I said if I was only breaking even because of increased business costs, instead of raising my costs, I'd go increase my revenue. Get more clients, hire more employees. If I have to spend more than I'm making so I can get more revenue at the end, that would be deficit spending. The End.
And if i go to my bank and sayOriginally Posted by .blank cd
" i have a brilliant idea and need a loan, i want to sell AC temperature units with mercury in them. I need $10,000 to produce 100 units that i plan to sell for $5 a piece"
What should i be told?
Risk management would say that is more risky than passing the added cost onto customers.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
You should be laughed out of the bank
I agree....... now lets apply that logic to Obama's economic policy and "laugh him out of the bank"
Business people love to take risks. I thought that was the ethos.
Maybe in some cases. But, if you look to the demand curve, what tends to happen if you increase prices?
You're certain he's trying to get a 10k loan to produce 100 units for $5?
How do you think this translates to the real world?
Because none of the policies are cost effective..... nothing is paid for..........programs that do nothing but lose money are ok............. In Obama's mind, spending 10k to provide 100 people with $5 worth of care if an accomplishment.
Risk management is not just taking risks.
As price goes up, generally, demand goes down; however, if the price of the same item goes up universally the same amount, and there are no other options, people typically feel that they have to pay the increased price, or go without. Some items are very difficult to go without.
When you have a system-wide increase in prices, then people generally just have to pay it, and have no recourse to get around it.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
:facepalm:
Lets say you watch 10 children a month, with 10 employees, $10,000 a month. You are at capacity. IE each child needs 1 employee. You are operating at a profit, paying all salaries, rent, implicit and explicit costs, etc.
Now, Obamacare comes a long and says "you now have to provide your 10 employees healthcare" at a cost of $2000 a month. you will be now -$2000 in the hole.
You have 2 choices
A) Increase the cost PER CHILD to your customer to make up the difference which can make you uncompetitive
B) Shed costs which means you lay 2 employees off and go down to 8 kids / 8 employees. Or you tell your employees they now have to do the work of 2 employees to stay employed (overworked and underpaid)
Now, your say you would do option C) Hire more employees to to more work and take on more revenue. But you are already -$2000 in the hole. Hiring costs even more money. And who is to say you can get more clients? What if your facility is too small? WHat if you would need a bigger building? What if you need more supplies to watch the kids?
The whole point is that expansion requires profit for investment. It is foolish to be losing money and to combat that and say "ill just go hire more people to make up for my added costs".
Case in point, Far far far better and smarter CEOs operating billion dollar companies, ARENT doing what you are suggesting, they are doing what IM suggesting. Shedding jobs and working within the confines of the law.
That is the telling tale that you are wrong. Sorry man
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Oh and the economy works by giving business money to invest, not taking money from them and telling them to hire.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
if healthcare wasn't coupled to employment, we wouldn't need business to pay anything for healthcare and they could focus on their business instead. I'm okay with single payer or a more market based solution but this tie of healthcare to your employer really bothers me.
substitute any tax or cost for Obamacare. Its not just Obamacare that is the problem. In the end, the companies are private entities, they own the labor, the jobs, the operating structure. They reserve the right to just go out of business.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Healthcare is not "coupled to employment". Businesses offer healthcare as part of the compensation package, which consist of salary/wage, vacation/sick days, medical/dental benefits , etc.
There are many employers who do not give benefits, only wages.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Obamacare will couple Healthcare to employment going forward. Employers of less than 50 people (i think thats the number) will have to provide healthcare in some form for their full time employees....OR....pay a tax/fine per worker.
You , as an employee will be required to have healthcare, or you will pay a tax/fine
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Absolutely. All the more reason we shouldn't have a system that encourages business to provide healthcare.
You are correct that not all business offer healthcare but it is one of the most common sources of how people are insured. I am suggesting we need to remove the incentive for employers to offer healthcare coverage because it is an inefficient solution.
True, but it also sets up insurance exchanges that could help to decouple insurance from employment. We will have to see how it turns out in time.
Since employer-provided healthcare insurance is currently considered compensation, if you remove it from being employer-provided, you are lowering employee compensation, as the employers will not be paying out for the insurance plan, and will be paying an additional tax instead. Since the employee is not receiving this compensation directly, their paycheck will stay the same; however, their benefits of health insurance will be limited to what the government decides to give them - they will not be given the equivalent compensation in salary to purchase their own insurance.
You claim that employer-provided health insurance is an inefficient solution; however, facts do not bear this statement out as truth. Government-managed Medicare/Medicaid is hardly a prime example of efficiency, and is known to be less efficient than private insurance. You will need to use a different argument, not efficiency.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Private companies already have had the concept of "insurance exchanges" for years - its called competition between private insurance providers.
If you just want to decouple medical insurance from being provided by employers you could have passed a law declaring it to not be allowed as a compensation benefit. Have the employers pay the same amount that they pay for the insurance benefits to the employees, and let the employees purchase their own insurance, just like their groceries and housing.
The Democratic Party would love to change that as well. Just give them more of your paycheck (most of it), and they will give you bread and water, and government housing....
If a company provides less compensation in the form of health benefits, why would that money not be applied to other forms of compensation (e.g., salaries)? In other words, why would a company care whether they provide a salary of $100k instead of $90k + $10k health? The cost is the same in the end.
How about comparing a private market solution that doesn't go through an employer vs our current system? I wasn't implying we needed to have everyone on medicare/medicaid. That being said I still believe a single payer system could be more efficient although clearly the current government system needs a lot of work.
The question is why do companies feel the need to offer health insurance as a benefit at all? The reason is that they can use their size to negotiate better rates with an insurance company that an individual could. While this makes sense, in a modern economy where changing jobs and flexibility is becoming more common, getting rid of barriers to make such changes would be beneficial.
It won't happen in reality. In the real world, companies don't tell you how much they pay towards your insurance premiums, and all you see is what you pay out of your check towards it. Companies are not going to magically add it into your paycheck. With Obamacare, they will just claim that they are paying it in taxes to the government for your healthcare. I guarantee that no large company is going to give any of the premiums that they pay out to their employees. It won't happen, as it is an elective, not mandatory benefit.
Single payer IS government managed. You cannot have a single payer private solution that is not - that would be a monopoly, and as you should be already aware, those never work in favor of the consumer/citizens if they are not government managed.
Companies offer health benefits for two main reasons - to attract employees and to keep employees. It's that simple. It is in the employers best interest to attract the best employees and to retain them. It's the same as paid vacation/sick days, life/dental/medical insurance, pension, 401K's, etc - these are benefits offered by the employer as part of a compensation package. Traditionally, they have not been required to offer benefits like health insurance.
Why get rid of them? That should be up to the private employers who are giving them as compensation packages to attract employees that they deem valuable to their business. Regulation of compensation provided by employers is a start down a dangerous path. What's next, government controlled and mandated salary caps? How is it the government's role to determine what a private company can choose to pay an employee?
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
No way to compare them. People would be absolutely shell shocked to see what their insurance actually costs compared to the percentage they pay through their employer.
There is no way for a private individual to negotiate rates based on diversified risk. When your employer negotiates with an insurer, they can get a lower overall rate because individual risk is spread over a large pool of participants.
Of course it COULD be, and in all honesty, it should be. The issue is that in real life it wont be. Our govt has proven that it can do absolutely nothing in a smart or efficient way. Under govt control, health care will go from 17% of GDP to 25% in 5 years and top 30% in 10 years. You can bank on that.
Last edited by BanginJimmy; 05-09-2013 at 08:39 PM.
[citation needed]
In 2011, the Fraser Institute, the top think-tank in Canada, released a report concerning Canada's single-payer healthcare system. According to their study, it is spending at an unsustainable rate. Obama repeatedly lauded the Canadian system as a model for the US when he was running for re-election.
Report: Canadian health care spending unsustainable | The Daily Caller
And more:
Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada is the Institute's annual report on hospital waiting times in Canada, based on a nationwide survey of physicians and health care practitioners. The twentieth annual survey, released December 2010, found that the total waiting time between referral from a general practitioner and delivery of elective treatment by a specialist, averaged across 12 specialties and 10 provinces surveyed, had risen from 16.1 weeks in 2009 to 18.2 weeks in 2010.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
"spending at an unsustainable rate"......
of course it got Obama's attention..... that's right up his alley.
I find it funny everyone blames Obama only. Maybe everyone
Should look at who is in congress and the house that passed this garbage.
My wife works for a big health insurance company here in GA and some of the
Laws she is telling me about scares me. How is the government going to
Force me to have insurance? If not fine me. I think Obama is an idiot because
He don't realize how many people have lost their jobs. How many insurance
Companies have closed up shop due to his new laws.
I'm just blessed my wife high up the ladder and she is helping set up these
Exchanges that are required by federal government now. I think GA should do what SC did
And make it against the law to follow Obama care.
I wouldn't expect the lot of them opposing Obamacare to actually take the time to understand what it really is and to take both the positives and negatives into account and come to a rational decision as long as it has "Obama" on it, regardless of who passed it or what it does. At this point, even if it cured cancer, solved world peace, and gave everyone a lifetime supply of free pink cotton candy, some of them will have a reason to vehemently oppose it. IMO.
We are, in fact, one of the only countries in the world that ISNT forced to have some kind of health care plan yet. And given our political and financial power in the world, I think it's about time. Personally, I think health insurance firms should be a faded memory at this point. But as of right now, they're like a cancer that's almost impossible to get rid of. It'll probably have to collapse under its own weight before we see any real change.My wife works for a big health insurance company here in GA and some of the
Laws she is telling me about scares me. How is the government going to
Force me to have insurance? If not fine me. I think Obama is an idiot because
He don't realize how many people have lost their jobs. How many insurance
Companies have closed up shop due to his new laws.
Funny, SC, I believe, ended up socializing the no-insurance penalty. So in the fight against socialized healthcare, we end up getting socialized healthcare. LOL.I'm just blessed my wife high up the ladder and she is helping set up these
Exchanges that are required by federal government now. I think GA should do what SC did
And make it against the law to follow Obama care.
Obamas response:
“I’ve said that the Canadian model works for Canada,” he said. “It would not work for the United States, in part simply because we’ve evolved differently,” he said. “So, we’ve got to develop a uniquely American approach to this problem.”
When I used to build houses with my dad, whether we were building small single family homes, additions, or million dollar mansions, the framework was the same, and they all had concrete foundations.
And I'm gonna need more than a conservative think tank report on universal healthcare in Canada. Surely, for accuracies sake, it was peer reviewed.
Its not solely Obamas fault, but he signed it into law and continues to lie about what its doing . premiums are rising and people are being laid off or having their hours cut over it. Those are the facts.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Pretty sure no one drafted or signed a law that said businesses should lay off people or cut their hours, but I haven't read EVERY bill. LOL.
That think tank is ranked #1 out of 97 in Canada, and is recognized by Forbes as libertarian. In fact, they receive donations from Koch Industries (US Democratic party affiliated Koch). Conservatives like to call the Fraser Institute "liberal", and Liberals like to call it "conservative". You dismiss it because you don't like the facts that they report.
"In 2011, the Fraser Institute was ranked No. 1 among 97 think-tanks in Canada, for the fourth year in a row, in the University of Pennsylvania's Global Go-To Think-Tank Index, a global survey of more than 1,500 scholars, policy makers, and journalists. The report also named the Fraser Institute as the only Canadian organization in the Top 30 leading think-tanks in the world in 2011, out of a global group of 6,545 think-tanks."
You believe that you know more about the Canadian healthcare system than the collective at the top Canadian think tank? You really believe that you are open-minded and educated? You are out of touch with reality and intellectuals.
You believe that there is only one way to build a house? You must not know how they build them out of other materials like poured concrete then.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
You believe that there are no repercussions when bills are passed? Here's a revelation for you - money doesn't grow on trees and doesn't appear out of thin air.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Thats pretty much all I needed to know right there. This isn't a biased study at all. LMAO.
Havent dismissed it at all. I'm just saying, if its accurate, and if its worth its weight in salt, then its been peer reviewed, that means that there are other studies out there that say the same thing, ones that aren't so influenced by lobbyists.You dismiss it because you don't like the facts that they report.
How certain are you of what I know? And my knowledge of the Canadian healthcare system isn't in question anyway and has nothing to do with anything. So, nice ad hominem. Lol.You believe that you know more about the Canadian healthcare system than the collective at the top Canadian think tank? You really believe that you are open-minded and educated? You are out of touch with reality and intellectuals.
I guess now you're going to tell me, someone who's father has been a professional contractor longer than you've been alive, how houses are built?You believe that there is only one way to build a house? You must not know how they build them out of other materials like poured concrete then.
I'm all ears. LMAO.
Koch didn't fund that particular study. I just mentioned them to show you that they are not conservative as you claimed. You really have no clue and are just trying to deny facts.
You don't seem to understand how peer reviews are used. You just throw out terms without the knowledge of how they are used in reality.
You are quick to dismiss the top Canadian think tank and you put forth your own opinions, yet you think that your knowledge shouldn't be questioned?
Like I said, if you think that all houses are built the same way, you have a very limited amount of knowledge. In this area, we generally see a foundation and frame, based upon out building codes. That is not the same everywhere. You apparently are not aware that there are many home built using poured concrete using aluminum forms, and that the largest source for these forms in the US happens to be in Chamblee. In Miami, the building codes are very different from here, and they do more CBS construction. Ask your father about it.
You're not as intelligent as you think you are.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Koch-funded think-tank not as conservative as I claimed huh? LOL. That's got to be the funniest thing you've ever posted. I literally got a guttural chuckle from that.
Lets go ahead and headshot this one before I go to lunch...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_Industries
"Koch Industries has spent more than $50 million to lobby in Washington between 2006 and October 2011, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.[38]
The company has opposed the regulation of financial derivatives and limits on greenhouse gases.[38] It sponsors free market foundations and causes.[52][53]"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polit..._Koch_brothers
"The Koch brothers contribute a large amount of money to conservative, libertarian, and free-market individuals and organizations.[1] They have given more than $196 million to dozens of free-market and advocacy organizations.[1] Tax records indicate that, in 2008, the three main Koch family foundations contributed to 34 political and policy organizations, three of which they founded, and several of which they direct.[1][2]"
I fully understand how peer reviews are used.You don't seem to understand how peer reviews are used. You just throw out terms without the knowledge of how they are used in reality.
What opinion?You are quick to dismiss the top Canadian think tank and you put forth your own opinions, yet you think that your knowledge shouldn't be questioned?
I know exactly how houses are built. You don't have to worry about that, and its safe for you to assume I know A LOT more about architecture than you. LOL.Like I said, if you think that all houses are built the same way, you have a very limited amount of knowledge. In this area, we generally see a foundation and frame, based upon out building codes. That is not the same everywhere. You apparently are not aware that there are many home built using poured concrete using aluminum forms, and that the largest source for these forms in the US happens to be in Chamblee. In Miami, the building codes are very different from here, and they do more CBS construction. Ask your father about it.
You're not as intelligent as you think you are.
Despite the warnings, the outrage over the bill and what it would do, Congress and the Prez didnt listen.
Now , its happening and you want to whine about it. Its their jobs to cut, not yours, or the GOVT. Contrary to popular belief the president IS RESPONSIBLE for the Economy.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
I kinda laugh when you start talking about scientific research and peer reviews, yet when i spent 4 pages on sound economic science and charts and motives you dismissed it all because its not your opinion.
Increasingly i think you A) like to troll B) have no real way to argue your point C) refuse to see anyone elses point of view.
I like you , but arguing with you is becoming like beating a head against a wall and less and less entertaining
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Koch Industries is one of many small donators to Fraser, and liberals even say it is a tiny amount:Koch-funded think-tank not as conservative as I claimed huh? LOL. That's got to be the funniest thing you've ever posted. I literally got a guttural chuckle from that.
Lets go ahead and headshot this one before I go to lunch...
Koch Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Koch Industries has spent more than $50 million to lobby in Washington between 2006 and October 2011, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.[38]
The company has opposed the regulation of financial derivatives and limits on greenhouse gases.[38] It sponsors free market foundations and causes.[52][53]"
Political activities of the Koch brothers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Koch brothers contribute a large amount of money to conservative, libertarian, and free-market individuals and organizations.[1] They have given more than $196 million to dozens of free-market and advocacy organizations.[1] Tax records indicate that, in 2008, the three main Koch family foundations contributed to 34 political and policy organizations, three of which they founded, and several of which they direct.[1][2]"
I fully understand how peer reviews are used.
What opinion?
I know exactly how houses are built. You don't have to worry about that, and its safe for you to assume I know A LOT more about architecture than you. LOL.
Sunshine Listing the Fraser Institute | Ottawa Citizen
You want to dismiss a factual report on the Canadian healthcare system from the top Canadian think tank due to them taking a donation from a business that you don't like, and you think you are educated? LOL
How often do you participate in peer reviews? Do you do them before or after you publish your documentation/public report?
If you knew about them, you wouldn't have made your earlier comment.
Are you claiming now that you have no opinion, and that you have not repeatedly shared it on this board?
You always claim that you know more than me about everything, but we have already seen that your statement is false in every other category, so why would we believe you now?
You have no idea what I know about architecture, residential or commercial construction, or any other subject. Your ignorant statement that "you know more" is baseless, and shows your true level of intelligence.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
I disagree. The President does not have the power, and thus, does not have the responsibility, to control the economy. We do not want him to either.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
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