FUCK IRAQ

[Frög]

ya iraq is a shit hole

[Big J]

He would support and impose laws like the "Patriot Act", which deface common interpretation of the Constitution, but can fail to act affirmativatly enough to properly conduct a war he was hell bent on fighting in the first place, again lack of a well developed thought precess. Don't go to war, then turn around and trample on the constitution I swore to uphold when I joined the military, we are, despite our personal belifes and if only by defaul, on your team dumbass. All he had going for him when we went into Afganistan was the fact everyone was pissed off, and the Talban was in part or wholy responsible and there to accept our collective anger.

So here we are 6 years later debating a point that has changed, changed again, and has been so muttled with the passage of time, it's become more and more about Bush and American polotics.

[Big J]

The troops don't need insane amounts of money to continue fighting this war, what they need is the ability to effectivly wage war by having the ultra restrictive scrunity of the media removed, and the situation viewed from a war perspective and not a political one.

But again, that becomes less and less possible as the support declines. Why has support declined? It's not the fault of the people who are aganist the war and the leadership that are running it, it's a byproduct of the pretences under which the war was started and it only grew from there, from day one. So ultimatly it is the responsibility of the leadership who started it, for it's failure, end of story. I didn't start it, you didn't start it, and support is irrelevant, blame can only easily be placed upon the leadership, it's easier than admiting ones own fault. The fact that despite the clear facts and the speculation and implications that secrecy breeds how could anyone feel diffrently.

It's not about weapons anymore, although at one time it was, it's not about liberation anymore, although one time it was, it's not about funding, it's not about "seeing it through", it's about failure. It's about owning up to failure and being willing to learn from it and taking responsibility for the results of your actions. When I loined the Army Clinton was in office, when I left Bush was in. When the election rolled around where was my absentee ballot? I didn't get one, and I couldn't leave to get one, one wasn't offered. So was I directly effected by the "unfairness" of the election, do I belive it occured? I would have to say yes. Would it have even mattered with all the "smudging" and "recounting" that was done? I don't know, but the fact that no independant investigation was conducted, no independant verification, and that even today no real changes came about because of it, I feel that EVERYONE was cheated, is still being cheated, and will continue to be cheated.

I would hope the passage of time will lend enough clarity or cloudiness to the situation to make it easier to judge the the line by which sides are devided, but knowing better, history is doomed to repeat itself.

But on a less pesimistic note, I should have my new turbo set up done soon. That's somthing, that irregaurdless of political belifes, everyone should be cool with (except if you're one of those douches that have a problem with modifications not being 50 or 49 state legal).

[preferredduck]

Its all about $$$, do some research on the bush family, the granddad sold oil to hitler. dick cheney owned haliburton. oil company, the also build military bases. that company got all the bids for iraq and nobody else was even considered and the govt takes the lowest bidder on everything else. oil oil oil oil oil oil oil. that and a terrorist tried to kill hes father back in the day.

[bigdare23]

Its all about $$$, do some research on the bush family, the granddad sold oil to hitler. dick cheney owned haliburton. oil company, the also build military bases. that company got all the bids for iraq and nobody else was even considered and the govt takes the lowest bidder on everything else. oil oil oil oil oil oil oil. that and a terrorist tried to kill hes father back in the day.

This man speaks the truth. Crazy thing about its, you arent supposed to be on a company's board (he's the owner) while serving office. There's something fishy about that. I have to give it for Bush Sr. tho, he's a smart ass man! Have your two sons run for governor of two of the largest states, then when the time is right, one run for presidency with the backing of the two largest states.

[Big J]

Have your two sons run for governor of two of the largest states, then when the time is right, one run for presidency with the backing of the two largest states.

That's unethical, especially if you look at which state election officials got promoted and by whom, after both elections.

[preferredduck]

btw my whole family is military and to risk peoples lives for money is fucking nuts. it would be different if we were not lied to by washington. look at what donald trump said about the war. makes perfect sense.

[Subuari]

sheep. FTL

["B"]

Troop Withdrawal Wins House Passage
Republicans Unite In Opposition

POSTED: 3:17 am EDT March 23, 2007
UPDATED: 1:41 pm EDT March 23, 2007

WASHINGTON -- After rancorous debate, the U.S. House has approved legislation challenging President George W. Bush to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq by fall 2008.

Related: Live Coverage (1:45 p.m. EDT) | Interactive | Survey




The vote was 218-212, mostly along party lines.

The war-funding measure is a victory for Democrats and Congress' boldest challenge yet to the administration's war strategy.

Democrats said it was time to heed the mandate of their election sweep last November, which gave them control of Congress.

"The American people have lost faith in the president's conduct of this war," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. "The American people see the reality of the war; the president does not."

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow called the House move "a wheel-spinning exercise." He said even if the bill passes, President George W. Bush will veto it and there's "zero chance" it will become law.

A Senate committee approved a $122 billion measure Thursday financing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also requiring Bush to pull combat troops out of Iraq.

That bill calls for the troops to be out by next spring, rather than the fall as required in the House bill.

Pulling troops out of Iraq would be the dumbest thing that they could do.

[Big J]

I disagree, leaving them there and continuing to limp wrist the war is the dumbest think they could do. But it's too late to push for a more agressive war at this point. Not more troops but a hard take NO shit stance a "war" should dictate. Kick the media out, lock down the borders, and start leaving bodies where weapons are found.

["B"]

I disagree, leaving them there and continuing to limp wrist the war is the dumbest think they could do. But it's too late to push for a more agressive war at this point. Not more troops but a hard take NO shit stance a "war" should dictate. Kick the media out, lock down the borders, and start leaving bodies where weapons are found.

I would have to agree with your last comment, but there is no way in hell we should just pull out of Iraq. Having the Iranians dominate Iraq would spell disaster for the West.

[Big J]

It's a catch 22, they can't stay use the same stratigity. But they can't turn it up because it's too little too late, not because the insurgents are winning, but because there is not enough support for the war anymore. Again that all comes back to the President and the senior officials who led and hindered the effort.

We can stay but if we stay with the same plan it won't matter because Iran will think we're pussies and we'll prove it.