A world without order...

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Originally Posted by xlivingfor1x

so how do we achieve this? in reality, are we already no living this theory that you have? i mean you can do whatever you want and no one can force it on you, its up to you whether you follow the majority. but everyone else still has the freedom to follow it if they like and elected officials still have the right to push you around whether you feel the are right or wrong?

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Things have evolved much further than the basic premise that I gave you. While we are still capable of making our futures out to what we want them to be (to some degree), we are still bound by the laws, processes, and regulations set upon us by others. I've trouble finding a descent place to run to.

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Originally Posted by xlivingfor1x

my brain is starting to hurt. ha

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Don't worry, it's a good thing in this instance. :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by Ran

While we are still capable of making our futures out to what we want them to be (to some degree), we are still bound by the laws, processes, and regulations set upon us by others. I've trouble finding a descent place to run to.

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i posted this earlier:

"this is something that i have thought about and racked my brain about for the last 3 years. i hate feeling that i am subjected to one set path for my life. ex. highschool, college, career, pay taxes, family, hopefully retire at a reasonable age, die. why am i taught that i do not have a choice, why am i taught that if i dont follow this set plan for americans, then i am "irresponsible"? why can i not choose weather i want to move around to places where i know nothing about it and test myself as a human being, as a creation of the creator, as a man?

why am i defined by what i do or my financial status? why cant it be about who i am and what i did with my life while i was stuck here? i hate to do it, but a movie quote comes to my mind and its from one of my favorite movies, braveheart. its right after william wallace has been betrayed by the nobles and he is at his sentencing. he is charged with treason to the king and wallace replies "never in my life have i sworn allegiance to him." and the reply was, "it matters not, he is your king"...i understand that americans are not subjected to such things as rape and murder from the government and government officials, but i can help but feel that we have no choice but follow the rules set for us by our government just because we were born here. i mean if i chose to leave the country now because i did not like the way things were, i could not do this without the proper documents and identification. i can hop the border and go to mexico or canada but those are my choices. why am i limited to so very little?

i still feel like i am playing by the rules and covering my ass until i can get out of this "enslavement" whether i come back or not is another story.(hence the reason i am going to europe next summer)

no one has excuses anymore for not living the life they want to live, not white, black, brown, "khaki, whatever that color is." im sure there is opression still, but people have to stop blaming everyone else for what has happened to them. be a man, grow a pair and overcome it. maybe the things you do to get what you want arents so clean. maybe you have to follow all the rules to get out(like me) but you have every bit of control of getting what you want."



i share your same frustration

This has turned out to be a much better thread than I anticipated and it's really helped me settle down by discussing it with you guys. Thanks a lot. :)

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Originally Posted by Ran

This has turned out to be a much better thread than I anticipated and it's really helped me settle down by discussing it with you guys. Thanks a lot. :)

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ha yea. considering its the WL and is usually filled with ignorant mudslinging and stupid callouts.

nice to have a change of pace every now and then.

Ever reviled, accursed, ne'er understood,
Thou art the grisly terror of our age.
"Wreck of all order," cry the multitude,
"Art thou, and war and murder's endless rage."
O, let them cry. To them that ne'er have striven
The truth that lies behind a word to find,
To them the word's right meaning was not given.
They shall continue blind among the blind.
But thou, O word, so clear, so strong, so pure,
Thou sayest all which I for goal have taken.
I give thee to the future! Thine secure
When each at least unto himself shall waken.
Comes it in sunshine? In the tempest's thrill?
I cannot tell - but it the earth shall see!
I am an Anarchist! Wherefore I will
Not rule, and also ruled I will not be!

Well shit, I leave for an hour, or two, and this biatch goes up to 7 pages!

I feel so out of the loop now, lol!

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Originally Posted by AirMax95

Well shit, I leave for an hour, or two, and this biatch goes up to 7 pages!

I feel so out of the loop now, lol!

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haha i went to lunch and it had two posts, came back and it had 44

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Originally Posted by xlivingfor1x

haha i went to lunch and it had two posts, came back and it had 44

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Damn intellectuals.....

Ok, now that I read through the pages, I see Ran's point. I must admit that I have questioned A LOT of what I have been told and experienced growing up. My religious upbringing grounds me, in the sense that there is God that "moderates" this world. Yes, there are people who constantly question it scientific rherotic, or even just denounce it period.

It is hard for me to openly discuss it with family and friends, because many of them share my beliefs and such.

If you follow the bible, even a little, this world makes sense to you. Laws are laws....it started with the 10 commandments, IMO. Adam & Eve could not follow directions from the beginning of time and were punished. Laws have been in place to bestow order (in some form, lol).

Now, there also has been a person/force that wishes to defy the laws set in place and use the same arguments that Ran has listed. Do they make sense, very much so! Usually, though, these people/forces are negative in actions and intentions. They want to do the opposite, but history proves that it causes chaos and disfunction. Then majority rule kicks in, because you are disturbing the normality of life. Sure, in some cases that normality is not in the best interest (some dictators come to mind), but until another majority rule leaps the current, it is what it is.

You see, now matter how much you want to be "free" there will ALWAYS be things that will bind you to a standard. Until there is a better way to conduct life, other that majority rule, then we are destined to follow it. We are intellectual, social, and intelligent beings. Even if we changed the current, order would form again. There would be a new set of standards, heiarchy, and laws.

In closing, to answer Ran's questions, the basic drives for life are instilled in every individual on earth. It is us who choose to unleash this power and harness its capability. I think that people enslave themselves and therefore hinder their ability to enjoy life. Everyone who is born into this earth is given guidelines and instinct. It is up to YOU to adapt and conquer. Even if everyone was left to fend for themselves, or rely on survival of the fittest, you would still have to make decision based on a standard norm.

So I just watched this and its completely relevant to this thread.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05277695921912

Yes its Zeitgeist, but no its not a 9/11 conspiracy thing, this one is new.



WATCH IT

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Originally Posted by AirMax95

Damn intellectuals.....

Ok, now that I read through the pages, I see Ran's point. I must admit that I have questioned A LOT of what I have been told and experienced growing up. My religious upbringing grounds me, in the sense that there is God that "moderates" this world. Yes, there are people who constantly question it scientific rherotic, or even just denounce it period.

It is hard for me to openly discuss it with family and friends, because many of them share my beliefs and such.

If you follow the bible, even a little, this world makes sense to you. Laws are laws....it started with the 10 commandments, IMO. Adam & Eve could not follow directions from the beginning of time and were punished. Laws have been in place to bestow order (in some form, lol).

Now, there also has been a person/force that wishes to defy the laws set in place and use the same arguments that Ran has listed. Do they make sense, very much so! Usually, though, these people/forces are negative in actions and intentions. They want to do the opposite, but history proves that it causes chaos and disfunction. Then majority rule kicks in, because you are disturbing the normality of life. Sure, in some cases that normality is not in the best interest (some dictators come to mind), but until another majority rule leaps the current, it is what it is.

You see, now matter how much you want to be "free" there will ALWAYS be things that will bind you to a standard. Until there is a better way to conduct life, other that majority rule, then we are destined to follow it. We are intellectual, social, and intelligent beings. Even if we changed the current, order would form again. There would be a new set of standards, heiarchy, and laws.

In closing, to answer Ran's questions, the basic drives for life are instilled in every individual on earth. It is us who choose to unleash this power and harness its capability. I think that people enslave themselves and therefore hinder their ability to enjoy life. Everyone who is born into this earth is given guidelines and instinct. It is up to YOU to adapt and conquer. Even if everyone was left to fend for themselves, or rely on survival of the fittest, you would still have to make decision based on a standard norm.

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well put:goodjob:

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Originally Posted by AirMax95

Damn intellectuals.....

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First off, let me say this was an outstanding post. :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by AirMax95

If you follow the bible, even a little, this world makes sense to you. Laws are laws....it started with the 10 commandments, IMO. Adam & Eve could not follow directions from the beginning of time and were punished. Laws have been in place to bestow order (in some form, lol).

Now, there also has been a person/force that wishes to defy the laws set in place and use the same arguments that Ran has listed. Do they make sense, very much so! Usually, though, these people/forces are negative in actions and intentions. They want to do the opposite, but history proves that it causes chaos and disfunction. Then majority rule kicks in, because you are disturbing the normality of life. Sure, in some cases that normality is not in the best interest (some dictators come to mind), but until another majority rule leaps the current, it is what it is.

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The Bible also states that mankind is unfit to rule itself. Not to turn this into a religious debate, but if what you say is true then why should we abide by the laws and regulations set forth by man if God's will is divine law in the end? What if man's law says different from God's? While I respect your religious stance, I see organized religion as corrupt as the governing bodies in the political realm. However, I do not see the religious aspect in itself to be the enemy. Only those that would force their beliefs onto others and force them to obey "divine" law. As long as a religion focuses on those that willingly submit to it, then that's fine.

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Originally Posted by AirMax95

In closing, to answer Ran's questions, the basic drives for life are instilled in every individual on earth. It is us who choose to unleash this power and harness its capability. I think that people enslave themselves and therefore hinder their ability to enjoy life. Everyone who is born into this earth is given guidelines and instinct. It is up to YOU to adapt and conquer. Even if everyone was left to fend for themselves, or rely on survival of the fittest, you would still have to make decision based on a standard norm.

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I really like where you went with this part and I agree 100%.

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Originally Posted by Ran

The Bible also states that mankind is unfit to rule itself.

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where?

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Originally Posted by xlivingfor1x

where?

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I'm getting off work in 20 minutes so I won't be googling scripture at the moment. I'm fairly certain it's in Revelations when God is giving his speech on the second coming, the resurrection, and why it is needed.

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Originally Posted by Ran

I'm getting off work in 20 minutes so I won't be googling scripture at the moment. I'm fairly certain it's in Revelations when God is giving his speech on the second coming, the resurrection, and why it is needed.

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thats fine. im not saying your lying. just wanted the verse. but i do agree that man is unfit to rule themselves but only when it comes to morals. if we follows laws and morals set forth from god then we are perfectly capable of living and governing each other

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Originally Posted by xlivingfor1x

thats fine. im not saying your lying. just wanted the verse. but i do agree that man is unfit to rule themselves but only when it comes to morals.

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Thanks. I'll see what I can't dig up. Though I'd rather this not go into a "God's Law vs. Man's Law" debate.

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Originally Posted by xlivingfor1x

if we follows laws and morals set forth from god then we are perfectly capable of living and governing each other

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I can't honestly comment here. I've seen an equal amount of good and evil come from people claiming to obey scripture. With that in mind, I'll refrain from taking this particular subject any further as it's getting off topic.

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Originally Posted by Ran

Thanks. I'll see what I can't dig up. Though I'd rather this not go into a "God's Law vs. Man's Law" debate.

I can't honestly comment here. I've seen an equal amount of good and evil come from people claiming to obey scripture. With that in mind, I'll refrain from taking this particular subject any further as it's getting off topic.

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thats fine. i dont want it to go there either