Yea we can't leave iraq, because it more of a threat to the U.S and our interest than it ever was under Saddam rule.
Yea we can't leave iraq, because it more of a threat to the U.S and our interest than it ever was under Saddam rule.
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
Originally Posted by Reaper
of course we can't leave.. it will be civil war between all the different tribes if we leave..
thats not a bias source..
can't use bias sources..
the fact is, war in Iraq is not going well.. we know it, the world knows it.. now why try to make something that is harming our country look positive?
its not because of pity things, or news of protest with burning flags! we get those same acts on our soil all the time!!!!!!
Last edited by Frög; 04-04-2008 at 04:31 PM.
Your first mistake is that you see this entire issue as Partisan and not International Policy. People who cannot take responsibility for their actions almost immediately point the finger, you prove this point very well. This isn't a democrat or "liberal" issue.. I myself voted for Bush twice and can say I was wrong. You "conservatives" like to praise Reagan so much but Reagan believed in working across party lines.. this conflicts with the reasoning behind this statement. O yeah.. he believed in Diplomacy instead of war as well.
Reaper- that's really awesome that you got your cousin to read this. That really speaks volumes for him that he'd come over and leave that. I'm really impressed.
My original point was just that- it's all opinion and every source "spins" stuff. I'd much rather listen to the opinion of a soldier that's been there and experienced it, then any talking head, on any channel, on any side of the fence.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have spirited debates about stuff, because that's how change happens, but most of the time it's just noise, it's not actually discussion.
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good post man
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
ugh.. this is making me sick readin all this but hell here's my opinion. First off to all who blame bush.. How many of you VOTED last election? Really? Second i have two cousins and at least 5 close friends who have been over there twice, one taking six bullets in the chest and surviving and one so far into spec ops we havent heard from him in months and they all agree that this war wasnt what they were expecting. anybody believing it was going to take less than a year on a country like that was a damn fool. It isnt that simple anymore like it was in '91. Totally diffrent situation. My belief is this: we were wrong going there period i was all for afghanistan that was cleaning up a mess we made (Taliban was our fault along with Osama). But Iraq. 6 years and money wasted and **** like that along with lives I understand the sacrifices our military makes and the brave souls who sign up for the military take. Hell i woulda been there if not for the fact that i have a bad heart murmur. My point is this quit putting things on troops and start throwing it on the guy we elect (or failed to elect) and quit bitching about 8 years of our economy and education going to the ****ter. Because half of my graduating class got left behind and its only getting worse. We cant fix another country without fixing ourselves first. we still look hypocritical for doing that. Also not dissin the Iraqi's or any other country in their position but really name one point in history that hasnt rebelled against their government if they were that bad. France, Russia, China, Hell even our own damn country couldnt stand england and fought back. IF these guys can take out 4,000+ troops in 6 years Where the hell were these guys on their own damn government. I dont wanna hear any oh they couldnt fight back. bull**** they coulda and didnt. you can only take but so damn much. If you look in history long enough it makes sense. WE WERE THERE FOR NO DAMN REASON. No WMD has been found that i know of. Saddam was probably too busy getting gold tp while his crazy ass sons raped half the country to get **** for a nuke. And even if al durka durka was ****ing there surgical strikes aside we are spreading our soldiers too damn thin. Point is you got two choices vote this year or pray McCain's lil 100 years of being over there is worth more american lives. If you can live with that then hell I can't argue with you but honestly man I want my cousins home for our reunion this year instead of talkin to them over a satellite phone and email.
Very true...but going off a family members experience still shouldnt be your judgement... go get you some action and make your own assumptions
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would if i could but cant im not basing it entirely off of them but it is a pretty sensitive subject. i understand helping other countries but man damn. im not sayin speedy withdrawl or anything because that would leave a major pwoer vaccum. but i do believe we gotta go and strike elsewhere.
LOL. Your post is the most jumbled and rambled post I have read in this thread thus far.
I do find it funny that it seems that you are the type of person who believes everything they see on the news. Doo some research on McCain's 100 years in Iraq comment and you'll see what was actually said.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
~removes glasses, pokes eyes with a needle, wipes away bloody tears~ DUDE, i'm sorry i could'nt read any of that.
saving lazy peoples asses? thats bs. I am far from lazy, I work hard, and I JUST got health insurance, mainly because it was required by school and I got in on the cheap thru them. If something would have happened to me, I woulda been FVCKED. Hospital bills are no joke. So before you assume every uninsured person is just a crack head on welfare, think again. Most of the people that struggle with rising healthcare costs are middle class, hard working people that fall through the cracks in the system.
A universal healthcare system would not be so bad... take a look at the system in the UK. Sure its not perfect, but we could take their platform and improve on it. The reason it will probably never happen is because with this kind of system, physicians tend to medicate you less (ie, they dont prescribe you a shyt-ton of pills that you could probably do without). Big pharm firms (ie eli lilly, astro zeneca, glaxo, etc) don't want that- they love charging you crazy money for something that doesnt work (ie. vytorin). With our current system, people get left behind while insurance executives and big pharmaceutical firms line their pockets.
I don't think the government should come between patient and doctor, but i do think something needs to be done to put pharmaceutical companies in check. they r the devil.
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i live my life one license suspension at a time-- and for that 6 months or more, i still drive.
"It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas." -George W. Bush
I laugh when ppl say lazy ass ppl need universal health care. There are so many ppl that just have inadequate insurance, where they still can not afford health care. Than there are the Americans that work hard for ever dollar they get and don't have health care because of the cost.
A Month ago 60 minute did a show entirely on a charity that use to go around the world to provide free Health screening, medical operations and Dental work to the uninsured/ppl with inadequate insurance. And the thing that caught my eye is that the organization has stepped up its present in U.S.. All the ppl that was getting help was mainly working middle class white ppl and I wish more Americans (especially the supposedly Christian base right) would be more willing to spend money saving/helping American lives than spending money on this war and other bad investments this country makes
2006 Evo IX - Bolt ons
I have to agree that 4,200 is "good" for a "war". Considering we are no longer fighting an "army" we are not really at "war". We are occupying Iraq. We have gone to war with Iraq before, but there was a REASON we did not occupy it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I as **** Cheny explains. The "war" ended when Saddam's army was defeated and Baghdad was taken. Most of the deaths occured after the "war". And 4,200 is a small number considering how long we have been there, just compare it with recent military engagements likes Vietnam or Korea.
I agree with you but the problem is that people see any loss of life as a bad thing which it is but in addition to that I believe that the country has gone soft and takes too much of what the media puts out to heart. I think that maybe if people had definitive answers to their questions people would be less against the war there but who knows.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
wow, I'm amazed that you quoted **** Cheney like he has nothing to gain from this occupancy.
Vietnam and Korea had clear objectives, one of which failed and we ended up pulling out anyway (like we will in Iraq, sorry to dissapoint those who feel like their time served makes them experts on foreign policy) Our occupation in Iraq doesn't have an objective.. when things are good people say "It's working we need to stay!" when things are bad its "They need us, we need to stay!" Kind of redundant really..
4200 is a lot when you consider diplomacy would put that number at ZERO.
All George W. had to do was take a page from his father's book.. it's called multilateralism and it cost the U.S about 6 months and 300 soldiers in Desert Storm.
Korea and Vietnam had "clear" objectives?
Some one needs to take some time and learn history.
Korean War - A clash between borders and an opposition to the North Korean Military.. pretty straight forward and clear objective... Peace within the region.
Vietnam War - Same basis. Communist Republic of Vietnam vs the Republic of Vietnam that the U.S supported. Objective: Instill democracy and our Foreign Policy (funny, sounds familiar.. and it failed)
Iraq - Well, till we finish the "war on terrorism" which is like saying we're going to irradicate world hunger.. there is no reason to pull out.
I'm well aware of our history, no need to question my knowledge on that subject.
Yep, in todays America, it baffles me how people like Al Gonzoles with his "I do not recall" and Mukaseyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt8v_GAgOK4 "gets away" with it all.
So many hippys on IA....But im a military servicemember, I may be biased.
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you can post all the pictures of deaths you want, but in the end it comes down to the fact that invading iraq on our own terms is FAR better than waiting for Sadaam to strike first. I wish we would start in on Iran soon as get them out of the way too. Iran is one of the biggest reasons this occupation is taking the path it is.
Dont call it a war, its not, that part has been over with since the fall of organized resistance. It is an occupation and the US military was not trained or equipped to fight that type of war. Its getting better, but if you ask the media, we are losing, and thats far from the case.
Oh and that lady that said its worse than the media says is just a whiney little whore. I knew alot of Marines from 2/5 who were in Ramadi, Masul, baghdad and falluja and according to them the media made it sound far worse than it was.
1 example, the "daily shelling" usually consisted of a single mortor or RPG that hit short or long of the base. 1 in 10 actually hit anything more important than an empty piece of desert.
When was Sadam going to strike us? Was it when he began to switch oil reserves to Euro's? He didnt have to attack us.. we depend on THEM for their resources that we pay $3.20 a gallon for now, fiscally Iraq could have run us into the ground and that was the plan until the invasion.. Was it 9/11? No.. those were Saudi's, not Iraqi's.. damn, I'm sorry I don't see the imminent threat that justifies 4000 lives.
As far as the "whore" goes, honestly I cannot give you what she told me verbatim but the gist of it was that where they were eating was hit by a mortar round and one of the female soldiers with her died.. I think she deserves a bit more than to be labeled a whore. Just goes to show that again, some people don't seem to grasp the situation as it is.
Casualties of war I have no problems with, but war is to be a last resort and to anyone who thinks logically, if there is not a direct threat then obviously there are other alternatives.
I know that I am not going to change anyones mind here but the proof is around us every single day. Our government invests a lot more into the infrastructure of Iraq than it does here. Why is it so important to build up Iraq when residents of New Orleans are being placed in trailers with formaldehyde? Think just for a second, $400 Billion into a mission that has no clear objective.. it's not okay to use taxpayer money to provide healthcare here but perfectly fine to spend BILLIONS on another country. Those muslims are sooo evil but you're so anxious to rebuild the entire country for them. Interesting.
Iran, the same Iran that aided the U.S in Afghanistan going after Bin Laden. (Neither Iraq or Iran has ANY relationship to Al Qaeda) Or the same Iran that offered 20 Million Barrels of crude oil for Katrina? hmm.. it can't possibly be the Iran that just aided the Iraqi government in recent attacks. But yet diplomacy doesn't work.. it sure seems like they want to sit down and talk things out, then again I'm just a hippie with an opinion.
There are peaceful ways to resolve conflict without bloodshed. Again, war is to be a last resort, the U.S is losing its status as a Superpower due to our foreign policy.
How the fck can you call someone who went over there and served to defend your ass (regardless of the reasons) a 'whiney whore'? *******.
you knew a lot of marines huh? i hope they whoop your little ***** ass for making a comment like that. learn some respect. dipshyt.
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i live my life one license suspension at a time-- and for that 6 months or more, i still drive.
"It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas." -George W. Bush
HOLD ON SLEDLUDE... before you bash jimmy... this DEVILDOG is a vet... HE IS A MARINE... so learn your facts... AND HAS BEEN OVER TO THEATER... so make sure when you post comments like ^ you make sure u remember there are people who have seen action... not just news feeds
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just beat me to it, typed a whole post good thing i hit preview before.
Its just a bodykit
What makes his opinion any less than Jimmy's? What cause he didn't serve? So if I join the army I have the right to call someone who put their life on the line a whore? C'mon now, active duty doesn't give you the golden key to say whatever the hell you want. its honorable to serve but everyone plays a role.. even civilians, respect needs to be given on both ends.
I also forgot, the current administration thinks so highly of the sacrifice given that they would like to take veteran benefits away, the same administration that a lot of you are defending.
1. I was over in asscrackistan and delt with ALOT of those little whiney whores. All we heard was how they didnt sign up for this, how they only wanted the money for school blah, blah, blah. The one who posted about that lady doesnt know her for anything and I can say that odds are better than 50/50 that I am right.
2. Yea I knew alot of Marines. Including 2 who I worked with on a daily basis for 6 months. They were attached to HMH-361 in Jan 02 when their CH53 was shot down with an RPG less than 20 miles from Bagram Airbase.
I also knew the laodmaster on a c-130 that had engine trouble while overloaded flying ammo and other combat supplies into bagram right after it was taken. The plane crashed on landingand killed everyone but the co-pilot. You can find the memorials to them in camp teufelhunden on Bagram Airbase. Its right by the pool in front of the TOC.
I also am very much for freedom of speech. This is why I said nothing to the poster, only mentioned that she was likely a whiney whore. I am also going to take advantage of my freedom of speech. I think I earned that in my 10+ years in uniform.
I am not going to hold this as the ultimate truth, and I am in no way basing any of my worldly conclusion on this movie. But it does have a few eye openers, with sources and references to back it up.
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
What I found most interesting were the two SAS troops captured by Iraqi police, dressed at Iraqis shooting at Iraqi civilians.
I believe the same thing I believed right after 9/11, there is going to be a war in Iraq, (YES I said this word for word just weeks after 9/11) its going to be regarded as the another Vietnam, and its sole purposes is to be a sustained war with minimal Coalition Causalities.
Iraq was conquered in 2002. The rest is purely elitist/Illuminati economic profit turning.
This is world we live in. This is what we as an intelligent and sentient race have accomplished.
that zeitgeist movie does have alot of valid and truth in it. its kind of hard to believe it. But it makes u think alot.
TONY... pm me man we have to do lunch... my treat... beer or something.. you and red gt... i agree with everything you said... and 4200 should be 0... its sad when you have come in contact with 200 out of the 4200 dead... sucks...
Listen to this... one of my sergeants buddies is on his way back to al asad or however you spell it... from a convoy... his last before he hops the plane to kuwait and gets ready from post deployment... walking to chow at 0600 and hears a noise..... BOOM.... a random rocket hits him directly in the chest and explodes on impact... he had 1 more day in theater... it hurts man... really does to know my people out there getting killed, captured, beheaded, wounded, de-limbed, for stupid reasons... no matter what branch we are still brothers in arms
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Dialog definitely educates.. in comparison to my siblings my knowledge of everything that goes on is nothing. I basically learn through arguing with them and then doing research. But the thing is you have to come to the table with an open mind rather than be stubborn on your position.
And I'm definitely down to meet up some time, I'm on the southside (as is RedGT) so let me know.
Stupid reasons indeed.
sounds good brotha just hit me up you know how to get a hold of me. I'm home on the weekends so any weekend(thursday-sunday) is good for me.
Epic Foxbody Thread Crew Member #10
most def... pm me your number
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tony again.
good god, someone gets it.
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i live my life one license suspension at a time-- and for that 6 months or more, i still drive.
"It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas." -George W. Bush
ok cool... im in the west end... and definately some time soon we can sit down and discuss
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count me in....
i concede. i still think thats a fvcked up thing to say tho!
all the ppl i know that went over there are either dead or came back batshyt crazy. the love of my life is in the military. it really makes me mad when ppl say things like that. if you served, then why would you say that about some one else who did? wrong imo.
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i live my life one license suspension at a time-- and for that 6 months or more, i still drive.
"It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas." -George W. Bush
its cool though... but some people have earned the right to say things like that... as fuked up as it may be... he earned it
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that is true... but there are males and females over there who whine... and we treat them as such. Civilians do there thing over there also... but someone made it that way so they could get in the area to do what they have to do. I look out for my devil dogs... jimmy is one... if you join the army then your entitled to no opinion on anyone (military inside joke)
But all i know is when i get out... vet benenfits better be there... or im going in the whitehouse with the same mind set we went into iraq with... only thinking "wheres my money bishes"
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