this is why i hate the human race

Easy there buddy, easy. I'm not saying go over there with nothing but a brick, I'm saying that after the fight and everyone is rounded up, then beat them with a brick. Take out your pent up anger on them.

I am truly sorry for your friends, I hate to hear of any loss of life within our Armed Forces. :(

No, I haven't been there, but I grew up military so I consider the military family. Let's get back on track of this thread though, the dog was innocent.....the insurgents are not. What they did was sick, video taping it made it even sicker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Autumn

i support the military, but they really had no right to do that. i know they did that for enjoyment and got pleasure from it. that's sick. you can't justify that.

so you are telling me that if a soldier rapes a young girl, films it, and shows to everyone, they all get a laugh at it, that it's alright? if you think it's alright, then maybe you should get your head examine.

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comparing dogs to humans ? what if they raped the dog ? or hit the woman over the head with a brick ? hell, if we hit men over the head with bricks, its cool, lets make a movie.

Im not supporting the beating of a dog by any means, ive stated my opinion above already, but your comparison is very far fetched

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Autumn

no i'm not putting it in the same category. hyper50 already mentioned it. i'm just saying if a soldier rapes a young girl, does that make it alright?

i wouldn't be equally mad. you are just saying since they go through a lot while over there, that they are not mentally stable, basically. so does it make it right to do what you please? no, it doesn't. most of the time if someone does something like that, they were already doing it before they went over seas. plus if they do that there, what makes you think they aren't going to do it when they come back over here?

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ones behavior there is normally nothing like what they do back in the states... dont ask me how i know. id love to see you spend half of a 15 month deployment overseas in combat and see how your mentality and your views change on subjects. Id suffice it to say if you are female you'd spend a lot of time on your back over there..... and its not because you are a whore in the states, but over there, women do crazy things because its "free" time to themselves and certain things are looked at differently over there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultm8mind

I'll tell you what, I'll give you a brick and you can go fight the guys who over ran my buddies about 2 weeks ago. I'd like to see you stand guard at that outpost with a brick. Thos guys ran out of ammo and could not be resupplied in an expeditious manner, explain that. But like I said, you've never been there and as long as I go back every other year I guess you figure you don't have to.

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what are you talking about ? apparently there are always more bullets just laying around all over the place for everyone to use. We never run out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Autumn

i'm not comparing it, oh my god. can you both not read?

they did it for entertainment value, which imo is sick.

i give up. you are trying to justify something that is not even right. you can say whatever you want to, but in the end of the day, they still laughed at the dog whimpering and crying. you CAN'T justify that.

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im not justifying anything...

if you read my first post... you'd see my point and where i stand. Had i been there, it wouldnt of happened.... PERIOD ! However, you label someone after seeing something without taking the time to understand a view point. I dont doubt that the people in the video have some sort of mental disorder... (i didnt and wont watch it) but it should be fairly obvious. But ofcourse, cast them to hell, not to help which is the problem with the civilian population nowadays... its the general concensus that their is no way people can be that messed up in the head and then you see evidence on a daily basis.

Am i making sense ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigric09

im not justifying anything...

if you read my first post... you'd see my point and where i stand. Had i been there, it wouldnt of happened.... PERIOD ! However, you label someone after seeing something without taking the time to understand a view point. I dont doubt that the people in the video have some sort of mental disorder... (i didnt and wont watch it) but it should be fairly obvious. But ofcourse, cast them to hell, not to help which is the problem with the civilian population nowadays... its the general concensus that their is no way people can be that messed up in the head and then you see evidence on a daily basis.

Am i making sense ?

---

Makes perfect sense to me. I know there are plenty of good people in the military who would have stopped that from happening. I applaude you for being one of the good ones. :goodjob:

I feel the same way as Ric. I would not have done it, have not seen nor will I seek the vid out.

Shouldn't we hold the people who are "defending our freedom" to a high standard of ethics? Whatever happened to the saying "don't disgrace your uniform"?:screwy:

Its B/S like Abu Gharib, and Guantanomo that turns a lot of the more moderate people over there against us. Dogs aren't very highly regarded over there so I imagine the natives didn't lose any sleep over it, but if these numbskulls were in my company they'd have dishonorable discharges right now:crazy:

There is a clear distinction between the necessity of killing dogs and killing dogs for enjoyment. Not only did these guys video-tape it, but they posted it on youtube. What kind of dumbass would do that? I really hope that most of our soldiers are smarter than that.

After the last two times this happened you'd think the Army would tell people on day 1 of basic training "hey, if you happen to kill any dogs... don't videotape it and put it on youtube". :ninja:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

Shouldn't we hold the people who are "defending our freedom" to a high standard of ethics? Whatever happened to the saying "don't disgrace your uniform"?:screwy:

Its B/S like Abu Gharib, and Guantanomo that turns a lot of the more moderate people over there against us. Dogs aren't very highly regarded over there so I imagine the natives didn't lose any sleep over it, but if these numbskulls were in my company they'd have dishonorable discharges right now:crazy:

There is a clear distinction between the necessity of killing dogs and killing dogs for enjoyment. Not only did these guys video-tape it, but they posted it on youtube. What kind of dumbass would do that? I really hope that most of our soldiers are smarter than that.

After the last two times this happened you'd think the Army would tell people on day 1 of basic training "hey, if you happen to kill any dogs... don't videotape it and put it on youtube". :ninja:

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in your honest opinion... is a dishonorable discharge the correct solution to the problem ?

1. You just released this demented fvck out into the world without any professional help.

2. Have not fixed the situation for either party.

Correct Solution

1. UCMJ definitely... of some sort.

2. Mental evaluation ordered and treatment for the individual sought after

3. Possibly discharge afterwards, or maybe you have fixed his real issues with step 2.

With you in the military, you need to learn that sometimes the best answer is not to discharge your problem... you should be trying to fix your problem and losing the negative military label that way. Not releasing him on the public and having the headline read "former military specialist slays school bus full of children"

Id imagine that (assuming you are high enough to make such decisions) your soldier has issues paying his bills and repeatedly has complaints and late payments.... you are the guy that says its time to teach this guy a lesson... UCMJ, 45 days extra duty, 45 days restriction, reduction in grade to E-2 and half a months salary for 2 months is the only answer..... meanwhile, not only did you create another problem by giving this guy even less money to spend, you havent fixed the previous problem. Too many people in the military jump to this as the only solution to anything....

ahhh, he messed up, punish him, he messed up, chapter him..... meanwhile, you dont fix anything, but hey, its no longer your problem right ?

Basic is not long enough as it is, but I can chalk this one up to the standards drop in enlisting the new generation of Soldiers. So let's not talk about ethics. Maybe they wanted to get kicked out, I don't know. This will definitely get you into trouble in most units. The majority of Soldiers are smarter, especially the older gen like myself. But you know it upsets me whenever people say this and that who've never been there. You have no idea what goes through these young impressionable minds. You can bring up things from five years ago to prove your point, that's fine too. There are "bad apples in the bunch," but are any of you willing to take their place? ANSWER THAT. Think of how often things like this happen here in the states and it NOTHING is ever said about it but lets broadcast whenever a Soldier does it. I do not condone it, nor would I allow it to happen under my watch. Honestly, come on.

this is insane,how can some of u defend these actions,just cause hes a solider doesnt make a difference,thats like saying o thats guys a good guy cause he goes to church....but then this was also the site where i saw alot people defending mike vick,so some of yall make me sick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HypnoToad

this is insane,how can some of u defend these actions,just cause hes a solider doesnt make a difference,thats like saying o thats guys a good guy cause he goes to church....but then this was also the site where i saw alot people defending mike vick,so of yall make me sick

i cant stand people that hurt animals

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i wrote something really long and it didnt go thru... .in a nutshell:

nobody is defending the kids in the video... simply saying that you have no idea what the real situation is and throwing to the wolves is probably not the right solution

your a son of a biitch u dumb mother fuker why would u post this shiit

Just to clarify I am not in the military, but if something like that happened under my watch I would not be very pleased with it. Maybe a Do discharge was a little extreme, and yes, I would definitely send anyone hurting animals to a psych evaluation. Many of the sickest murderers (Dahlmer, etc) began by torturing animals and an indicator of major psychological problems.

And about us "broadcasting it when a soldier does it"... it was the soldiers themselves who broadcast it when they video'ed it and put it up on youtube (assuming it was them who posted it). Maybe them posting it was a cry for help or something, but still when they are taking pictures and videos of their misdeeds, they should understand that doing crap like this reflects badly upon their services.

But if no one here in the states judges the actions of the units fighting over there, who will? Should the military operate in total secrecy, to avoid scrutiny from the public who support it with their tax dollars, and who staff it with their sons and daughters? Should we let these guys go over there and do stuff like this and assume when they come back to the States they will be OK?

Fume, out of curiousity, who were you referring to? If you were talking about the original poster, I feel you. He actively sought out the video, but us Soldiers are the sick ones? Granted I have seen and done things that I thought I'd never have to, it is the people who post things like this that bring disgrace to the uniform. Blame those of you that take the opportunity to spread this propaganda. You guys feed off of this, and some of you embrace the opportunity to send it to everyone to bring it out even more! But yeah Fume, I feel you.

No it is not okay Total Blender, and honestly there are sites, for instance YouTube that you can't even access for the most part over there. Well, unless you are in one of the "fancy" higher up type places that you can get your own internet access, which I've never been privvy to. I have rucked most of my career with the grunts, as well as Ric. It may have been them who posted it, I'm not saying it wasn't but more than likely it was someone else. I know everytime I was there, I'd try to go on sites, even this one and was blocked due to government "censorship" governing the sites we could go to. So, I dunno who posted it, but regardless it should not have been taped, but it was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

Just to clarify I am not in the military, but if something like that happened under my watch I would not be very pleased with it. Maybe a Do discharge was a little extreme, and yes, I would definitely send anyone hurting animals to a psych evaluation. Many of the sickest murderers (Dahlmer, etc) began by torturing animals and an indicator of major psychological problems.

And about us "broadcasting it when a soldier does it"... it was the soldiers themselves who broadcast it when they video'ed it and put it up on youtube (assuming it was them who posted it). Maybe them posting it was a cry for help or something, but still when they are taking pictures and videos of their misdeeds, they should understand that doing crap like this reflects badly upon their services.

But if no one here in the states judges the actions of the units fighting over there, who will? Should the military operate in total secrecy, to avoid scrutiny from the public who support it with their tax dollars, and who staff it with their sons and daughters? Should we let these guys go over there and do stuff like this and assume when they come back to the States they will be OK?

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I honestly feel as though the military should work in secrecy. The less we are in the public eye, the more we can carry out. It has only been since Iraq kicked off and the media being embedded has their been so many issues with things. Its war... and when you are the only one playing by the geneva conventions rules, things get a little lost in translation. I am coming from the Special Ops community where i get to work for the most part in secrecy... amazingly enough the only time you hear about us is when a mistake is made which is honestly a journalistic dream which usually turns out to be a bunch of BS later on in the research portion, but the damage had already been done. In saying this, it means you dont hear anything about the good that is done. Even now, you never will. Good news doesnt sell newspapers. And lets not forget, the people over their fighting are tax payers as well. I send 600 a month to taxes each month which is amazingly enough 1/5th of my paycheck.

Its not for you to JUDGE anything that goes on over there... until you can get out of your arm chair, put on some boots and get them dusty, your judging priviledges are non existant. That is why we have the geneva convention, that is why we put our own selves on trial and punish ourselves. Its an internal operation. Again, noone else plays these same games that we do.

What makes me laugh the most about your post, is that above you say "in MY company" .... well, you dont have one, nor will you ever. You will never be put in that position so its easy to stand on the outside and look in and say i would of this, i would of that...... but you dont know anything until you are there. I guess i can talk until im blue in the face... but i have 4 trips over, so i guess im afforded that right, however, you guys who have never gone will only read and not hear.

okay - for those actually arguing about the soldier etc, go watch the video then since you all obviously don't know whats in it

since A) its not on a base, B) the soldier wasn't carrying a weapon ( that I can recall, I sure as hell am not goign to watch it again ) and C) appeared to be in a civilian area with bicycles and such

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultm8mind

Fume, out of curiousity, who were you referring to? If you were talking about the original poster, I feel you. He actively sought out the video, but us Soldiers are the sick ones? Granted I have seen and done things that I thought I'd never have to, it is the people who post things like this that bring disgrace to the uniform. Blame those of you that take the opportunity to spread this propaganda. You guys feed off of this, and some of you embrace the opportunity to send it to everyone to bring it out even more! But yeah Fume, I feel you.

No it is not okay Total Blender, and honestly there are sites, for instance YouTube that you can't even access for the most part over there. Well, unless you are in one of the "fancy" higher up type places that you can get your own internet access, which I've never been privvy to. I have rucked most of my career with the grunts, as well as Ric. It may have been them who posted it, I'm not saying it wasn't but more than likely it was someone else. I know everytime I was there, I'd try to go on sites, even this one and was blocked due to government "censorship" governing the sites we could go to. So, I dunno who posted it, but regardless it should not have been taped, but it was.

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the original poster. i got nothing againts the military, i know how it is, i was raised during the war in Europe between Bosnia and Serbians if you remember that war

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fume

the original poster. i got nothing againts the military, i know how it is, i was raised during the war in Europe between Bosnia and Serbians if you remember that war

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I have a friend who was caught in the middle of the Bosnian/Serbian conflict. Heard it sucked very much bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigric09

I honestly feel as though the military should work in secrecy. The less we are in the public eye, the more we can carry out. It has only been since Iraq kicked off and the media being embedded has their been so many issues with things. Its war... and when you are the only one playing by the geneva conventions rules, things get a little lost in translation. I am coming from the Special Ops community where i get to work for the most part in secrecy... amazingly enough the only time you hear about us is when a mistake is made which is honestly a journalistic dream which usually turns out to be a bunch of BS later on in the research portion, but the damage had already been done. In saying this, it means you dont hear anything about the good that is done. Even now, you never will. Good news doesnt sell newspapers. And lets not forget, the people over their fighting are tax payers as well. I send 600 a month to taxes each month which is amazingly enough 1/5th of my paycheck.

Its not for you to JUDGE anything that goes on over there... until you can get out of your arm chair, put on some boots and get them dusty, your judging priviledges are non existant. That is why we have the geneva convention, that is why we put our own selves on trial and punish ourselves. Its an internal operation. Again, noone else plays these same games that we do.

What makes me laugh the most about your post, is that above you say "in MY company" .... well, you dont have one, nor will you ever. You will never be put in that position so its easy to stand on the outside and look in and say i would of this, i would of that...... but you dont know anything until you are there. I guess i can talk until im blue in the face... but i have 4 trips over, so i guess im afforded that right, however, you guys who have never gone will only read and not hear.

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I have not seen the video. Lets get that out of the way first.




But from the sounds of it, a soldier was the one taping it, why you would ever tape that is sick and demented. If you are going to do it for the dog's sake then do it quick and do not glorify it.


Anyone with a brain will see that the action reflects directly on those filming it, not the military.



I respect the military to the utmost degree for what they have to do. But i do not understand when people in the military get defensive and point at those who are civilians and call them lazy or not dedicated enough because they are not enlisted. You obviously joined the military for a reson, because you wanted to do it. No one forced you, it wasn't a draft to go to Iraq. Thats why i don't get why you would get high and mighty about the situation.


I agree to a degree that the Military should have more freedom to do what is necessary to get the job done but the people need to know what is going on. The people need to know facts though and the overall picture, not certain small instances that are blown up to the make the military look worse. The media is a bunch of shock jockey's that blow up anything that will increase viewers, i agree that it sucks, but it is the nature of the beast

At the end of the day its a job that you signed up for, its a path that you chose. And i respect you for the path you chose, but that respect is lost when you use your life to look down on me for the path i have chosen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucky DAWG

I have not seen the video. Lets get that out of the way first.




But from the sounds of it, a soldier was the one taping it, why you would ever tape that is sick and demented. If you are going to do it for the dog's sake then do it quick and do not glorify it.


Anyone with a brain will see that the action reflects directly on those filming it, not the military.



I respect the military to the utmost degree for what they have to do. But i do not understand when people in the military get defensive and point at those who are civilians and call them lazy or not dedicated enough because they are not enlisted. You obviously joined the military for a reson, because you wanted to do it. No one forced you, it wasn't a draft to go to Iraq. Thats why i don't get why you would get high and mighty about the situation.


I agree to a degree that the Military should have more freedom to do what is necessary to get the job done but the people need to know what is going on. The people need to know facts though and the overall picture, not certain small instances that are blown up to the make the military look worse. The media is a bunch of shock jockey's that blow up anything that will increase viewers, i agree that it sucks, but it is the nature of the beast

At the end of the day its a job that you signed up for, its a path that you chose. And i respect you for the path you chose, but that respect is lost when you use your life to look down on me for the path i have chosen.

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Well spoken man. :goodjob:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigric09

I honestly feel as though the military should work in secrecy. The less we are in the public eye, the more we can carry out. It has only been since Iraq kicked off and the media being embedded has their been so many issues with things. Its war... and when you are the only one playing by the geneva conventions rules, things get a little lost in translation.
.

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What about the press in Vietnam? Lots of news footage from that time shows soldiers shooting heroin and even worse. And Vietnam was also a war where the other side didn't follow the Geneva convention. Scrutiny of the press is nothing new, and I am told that the Army limits press access now much more than it did in Vietnam.

The difference is that now we live in a world of viral media. Pretty much everything we do is under some kind of surveillance, and nowadays everyone has camera/video/etc and the means to post to the web. You-tube videos get spread around like wildfire, and a bunch of people see some guys ****ing with a dog and don't have any context to put it into. It does blow things out of proportion a bit sometimes but it also helps expose stuff like this that happens and helps those involved get the help they need or the punishment they deserve.

And I do think that civillians should be able to scrutinize events like this, but should take the conditions of combat into consideration. We expect our soldiers to re-integrate into society as healthy citizens (and even to be leaders in their communities as civillians). So there should be transparency in how the military deals with events like this so civillians can be sure that the soldiers coming home are mentally fit for civillian life. :goodjob:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ultm8mind

Fume, out of curiousity, who were you referring to? If you were talking about the original poster, I feel you. He actively sought out the video, but us Soldiers are the sick ones? .

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Okay - 1 - I did NOT actively seek out the video - I stumbled across it, and TWO - I did not ONCE say soldiers were the sick ones - learn to ****ing read the original post. I said HUMAN race. It just so happened to be a person in uniform in the video doing it. Still a human dumbass.

And how the **** did this thread get to being about soldiers in conflict when this thread had nothing to do with it to being with :thinking:

**** it

http://theync.com/media.php?name=189...h-with-a-brick

Click on your own accord ( site has NWS ads ) - and maybe some of you will just shut the **** up and realize that all you have been talking about has been completely ****ing irrelevant.

( sorry Psycho )

Maybe we are all just seeing the video and not realizing the background.


What if said dog gave away your position to the enemy and got your buddy killed. You shoo him away but he comes back.. :dunno:

Tough to say without the background info.

-face palms face- this has nothing to do with the fact that it's a soldier doing it, just a human in general

Quote:

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Originally Posted by incawarrior

Maybe we are all just seeing the video and not realizing the background.


What if said dog gave away your position to the enemy and got your buddy killed. You shoo him away but he comes back.. :dunno:

Tough to say without the background info.

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really dude? really?





its ****ing sick any way you spin it
Couldn't have even imagined how bad the video was until i heard the poor dog whimpering





I would sleep peacefully for the rest of my days if i knew that guy died painfully

I DONT WANT A LINK, I DONT WANNA SEE SOME ONE ELSE WATCH IT. I DONT WANNA ****ING HEAR IT. I DONT WANNA HEAR ABOUT SOME ONE SISTERS, CUZINS, BEST FIENDS BROTHERS, UNCLE TWICE REMOVED!

I do not understand why people get in such an uproar over stuff like this. Killing the dog was pointless but you act like he just blew up a school bus full of little kids. People do much worst things to other people on a daily basis all over the world 24/7, yet you see this video and everyone goes crazy. Anyone in this thread that is so depressed and distraught over this random dog that eats meat needs to be punched in the face. This world is full of sick people, but there are just as many hypocrites out there too. Makes me sick when people care more about animal cruelty then Human cruelty too. That is the end of my rant. And no, I dont agree with animal cruelty but it is just the way the world is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 6.0GTO

I do not understand why people get in such an uproar over stuff like this. Killing the dog was pointless but you act like he just blew up a school bus full of little kids. People do much worst things to other people on a daily basis all over the world 24/7, yet you see this video and everyone goes crazy. Anyone in this thread that is so depressed and distraught over this random dog that eats meat needs to be punched in the face. This world is full of sick people, but there are just as many hypocrites out there too. Makes me sick when people care more about animal cruelty then Human cruelty too. That is the end of my rant. And no, I dont agree with animal cruelty but it is just the way the world is.

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Who is prioritizing one over the other, they are both bad.



Fact of the matter is though that all humans are inherintly evil to some degree and capable of bad things, the difference with this dog though is that it knows no better and is innocent. It does not have a mind capable of conjuring up evil like any human on this earth does. Plus dog's are used as pet's in America and is not uncommon in any way for people to be affectionate towards dogs in general for that reason.


That is the difference.



Its okay to feel bad for the dog... no one is going to call you a *****

^Be grateful that everyone can bask in this man's truthiness.

In your last few posts, you've pretty much said everything I've wanted to, yet better. Reps for you sir. Go Jackets.

I did not say I didnt feel bad for the dog, its just much worst things go on in the world every minute. We live in a sick sad world. I just hate when people get there panties in a bunch when some one video tapes this stuff and they sit there and watch it happen. This type of violence happens everywhere to everything, Get the fk over it. What if ten minutes before this video was filmed the dog attacked a little baby and scarred it for life, then everyone would not feel so bad for the dog, or in their minds they would justify the act. Either way, people need to get over it. People just like to ignore the cruel facts of the world, until they cant ignore it when a video is thrown out in front of their face, so then they get in a uproar...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 6.0GTO

I did not say I didnt feel bad for the dog, its just much worst things go on in the world every minute. We live in a sick sad world. I just hate when people get there panties in a bunch when some one video tapes this stuff and they sit there and watch it happen. This type of violence happens everywhere to everything, Get the fk over it. What if ten minutes before this video was filmed the dog attacked a little baby and scarred it for life, then everyone would not feel so bad for the dog, or in their minds they would justify the act. Either way, people need to get over it. People just like to ignore the cruel facts of the world, until they cant ignore it when a video is thrown out in front of their face, so then they get in a uproar...

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So i'm guessing you know what happened more then we do?



Are you gonna go solve world hunger?
Are you going to solve all the problems in the world?
Are you going to get rid of anger and violence in the hearts of all humans?



One step at a time super man, as i said before, its a poor dog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deke

^Be grateful that everyone can bask in this man's truthiness.

In your last few posts, you've pretty much said everything I've wanted to, yet better. Reps for you sir. Go Jackets.

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Haha thanks man, i'll ignore the last part :cheers:

Why the hell do people stand up for it.

Killing an innocent animal in an inhumane way is not admirable at all.

The fact that they recorded it simply shows they are taking this murder lightly and glorifying it.

And you want to talk about their background story.. shut the fuck up, who the **** cares about their background story, I cant think of one situation to diginify this action and videotaping it.

Tell me one. Honestly. One, real life situation that required someone to watch it happen, record it, glorify it, then post it on youtube as if to say "look what we did"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stormhammer

okay - for those actually arguing about the soldier etc, go watch the video then since you all obviously don't know whats in it

since A) its not on a base, B) the soldier wasn't carrying a weapon ( that I can recall, I sure as hell am not goign to watch it again ) and C) appeared to be in a civilian area with bicycles and such

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obviously you arent in the military either... civilian area, which means, NO PROTECTION OF A BASE, why use your only protection ?

just thought this was funny lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucky DAWG

I have not seen the video. Lets get that out of the way first.




But from the sounds of it, a soldier was the one taping it, why you would ever tape that is sick and demented. If you are going to do it for the dog's sake then do it quick and do not glorify it.


Anyone with a brain will see that the action reflects directly on those filming it, not the military.



I respect the military to the utmost degree for what they have to do. But i do not understand when people in the military get defensive and point at those who are civilians and call them lazy or not dedicated enough because they are not enlisted. You obviously joined the military for a reson, because you wanted to do it. No one forced you, it wasn't a draft to go to Iraq. Thats why i don't get why you would get high and mighty about the situation.


I agree to a degree that the Military should have more freedom to do what is necessary to get the job done but the people need to know what is going on. The people need to know facts though and the overall picture, not certain small instances that are blown up to the make the military look worse. The media is a bunch of shock jockey's that blow up anything that will increase viewers, i agree that it sucks, but it is the nature of the beast

At the end of the day its a job that you signed up for, its a path that you chose. And i respect you for the path you chose, but that respect is lost when you use your life to look down on me for the path i have chosen.

---

very well said.... now its my turn.

I agree with your media standpoint, which is how i feel except for the part about having the right to know what is going on over there. (to an extent). I agree you should know what is going on, but not from embedded reporters. They get in the way more than they help, both tactically, and then after the fact when they seem to only want to release the mistakes.

As far as getting defensive... that is an easy one to understand, let me help you. We joined on our own, no draft, i got that... we didnt join to go to iraq or afghanistan, we joined to serve our country, it just so happens that right now it means going to those places. These are not the only deployments i have been on. I've got 6 under my belt actually. So in 11 yrs of service, i have spent more than 3 of it deployed, another 3 of it overseas which means i have spent more than half of my time in, in another country. I have 4 trips to afghanistan with over 2 yrs of combat service.... why we get defensive is simple, the ones who havent gone love to tell us how there is no excuse for ones behavior over there and if they were there......... honestly, you will never know what justifies anything, because you will never set foot on foreign soil with the intent to defend your country. So often we get blasted for what goes on and 9 times out of 10 it has nothing to do with us. I could site for you many occurences i have experienced, none of the actual operation made public, but the aftermath made public and then our investigation and real findings not made public. Because the news was the bad, not the actual.

to get back on point, should whoever these idiots in the video have justification for what they did... definitely not. Is it right ? i dont know... if catholic priests can get away with what they do.... :) ... obviously its not right. Should they punished ? for sure... and psychiatric help would be a plus as well.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

What about the press in Vietnam? Lots of news footage from that time shows soldiers shooting heroin and even worse. And Vietnam was also a war where the other side didn't follow the Geneva convention. Scrutiny of the press is nothing new, and I am told that the Army limits press access now much more than it did in Vietnam.

The difference is that now we live in a world of viral media. Pretty much everything we do is under some kind of surveillance, and nowadays everyone has camera/video/etc and the means to post to the web. You-tube videos get spread around like wildfire, and a bunch of people see some guys ****ing with a dog and don't have any context to put it into. It does blow things out of proportion a bit sometimes but it also helps expose stuff like this that happens and helps those involved get the help they need or the punishment they deserve.

And I do think that civillians should be able to scrutinize events like this, but should take the conditions of combat into consideration. We expect our soldiers to re-integrate into society as healthy citizens (and even to be leaders in their communities as civillians). So there should be transparency in how the military deals with events like this so civillians can be sure that the soldiers coming home are mentally fit for civillian life. :goodjob:

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key words... ."i am told"

they have way more access these days than back then... also, back then the reporters held a lot of the burden for their own actions and whereabouts. Nowadays, amazingly enough, they fall under us to protect.... not to mention we seemingly have to protect all of the civilians we have over there as well that are there making 5 times the amount of money we are making for doing half as much.

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Originally Posted by incawarrior

Maybe we are all just seeing the video and not realizing the background.


What if said dog gave away your position to the enemy and got your buddy killed. You shoo him away but he comes back.. :dunno:

Tough to say without the background info.

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this could very well be the dumbest comment in the whole thread... thanks.

just to throw common sense out there.... if it were the case, would joe be running around with his video camera filming ?

Fume, I remember that war, LOL, cause I have served 13 months over there too, LOL. So yeah I do remember that one. Stormhammer, YES, getting deployed for some of us like me means actually patrolling through the villages and hunting down the insurgents and terrorists. Don't think for one moment that all of us just hang on post, although many do because that is where their job is. But for me, I actively had to seek and locate the "bad guys." I know guys can get outta hand, and if he had no weapon, why not use a brick. Do you realize that the locals ask us to kill the rogue animals? I et you don't. They do NOT want the rabid animals arouund to infect their kids with illness, cause if you haven't noticed medical attention and experience is not really a priority over there. I really feel though, if you have not been there than you have no justification for even talking about it. You do not know the circumstances and just figured you'd take what you saw and just interpret it your own way. But hey everyone is entitled to their freedom of speech, but hey I defend that right so go ahead talk it up. I'll defend the country so you don't have to. Remember freedom is not free and sometimes we go and do things we feel we need to for the defense of our country and those countries we are assisting.

My joes videotape fire fights, lol. But, it's all good.....