Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.
Today's topic:
Gun registries are not a bad thing.
Use established evidence and a compelling argument persuade me to change my view. You can use any sources you want. They will all be subject to scrutiny.
Today's topic:
Gun registries are not a bad thing.
You have already shown repeatedly that you do not change your views even when a preponderance of evidence is presented factually.
Of course, you are free to believe whatever you wish, even if it is a viewpoint that is completely detached from reality.
You asked specifically about gun registries; however, like almost all topics, you can find positive and negative arguments concerning them. This makes drawing a conclusion based upon different facts completely up to the mindset that the individual has, and generally, the individual will draw a conclusion that his initial thoughts were correct. The real litmus test is how they affect the everyday life of the average citizen. Does having gun registries make the average citizen safer? If we look at the crime statistics in DC and Chicago, it would appear that going as far as bans do not have the desired effect of making the average citizen safer.
If you really want to investigate this subject, perhaps you should start by reading the work of Gary Kleck. If you are just trolling, you won't bother to.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Not trolling. And my views are very much open to change, it's just finding factual evidence around here is rare and it's even more rare that it's compelling. If I already know 1+1=2, you're not gonna convince me that it's 3. Maybe that's why you think my views are unwavering. Before I went to school I used to think the same thing as the typical sentiments around here. Especially as far as economics goes.
If a registry doesn't directly affect my safety, does that mean their shouldn't be one?
I've given you facts and evidence plenty of times. You just refused to acknowledge the truth. That's your choice of course.
What you don't seem to realize that you think that you are adding 1+1 to equal 2, but in reality you are adding 0+1 and getting 2. Since you don't understand that the two values being added are not equal, you never realize that your conclusion is incorrect.
A better question is: Should law abiding citizens be forced to give up their privacy or rights for a program that has not shown any positive results?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
This is still going on?
no need, I dont think gun registering is bad at all. Guns should be treated like Titles to a car, everytime you sell it , you should be required to register that "car" (GUN) in your name.
I dont buy the "the govt is coming to take my arms" scare propaganda that a lot of people buy into. Its absolutely asinine to think that a person can walk into a store in GA, buy a gun, willingly submit to a background check to the Federal govt, pay for the weapon, walk out, and if you attempt to sell the gun to someone off the street without the SAME requirements, all of the sudden its "INFRINGING MY RIGHTS BRO".
Gun advocates think that there is some separation of between used and new that 1 is ok to treat 1 way, and the other completely different.
David and Sin save your breath, not trying to argue, we have been over this time and time again. I respect your opinions and views. Just putting this thread to bed
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I have to agree, I don't see why registering a gun is a bad thing.
As i have said before, theres like 500 million guns in circulation in the USA. The govt doesnt have the resources to take them, period. The military would NEVER turn on its own citizens here. NEVER.
just my opiinon. Register them at the state level, fuck federal.
I have news for you, they ALREADY know who owns what, thats in the background check when you buy the gun new
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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Theres 2 sides to the argument neither of which you can prove works.
UK , Chicago , Detroit, NYC are poster childs for strict gun laws doing FUCK ALL for crime related to guns.
Theres no evidence that proves registering guns will solve any problems, and theres no proof that not registering solves anything.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
so lets assume a gun bill will roll out just as smooth as healthcare law. what happens when the law changes after registration? perhaps a change to what is and isnt allowed?
cali adds new guns to thier prohibited list yearly. they also propose that any gun that doesnt stamp the serial on a shell be prohibited... no biggie right? any change to a law has to go through congress right?
who would enforce these laws though? what department of homeland security is big enough?
i get it, i want my family to be as safe as chicago families, but at what cost?
Shits and giggles.
http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/6/2/...98%7Dti151.pdf
This is a nearly impossible topic to draw any conclusions from because there simply is no way to prove either side.
Gun bans just create a black market and those willing to break the law arent going to hesitate to break it again buy purchasing an illegal gun.
Mike has a great point about the guns being registered when they purchase it from an FFL.
I have no problems requiring all guns be transferred by an FFL and have the paper trail that make guns traceable to their current owner. The problem is, there are 500 million guns currently in circulation in this country and many millions of them are not currently owned by the original purchaser. That means there are over 500 million guns that would have to be exempted from this law.
Mike, you work or worked at AA right? How are the forms filed and how long does the store need to keep them?
if you have a handicap kid are you gonna turn your guns in?
if you go to marriage counselling are you gonna turn your guns in?
if anyone in your household sees a therapist are you gonna turn your guns in?
also jimmy.... you served in the military, turn your guns in, you have ptsd.
have you actually looked at any of these bills????????????????
if you have, please help me understand why you have one ounce of trust in the democrat regime who is proposing them.
I dont remember seeing any bill that matched what I was saying and didnt expand on it. Could you point that one out for me please. I'm pretty sure I would actively support it.
Oh and I have just as little faith in someone with an R next to their name. Have you seen that obnoxious BS they passed in AZ? Leave it to the GOP to hand over a political gift just as campaign season is starting.
republicans arent the answer. theyre more than happy surrendering to democrats as long as the two party "choice" remains.
theyve spent more time attacking themselves than they have democrats, even though these are the most vile and corrupt dems that washington has ever seen.
back on topic... i posted the gun bill the same day it touched paper. please tell me that youre not delusional enough to believe a "clean" registration only bill exists.
How did we get from registries to turning guns in? I did to say anything about that
to some people its the same thing, which is why I hate this topic.
Its impossible for people with Sinfixs position to separate the 2. In their minds, registration is the same as grabbing guns. They are not comfortable with registering guns because they feel that is 1 step towards seizure and breaking the 2nd amendment.
I dont feel that way, because I dont believe the govt will ever have that power. If they told the military to go door to door to pick up AR15s, does anyone actually think the high school educated soldier is going to say "ok, no problem, BRB"
no. Not in my opinion
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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I used to run their Facebook and i knew the owners. I also used to do all their accounting/books. Without giving away too much information , Ill just say that the Feds know who are buying guns, more specifically the 4473s and who is filling them out. Even more specifically its the ATF.
We would be routinely audited and it would go back IIRC 5-7 years in some cases. The auditors could ask for a specific gun sold from X years ago and ask to see the receipt , the paperwork filled out, etc.
The BUSINESSES have to keep them on record for a long time (I think its 10 years) , the Feds cannot keep any list that im aware of.
So if it came down to it, if they passed a law tomorrow federally banning all AR15s and make it retroactive, AA could refuse to give up the records of people who purchased AR15s or have a mysterious "fire" and rid themselves of all their records to protect the citizens.
Thats why I think they should keep the record keeping at the state level, not federal. Let states police their own rules
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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Do you honestly believe a govt DHS worker will be able to take Johnny Rednecks 25 AR15s from his house?
There would be a civil war LONG before we got to that point
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
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Training for possible terrorist attacks is not training for govt takeover /coup/communism type stuff we are talking about.
THEY ALREADY KNOW. you dont think hes already on a watch list ? A militia list?what do you think theyre gonna do with a registry? just put it in a filing cabnet? its a tool...... so they know where the "rednecks with 25 ar15s" are.
Yes, i think they will use it as a tool when someone gets murdered to trace who last owned the weapon. You would remove the grey market and make it black market. Illegal weapons would be out there, but the grey market would dissappear.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
its not gonna happen next thursday. its gonna be the common core generation, someone like blank's kids... raised on propaganda. Someone who believes the NRA is the KKK and the tea party is the new confederacy... at the current rate of growth, what will the DHS look like in 10-15 years?
the campaign to demonize gun owners has already started.the "war on terror" will never end, it will just change targets. have you listened to any of the UN hearings where they say gun rights in America are a weapon of mass destruction and that the world wont know peace as long as citizens are armed? then someone like John Kerry all but kisses thier feet and promises that him and Obama are doing the best they can.
the ability to defend ourselves cant be jeopardized by your faith in government.
I just dont share your point of view thats all.
I dont believe the US Govt will ever be that powerful over its citizens.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net