nothing to do with the unified rules of mma as the rules do not cross over into the judging world...

for you to sit there and say that BJ clearly lost the first fight based on mma rules is very misleading to people who dont know any better and I would like for you to be more cautious when stating opionions as facts..

if he clearly won the fight there would not have been a split decision. But infact, 1 judge gave the fight to Penn..

MMA as a sport is only what?? 9 years old?? and that fight was 2.5-3years ago.. I stand by my statements that the judges in mma are now much more informed then they were back then and it is my opinion that based on current judging standards they would have absolutely given that fight to Penn..

the LAy and Prey antics that GSP used in his first fight with Penn are no where near as widely tolerated as they were back then. GSP's inactivity on the ground would now be immediately nullified by a referee forced stand-up..

you can say whatever you want.. but the fact is This debate can go on and on and on and on... with mma being so new and available to everyone alot of missinformation is given out..

ex.. people out there actually thought Kevin FErguson aka Kimbo Slice was a legit HW contendor when he wasnts..

and you sir are contributing to that kind of ignorance with your post about judging rules that dont exist.. and claiming that BJ clearly lost the fight..

GSP dont think he won that fight,.... he may say he does now, but thats not what he was saying in the locker room post fight..

BJ thinks he won the fight, and he still stands by that..

so i guess my point is that you talk a good game, but i dont believe in you, you smoke alot of blunts but I got more weed then you..

but props for being a BJ fan, although your the first BJ friend and Fan I have met that thought he lost that fight bro.. thats something you should not tell too many people in the same breath as Im friends with bJ..


I would also like to add that If you would like me to source my information for you I will gladly do it.. but it does sound like you will grasp my points here... but if you want sources bro, videos, photos, interview, articles, whatever, just let me know.. I ll send em right ova!

First off, you bringing up the fact that Shields taps Fitch, isn't really relevant, but the way you stated it made it out to be like Shields isn't a top WW, when in fact he is. Either way, it doesn't matter. Guys get tapped all the time, it's not a big deal. ADCC isn't MMA, so it's not even really relevant.

GSP overrated? I don't agree with that. If that's the case, then all the WW's are overrated, because he's beaten all of them with the exception of Alves.

GSP was a brown belt under Renzo, as I trained under Renzo and Paul Creighton for quite some time. I can easily find out, but I'm almost 100% that Renzo didn't award him a BB, and that he just endorsed the fact that GSP deserved it. I can easily find out though, as I can just call Renzo or Paul to get the story straight.

MMA in the this country under the "unified rules" does use the 10 pt must system, but what does that have to do with them not being MMA rules? They were created for boxing, and I agree, they don't really work for MMA, but they are in fact MMA's judging criteria in this country, so within the confines of how fights are scored, GSP won. Please tell me how you would award GSP the 3rd round under the 10 pt must system? He simply couldn't have won that round. The LnP that GSP used was total bullshit, and I don't agree with it, but it does allow people to squeak out decisions. The same way that shitty TD attempts are ok in this country, because you don't have to suffer knees to the head. Also, the fact that you're using Cecil Peoples as an example shows how little you know about the history of the state athletic commissions judging. Cecil Peoples has fucked up many score cards, so his view is always taken with a grain of salt. With that said, if this fight would've taken place under Pride's rules, BJ would've won without a doubt, but it took place in the US, so no dice on that one. Again, I don't agree with it, but getting taken down and held down, even with no damage done, still scores points. Also, NJ actually uses separate MMA judges, so you're gonna start seeing the 10pt must system used, just with seperate MMA judges.

WTF does GSP not thinking he won the fight, when he got into the locker room. have to do with anything? He got busted up really bad in the 1st round, and hadn't even watched the fight yet, so how could he have been able to really judge his performance? After he saw the fight, he knew he won, but he knew that BJ made him look like a total, complete, clown, and that it was his toughest fight to date.

LnP tactics aren't tolerated now? That's a laugh. LnP is just as much a part of the game now, as it was then. Jeez, Okami and Lister just had a bore fest that saw Dean get CUT from his contract! That shit happens all the time.

BJ thinks he won the "fight" but not under the confines of the rules. His EXACT words were "This isn't the Ultimate Takedown Championship, it's the Ultimate Fighting Championship", and went on to state that he doesn't really care for the way that fights are judged, but that his mistake was not being in shape and letting GSP pin him up against the fence, etc.

BTW, I replied to your PM, so if you wanna reply to this, just send it to my inbox, that way we don't flood this thread with our BS, lol.