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Thread: On Religion

  1. #1
    Curiously Cynical DrivenMind's Avatar
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    Default On Religion

    As a child I was always very concerned with the idea of God. The notion that someone was always watching me did not make me feel secure, or like I was being looked out for so much as I was being spied on. I saw no evidence to suggest that there was an illimitable spirit that personally and directly interacted or influenced the lives of people around me. No matter how bad or good things were going for them. I was baptized before I knew what it meant, and was expected to take things like the bible, and Jesus very seriously. But even as a child the bible, and very idea of religion seemed drastically out of whack with what I observed in the world around me. While I found the metaphorical lessons that were taught in the Bible to be of some pragmatic value, I found none of the comfort, or security that everyone claimed made it so special.

    Then there were the churches, hoards of people pressed and dressed in their Sunday's best, but always somehow feeling insincere, and vaguely arrogant to my innocent eyes. People always asking that familiar American question, "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior?" When I was younger I'd always answer "Not yet, but I'm looking." which never seemed to be the answer anyone was looking for, but they were generally polite about it anyway.

    My family was very poor for the fist eleven years or so of my life, we lived in a 70s era trailer park, in Largo Florida just a few miles from Tampa bay and spent a good portion of those years living on food stamps, and clothing that was donated to us. We were the kind of people you'd expect to be asking for divine assistance. But I knew of no other place, or any other way of live, so the trailer park was very much home to me. I saw no reason to pray for another way of life.

    When good fortune happened upon us, my family moved to Peachtree City Georgia, and started living on eight or nine times the income we had previously. We lived in a house that couldn't be towed around by a truck for the first time, and being from poor Florida I had never seen a basement basement before. Suddenly my parents felt compelled to find God, and worship him as thanks for all the good things that were happening in their lives. But being that my mom worked as hard and as passionately as she did, I saw our transition from white trash to middle class, as merely my parents efforts paying off, thanks to a bit of good luck, although my mother in particular though not exceptionally religious, wanted to insist that divine intervention had something do with it.

    The quality of the churches we attended improved with our transition, and the services were certainly more interesting with all the high tech stuff the churches could afford in our area, but my interest in real world applicability of the bible was short lived, and somehow the religious message still didn't seem sincere. Something still seemed slightly off about it. As a kid especially in my family you didn't dare question god, the bible, or Jesus, and even though no seemed to take the concepts as seriously as their implications seemed to suggest. This confused me, if so many people took this idea so seriously and were so dedicated to it, why aren't they living their lives more closely in accordance with the principles they all claim to stand for. It was around this time my ex-military staff Sargent father started drinking heavily, and becoming violent, unpredictable, and abusive.

    But it didn't matter we were "blessed" again in 01, and my family moved to Marietta, and further up the income totem pole. We started attending a church in Alpharetta called North Point, with pastor Andy Stanley, and while it was certainly a far cry from the southern Baptist craziness I had grown up with, and in some cases I came away actually having learned something, about human nature, but I was still not interested in the literal belief of religion. As I progressed through high school and began to get more exposure to other beliefs people took literally, I started to find myself very turned off by idea as a whole, admittedly I felt very guilty about this, and thought that there was something wrong with me for thinking such a thing. Surely I was going to hell for thinking of something so sacred as mostly silly and misinterpreted.

    Just before my junior year in high school within a period of a year or so, myself, and three of my closest friends all lost our fathers. All within the same neighborhood, and all well before we had known how to say goodbye. It was my last attempt to take religion seriously. After this I started researching the darker side of the worlds religions, something I didn't really want to know about until I decided I could careless about being labeled a heretic. I started to notice how people who really have an interest in God, are the ones who know they're about to meet him, or the ones who have suffered such a tragic loss they need the hope of being reunited with their loved ones. But looking back I find it amazing how much it took for me to have the courage to question, and denounce my faith.

    Has it ever occurred to you that the very things a majority of us hold to be sacred are quickly becoming outdated, and obsolete? While the argument is often made that religions teach a sort of implied morality, this argument is merely subjective when taken out of sociological context, or applied to another religion held by a group of people with a different worldview. Case in point would be the vastly different definitions of morality held by Islam, and Christianity. While Christianity seems relatively benign to those brought up as it’s followers, and much less barbaric when held in comparison with a religion like Islam they are both guilty of the same trait that seems to make religion so dangerous; A sort of irrational self-righteous arrogance, that believers often mistake for enlightenment, or intangible salvation. When a person sincerely believes that another individual will be sentenced to eternal damnation, and torture for not following sharing the same beliefs, to an extent they effectively remove some of their humanity.

    Do you really think you'd still believe the way you do if it wasn't something you were born into, or brought up with? Few people seem to be able to distinguish the difference between choice and acceptance, and regional religious upbringing. However some people have no desire to subscribe to any oppressive dogma, no matter the sales pitch. Some people believe religion has plagued, and hindered man kind for long enough, and that it's time to reconsider the way we view one another, devoid of any religious distinction. Think of all the awful things that have happened to people over the course of history, in the name of something no human being can prove. What makes your religion any more sacred than anyone elses? And what makes you think religion is a prerequisite for leading a good life? to Ask a holy man what exactly is to be gained by proselytization. Is god's existence contingent upon popular consensus? Have all the atrocities committed against human life by organized religion over the course of history, been worth their weight in advancing morality, and human society? Is religion the only path to spirituality, or is it the cognitive baggage we inherit from the birth of our intelligence as means making us comfortable in the face of the unknown, or uncomfortable?

    Beyond that which cannot be proved, there is no state of being a religious person can claim that an atheist cannot achieve.

    "The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired."
    –Stephen Hawking

    "Religion is the human response to being alive, and having to die."
    -F. Forrester Church



    I was working on this earlier intending to keep it amongst all my other word files, but I figured it'd be worth posting here, to see how people respond to it. I finished A Brief History of Time yesterday, and felt compelled to put down some of my thoughts.
    Last edited by DrivenMind; 10-17-2008 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Delightfully Creepy Ran's Avatar
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    Granted it's all a perspective given on personal experience, it was an interesting read. I'm sure different people will have a different take on your philosophy and beliefs, but I'd like to see some serious responses to it. Religion has it's benefits and consequences as well as it's dark and light sides. There are always two faces to the coin no matter what it is. I'm certain there are more sheep born into a religious belief then there are actual believers who study and do their research on the subject matter. It is these small, yet large, differences that make all the difference in judging a religion and it's followers.

    I'd type up a more elaborate response to your post but, to be honest, I just really don't have the motivation to do so right now.

  3. #3
    HEY! you there. Thighs's Avatar
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    i agree with you 100% on all this. i hate the way religion is used as a crutch to alot of people and for many others as ammunition for why they are better than the next person.
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    Curiously Cynical DrivenMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ran
    I'd type up a more elaborate response to your post but, to be honest, I just really don't have the motivation to do so right now.
    Fair enough. A sentences is fine by me.

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    ( . )( . ) inmymouth _Christian_'s Avatar
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    I think the most interesting part of your post is about religious upbringing. Most people aren't open minded enough to decide their religion, because they are brainwashed from a young age. Not to say that any religion is wrong, but most people will believe what they are taught about religion and accept nothing else. If I were to have children and teach them any religion of my choice, I think they would full heartedly believe in it. I was brought up as a Catholic. I went to a Catholic school for 9 years, but I personally think the belief in deities is absurd.


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    jort enthusiast alpine_aw11's Avatar
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    I'll finish this up later, I'm at school and can't distract myself. From what I've seen we share similar views. But with me religion never took, my parents attempted to raise me Catholic but it never worked even when I was a little kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Problematik
    I think the most interesting part of your post is about religious upbringing. Most people aren't open minded enough to decide their religion, because they are brainwashed from a young age. Not to say that any religion is wrong, but most people will believe what they are taught about religion and accept nothing else. If I were to have children and teach them any religion of my choice, I think they would full heartedly believe in it. I was brought up as a Catholic. I went to a Catholic school for 9 years, but I personally think the belief in deities is absurd.
    I think in most cases you are correct, most people stick with the religion that they are brought up with, but in my fathers case, he was brought up Catholic and his mother, my grandmother was as close to a Catholic Angel as I have ever met. You talk about walk the walk and talk the talk, that woman was VERY holy and she wasn't always that way. She found religion/God/her savior late in life after she had felt lost for a long time. She was an incredible woman to say the very least and I miss her tremedously.

    Anyway, back to my Father. He was raised Catholic and was influenced all his young life by it. My Father as an adult found his present religion and never looked back. I have known other friends growing up in High School that were Jewish-Catholics, Methodist, Penacostil (<spelling) that have changed to Baptist, Church of God and Methidist.
    I don't believe the practicing Christians are uncertain about their faith. I think the sheep are the ones that only go to church to be seen and say they go to church, but they are not really practicing, they are only going through the motions.

    BUT on that notion, who am I or who is anyone to say what their relationship with God and or Jesus is.
    My belief on religion is: religion is the form in which you worship, but Christianity is the actual relationship you have with your God. To be a Christian is to have a relationship with God. With that being said, I also believe that- just as my relationship with one person is different from your relationship with that same person, my relationship with God is specific to me and God as your relationship is specific to you and God. No one can tell you how to worship correctly. That is a internal personal decision and commitment.

    I believe in God, I pray, I worship, I go to church, I don't push my religion or beleifs on anyone, I might express my thoughts as I am now but I don't think you HAVE to believe what I believe, I would love for you to, but it's your perogative what you think.


    On the original post, I can relate. When i was young, I was FORCED to go to church and read the bible by my mother. I despized it deeply. As I got older into my teen years I definately rebelled against religion and church. As I came into my adult years I began to see that there is something that is guiding my life and I believe that praying and following the bible does affect my life.
    I realize it's not for everyone and actually most of my friends are either NOT practicing or do not believe at all(athiests), but when i am asked, i relay my beliefs and they respect me for it. It's not a large deal to me if you do not believe, it's up to you. I would like for you to believe because, personally, I see transformations in people that have found a relationship with God from hateful, un-happy people to very nice and friendly people. Not to say everyone that doesn't beleive in God is that way, I am just relaying the extreme peronality changes that I have personally witnessed in people I know and socialize with. There is somethig to it. I also know that once you have really known god and have or had a relationship with him he doesn't let go. There is always something inside of you that hangs on to at least a little part of your relationship with him.

    As for the hipocrocy in church and the difference between Sunday beleivers and the rest of the week, well....their behavior is not your excuse for yours. In otherwords, because those certain people dress up in their sunday's best, go to church and act all Christian on Sunday and then go out and cuss like a sailor and act how ever they want during the week, doesn't give you an excuse to say "well they are supposed to be Christians and act like that, why should I act any different", their behavior doesn't excuse your actions, especially as a free thinking adult.

    That's my ....
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