Court order to Verizon to turn over mass data to the NSA

[David88vert]

Obama's Administration is actually trying to have all data transmitted through cellular communication networks. While individual names and the content of the call may or may not be included now - you can bet that they will want that later. Report: Court order forces Verizon to turn over records of millions - CNN.com

[Sinfix_15]

I guess when he said "most transparent government ever" what he really meant is that you will be the most transparent to government ever.

[Browning151]

It's pretty bad when even Al Gore thinks you're out there....

Gore, in a tweet following the Guardian report, wrote, "In the digital era, privacy must be a priority. Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous?"

"Reject those voices......" Riiiiiight.

[.blank cd]

Focusing on a part of the Patriot Act that allows the government to gather records, they wrote, "As we see it, there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government claims the law allows. This is a problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what the law should say when the public doesn't know what its government thinks the law says."

This is true for EVERY issue in politics. The gap between what you think you know, and what it actually is.

So what is this order actually? What is its purpose? What does the Obama administration have to do with this?

[David88vert]

So what is this order actually? What is its purpose? What does the Obama administration have to do with this?

If you read the article, you would know.

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If you read the article, you would know.

Actually, I read that the order is classified, and that the Obama administration has very little to do with this. So what do you know that this article doesn't mention?

[David88vert]

Actually, I read that the order is classified, and that the Obama administration has very little to do with this. So what do you know that this article doesn't mention?

You obviously did not comprehend what you read then. Do you believe that the DOJ does not work with the WH Administration? Why is it that Senators, Representatives, the ACLU, etc, all understand the implications, but you do not?

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You obviously did not comprehend what you read then. Do you believe that the DOJ does not work with the WH Administration? Why is it that Senators, Representatives, the ACLU, etc, all understand the implications, but you do not?

They seem to understand something different than you, according to the article anyway. But you can interpret the article how you wish, as its you're right. But just understand the order comes from the NSA, NOT the Obama administration. As it says in the article. Your first post is misleading at best, and a blatant falsehood at worst.

[David88vert]

They seem to understand something different than you, according to the article anyway. But you can interpret the article how you wish, as its you're right. But just understand the order comes from the NSA, NOT the Obama administration. As it says in the article. Your first post is misleading at best, and a blatant falsehood at worst.

You obviously don't know that the NSA is an agency of the US DoD, and that falls under the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and their mission was set forth by Executive Order 12333.
In case you were not paying attention, this all stems from Bush's "President's Surveillance Program".

[Echonova]

Who here thinks Verizon is the only provider they have done this to, raise your hand.




~crickets~

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You obviously don't know that the NSA is an agency of the US DoD, and that falls under the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and their mission was set forth by Executive Order 12333.
In case you were not paying attention, this all stems from Bush's "President's Surveillance Program".

So since this is the NSA's responsibility, and its headed by someone appointed during the Bush Administration, and according to you an executive order by Reagan, what does this have to do with Obama?

[David88vert]

So what does this have to do with Obama?

Who does the Secretary of Defense report to, and who is the new Secretary of Defense?

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Who does the Secretary of Defense report to, and who is the new Secretary of Defense?

I see nothing about the secretary of defense's involvement after the 4th time reading the article. I have seen that the administration has yet to comment. So what has the SoD told you that they haven't told CNN yet? Lol

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And I'm still trying to figure out what my cause for alarm should be

[Echonova]

And I'm still trying to figure out what my cause for alarm should be

You never will.

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You never will.

I know. Sucks not being overly paranoid about every little action of the big bad government. Lol.

[Vteckidd]

Honestly this is a black mark on all admins.

Bush set in forth the Dept of Homeland Security which has lead to the TSA and drones , wiretaps, all kinds of invasions of privacy. However, Obama has done nothing to slow this down and has in many cases EXPANDED it. We are now drone killing american citizens abroad. These are the same poeple who bitched about waterboarding 3 people who were NOT US Citizens.

Blank, Obama doesnt live on and Island and get to take credit for good and distance himself from the bad. He is the commander in chief, the buck stops with him. He is the one who sets the tone for the rest of the department to follow. This is why cabinet appointees are very relevant.

Did Obama order this, no, but people who work with him and for him knew this went on. That doesnt absolve him.

To me it looks like his agencies are running rogue, targeting people at will and hiding behind bullshit excuses and Obama washes his hands and says "well i didnt do it directly". Im sorry but when youre the president, you take responsibility. You are held accountable for actions under your administration.

This isnt so much an indictment against Obama, its an indictment against the dangers of big government and the power they will yield. FYI these were MILLIONS OF PHONE RECORDS in relation to the Boston Bombing. They used a terrorist attack to go after MILLIONS of phone records pertaining to 2 people?

[Browning151]

I know. Sucks not being overly paranoid about every little action of the big bad government. Lol.

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Honestly this is a black mark on all admins.

Bush set in forth the Dept of Homeland Security which has lead to the TSA and drones , wiretaps, all kinds of invasions of privacy. However, Obama has done nothing to slow this down and has in many cases EXPANDED it. We are now drone killing american citizens abroad. These are the same poeple who bitched about waterboarding 3 people who were NOT US Citizens.

Theres a difference between torture and expanding access (for what seems to be a limited time) to cell phone metadata. A very clear one. Lol.

Blank, Obama doesnt live on and Island and get to take credit for good and distance himself from the bad. He is the commander in chief, the buck stops with him.

So who gets to decide what's "good" and what's "bad"? How are you deciding what's good and what's bad? The details are classified. All you've heard is The NSA wants the ability to collect metadata from Verizon. Still trying to figure out what Obamas role in this was, since he hasn't given a statement and all. And the reality of it is, the buck doesn't always stop with him. That's not how our government is set up. And it's that way for a reason.

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I figured that was coming.

So do you believe, when there's something that you don't understand, classified or not, that the government always has bad and evil intentions?

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"This is a black mark on the administration"

I don't get tired of hearing that phrase

/s

[Browning151]

[Browning151]

I figured that was coming.

So do you believe, when there's something that you don't understand, classified or not, that the government always has bad and evil intentions?

Who said anything about bad and evil intentions? The mere fact that the gov't continually gives themselves more access to whatever personal information about you they want to see should be alarming enough.

[Vteckidd]

Theres a difference between torture and expanding access (for what seems to be a limited time) to cell phone metadata. A very clear one. Lol.

So who gets to decide what's "good" and what's "bad"? How are you deciding what's good and what's bad? The details are classified. All you've heard is The NSA wants the ability to collect metadata from Verizon. Still trying to figure out what Obamas role in this was, since he hasn't given a statement and all. And the reality of it is, the buck doesn't always stop with him. That's not how our government is set up. And it's that way for a reason.

Funny how the same treatment was never given to other people along other party lines.

Funny how that works out isnt it?

Yes, the buck ALWAYS STOPS WITH HIM, hes the president.

Otherwise we get the culture that we have now, the "I DONT KNOW" or "IM NOT APART OF EVERY DECISION". Anyone that is in Obamas admin just hapens to forget or act like they had nothing to do with ANYTIME they are caught in a lie. Why is that?

[Vteckidd]

So drone attacks killing american citizens isnt the same as WATER BOARDING (which isnt torture FYI).

REALLY?

you obviously havent read the report that Catherine Herrige came out with today, she toured the NSAs Utah data center by helicopter, and she is the one breaking this story. Democrats are condemning it. The NSA took MILLIONS of records under court order from cell phones from geographical location to contact numbers, social networking, etc. MILLIONS.

Let that sink in for a minute.

That doesnt BOTHER YOU?

If it was President Bush wouldnt it BOTHER you that the govt is getting increasingly aggressive towards its citizens ?

IRS is targeting specific voters to suppress the vote
Holder signs off on targeting AP Reporters and Opposition reporter for NO REASON (they even admitted they never would have prosecuted Rosen)
Benghazi we still have no answers as to what happened despite Eye Witness testimony directly contradicting WH officials LIES

I mean its getting pretty bad.

Obama is either the most incompetent and inept executive in charge, or he is very good at deflecting and distancing himself from everything his administration is doing.

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Funny how the same treatment was never given to other people along other party lines.

Funny how that works out isnt it?

Well, we're not talking about someone along another party line are we?

Yes, the buck ALWAYS STOPS WITH HIM, hes the president.

Sorry. Not always. This is how its been for the past couple hundred years. Nothing changed when Obama came into town. Unless they changed that part in the constitution about the separation of powers recently and I didn't hear about it. Lol. But you know how the liberal left is, always secretly changing the constitution. Damn liberals.

Otherwise we get the culture that we have now, the "I DONT KNOW" or "IM NOT APART OF EVERY DECISION". Anyone that is in Obamas admin just hapens to forget or act like they had nothing to do with ANYTIME they are caught in a lie. Why is that?

I haven't seen an instance of that happening outside of the recent manufactured crises.

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So drone attacks killing american citizens isnt the same as WATER BOARDING (which isnt torture FYI).

Waterboarding is very much in fact torture. We all know that. Call it enhanced interrogation if you want, same thing. There's no debate about that. But lets not go off on a tangent here

The NSA took MILLIONS of records under court order from cell phones from geographical location to contact numbers, social networking, etc. MILLIONS.

Let that sink in for a minute.

That doesnt BOTHER YOU?

If it was President Bush wouldnt it BOTHER you that the govt is getting increasingly aggressive towards its citizens?

Not under your personal definition of increasingly aggressive, no. If you're going to label requesting the access to these millions of cell phone records (which, what THEY contain is still currently classified) as aggressive, you're gonna have to prove to me exactly what they are, and exactly what they're doing with them.

[RandomGuy]

What about all of those breaches out there in the private sector? Do you think that none of that information makes it back to our intelligence? Do you think none of it is orchestrated by them (or at least funded by them... contracted out to to seedy firms).
6 Biggest Breaches Of 2012 So Far -- Dark Reading

From the people who brought you Stuxnet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia They may have some insider access to exploits, No?

Why is a private firm in control of something like this that would be so incredibly widespread? Carrier IQ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also: Germany accused of using Trojan to spy on citizens | ZDNet

Do a google search on "Bundestrojaner light"

Even funnier is that I can no longer find the articles I've read on reputable websites about a remote access backdoor that SHIPPED installed on the iphone 4 in some european country without disclosure. Wow.

All of our info out there is up for their taking, the key is how can they use it without getting themselves in trouble. That is what all the current legislation is seeking to address.

[bu villain]

This is possible because of the PATRIOT act. I don't see why some people insist on turning this into a partisan issue. Both sides are guilty. How about holding everyone who voted for the PATRIOT act responsible, both under Bush and under Obama's tenure.

[Vteckidd]

Thats exactly what I said. Yet Blank is acting like Obama gets no blame for this. Obama is the one that promised to end all this, yet hes turned a blind eye and let it get WORSE.

Bush used this tactic to go after foreign nationals and interacting with local or US grown associates. It was more targeted searches. Over the years (not directly Obamas fault) is has grown to more and more broad. Now we are seeing MUCH more broad implementation.

Bush Admin said "hey can i borrow your Honda Civic? Thanks"

Obama Admin said "Hey can i borrow your car?" and proceeded to borrow every car youll ever own for the rest of your life.

This just goes to show how bad big government can get and how they ALWAYS ABUSE their power, not matter what happens. Im not saying Obama should suffer personally for this, but hes responsible for letting this go on unchecked under his administration, and given the pattern we are seeing in all the other scandals he has going on, its becoming increasingly aware he is either incompetent or very good at plausible denial.

2 Qualities I dont want in my president

[bu villain]

I'm fine with blaming Obama as long as an equal amount of ire is directed at everyone else who deserves it. How many others are being held accountable in this thread so far? Everyone in this forum has a GA representative who voted for the PATRIOT act, yet not a single person here is giving them shit for it. Why not? As GA residents, they are supposed to represent us more directly than Obama!

[RandomGuy]

Thats exactly what I said. Yet Blank is acting like Obama gets no blame for this. Obama is the one that promised to end all this, yet hes turned a blind eye and let it get WORSE.

Bush used this tactic to go after foreign nationals and interacting with local or US grown associates. It was more targeted searches. Over the years (not directly Obamas fault) is has grown to more and more broad. Now we are seeing MUCH more broad implementation.

Bush Admin said "hey can i borrow your Honda Civic? Thanks"

Obama Admin said "Hey can i borrow your car?" and proceeded to borrow every car youll ever own for the rest of your life.

This just goes to show how bad big government can get and how they ALWAYS ABUSE their power, not matter what happens. Im not saying Obama should suffer personally for this, but hes responsible for letting this go on unchecked under his administration, and given the pattern we are seeing in all the other scandals he has going on, its becoming increasingly aware he is either incompetent or very good at plausible denial.

2 Qualities I dont want in my president

Remember this thread: http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/...triot-act.html

How times change

[Vteckidd]

^^ not at all.

Read what I have written. I am consistent on this issue. I see not problem with targeted searches to obtain information. This is MUCH MORE More than that.

Blank is right we dont know all the details, but , they initial report by a well respected reporter is that MILLION of metadata was obtained shortly after the Boston Bombing. MILLIONS? Why MILLIONS? Did they use a domestic terrorist attack as a cover to go after tons of records? It sounds like a gross breach of power.



Youre equating me saying I support the patriot act in what was described with blind massive unwarranted seizure and encroaching the right to privacy.

[Vteckidd]

IMO I have seen NO EVIDENCE that big brother is crossing into gross intrusion of privacy. The CIA and FBI have had scare words for decades. They monitor peoples reading habits, website visits etc

2 years later, considering what the Govt is doing with the IRS and voter suppression, Holder and the AP wire taps and lies, now this, i have changed my opinion.

Or should I say "evolved" to quote Obama?

[Sinfix_15]

Blank, like every other Obama supporter, is going to go down with the ship. His support is unconditional.

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Blank, like every other Obama supporter, is going to go down with the ship. His support is unconditional.

Facepalm.

[Vteckidd]

I guess the point is that, a law passed, with the best intentions, almost always gets abused and twisted to the point of erroding freedoms. It happens under all administrations.

That doesnt mean we should have no laws, it means that we should elect better leaders, and TERM LIMITS i think are going to be the key. Politicians have figured out how to get elected and stay in power forever. Im surprised Verizon didnt say FUCK YOU and take it to the supreme court

[Echonova]

This just in: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program - The Washington Post


But the program started under Bush so it's ok.

[Elbow]

If Obama flat out shot a civilian Blank would have an excuse on why he did it or say it's not entirely about Obama. Jeez dude come on....

As for the rest of this, who cares? The government may see what I text or who I call? I hope they don't get offended on my search history of "teen pussy" or something like that. I bet I'll be in trouble.

[eraser4g63]

I like blanks response. " nothing to see here, move along... This is business as usual..."