Pro life vs War vs Death Penalty

[1000cckiller]

I got this topic from watching some show, but I did see truth in it. So I just want some opinions from everyone. also if you could speak on how you feel, about all it would be nice.

So as I said I was watching this show, and the person who was hosting asked: Why is it the people who are pro life are for war and the death penalty?

He also went on to say would the later two interfere with the first.( so for you who dont understand). Pro life you are trying to save a live, so why would you be for war and the death penalty? Which by a poll that was taking, I am sorry I cant remember where. 58% of pro life activist said they are for war and the death penalty, and 42% said they arent.

[quickdodge®]

These topics really should be in the WALLSTREET/NEWS section for a better discussion. Later, QD.

[Ran]

"To preserve the lives of the innocent, you must take the lives of the guilty."

The question at hand seems to be pretty stupid in terms of relativity anyway. "Pro-Life" is a stance for unborn children and against abortion. In their eyes, the unborn child has done nothing wrong to deserve to be aborted. Convicts and the such, however, have done something wrong and may have forfitted(sp?) their right to live. They're two completely different subjects and whomever it was that tried to intertwine the two is a bit misguided to say the least.

[1000cckiller]

These topics really should be in the WALLSTREET/NEWS section for a better discussion. Later, QD.

Mike you know those sections are always slow. Plus by it being here you know, we can see how smart and stupid some people are.

[quickdodge®]

Mike you know those sections are always slow. Plus by it being here you know, we can see how smart and stupid some people are.

With the right topics, that section is very nice. And that section weeds out the smart and stupid. Only the smart goes in that section because only they know how to respond to the topics with any form of intelligence. And this topic is a good one. Later, QD.

[1000cckiller]

"To preserve the lives of the innocent, you must take the lives of the guilty."

The question at hand seems to be pretty stupid in terms of relativity anyway. "Pro-Life" is a stance for unborn children and against abortion. In their eyes, the unborn child has done nothing wrong to deserve to be aborted. Convicts and the such, however, have done something wrong and may have forfitted(sp?) their right to live. They're two completely different subjects and whomever it was that tried to intertwine the two is a bit misguided to say the least.

Pro-Life is the self-description for those in North America and Great Britain who are of the general political opinion that abortion, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and other issues regarding the sanctity of life are morally wrong and should be illegal in most cases. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Life, its not just about da babies.

[1000cckiller]

With the right topics, that section is very nice. And that section weeds out the smart and stupid. Only the smart goes in that section because only they know how to respond to the topics with any form of intelligence. And this topic is a good one. Later, QD.

thank you, Mike

[Ran]

Pro-Life is the self-description for those in North America and Great Britain who are of the general political opinion that abortion, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and other issues regarding the sanctity of life are morally wrong and should be illegal in most cases. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Life, its not just about da babies.

Ah, sorry for the generalization then. From what I've seen, I just assumed that "Pro-Life" was pretty much just about babies. I didn't know that they cried about other issues as well.

I, for one, don't care if you abort a baby or not. Nor do I think that there is anything wrong with stem cell research or human cloning. Of course, I'm also all for the death penalty for those that deserve it and I believe that war does indeed solve a lot of problems.

So I guess I'm not part of the group mentioned in your first post. Carry on then.

[1000cckiller]

Ah, sorry for the generalization then. From what I've seen, I just assumed that "Pro-Life" was pretty much just about babies. I didn't know that they cried about other issues as well.

I, for one, don't care if you abort a baby or not. Nor do I think that there is anything wrong with stem cell research or human cloning. Of course, I'm also all for the death penalty for those that deserve it and I believe that war does indeed solve a lot of problems.

So I guess I'm not part of the group mentioned in your first post. Carry on then.

I will have to say I agree with you, I am not pro-life. i do agree with the death penalty.

[Jecht]

I am firm in my belief that the parents should be given the choice. I don't like the idea of unborn children dying without having a chance, but if it were to be born to parents who didn't want it or will regret having the child I think that the choice of abortion is a good one for the parents.

I don't like war, mainly because people are needlessly dying. Why can't we solve everything through something else rather than killing eachother?

Death penalty is another of those things I don't necessarily want, but the consequences of not having it are bad as well. If a murderer is only given a certain number of years and they are eventually allowed out again, what is going to stop them if the only consequence they face is sitting in a jail for a while?

[KPowerEP3]

I find it quite difficult to form a hard-lined opinion on any of the topics. The problem with all three is that there are variables; be them situational, factual or otherwise. You have to take into account that, regardless of what you think you know, there is always something more to a given situation than who/what ever is broadcasting it either can or will reveal. For clarity's sake, though, are we talking about war in general, or the specific middle east conflict that we're tied up in now?

[Ran]

I am firm in my belief that the parents should be given the choice. I don't like the idea of unborn children dying without having a chance, but if it were to be born to parents who didn't want it or will regret having the child I think that the choice of abortion is a good one for the parents.

Thus comes the idea of adoption, which is what most people try to push as an alternative.

I don't like war, mainly because people are needlessly dying. Why can't we solve everything through something else rather than killing eachother?

Because a lot of people don't listen to your pleads for peace. Did Hitler? I'm sure Bin Laden would love to come to a truce with the US and stop at terrorist activities. Whether people like it or not, war is sometimes the only real solution to save as many innocent lives as possible. Sure, innocent people will be killed in the process. Such is life, but you have to think of the greater good.

Death penalty is another of those things I don't necessarily want, but the consequences of not having it are bad as well. If a murderer is only given a certain number of years and they are eventually allowed out again, what is going to stop them if the only consequence they face is sitting in a jail for a while?

That's a good logic. Now apply it to your stance on war and you'll see a lot of similarities. Problems don't bother you if you just kill them off.

[1000cckiller]

I find it quite difficult to form a hard-lined opinion on any of the topics. The problem with all three is that there are variables; be them situational, factual or otherwise. You have to take into account that, regardless of what you think you know, there is always something more to a given situation than who/what ever is broadcasting it either can or will reveal. For clarity's sake, though, are we talking about war in general, or the specific middle east conflict that we're tied up in now?

no just war in general

[Jecht]

Thus comes the idea of adoption, which is what most people try to push as an alternative.

Because a lot of people don't listen to your pleads for peace. Did Hitler? I'm sure Bin Laden would love to come to a truce with the US and stop at terrorist activities. Whether people like it or not, war is sometimes the only real solution to save as many innocent lives as possible. Sure, innocent people will be killed in the process. Such is life, but you have to think of the greater good.

That's a good logic. Now apply it to your stance on war and you'll see a lot of similarities. Problems don't bother you if you just kill them off.

Well, for the war part, I'm going to quote myself from What_lag's other thread:

For example, when someone states that they have a gun and they express dislike for you, does that mean that they are necessarily going to shoot you? It all depends on an evaluation of whether the person would actually use it or if they are merely bragging.

Sadam said he had weapons, but does that necessarily mean that he was going to use them? Sorry, I'm the kind of person to sit in the back and sling out obnoxious statements merely to get the conversation moving rather than the type to take lead.

[SixSquared]

My take...

As a fetus/embryo, you don't have the decision to make. But no one forces you to walk in and enlist in the army, or commit a crime that will get you the death penalty.

Maybe?

I dunno... This is where my personal views "muddle"... Personally, I think a woman should be able to choose, and that it should be a personal and uninfluenced decision. I also support our troops, as anyone who is willing to give their life for me without even knowing me definitely gets a high mark in my book. But I hate the war and think that the politics behind it are just plain retarded. And it pisses me off that people don't understand that you can be patriotic and not agree with the government. I know a lot of people who despise the president and pretty much what our government has become, but do support the troops. You don't have to like them both... you can like one and not the other.

As far as death penalty goes... I'm ok with it. And honestly, I think the lethal injection is crap. This may sound a tid bit on the sadistic side, but I remember when I was a kid and I first learned about the electric chair and how it works and what it does, it scared the **** outta me. Sounded like a horrible, painful way to die. I've never been in a position of considering a violent crime or anything, but I'm sure that if I was and the electric chair was still a common practice, that would be enough to make me think twice about doing it. However, if I knew that I was gonna spend the rest of my life in jail, as boring as it would be, the "terrifying" factor isn't there. It's like "So let me get this straight.... I kill someone and get shipped off to somewhere that I have cable, three squares, and no 9-5 bull**** for the rest of my life?"

Sounds like a *reason* to do a crime to me...

[Ran]

As far as death penalty goes... I'm ok with it. And honestly, I think the lethal injection is crap. This may sound a tid bit on the sadistic side, but I remember when I was a kid and I first learned about the electric chair and how it works and what it does, it scared the **** outta me. Sounded like a horrible, painful way to die. I've never been in a position of considering a violent crime or anything, but I'm sure that if I was and the electric chair was still a common practice, that would be enough to make me think twice about doing it. However, if I knew that I was gonna spend the rest of my life in jail, as boring as it would be, the "terrifying" factor isn't there. It's like "So let me get this straight.... I kill someone and get shipped off to somewhere that I have cable, three squares, and no 9-5 bull**** for the rest of my life?"

Sounds like a *reason* to do a crime to me...

Reps if I can.

I agree and I actually think public executions are a good idea. If 10yr old Johnny sees Mad Max get blasted with 10,000 voltz then guess what? He probably won't do whatever it is that Max did because he'll know the consequences first hand. Sadistic or not, it gets the point across.

[tony]

As long as there are scarce resources there will be war, its inevitable.

I think people contradict theirselves on these subjects because they lack the ability to think on their own. They get their ideals from the media or things they hear to be true.. not know.

[1000cckiller]

troof

[KPowerEP3]

Tony's completely correct. Like I said in my 1st post, it's really hard to form a concrete opinion on any of these subjects, because there are so many additional factors that make each instance totally unique from the next.

I do not consider myself pro-life, but yet I don't feel that abortions should be something that is done for stupid reasons, either. On the abortion issue, I feel like there should be something similar to an application process, only with no governmental involvement. More or less, a doctor's "right to refuse service", like any other business has.

On the issue of war I, like most others, don't like the idea of mass killing and fighting, especially in the instances around the world of 'civil' wars and genocidal killings. Unfortunately, for a nation to survive in the world as we know it, war IS an evil necessity. You must conquer, control and defend to be powerful in today's global climate in social, political and economic realms.

I AM however totally against capital punishment for one simple reason. Today's justice system is so flawed that 2/3 of truly guilty people are either never caught, or acquitted. That leaves too much of a margin of error for someone who ISN'T deserving of a death sentence to receive one. Until there are major reforms in the U.S. judicial system, which we all know will never happen, I feel that capital punishment is far too extreme.

[man]

I say yes to abortions if they are early, yes to war if necessary, yes to death penalty (for multiple reasons)

[man]

I think people contradict theirselves on these subjects because they lack the ability to think on their own. They get their ideals from the media or things they hear to be true.. not know.

I don't think there can be a contradiction with these three subjects. They all deal with death, true, but they are all completely separate topics.

[The Ninja]

Ah, sorry for the generalization then. From what I've seen, I just assumed that "Pro-Life" was pretty much just about babies. I didn't know that they cried about other issues as well.

I, for one, don't care if you abort a baby or not. Nor do I think that there is anything wrong with stem cell research or human cloning. Of course, I'm also all for the death penalty for those that deserve it and I believe that war does indeed solve a lot of problems.

So I guess I'm not part of the group mentioned in your first post. Carry on then.

I'm with you all the way up to the war part. Sometimes its necessary, and other times completely uncalled for.