Obama '08

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power

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this would be a valid arguement if Bush was running again, but he isnt. This is simply voting based on your hatred for Bush and not for any knowlege of the canidates.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us.

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What regressive tax policy? If you mean lowering taxes, then yes he has done that.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden

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The rich already pay the lions share of the tax burden. In fact, the top 20% of wage earners pay more than 75% of all income taxes collected.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth.

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A corporation doesnt have any wealth. It may have assets, but that is all. The is why you always hear about fortune 500 corporations seeking credit from this bank or that bank.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

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So you honestly think that the oil companies are just going to take the added taxes out of their profit? What fantasy world do you live in, and how do i get there?

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die.

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You have a better chance of dying waiting on that xray with a socialized healthcare plan than you would under the current plan.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance.

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Life sucks huh. I can tell you for a fact that more than 90% of those that dont have health insurance are working dead end jobs, or not working at all. Maybe they should have stayed in school a little longer.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier.

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What country is this? I know that in Canada it is againt the law to pay out of pocket for a voluntary procedure. In England there have been MANY stories of people that have been denied treatment because of age or budgetary concerns.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run.

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Cheaper than what?

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing.

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so you think that companies will continue to spend the hundreds of millions of dollars to develop new drugs even though they know that their profit margin will take a very serious hit?

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

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Actually social programs such as these reward deviant behavior and do not promote people to better themselves.

Also an unrelated fact. In less than 10 years the US work force will not collect enough money to pay for SS and medicare in their current forms without trippling the tax rate and removing the cap. What do you think the added $300 billion or so to run socialized healthcare will cost you? Still think there will be more money in the economy?

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.

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Guess what, Obama doesnt care about you or your privacy. All he cares about is getting your money and removing all of those stubborn choices you have to make during your like.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.

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This argument is ripped to shreds so easily however I don't have time to gotta go take a drug test however I will when I get back.

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.

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1. As bangin jimmy said earlier the rich are ALREADY PAYING MOST OF THE TAXES! So you want them to pay more? LOL ok go ovte for Obama and see how long a lot of business stay here in the states.

2. I hate the term working class. My dad is in the top 10% if not higher of Americans as a small business owner and he WORKS HIS A$$ off. The term working class is honestly just a ploy by the democrats and the media to make the rich look that much more evil and it's stupid.

3.Oil companies paid a lot more than 30% as the corporate tax rate in America (last I checked) is 39%. We have the 2nd highest tax rate in the world short of Italy whoose Corporate tax rate is 39.5%. 3 years ago congress lifted a tariff on corporations on companies who brought money they made over seas back home. It generated 25-50 billion dollars in tax revenue(can't remember exactly sorry) where do you think that money went back to the rich? :thinking:

4. As far as executives getting $400 million dollars in retirement funds my question to you is this: SO WHAT? The person that get's that made a series of choices to get to that point in their life and you want to take that away from them? There's a system of government that redistributes the wealth and it's not called a democracy :goodjob: .

5.Universal health care is a joke. It has never worked anywhere. In fact if it's so great why are there CANADIAN citizens going to US BORDER states to get surgeries done if the system there is so great? :thinking: People in socialized medicine countries like parts of Europe and Canada live longer for one reason and it's not the health care system. It's their way of life. Europeans and canadians generally eat healthier and take care of themselves unlike I believe it's something like 60% of the adult population over 40 that is obese.

6. Answer this? Do you have anything to hide from the U.S. government? Do you honestly think that there is a guy sitting in a room listening to the billions of phone calls that go through this country everyday? The answer is no.

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Originally Posted by redGT

5.Universal health care is a joke. It has never worked anywhere. In fact if it's so great why are there CANADIAN citizens going to US BORDER states to get surgeries done if the system there is so great? :thinking: People in socialized medicine countries like parts of Europe and Canada live longer for one reason and it's not the health care system. It's their way of life. Europeans and canadians generally eat healthier and take care of themselves unlike I believe it's something like 60% of the adult population over 40 that is obese.

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Is has some truth to it, but even the mighty United States can cure everything.

I have an uncle who had some problem with his liver and other internal problems. The doctors here couldn't cure shit. After months of wasting money on useless medicine my aunt and uncle decided to go back to Mexico. A few months past and with real medicine and slowly started getting better. Now he's back and looks 10x better.

The US has incredible technology. Yet it seems that would rather spend money on wars then their own citizen.

Alot of them are too busy eating burger king to even care though.

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Originally Posted by redGT

1. As bangin jimmy said earlier the rich are ALREADY PAYING MOST OF THE TAXES! So you want them to pay more? LOL ok go ovte for Obama and see how long a lot of business stay here in the states.

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To add to RedGT


Do you honestly think it will only be the top 10% that get the tax increase?

Now read the history of the US income tax and the 16th amendment and tell me again if you believe this?

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

To add to RedGT


Do you honestly think it will only be the top 10% that get the tax increase?

Now read the history of the US income tax and the 16th amendment and tell me again if you believe this?

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Exactly. There was a law that the dems were trying to pass a few years back that for example:say you won't get hit hard with taxes if you make 60k a year. You own a house that's 180k but the guy down the street sells his house for 165k. Under that law that 15k difference between your house and his would have been declared "income" and you would have jumped above the 60k bracket.

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Originally Posted by adios

Is has some truth to it, but even the mighty United States can cure everything.

I have an uncle who had some problem with his liver and other internal problems. The doctors here couldn't cure shit. After months of wasting money on useless medicine my aunt and uncle decided to go back to Mexico. A few months past and with real medicine and slowly started getting better. Now he's back and looks 10x better.


Alot of them are too busy eating burger king to even care though.

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so what was wrong with him?

You also have to think, just like a car mechanic there are good docs and bad ones. He probably got a ****ty doc.

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Originally Posted by adios

The US has incredible technology. Yet it seems that would rather spend money on wars then their own citizen.

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Last time I looked the US was spending several hundred billion a year supporting the lazy, the illegals, and the stupid.

Wow, what a horrible thread this has turned out to be. Total_Blender's post seriously scares the sh*t out of me.

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Originally Posted by Ran

Wow, what a horrible thread this has turned out to be. Total_Blender's post seriously scares the sh*t out of me.

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Werd somebody has been drinking too much of the kool aid`

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

so what was wrong with him?

You also have to think, just like a car mechanic there are good docs and bad ones. He probably got a ****ty doc.

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A form of leukemia. He also became paralyzed and started to hallucinate about the past.

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Originally Posted by BanginJimmy

Last time I looked the US was spending several hundred billion a year supporting the lazy, the illegals, and the stupid.

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The lazy, and stupid would be the homeless.

Seeing as how they were born in the states yet refuse to make something out of themeselves just show's how spoiled this country is.

Just cause they don't have it their way, they get lazy and decided to stop trying. Sure some of the illegals don't pay taxes and health insurance or w/e. But they're out working not just sitting on the side of an on ramp waiting for a red light so that they could walk up and down asking for change.

Alex your post actually made me stop watching the new top gear for the 2nd time today.

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Originally Posted by adios

A form of leukemia. He became paralyzed and started to hallucinate about the past.



The lazy, and stupid would be the homeless.

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My question to this is this....Who cares and why is it my problem?I'm supposed to pay for someone else because they are lazy and stupid?

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Originally Posted by adios

Seeing as how they were born in the states yet refuse to make something out of themeselves just show's how spoiled this country is.

Just cause they don't have it their way, they get lazy and decided to stop trying.

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Again and I should I have to pay for this why.

As I remember the Decleration of Independence says life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness.

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Originally Posted by adios

Sure some of the illegals don't pay taxes and health insurance or w/e. But they're out working not just sitting on the side of an on ramp waiting for a red light so that they could walk up and down asking for change.

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these are the type of people I applaud but they still came here illegally and in certian states they can not be refused health care.

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Originally Posted by redGT

they still came here illegally

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No pity. They can be homeless back in their own country.

Politics is not my thing, I quit. Haha, I will say that this thread was not made to start a discussion about Obama and what's going on in the US.

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.

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Originally Posted by adios

Politics is not my thing, I quit. Haha, I will say that this thread was not made to start a discussion about Obama and what's going on in the US.

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.

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Just like with QD's joke thread, it was destined to be turned into a serious butthurt discussion.

I lol'd at the original pic though. :cheers:

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Originally Posted by Ran

No pity. They can be homeless back in their own country.

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as mean and cold hearted as some people will think that it is, it's the absolute truth.

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Originally Posted by redGT

as mean and cold hearted as some people will think that it is, it's the absolute truth.

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And even though I love my fellow mexicans, I can't help but to agree.

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Originally Posted by adios

And even though I love my fellow mexicans, I can't help but to agree.

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I have nothing in the world against Mexicans. Nice people, great food, fun parties, the whole enchilada. I've a problem with illegals who ignore the system's requirements but then expect it to take care of them.

Yeah I know, the process takes forever. Tough sh*t. Take the time and do it right. I, personally, would love to drop everything off in this country (including citizenship) to relocate in Japan and start my life over there. But guess what, I can't just up and do that because Japan would send my happy @ss back here in a heartbeat, as they should. There is also virtually no way to be granted Japanese citizenship without adequately prepared employment, residence, or marriage. Or at least not that I have found. Ignore the system? Get deported. That's the way it works and that's the way it should work here.

Sorry, just a rant.

You're the first person I've repped. + Juan!

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Originally Posted by Ran

I have nothing in the world against Mexicans. Nice people, great food, fun parties, the whole enchilada.

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:lmfao: :lmfao:

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Originally Posted by Total_Blender

I'll tell you why I'm voting for Obama. I'm tired of the neocon currently in power and the regressive tax policies they have been trying to foist on us. I say tax the rich. Theres no reason the working class should have to carry the lion's share of the tax burden when the major corporations and the top 1% of the population have all the wealth. Oil companies paid 30% of their gross as taxes? So what... if they are giving executives $400 million retirements it sounds like they are doing fine to me:screwy:

And for universal healthcare... why not? I'd rather wait in line for an X-ray than not get one at all and die. There are a lot of working Americans who still can't afford health insurance. For every story I've heard about someone in a socialized country having to wait on a procedure I've heard 2 or 3 stories about someone here in the states not getting the same procedure because they either can't get insurance or they are getting screwed over by their HMO. People in socialized medicine countries live longer than us and are healthier. I know a lot of America's health probalems are more cultrual than the fault of its health care system, but allowing more Americans access to health care will probably be cheaper in the long run. Like preventing people from getting cancer rather than helping them fight cancer. That sort of thing. The more people who are healthy, the more people who can work. The more workers the higher the GDP. etc.

And having a president that is not a neo-con in office would also mean that the whole wiretapping/surveillance/patriot act deal would be resolved. I trust Obama and the Dems with my privacy and my civil liberties more than I do McCain and the neocons. They have both voted for the Patriot Act, but at least Obama voted against the roving wiretaps.

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Go to a country like Ireland.




Half my famly lives there currently, my mom was born there. They have free medical care for everyone there. The doctors have no incentive to be highly trained because there is hardly any money in Healthcare there if you are good at what you do.


My grandad has had 3 heart attacks, he is not getting any better and the doctors he keeps getting WHEN HE IS ASSIGNED ONE are horrible and have had no idea what they are doing and have made no progress.


Medical Research and Medical training in different fields of medicine are spurred on by the fact that there is a monetary incentive, that is how the world works; people work harder when they get something out of it.


There are people in Ireland who do the same jobs as people here but get screwed for it because of the insanely high taxes.

I have a soft spot for the poor, i do volunteer work at school and at home. But i think you overestimate how many people out there still try and take advantage of the system.




In an ideal world these socialist programs work, but until we get over the animal instinct in all of us of its a Dog eat Dog world, it will never ever work.

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Originally Posted by adios

Politics is not my thing, I quit. Haha, I will say that this thread was not made to start a discussion about Obama and what's going on in the US.

Just to get a few giggle's or laughs, that's it.

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you couldn't have honestly thought that it wouldn't turn this way... this is one of the most polar elections in years.

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Originally Posted by redGT

My 2 biggest issues are this.

1. How does a man that has never tried to run a business or anything for that matter get the idea that he knows **** about economic policy

2.How does a guy that has never done anything with foreign policy or military action thinks he can finish a war?

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1. Ever heard of the Harvard Law Review?

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8

The man was explaining possible conflict between the Sunni and Shiite's back in 2002 in great detail while McSame still doesn't know the difference between the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg

That makes him more qualified than McSame to me.

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

and who cares if he doesn't vote, its just weeding out the morons if they don't vote

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Obviously you care enough to have your panties in a wad about people not voting.

Electing not to vote is no worse than voting if you don't like either candidate.

If someone asked (not forced) you to choose to get raped by a gorilla or a donkey, would you choose?

I have no problem with voting, I have voted in the past (voted in the primaries) and will vote in the future, but trying to vote for the candidate you hate the least is idiotic. The "have to vote" mindset is just another way to keep people under control and happy because they think that they have a say in the government.

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Originally Posted by AnthonyF

At lease McCain is intelligent and knows what the fuk he is talking about. Obama doesnt know a god damn thing. THATS why he wont debate McCain, b/c McCain will chew his ass out and shìt him out right there on the stage...and it'd still look better than the original Obama.

-Ant.

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See above post, first debate is coming and believe me.. McCain is far below Obama's level as far as intelligence goes.

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Originally Posted by tony

McCain is far below Obama's level as far as intelligence goes.

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Wow :rolleyes:

Proof?

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

Go to a country like Ireland.



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Just came out of surgery friday that I had to wait a month for, had I not gone to the ER last week I would have been waiting an extra 2 or 3 months. From my experiences and those around me, the current system is far from great.. hell at least with Universal care I'm not PAYING for the wait. But I forgot, the system is perfect.

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Originally Posted by hondabuilder

personally i have a hard time believing that obama supporters are so educated that they don't even need him to explain anything past his rhetoric.

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Try me

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Originally Posted by fcman

Wow :rolleyes:

Proof?

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Did you not read my other post or do I need more evidence for it to be made obvious that McSame doesn't know what the hell he is doing?

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Originally Posted by fcman

Obviously you care enough to have your panties in a wad about people not voting.

Electing not to vote is no worse than voting if you don't like either candidate.

If someone asked (not forced) you to choose to get raped by a gorilla or a donkey, would you choose?

I have no problem with voting, I have voted in the past (voted in the primaries) and will vote in the future, but trying to vote for the candidate you hate the least is idiotic. The "have to vote" mindset is just another way to keep people under control and happy because they think that they have a say in the government.

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by panties in a wad you mean calling him an idiot? I'm HAPPY he is not voting. There are way more liberals out there who do not vote then conservatives, so it benefits me...



And i think an elephant and a donkey would have been a better metaphor, but i hardly think it is relevant at all.



Whether or not you LIKE either candidate, one is going to serve the interest of you and your country better then the other in your mind, and to do nothing is pure stupidity when you are given so much.



In reference to the bolded: That is the dumbest thing i have heard, are you trying to tell me you have a conspiracy theory for voting? I would not doubt it has been tampered with before when on the wire like with the Florida controversy (although i don't think it did, but its not far fetched), but to have that overall opinion about the system is retarded.


This sounds like beating a dead horse with a stick, but go to another country where you don't get to vote; no matter how many times someone can tell you that age old saying, it still rings true.


This apathy is the main problem with America today, voting should always be something you do regardless.

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Originally Posted by tony

1. Ever heard of the Harvard Law Review?

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8

The man was explaining possible conflict between the Sunni and Shiite's back in 2002 in great detail while McSame still doesn't know the difference between the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg

That makes him more qualified than McSame to me.

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OK great he opposed the war from the beginnig. Reps to him for standing his ground. Unfotunately for him we are there. The guy said 16 months to bring the troops home. Now he has said he maybe changing his position :rolleyes: .

On top of that he thinks that pulling out of iraq will cause the ****es and the sunni's to come to a table and negotiate :thinking: . :lmfao: :lmfao: That's nuts :thinking: .

As far as I'm concerned the video of McCain doesn't prove anything people say flip flopped stuff all the time.

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Originally Posted by tony

Just came out of surgery friday that I had to wait a month for, had I not gone to the ER last week I would have been waiting an extra 2 or 3 months. From my experiences and those around me, the current system is far from great.. hell at least with Universal care I'm not PAYING for the wait. But I forgot, the system is perfect.



Try me

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my grandad has waited for 10 years for a transplant and it is nowhere in sight. Your month is nowhere near in comparison.


Don't let me come off as a **** because i feel bad that you had to wait but that is the nature of the beast Tony, you do not know the system there like i have had to with my family. By now my uncles could have mustered up the money for it and he would have gotten the operations he has needed.



Its a train wreck over there.

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Originally Posted by tony

Did you not read my other post or do I need more evidence for it to be made obvious that McSame doesn't know what the hell he is doing?

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None of them are DOING anything other than reciting speeches at the moment. Talk is cheap.

Since when is knowing the differences b/w very similar cultures/religions a definitive display of intelligence?

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Originally Posted by tony

See above post, first debate is coming and believe me.. McCain is far below Obama's level as far as intelligence goes.

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a Harvard degree gets you so far when your whole agenda is borderline socialist and you are completely disconnected from the people that you intend to lead and are incapable of taking a stand and simply attending the Senate to make key voting decisions which time and time again has been shown he does not do.

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Originally Posted by fcman

None of them are DOING anything other than reciting speeches at the moment. Talk is cheap.

Since when is knowing the differences b/w very similar cultures/religions a definitive display of intelligence?

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I agree on the second part.



McCain just recently has put a lot of his campaign in the hands of another man from the Bush Campaign in 04' (i forget his name) up to this point he has been reciting speeches he has mostly compiled himself with the help of a few others. He can hardly even read a teleprompter.


Obama's eloquence and excellent rhetoric has been read verbatim off of a telepromter written by someone else.

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Originally Posted by redGT

OK great he opposed the war from the beginnig. Reps to him for standing his ground. Unfotunately for him we are there. The guy said 16 months to bring the troops home. Now he has said he maybe changing his position :rolleyes: .

On top of that he thinks that pulling out of iraq will cause the ****es and the sunni's to come to a table and negotiate :thinking: . :lmfao: :lmfao: That's nuts :thinking: .

As far as I'm concerned the video of McCain doesn't prove anything people say flip flopped stuff all the time.

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What the video proves is this, John McCain had a reputation as a maverick, going against the grain to stand for what he believes in. I respected him as that but now as the GOP nominee his position is to appease his party rather than do what he feels is right. He stole the primary from the STRONGER candidate in Mitt Romney and now he is a puppet for the republican party. Believe it or not I would have voted for Romney over Obama but the minute McCain and Huckabee got together to take the West Virginia primary I lost all respect for the GOP.

So now you have this 71 year old bumbling idiot who is well past his prime and cannot mentally grasp what is going on in America because alzheimer's is probably setting in. He reads his positions from a script given to him by the GOP which is why he is labeled a flip flopper now.

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Originally Posted by tony

What the video proves is this, John McCain had a reputation as a maverick, going against the grain to stand for what he believes in. I respected him as that but now as the GOP nominee his position is to appease his party rather than do what he feels is right. He stole the primary from the STRONGER candidate in Mitt Romney and now he is a puppet for the republican party. Believe it or not I would have voted for Romney over Obama but the minute McCain and Huckabee got together to take the West Virginia primary I lost all respect for the GOP.

So now you have this 71 year old bumbling idiot who is well past his prime and cannot mentally grasp what is going on in America because alzheimer's is probably setting in. He reads his positions from a script given to him by the GOP which is why he is labeled a flip flopper now.

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I agree with you on the Mitt Romney point. But the whole last paragraph of your post is simply ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by tony

What the video proves is this, John McCain had a reputation as a maverick, going against the grain to stand for what he believes in. I respected him as that but now as the GOP nominee his position is to appease his party rather than do what he feels is right. He stole the primary from the STRONGER candidate in Mitt Romney and now he is a puppet for the republican party. Believe it or not I would have voted for Romney over Obama but the minute McCain and Huckabee got together to take the West Virginia primary I lost all respect for the GOP.

So now you have this 71 year old bumbling idiot who is well past his prime and cannot mentally grasp what is going on in America because alzheimer's is probably setting in. He reads his positions from a script given to him by the GOP which is why he is labeled a flip flopper now.

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I agree Mitt Romney was better.





Can you say Obama is doing anything differently though? He is running for the middle by talking about usually conservative christian social ideals. Trying to earn more votes and make him "look" less extreme.




Any candidate that has ever won the presidency has gone apart from his ideas in the general election to appeal to people outside of his normal demograhpic when he has already sealed their votes or atleast so he thinks.




If you are going to attack McCain on that then point the finger at Obama too

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

Whether or not you LIKE either candidate, one is going to serve the interest of you and your country better then the other in your mind, and to do nothing is pure stupidity when you are given so much.

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Never been one for egocentrism, sorry. And to think either is more right than the other is nothing more than closed-mindedness. Policies always seems right to the people that agree with them.

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

In reference to the bolded: That is the dumbest thing i have heard, are you trying to tell me you have a conspiracy theory for voting? I would not doubt it has been tampered with before when on the wire like with the Florida controversy (although i don't think it did, but its not far fetched), but to have that overall opinion about the system is retarded.

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Not a theory at all.

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Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg

This sounds like beating a dead horse with a stick, but go to another country where you don't get to vote; no matter how many times someone can tell you that age old saying, it still rings true.

This apathy is the main problem with America today, voting should always be something you do regardless.

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I'll bite hard on this , being a crazy CUBAN and all. Seems like YOU are the one out of touch with what democracy is. We have the CHOICE to vote. Perhaps you are the one that needs to go to another country...

Not trying to be harsh here, but it seems like no one is willing to exercise their freedoms, because no one knows how much they are really worth.

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Originally Posted by fcman

Never been one for egocentrism, sorry. And to think either is more right than the other is nothing more than closed-mindedness. Policies always seems right to the people that agree with them.



Not a theory at all.



I'll bite hard on this , being a crazy CUBAN and all. Seems like YOU are the one out of touch with what democracy is. We have the CHOICE to vote. Perhaps you are the one that needs to go to another country...

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Ofcourse policies seem right to the people that agree with them, that is what society is all about, what are you rambling on about?




What the hell does being Cuban have to be with it? You're right you do have the choice, and you also have the choice to be a responsible adult and go out and try and change something if you don't agree with it.



A miracle candidate is not going to pop out of thin air and say everything you want to hear. Are you just not going to vote until that happens? you won't be voting for a long time if so. If you actually and truely believed in what Obama is saying then i would encourage you to vote, if you wanted McCain then i would be delighted to have another vote on the board for him too.


It doesn't need to be written out that you need to vote for you to realize how important it is.




Exercising your freedoms would be taking a stance, not sitting back and watching the world pass you by. And you are right one vote won't change anything by itself, but by taking a positive attitude you will influence others around you into believing in their choice and that kind of attitude is contagious, or atleast i would hope so in this modern world; otherwise you will let others run all over you.

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Originally Posted by fcman

None of them are DOING anything other than reciting speeches at the moment. Talk is cheap.

Since when is knowing the differences b/w very similar cultures/religions a definitive display of intelligence?

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Lets define intelligence;

Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason

In that video McCain is in THEIR region, he has been briefed but he still does not understand the difference between the cultures. That knowledge is detrimental to any solutions being made in Iraq.

John McCain stated himself:

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"I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.”

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So if the man has limited knowledge of the culture in Iraq, and limited knowledge of Economics.. two very important issues in this country at the moment but I know I have heard Obama speak at lengths about both subjects, its quite easy to conclude that McCain is not on the same level as Obama as it pertains to things going on in this country today.

Furthermore, its no secret that if you typically put a 71 year old's mental stability vs someone in their mid 40's, the younger person has a greater mental capacity. There are exceptions but I seriously doubt McCain is one.

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Originally Posted by tony

Lets define intelligence;

Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason

In that video McCain is in THEIR region, he has been briefed but he still does not understand the difference between the cultures. That knowledge is detrimental to any solutions being made in Iraq.

John McCain stated himself:



So if the man has limited knowledge of the culture in Iraq, and limited knowledge of Economics.. two very important issues in this country at the moment but I know I have heard Obama speak at lengths about both subjects, its quite easy to conclude that McCain is not on the same level as Obama as it pertains to things going on in this country today.

Furthermore, its no secret that if you typically put a 71 year old's mental stability vs someone in their mid 40's, the younger person has a greater mental capacity. There are exceptions but I seriously doubt McCain is one.

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I agree to a point, Obama physically would have a more intellectual and more capable brain of learning new knowledge based on age, you can't get around that. But i just simply don't think he will be a good leader, he may know more but i just don't think he has good qualities of leadership; plus i just don't agree with a lot of his policies.



I see where you are coming from though Tony and always respectfully disagree because i see the sense in what you say.



But i do not understand where FcMan is coming from on justifying your right to not vote. I know you have the right, you have the right to sit on your ass and watch spounge bob all day; but it doesn't make you a responsible or respectful human being imo