Iraq: Did You Know

[soul]

And LMAO@ you people still calling whats going on over there a "War".. the "War" has been over for quite sometime.

And to RX8Dragon, i could come back with 98375698756 nasty replies to you. But i'm not...because im not stooping to your level and staring name calling. I see you think i was being negative toward the military....you're wrong.

Also, some of you should go check out how much the National Debt was when Clinton was in office vs. Bush.

neg rep'd? for what reason, other than your just a complete f.uckwad? lol, if feel sorry for little bitches like you... go get "high"

[JennB]

You really should lean not to always attack people who have differing opinions. Also, your insults are weak and you really should master the whole "your you're" thing.

It amazes me that people will claim they are fighting for freedom and the American way but when people use the wonderful thing that is freedom of speech to voice their opinions, people get so offended and for some reason think that they don't have the right to express that opinion anymore.

You feel sorry for people that don't agree with you? Personally, I feel sorry for people who don't have the right to disagree. I think freedom of speech and thought is a great thing and it's best when people use it. It opens dialogs, let's people see things from other perspectives and sometimes teaches people about things they never knew.

I fully support our military. I have nothing but respect for people who willingly give themselves to the service of their county but I do not agree with this war. I cannot support an administration that tells me flat out that we are invading a county because of weapons of mass destruction and later to find out that there was never any evidence to show those weapons ever existed. As for the 4,200 that are dead... those are humans. Those are people who left behind people who loved them and who will never again enjoy the wonder that is life. I do not think of them as a number. I do not think of them as a statistic. I believe that with video games, tv and so much violence around us that people think of them as a number and forget that they are real. This is not a video game, it's life. I also cannot support anyone who goes into a war without an exit strategy. I would never say a bad word about the men and women who are serving right now, all I want is for them to come home.



Some of us have the abilitly to discuss our opinions without name calling.

[soul]

You really should lean not to always attack people who have differing opinions. Also, your insults are weak and you really should master the whole "your you're" thing.

It amazes me that people will claim they are fighting for freedom and the American way but when people use the wonderful thing that is freedom of speech to voice their opinions, people get so offended and for some reason think that they don't have the right to express that opinion anymore.

You feel sorry for people that don't agree with you? Personally, I feel sorry for people who don't have the right to disagree. I think freedom of speech and thought is a great thing and it's best when people use it. It opens dialogs, let's people see things from other perspectives and sometimes teaches people about things they never knew.

I fully support our military. I have nothing but respect for people who willingly give themselves to the service of their county but I do not agree with this war. I cannot support an administration that tells me flat out that we are invading a county because of weapons of mass destruction and later to find out that there was never any evidence to show those weapons ever existed. As for the 4,200 that are dead... those are humans. Those are people who left behind people who loved them and who will never again enjoy the wonder that is life. I do not think of them as a number. I do not think of them as a statistic. I believe that with video games, tv and so much violence around us that people think of them as a number and forget that they are real. This is not a video game, it's life. I also cannot support anyone who goes into a war without an exit strategy. I would never say a bad word about the men and women who are serving right now, all I want is for them to come home.



Some of us have the abilitly to discuss our opinions without name calling.

yea, we all were expressing our opinions without name calling, i said ****, when i see a neg rep that says "die in a fire", when one he doesnt refer to me in his post or refrence my post or discusion weve been having the last couple of post. and i dont give a flying **** if i put your or you're. thank you, and i agree with alot of your post.

[Shawna]

did u know that I dont like Iraq???

[soul]

did u know that I dont like Iraq???

i dont like antartica

[Shawna]

hmmm good call

[95alty]

You really should lean not to always attack people who have differing opinions. Also, your insults are weak and you really should master the whole "your you're" thing.

It amazes me that people will claim they are fighting for freedom and the American way but when people use the wonderful thing that is freedom of speech to voice their opinions, people get so offended and for some reason think that they don't have the right to express that opinion anymore.

You feel sorry for people that don't agree with you? Personally, I feel sorry for people who don't have the right to disagree. I think freedom of speech and thought is a great thing and it's best when people use it. It opens dialogs, let's people see things from other perspectives and sometimes teaches people about things they never knew.

I fully support our military. I have nothing but respect for people who willingly give themselves to the service of their county but I do not agree with this war. I cannot support an administration that tells me flat out that we are invading a county because of weapons of mass destruction and later to find out that there was never any evidence to show those weapons ever existed. As for the 4,200 that are dead... those are humans. Those are people who left behind people who loved them and who will never again enjoy the wonder that is life. I do not think of them as a number. I do not think of them as a statistic. I believe that with video games, tv and so much violence around us that people think of them as a number and forget that they are real. This is not a video game, it's life. I also cannot support anyone who goes into a war without an exit strategy. I would never say a bad word about the men and women who are serving right now, all I want is for them to come home.



Some of us have the abilitly to discuss our opinions without name calling.

Thank you for your thought on my marines, soldiers, airmen, and seaman(no pun intended lol)... I am one of those service members and totally feel warm inside when people make posts like the one you made... thanks for your thanks

AND oh... one more thing






























IM HOME BABY COME GIMME SOME!

[Alan®]

TONY... pm me man we have to do lunch... my treat... beer or something.. you and red gt... i agree with everything you said... and 4200 should be 0... its sad when you have come in contact with 200 out of the 4200 dead... sucks...

Listen to this... one of my sergeants buddies is on his way back to al asad or however you spell it... from a convoy... his last before he hops the plane to kuwait and gets ready from post deployment... walking to chow at 0600 and hears a noise..... BOOM.... a random rocket hits him directly in the chest and explodes on impact... he had 1 more day in theater... it hurts man... really does to know my people out there getting killed, captured, beheaded, wounded, de-limbed, for stupid reasons... no matter what branch we are still brothers in arms

sounds good brotha just hit me up you know how to get a hold of me. I'm home on the weekends so any weekend(thursday-sunday) is good for me.

[Doppelgänger]

... go get "high"

...and why don't you go cook some rice with that bowl thats mounted to your dash. But if you want to think "4200 deaths is actually pretty good", then do whatever floats your boat.

[soul]

...and why don't you go cook some rice with that bowl thats mounted to your dash. But if you want to think "4200 deaths is actually pretty good", then do whatever floats your boat.

exactly

[95alty]

sounds good brotha just hit me up you know how to get a hold of me. I'm home on the weekends so any weekend(thursday-sunday) is good for me.

most def... pm me your number

[ahmonrah]

ugh.. this is making me sick readin all this but hell here's my opinion. First off to all who blame bush.. How many of you VOTED last election? Really? Second i have two cousins and at least 5 close friends who have been over there twice, one taking six bullets in the chest and surviving and one so far into spec ops we havent heard from him in months and they all agree that this war wasnt what they were expecting. anybody believing it was going to take less than a year on a country like that was a damn fool. It isnt that simple anymore like it was in '91. Totally diffrent situation. My belief is this: we were wrong going there period i was all for afghanistan that was cleaning up a mess we made (Taliban was our fault along with Osama). But Iraq. 6 years and money wasted and **** like that along with lives I understand the sacrifices our military makes and the brave souls who sign up for the military take. Hell i woulda been there if not for the fact that i have a bad heart murmur. My point is this quit putting things on troops and start throwing it on the guy we elect (or failed to elect) and quit bitching about 8 years of our economy and education going to the ****ter. Because half of my graduating class got left behind and its only getting worse. We cant fix another country without fixing ourselves first. we still look hypocritical for doing that. Also not dissin the Iraqi's or any other country in their position but really name one point in history that hasnt rebelled against their government if they were that bad. France, Russia, China, Hell even our own damn country couldnt stand england and fought back. IF these guys can take out 4,000+ troops in 6 years Where the hell were these guys on their own damn government. I dont wanna hear any oh they couldnt fight back. bull**** they coulda and didnt. you can only take but so damn much. If you look in history long enough it makes sense. WE WERE THERE FOR NO DAMN REASON. No WMD has been found that i know of. Saddam was probably too busy getting gold tp while his crazy ass sons raped half the country to get **** for a nuke. And even if al durka durka was ****ing there surgical strikes aside we are spreading our soldiers too damn thin. Point is you got two choices vote this year or pray McCain's lil 100 years of being over there is worth more american lives. If you can live with that then hell I can't argue with you but honestly man I want my cousins home for our reunion this year instead of talkin to them over a satellite phone and email.

~removes glasses, pokes eyes with a needle, wipes away bloody tears~ DUDE, i'm sorry i could'nt read any of that.

[ahmonrah]

ok cool... im in the west end... and definately some time soon we can sit down and discuss

count me in....

[BanginJimmy]

How the fck can you call someone who went over there and served to defend your ass (regardless of the reasons) a 'whiney whore'? *******.

you knew a lot of marines huh? i hope they whoop your little ***** ass for making a comment like that. learn some respect. dipshyt.

1. I was over in asscrackistan and delt with ALOT of those little whiney whores. All we heard was how they didnt sign up for this, how they only wanted the money for school blah, blah, blah. The one who posted about that lady doesnt know her for anything and I can say that odds are better than 50/50 that I am right.

2. Yea I knew alot of Marines. Including 2 who I worked with on a daily basis for 6 months. They were attached to HMH-361 in Jan 02 when their CH53 was shot down with an RPG less than 20 miles from Bagram Airbase.

I also knew the laodmaster on a c-130 that had engine trouble while overloaded flying ammo and other combat supplies into bagram right after it was taken. The plane crashed on landingand killed everyone but the co-pilot. You can find the memorials to them in camp teufelhunden on Bagram Airbase. Its right by the pool in front of the TOC.



I also am very much for freedom of speech. This is why I said nothing to the poster, only mentioned that she was likely a whiney whore. I am also going to take advantage of my freedom of speech. I think I earned that in my 10+ years in uniform.

[mad3nch1na]

wow, I'm amazed that you quoted **** Cheney like he has nothing to gain from this occupancy.

Vietnam and Korea had clear objectives, one of which failed and we ended up pulling out anyway (like we will in Iraq, sorry to dissapoint those who feel like their time served makes them experts on foreign policy) Our occupation in Iraq doesn't have an objective.. when things are good people say "It's working we need to stay!" when things are bad its "They need us, we need to stay!" Kind of redundant really..

4200 is a lot when you consider diplomacy would put that number at ZERO.
All George W. had to do was take a page from his father's book.. it's called multilateralism and it cost the U.S about 6 months and 300 soldiers in Desert Storm.

Korea and Vietnam had "clear" objectives?
Some one needs to take some time and learn history.

[BanginJimmy]

Korea had clear objectives and minimal political interference.

Viet-nam and now Iraq have no clear objectives and ungodly amounts of political interference. If the military was allowed to remove the white gloves and fight this like we know how to then we wouldnt have nearly as many problems.

Hearts and minds dont work to start with. Then add religion, uneducated zealots and interference from our other enemies in the region its simply a disaster.

My plan for ending the occupation is simple.

put 300k more troops in country along the borders. Added to this remove most of our combat troops from the cities, only leaving enough for protection for the troops and civilians who are working on infrastructure to do their job in relative safety. Seal off the country from outside fighters and supplies and watch the insurgency slowly disappear. Keep this up for 2-3 years while a legitimate govt of the people takes hold. Also in that time a respectable military and police force will have been able to take root. By the end of the 3 years Iraq will be self sufficient.

[tony]

Korea and Vietnam had "clear" objectives?
Some one needs to take some time and learn history.

Korean War - A clash between borders and an opposition to the North Korean Military.. pretty straight forward and clear objective... Peace within the region.

Vietnam War - Same basis. Communist Republic of Vietnam vs the Republic of Vietnam that the U.S supported. Objective: Instill democracy and our Foreign Policy (funny, sounds familiar.. and it failed)

Iraq - Well, till we finish the "war on terrorism" which is like saying we're going to irradicate world hunger.. there is no reason to pull out.

I'm well aware of our history, no need to question my knowledge on that subject.

[mad3nch1na]

The Korean war's objective are not as clear as you state, because if it were the Korean war would have ended. Though technically we are at a cease fire, there are still US troops protecting the DMZ and the conflict is still considered as "on going".

Both wars were waged due to red scare, but they were never really a threat to us. And Vietnam could have been totally avoided, given that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was staged.

[Spektrewing386]

if north korea took over south korea in the 50s..... we would not have many of our beloved electronics and other items

[Sledlude]

theres always china.

[soul]

theres always china.

bout to say, 99% of the time it say made in china, i dont remember last time i saw "made in Korea" or something to that extent

[Tank]

I wish more people would listen to what tony says, as one of the many soldiers that has visited the desert sand more then id like to admit. I can say i wish we.........

1. never invaded

2. Pulled the hell out

3. get back to fixing our economy

thats all i wanted to say on that.......

[BanginJimmy]

I wasnt a proponant of the war, but its beyond that point now. Leaving before that country is self sustainable will be worse for us in the long run.

Our economy is down a bit, but not all that bad. The only sector really being hurt is the housing market. There is a trickle down effect into the financials, but its not nearly as bad as some would like you to think.

[0p7!mu5]

we shoulda let them duke it out amongst themselves. I tried to say earlier (and royally ****ed up in me being pissed) is that 9/10 time in history that i know of people rebelled against their government if the people were being seriously repressed look at Tibet,Ireland,France and even the US. We got sick of someone's **** and fought back. if these bastards can take out 4000+ of us they can handle themselves. They dont have WMD obviously, Saddam is gone, and we're losing support from much of the world. What I don't get (all U.S involvement) aside is why the hell Iraq cant get their **** together and form a government so we can bring our people home? They don't seem to be making an effort worth half a damn. Sure the violence has gone down a lil since the "surge" but honestly no matter when we leave if they don't get a working government together then **** is still going to hit the fan the moment we leave anyway. We're just delaying the inevitable. just my opinion sorry for the rambling earlier..

[tony]

I wasnt a proponant of the war, but its beyond that point now. Leaving before that country is self sustainable will be worse for us in the long run.

So.. we'll be right where we were before we attacked. Damn then what good was the invasion? Let them figure it out, they're smart people. I mean, they are intelligent enough to produce nuclear weapons but cannot form a functional government?

Our economy is down a bit, but not all that bad. The only sector really being hurt is the housing market. There is a trickle down effect into the financials, but its not nearly as bad as some would like you to think.

Value of the dollar is tanking, we borrow from China to fund a war in Iraq.. 2 or 3 airlines grounded their fleet last week, gas is at an all time high even when you factor inflation.. and three months of job losses.

The first step to any recovery is recognition that there is a problem. A drug addict doesn't seek help if they do not acknowledge that they have a problem in the first place. No recession was overcome without accepting that the economy is not in a good position so this idea that "everything is fine and dandy" only stagnates the process of recovery. Accept it, Economy is bad.. there is plenty of potential if people let things take its course but continuing the habits that put us here prolongs the inevitable.

[Kaiser]

If Iraq was some 3rd world country and not one of the largest Oil Producers in the world I would be impressed.

We claim that Iraq had technology to build Nuclear weapons but would like to believe they could not send their children to school?

I was installing lines for a soldier who just came back and I asked her if the media reports accurately about Iraq, verbatim she said to me "No, its worse." I hardly think Iraq was in great despair before we invaded.

I don't quite see how reality could be worse than reporting. The only thing CNN doesn't cover is when there's armed robbery in Iraq, and I'm pretty sure here soon they'll start covering that as well. Just two days ago I was sleepless and watching CNN and they had a story about an Iraqi guy killing someone else over unpaid money. I don't understand when that makes the LOCAL news where it happens, let alone making international news.

Besides that, 10 years ago Iraq was near the bottom of the barrel when it came to most of these things. Income disparity was incredible. Now that America cleanly knocked off or ran out a good chunk of the upper class, the middle class has a chance to take over. Don't think Iraq was some bastion of civilization. They were stuck in the 1950's for all intents, except in the most rich neighborhoods. Some of their neighbors (the Kingdom) are STILL stuck in 1950's.

[tony]

I don't quite see how reality could be worse than reporting. The only thing CNN doesn't cover is when there's armed robbery in Iraq, and I'm pretty sure here soon they'll start covering that as well. Just two days ago I was sleepless and watching CNN and they had a story about an Iraqi guy killing someone else over unpaid money. I don't understand when that makes the LOCAL news where it happens, let alone making international news.

Besides that, 10 years ago Iraq was near the bottom of the barrel when it came to most of these things. Income disparity was incredible. Now that America cleanly knocked off or ran out a good chunk of the upper class, the middle class has a chance to take over. Don't think Iraq was some bastion of civilization. They were stuck in the 1950's for all intents, except in the most rich neighborhoods. Some of their neighbors (the Kingdom) are STILL stuck in 1950's.

If Iraq's economy suffered it was due to Economic sanctions after Desert Storm, kind of hard to grow when nobody will trade with you.. and that was the fault of Saddam. Nonetheless their economy slowly rebuilt itself and as I said before Hussein decided to switch Iraq's oil reserves to Euro's in the late 90's as the U.N authorized Iraq to begin trade again. Trust me.. their economy was so much better than it is now, we've done them no favors in that respect.

On the press.. let's see here. If 10 Soldiers were killed here in Atlanta this week but a school opened up which one do you think the media is going to run with? Probably the one that garners the most ratings.. which is going to be about the soldiers not the school, positive press doesn't sell.

It's the same reason why if I start a thread about something positive on this forum it will get a few views and no replies, but drama will have 20 pages of content. Do your part and turn the Tv off, write the producer about your feelings on what they put out there and if enough people do this you will see results.

[Kaiser]

If Iraq's economy suffered it was due to Economic sanctions after Desert Storm, kind of hard to grow when nobody will trade with you.. and that was the fault of Saddam. Nonetheless their economy slowly rebuilt itself and as I said before Hussein decided to switch Iraq's oil reserves to Euro's in the late 90's as the U.N authorized Iraq to begin trade again. Trust me.. their economy was so much better than it is now, we've done them no favors in that respect.

On the press.. let's see here. If 10 Soldiers were killed here in Atlanta this week but a school opened up which one do you think the media is going to run with? Probably the one that garners the most ratings.. which is going to be about the soldiers not the school, positive press doesn't sell.

It's the same reason why if I start a thread about something positive on this forum it will get a few views and no replies, but drama will have 20 pages of content. Do your part and turn the Tv off, write the producer about your feelings on what they put out there and if enough people do this you will see results.

I actually did turn the TV off at that point, because it made me realize what a waste of time it was. Lately my TV only gets turned on to watch a movie, or run a console.

As to your point about the media: I don't disagree. I don't expect them to portray anything in a positive light because it doesn't attract the kind of attention and response that negativity does. However, I was pointing out that they are sinking to what seems to me to be a new low by reporting what's sadly a common fact of life around the world as news on a major international news network.

And as to their economy: I dunno if you'd noticed, but there are very few economies in the world right now who can brag about having massive growth over the past 24 months, and not many more who can say they're still experiencing a positive trending in growth. Overall the world's economy is experiencing, at the least, a correction due in part at least to overinvestment in subprime mortgages. Betting on bad loans cost lots of people large sums of money they are now seeking to liquidate assets to cover. Iraq is no different there, since currently their economy is being funded by the steadily sinking USD, they're not exactly floating in cash right now. However the future looks sunny for them, since they primarily sell oil to nations to transact in EUD's rather than USD's. Their own weak currency combined with an export to a strong currency is what fueled European and Japanese growth through most of the last quarter century. While Iraq's economy had been recovering before, it still had an intense income disparity as a result of the political system in place there. Instead of looking like Saudi Arabia, Iraq has a chance to look more like some of it's more economically modern neighbors.

[0p7!mu5]

I actually did turn the TV off at that point, because it made me realize what a waste of time it was. Lately my TV only gets turned on to watch a movie, or run a console.

As to your point about the media: I don't disagree. I don't expect them to portray anything in a positive light because it doesn't attract the kind of attention and response that negativity does. However, I was pointing out that they are sinking to what seems to me to be a new low by reporting what's sadly a common fact of life around the world as news on a major international news network.

And as to their economy: I dunno if you'd noticed, but there are very few economies in the world right now who can brag about having massive growth over the past 24 months, and not many more who can say they're still experiencing a positive trending in growth. Overall the world's economy is experiencing, at the least, a correction due in part at least to overinvestment in subprime mortgages. Betting on bad loans cost lots of people large sums of money they are now seeking to liquidate assets to cover. Iraq is no different there, since currently their economy is being funded by the steadily sinking USD, they're not exactly floating in cash right now. However the future looks sunny for them, since they primarily sell oil to nations to transact in EUD's rather than USD's. Their own weak currency combined with an export to a strong currency is what fueled European and Japanese growth through most of the last quarter century. While Iraq's economy had been recovering before, it still had an intense income disparity as a result of the political system in place there. Instead of looking like Saudi Arabia, Iraq has a chance to look more like some of it's more economically modern neighbors.

If they can stop bombing each other and get a government together first until then we just helped them go back another 50 years or so and they way its looking im betting a civil war is going to break out.

[tony]

And as to their economy: I dunno if you'd noticed, but there are very few economies in the world right now who can brag about having massive growth over the past 24 months, and not many more who can say they're still experiencing a positive trending in growth. Overall the world's economy is experiencing, at the least, a correction due in part at least to overinvestment in subprime mortgages.

Brazil, Denmark (Both of which produce their own energy, Denmark is a welfare state too for those who don't believe in such a thing) Dubai, India, China, Vietnam has seen continuous growth in their economy. As I said before there is a ton of potential here in the U.S to turn things around in a legitimate way..

I don't have a crystal ball but if I was going to guess as to why Iraq's growth stunted early in this decade before the war it was due to low oil prices. (When we thought $1.20 a gallon was high) With oil prices as they are now and the solid Euro.. I'll go ahead and say that Iraq would be in a good position economically right now. Again.. this is just one hippie's opinion and not the gospel.

[BanginJimmy]

[QUOTE=tony]Brazil, Denmark (Both of which produce their own energy, Denmark is a welfare state too for those who don't believe in such a thing) Dubai, India, China, Vietnam has seen continuous growth in their economy. As I said before there is a ton of potential here in the U.S to turn things around in a legitimate way.. [\quote]

you need to compare apples to apples. The average 16y/o working at McD's makes more an hour than the average worker in all of those countries combined. Not to mention that 2 of the 4 are communist countries.

India's caste system is so entrenched that being born into a lower class family means you will not goto school, and you will live your life in the lower class. NOTHING you do with your life will change that.

[tony]

[QUOTE=BanginJimmy]

Brazil, Denmark (Both of which produce their own energy, Denmark is a welfare state too for those who don't believe in such a thing) Dubai, India, China, Vietnam has seen continuous growth in their economy. As I said before there is a ton of potential here in the U.S to turn things around in a legitimate way.. [\quote]

you need to compare apples to apples. The average 16y/o working at McD's makes more an hour than the average worker in all of those countries combined. Not to mention that 2 of the 4 are communist countries.

India's caste system is so entrenched that being born into a lower class family means you will not goto school, and you will live your life in the lower class. NOTHING you do with your life will change that.

You're right, apples to apples would be comparing countries that are as technologically advanced as the U.S.. none of those I listed with maybe the exception of China compares on that level.. which makes their accomplishments that much more admirable.

[95alty]

..... im enjoying all this... no oppositions here...

[BanginJimmy]

You're right, apples to apples would be comparing countries that are as technologically advanced as the U.S.. none of those I listed with maybe the exception of China compares on that level.. which makes their accomplishments that much more admirable.

all of those countries, including China, make low quality mass produced goods. With the minimal wages they pay it is possible for companies dump large portions of their capital into expansion, and in the case of Viet-nam and China back into their social progams.

If any country in the world stopped trading with the US today our enconomy would fall flat, but recover in within a couple of years. If just he US stopped trading with China their entire economy would collapse within months. You just cannot compare a free market economy to that of one of a communist country.