Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
It's hilarious that the very first guy he interviewed made him look like a jackass.
Peter Schiff content warning for anyone else about to click it. Not that anyone else here is seekers of accurate and unbiased information anyway.
Not sure if you watched the right video.
Its obviously a satire, but the point is you would have to raise prices to pay higher wages, and the public doesnt support that.
you cant just raise wages and expect it to have zero effect on the rest of the economy and jobs. The point he makes is 100% accurate
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Its wasnt funny (at least, in the way he intended it to be), nor does he raise a valid point
Maybe you missed the point of the minimum wage discussion.but the point is you would have to raise prices to pay higher wages, and the public doesnt support that.
you cant just raise wages and expect it to have zero effect on the rest of the economy and jobs. The point he makes is 100% accurate
In all honesty i was hoping you wouldnt pop in here because these little economic banters are just boring.
Its hard to have you in other threads when you refuse to answer questions in others.
Tell me how you raise minimum wage + $8/hr and everything else in the economy stays the same.
The point of this is to just show you that people shop at Walmart for a reason, low prices. When you increase the costs of doing business(wages), you raise prices. This is simple ECON, stuff you just dont understand. But, guys like you just think the Evil Walmart can just write the check and take it out of their "profit" to be "nice guys"
Too bad business doesnt work that way
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
I understand. It's difficult to have an economic banter with someone who actually knows economics. I wouldn't want to banter with me either.
Could you tell me the last time the baseline effectively doubled overnight in recent history?Tell me how you raise minimum wage + $8/hr and everything else in the economy stays the same.
Take your time.
In the meantime, could there be another reason people are asking for $15?
And the very first person he approached was supportive of a drastic minimum wage hike, and was almost willing to donate before he started with the invasive questions.The point of this is to just show you that people shop at Walmart for a reason, low prices. When you increase the costs of doing business(wages)"
He makes a really shitty comedian and economist. He should probably stick to his day job and stop offering Econ opinions and terrible comedy.
Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert have the political satire/comedy thing covered.
I've compiled a list of emotional arguments you movement conservatives can use against me to tear my arguments down piece by piece. You can chose from, but are not limited to:
"[insert co. here]employees doesn't deserve it"
"Mcdonalds can't even get my order right"
"Why should we pay them as much as someone with [insert graduate degree here]"
And finally, "I don't even make $15 an hour"
Blank, when you pay the lowest segment of the population 'X' dollars, every segment above them expects a percentage more than they do for their work. If a cashier's wages double to $15, the hourly manager is well within reason to expect $30. If you are making $30 as a shift manager at McDonald's, this causes a price increase.
If I could make $30/hr at McDonald's, why should I spend my days working on multi-million dollar airplanes for $30? To entice qualified workers, my employer is forced to raise wages 25% to prevent skills loss, they have to charge their customers 25% more for their products.
If I am making 25% more, the engineers are going to expect that also. If the engineers are getting that pay hike, so are the managers. If the managers are getting that pay hike, so are the executives.
What does all this turn into? Massive inflation and price increases across the board thereby reducing buying power right back to where it is today.
Do I expect you to understand all this? Not a chance. You can only see things in a vacuum. In your mind, if something happens to A, B, C, and D are not affected because nothing directly happened to them.
I'd love to support walmart workers making higher wages!...
Where can i donate to their college funds?
LOL>>>> "Where's some Obama voters? theyre sure to want to spend more money"
Funny that blank jumped on this instantly when it is so OBVIOUSLY a joke.
You mean, they would feel 'entitled', correct?
Easy there. That slope is pretty slipperyIf I could make $30/hr at McDonald's, why should I spend my days working on multi-million dollar airplanes for $30? To entice qualified workers, my employer is forced to raise wages 25% to prevent skills loss, they have to charge their customers 25% more for their products.
I understand what you're saying, but slippery slopes and hyperbole are pretty poor ways to get your point across.Do I expect you to understand all this? Not a chance. You can only see things in a vacuum. In your mind, if something happens to A, B, C, and D are not affected because nothing directly happened to them.
Wanna pick another argument?
Ok. So you want to use the skill argument.
We can probably agree stocking shelves at Walmart and cashiering at McDonalds requires little skill, and is a job that hasn't changed much in recent history. Put this box on that shelf/take customers money and give correct change.
So if the job remains the same, why have we raised minimum wage at all since the 30s? Should minimum wage workers still make 30 cents an hour for doing the same task they did 80 years ago?
Those arguments are not interlinked with each other. The minimum wage is what it is and Walmart compensates their employees based around those perimeters. If the minimum wage became $50/hr tomorrow, then everyone else would start making $150/hr and the cost of a gallon of milk would go up to $35, accomplishing nothing.
So, separate the minimum wage debate from what employers actually pay their employees. Then understand that skill decides your salary, regardless of what the minimum wage is.
If i create a company selling post it note greeting cards and it becomes a multi billion dollar industry, i should still be able to pay people a fair wage for their ability to sign a post it note, regardless of what my profit margin is. Business owners reap the benefits of profit margins.... not burger flippers or shelf fillers.
All I can say is if they are not happy with what they earn I know many who would love it lol
Like Batman said at the end of the video "Nobody wants higher prices"
Lol its funny just to see blank squirm
Why do they deserve $15/hr? Why not $20?30?40?
What makes them pick that number blank?
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Who is squirming?
Why not $10? $5? $1?
Why does it matter to what they deserve? It doesn't to anyone else, and it never has. The same defeatist arguments were used to oppose raising the minimum wage to $7.25, to $5.25, to $4.75, to $3. You'd figure by now, opposers would come up with some new material since it hasn't worked so far. Lol.
"Why not raise it to $30, $50, $100/hr" - slippery slope, defeated.
"They don't deserve it" - false
"Blah blah blah skill level" - false
"Worldwide global inflation recession crash" - false
"Minimum wage is separate from what employers pay employees" - first time I've heard that one, dunno what that non-sensical babble has to do with what we're talking about here
There's a reason why I don't use emotional arguments and slippery slope fallacies. I know enough to avoid them. Frankly it's getting old pointing out when the rest of this forum uses them. Figured one would learn by the 2nd or 3rd time. Not by the 174th.
Theyre not protesting the government to raise the min wage..... theyre protesting their employers. Your company is legally obligated to pay you a min wage and that's it. It doesnt matter if the company makes trillions..... theyre legally obligated to pay you min wage and not a penny more.
The min wage is what it is..... Anything you make above that mark is attributed to how valuable your skills are.
Minimum wage is a completely different topic. The government sets the min wage....... it's not mcdonalds or walmarts job to offer you a living or make sure your bills are paid. If you cant make a living working at mcdonalds..... get a roommate, go back to school, live in an apartment, dont have kids, learn to like the taste of ramen noodles..... really dont give a fuck, it's your problem.
Funny how blank keeps saying everyone is being emotional... when he's the one who always plays the role of captain save a hoe for every freeloading welfare abusing pot head.
Because Federal law says minimum wage is at least $7.25. Most places protesting pay more than minimum wage FYI (Mcdonalds/Walmart)
So you just arbitrarily picked a number?Why does it matter to what they deserve? It doesn't to anyone else, and it never has. The same defeatist arguments were used to oppose raising the minimum wage to $7.25, to $5.25, to $4.75, to $3. You'd figure by now, opposers would come up with some new material since it hasn't worked so far. Lol.
How has the minimum wage HELPED workers? All data (which i have posted before) has shown that despite minimum wage increases, and despite social welfare spending Poverty rate has stayed the same. There is ZERO data to show that raising the minimum wage does anything but inflate prices and make it harder for the poor to survive (it diminishes their buying power).
So, your argument is that when we raised the minimum wage from $4-5-6-7 ..............it didnt work so we need to raise it more? LOL This is how dense you are. You dont even realize the argument you are making conmpletly contradicts your beliefs. We have raised the minimum wage in the past, and by definition IT DIDNT WORK so you want to raise it more. So why not $20/hr?
Why $15? Seriously, why $15 an hour. What data shows that is good enough, that everything will be ok. How come they struggle at $7.55 an hour, but $15 hr we all sing koombaya and everything is great?"Why not raise it to $30, $50, $100/hr" - slippery slope, defeated.
They dont deserve it, they EARN it. If you have skills to make $15 hr you get paid it or you go get hired for that job. Low skilled labor makes low skilled wages. Period."They don't deserve it" - false
Skill level correlates to pay. Its why I make $50,000 a year and the guy next to me with CCISP makes $75,000 a year. Its why The guy next to him make $100k a year because he has his masters and PMP."Blah blah blah skill level" - false
So if you dont get paid based upon skillset, what do you think your pay should be based on? Fuzzy warm feelings?
Ripple effect would be bad just like it was back in 90s when they raised wages. People would be laid off, prices would rise , its not even debateable, go look at econ data from the 90s or take it from someone who lived through it. I was a lifeguard at the YMCA and we laid 1 HS off when they passed the higher Minimum wage. My pay went up, but John lost his job because of it."Worldwide global inflation recession crash" - false
youre just not smart enough to understand it probably because you never lived it."Minimum wage is separate from what employers pay employees" - first time I've heard that one, dunno what that non-sensical babble has to do with what we're talking about here
Minimum wage is federal minimum standards. WalMart pays what they think their labor force is WORTH the be competitive in the market place. It doesnt have to be minimum wage, it just cant be below it.
The AVERAGE Sales Associate at Wal Mart (this excludes managers) is $8.86 /hr. They make MORE than minimum wage. If WalMart wanted to make more money they could be shitty and pay them less. they dont. They voluntarily pay them more.
IF they arent happy with their wages, go work somewhere else.
The issue is most of the people wanting to strike probably have a shitty resume and cant get a higher paying job. So, they want the system to change for them. Instead of becoming a better worker, they have been brainwashed into thinking the evil Company OWES them.There's a reason why I don't use emotional arguments and slippery slope fallacies. I know enough to avoid them. Frankly it's getting old pointing out when the rest of this forum uses them. Figured one would learn by the 2nd or 3rd time. Not by the 174th.
I sincerely hope that Walmart caves, pays them $15/hr and then lays off 50% of the work force. Fuck em. Ill survive, because I can afford to shop at Target or Publix, or Walmart, I make enough money. And I have worked shitty dead end jobs that paid Minimum wage.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Its useless because Blank doesnt understand how everthing else in the economy would be affected. he doesnt understand how economics works which is why he never answers any of the main questions people ask. Hes so ideological , EVERYTHING is partisan to him if you dont believe his way. He cant possible understand the other side. Id be all for raising wages if he could provide a solid argument on why and how to do it
Why $15/hr? Why not pay everyone $50,000 a year? Surely that will solve everything and everyone will be fine, nothing will be affected. Price of milk, clothing, etc will all stay the same because the Corporations will just absorb the cost and deal with less profit.
Of course, im sure they have intricate models that show how a $15/hr increase would effect the current business model
/SARCASM
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
The sad thing is, you're breaking down complex economic concepts, exposing the psychological aspects that people seem overlook, and single handedly dispelling the raging liberal myths that our one village idiot seems to cling to. If reality is this easy to grasp, what does it say about those who cant reach it?
Last edited by Sinfix_15; 12-19-2013 at 10:52 AM.
Dont ask me. I don't know why they picked $15. Probably to get a discussion started. In any case, there is a legitimate argument to be had that inflation and productivity is outpacing the current minimum wage.
What are you reading? Econ for kidZ?How has the minimum wage HELPED workers? All data (which i have posted before) has shown that despite minimum wage increases, and despite social welfare spending Poverty rate has stayed the same. There is ZERO data to show that raising the minimum wage does anything but inflate prices and make it harder for the poor to survive (it diminishes their buying power).
Not my argument at all. I wouldn't say anything that stupid.So, your argument is that when we raised the minimum wage from $4-5-6-7 ..............it didnt work so we need to raise it more?
If we based minimum wage on skill alone, it would still be 30 cents an hr. Don't be dense. No business has ever paid its employees based on skill alone. You'd know that if you were ever in the capacity that required setting someone's salary.They dont deserve it, they EARN it. If you have skills to make $15 hr you get paid it or you go get hired for that job. Low skilled labor makes low skilled wages. Period.
Skill level correlates to pay. Its why I make $50,000 a year and the guy next to me with CCISP makes $75,000 a year. Its why The guy next to him make $100k a year because he has his masters and PMP..
We had such a horrible economy in the 90s.Ripple effect would be bad just like it was back in 90s when they raised wages. People would be laid off, prices would rise , its not even debateable, go look at econ data from the 90s or take it from someone who lived through it. I was a lifeguard at the YMCA and we laid 1 HS off when they passed the higher Minimum wage. My pay went up, but John lost his job because of it.
You should probably lay off the anecdotal evidence. It's not helping your case any. One business's labor demands aren't the same as all of them. But you should know that. You're an Econ student too...
Before you said it was based on skill alone. Make up your mind. Lol.[/QUOTE]Minimum wage is federal minimum standards. WalMart pays what they think their labor force is WORTH the be competitive in the market place. It doesnt have to be minimum wage, it just cant be below it.
This is coming from the person who believes wages are paid based on skill alone. Got it.
You mean the questions YOURE asking that everyone else in the field has good answers for? Those questions?he doesnt understand how economics works which is why he never answers any of the main questions people ask.
Hey, it's another slippery slope argument. No surprise here. Why not just make minimum wage $50k? 100k? 200k?Why $15/hr? Why not pay everyone $50,000 a year? Surely that will solve everything and everyone will be fine, nothing will be affected. Price of milk, clothing, etc will all stay the same because the Corporations will just absorb the cost and deal with less profit.
Thats one of those questions everyone is asking right? LOL
You guys make this entirely too easy for me
You do all the time.
Not on skill alone, but on skills, qualifications, experience, and available workers in the marketplace. You need no skills, qualifications, or experience and there is an unlimited number of potential workers to bus tables or stock shelves. Thats is why the wages are low and dont need to rise.
You dont think your skills affect your worth as an employee?
You still havent realized that raising the minimum wage will affect other areas huh?
Its impossible to ration with him.
I never said ONLY skills dictate what youre worth, he said skills dont matter, I said they do. SO then he puts words in my mouth and goes off on some tangent about nothing I even said.
I said:
He then saysSkill level correlates to pay
Does that look like what I said? Absolutely not, but this is what the Left does. they make up arguments by picking stuff out of what you say, despite it being in CLEAR english.Before you said it was based on skill alone.
Skills mean: Education, Training, experience. That is the definition of skillset in the work place.
If you want to raise minimum wage, go for it, but show me WHY, the arguement has to be better than "I CANT SURVIVE ON X.XX an hour" because minimum wage isnt meant for you to SURVIVE. MINIMUM WAGE means the WORST JOB YOU COULD POSSIBLY HAVE.
hey man, some people just arent made out to be in the work force. not my problem
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
WHY $15/ hr? Would you settle for 10$? WHY?
They cant answer this question because its a bunch of mindless idiots looking to get free money for doing no more work.
I cant survive on $50,000 a year, I need more, give it to me. Why not?
Because they get to arbitrarily pick who is poor an needs help? Who died and made them king?
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Not only skills, economic conditions as measured by real and nominal gross domestic product, inflation, labor supply and demand, wage levels, distribution and differentials, employment terms, productivity growth, labor costs, business operating costs, the number and trend of bankruptcies, economic freedom rankings, standards of living and the prevailing average wage rate. Real economists don't pretend like minimum wage is linked to how much a couple people think they deserve. Math doesn't work that way.
We're talking about a bump in the baseline. Not cushioning someone's career pathYou dont think your skills affect your worth as an employee?
I am probably the only one in here who knows how raising the minimum wage will affect the economy. It's what I do. We can use math, models, studies, and supply and demand curves to figure out at what point between $7.25/hr and $100,000 dollars a year would have the best economic impact. One thing is for certain: there is an argument to be had that productivity and inflation have outpaced the current minimum wage and that we are at a point where it would be beneficial to raise it. We don't focus on how we feel about who deserves what and the $15/hr BS. That's just something that gets news junkies riled up and feelings have very little room in empirical discussion.You still havent realized that raising the minimum wage will affect other areas huh?
Search Wikipedia for large words, post on forum to make it sound smart and interesting
Give no information about why or how we should implement said actionsWe're talking about a bump in the baseline. Not cushioning someone's career path
Say im the smartest in the room without posting anything that backs this statement up.I am probably the only one in here who knows how raising the minimum wage will affect the economy. It's what I do. We can use math, models, studies, and supply and demand curves to figure out at what point between $7.25/hr and $100,000 dollars a year would have the best economic impact. One thing is for certain: there is an argument to be had that productivity and inflation have outpaced the current minimum wage and that we are at a point where it would be beneficial to raise it. We don't focus on how we feel about who deserves what and the $15/hr BS. That's just something that gets news junkies riled up and feelings have very little room in empirical discussion.
/Blank.CD
We have argued why it wont work, and posted numbers and decades of theories/real life experience that shows it doesnt work.
You have dismissed all of it and shown no facts of your own.
So yeah, you have zero to add. Move along
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
I've added enough. Everything else from this point will be emotional banter and feels and such
I'm sure with all your facts you're dishing out maybe you could give me the math that shows how much people deserve. Maybe you can plot that on a graph for us. You know, facts. Lol.
[QUOTE=.blank cd;39532210]Not only skills, economic conditions as measured by real and nominal gross domestic product, inflation, labor supply and demand, wage levels, distribution and differentials, employment terms, productivity growth, labor costs, business operating costs, the number and trend of bankruptcies, economic freedom rankings, standards of living and the prevailing average wage rate. Real economists don't pretend like minimum wage is linked to how much a couple people think they deserve. Math doesn't work that way. {/quote]
So you completely ignored most of what I said and stopped with skills again? Distribution has absolutely zero to do with paid wages. They only things that determine your cost to your employer are your skills, knowledge, certifications, and experience. Nothing else.
I mean really. You throw out all these terms and they have absolutely nothing to do with what you are quoting or with this thread. What zip code your employer resides in has FAR more to do with wages than GDP does.
What does a career path have to do with your worth to your employer? Considering we arent talking about upward mobility, I am going to say absolfuckinglutly nothing.
You can jerk yourself as much as you want, you have zero credibility. You have backed noting up with facts.
I've proved my position with facts. All the rest have offered is pure emotion filled whining about how much people deserve. Things that don't have a place in empirical dicussion. If that's what you guys want to talk about then that's great, have at it.
Still waiting on this data that says what McDonald's workers deserve. Lol
You cant tell me what they should be paid, and I can tell you they are paid a competitive wage based upon their skill set.
Thats the end of this thread.
The wages they are paid take into account what Target/Costco/Kmart and other competitors are paying their employees for the work they perform and the return walmart sees on their investment in those employees and the goods they sell. (AKA ECON 101)
There is no reason to move the line UP unless the employer feels the need to do so (because they own those jobs). They will pay more if they feel like:
Attracting BETTER candidates
Its not cost prohibitive
There isnt legions of uneducated 20 year olds waiting to take that job
You cant argue from a position of strength when a 17 year old can walk in and take your job from you. you are replaceable. Youre goal should be to make yourself irreplaceable (through skill set).
Raising the minimum wage doesnt make their lives better it makes it WORSE. You diminish their buying power (which you keep ignoring). The argument could be made that we should be trying to help them into better jobs through training, but I suspect most of them want $40,000 a year jobs on $20,000 a year training.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net